I think they learned their lesson in 2017. They will likely sell to "accredited investors" through the OTC market.

I agree and would say that's a strong possibility as we already see staking today taking place on the exchanges. With the price of ETH high not many people have the ability to solo stake. It seems centralized to me and open to government influence. But I have thought that since I sold most of my ETH at $50 



Many with 5GB memory chips will stay with ETH until the end because it is the most profitable coin to mine. Few miners would leave 41% higher returns on the table, unless forced to do so as happened with the recent DAG increase. Many have sunk thousands into mining hardware and will seek ROI, which now takes years ...


It ain't just GPU miners on Ethereum. They have purpose built ASICs going from $1000 to $30000. This one is $27k: https://ipollo.com/products/ipollo-v/


But can't feel too bad as they make the choice to buy it. Mining is full of overpriced equipment and unexperienced people do not know to take into account difficulty increase. But people with this equipment will seek ROI and really only have ETC as an alternative. This will move up hash rate by force instead of it following price. It will be tricky for miners and could end up being another Dash situation (where you need to pay $0.01 per kW/h to make $0.10 per day with the best equipment).


That makes me think that both are driven by community and actually decent because  they are not a scam. Many of the ERC series tokens are designed to make a dev team or individual wealthy. DOGE had massive returns and became a meme coin after being "dead" for 8 years or more. I wonder if the same could happen with ETC.

My biggest issue with ETC was when the 51% attack occurred. But that seems less likely now. And looking at the ECIP (Ethereum Classic Improvement Proposals) list, there seems to actually be a lot of devs working on the core software: https://ecips.ethereumclassic.org/core. But there aren't the front end developments like DeFi and such.

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It seems to have some strong fundamental potential for attention and price rise. Instead of buying and ERC20 token, paying $70 to "bridge" to a new network via an unknown and unregulated third party website, like zapper.fi, it seems like a path of lower resistance to use the same programming language on the other Virtual Ethereum Machine. It'd certainly be easier for those less technically inclined. And it has the scarcity component of only 210,700,000 to exist, instead of ETH with a max supply of ∞

It has already experienced a 51% attack when the hash power was at it's lowest. I think they rewrote something like 100 new blocks.  


I don't think Ethereum Classic is as centralized as ETH, but not sure. DOGE is merge mined with LTC because Jackson Palmer was the creator and only dev of the project. He wanted to quit and not compete. Cool to get both if you mine, but I don't think the community would move together. People are paying $1000 for miners that make $5 per day; they will want their ETCHASH investment back.

I mined a few ETC back in the day and have always thought it could be a simple alternative to Ethereum's high fees, but there doesn't seem to be much development on it. And I hear some of the devs who were involved in the Segwit2x scheme use it as a sandbox. When I add it to MetaMask, the price doesn't show up. I don't know much about it, except it's the original chain after some hack.

It seems like a low price and low development. But with the merger, the ETH miners are going to move to ETC. This will give it more hashpower and protect it from double spend 51% attacks that have happened in the past. It's an interesting token for me and could be a fertile playground for the next bull market or a dumpster fire like BCH. I am curious what others think of Ethereum Classic. I don't hear it talked about much, anymore.

Thanks. I was trying to avoid losing control of my keys and have third-party risk. 

It looks like Exodus mobile wallet makes it really easy to move funds to and from Lightning via the Wallet of Satoshi.

I am trying to pay for my Internet bill in El Salvador on https://sv.mipagoclaro.com/#/.

The problem is they only accept Lightning. I control my keys and have not been able to set up a Lightning node through the Core client.

I believe my options to be:
      1. Setup a Lightning node and add liquidity, connect with others
      2. Install a 3rd party program, but which one allows me to control my keys?
      3. Pay someone I know in Bitcoin to their Chivo wallet and have her pay for me
      4. Use the SWIFT network

or


Is there a way I can convert the BTC Pay Lightning invoice to regular Bitcoin, so I can just send the payment with fiddling around or giving my keys to someone else?

Thank you.

Interesting thought. And, yes, I believe one day this could be an issue - mostly where the more powerful governments try to take the Bitcoin from smaller governments.

I was thinking about this as I tried to pay my Internet bill in El Salvador with the provider Claro.

They would not accept my Bitcoin and only accept Lightning, which is very frustrating.

But from a technical standpoint, you can see there are only 3 channels connecting to all of El Salvador (which has $BTC has legal tender).



I know there has been war over this ... and points on both sides, but aside from being inconvient to not be able to pay with BTC (without setting up LN), do you think having such limited number of channels to an entire nation state would make this more or less of a problem for El Salvador in particular?

Bitcoin Cash was cool for a minute. But it became less cool when they kept hard-forking. Anybody else feel this way?   

Thanks.  I ended up running the monerovd.exe file as administrator and it solved the problem.

I'm having the same issue.  I believe it's Windows Defender, but have already added the entire build folder into the exclusion list.  I had it working for a brief time last night and it suddenly went back to the start screen.  Since then the Daemon won't start. 

Any ideas?

PS.  This looks like a really rad project and I hope the dev team grows.  Maybe they can use some of the dev team funding to work on getting a vendor to accept it. 

How much per S9 and L3+ per month ...?

Indeed.  I've been looking at mineral oil, but it has a lot of up front expenses. If done right, and at scale, it could provide an edge by consuming about half the electricity.  Though I see the next big area of profit being a big jump in hashpower.  If somebody would make a 50 TH/s miner, that'd surely be profitable for a while.  However, I'm not sure I see that playing out due to high up front costs.


But only other people's gear ... at least that's how I feel. 


Insane, but true. 


We have entered a new era. There were a lot of early promises over the past couple years, from banking the unbanked to overturning the entire power structure.  It's going to take a time and nobody knows how it will develop.  All we know is that before government decree for money, it was commodities like stones, shells, metals.

I, also, know that I've used crypto for many payments and the highest points of friction have been exchange between USD. 



Do you know anybody with experience running a BTM business?  I'm exploring starting one in El Salvador.

It did not include input costs, though that's the only place where one is able to get a competitive edge.

That makes it easier.

If you took the block rewards off blockchain.info, then it would include the value at time of production.  

 
Thanks for mining the data  

Thanks. That looks close to what I've seen.  

I'm working on plans to host miners and I've been thinking about either charging $50 per month, plus 8.4c kW/h for energy or $100 per month in mineral oil. It's the same price, but one is greener.  I don't know if people would like their chips in a bath, though.

Are people even expanding their machine base these days?

It looks like it has a static price value for BTC, but that skews it because the electric bill is due monthly

Woah!  

I guess it's a case for greater energy efficiency with things like mineral oil.


How long did that last?  Mining at a loss?  

I just turned off one of my stupid D3s.

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(Moderator's note: This post was edited by frodocooper to trim the quote from Bucc5207.)

... and, unfortunately, all those who bought GPUs as a hedge because "you can always resell them to gamers if the market goes to shit" will flood the market beyond saturation for gaming.

It seems to be more profitable for the mining manufacturers to add new algos than faster BTC miners.   

In my mind, there are some new questions:

Is this what adoption looks like?
Is Bitcoin going to replace the USD?
Is crypto simply a digital asset or will it reform money?

It takes forever to download ...