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2081  Economy / Economics / Re: What is your best investment strategy? on: January 11, 2017, 06:02:52 PM
Buy low, sell high (not day trading obv.)
And then I look at the alternate cryptocurrencies section to see what Altoin may or may not get pumped next, and decide if I want to risk or not.

That is a quite simple, easy and working strategy for trading i guess, even day traders follow that thing, they buy coins and wait at the end of the day to see if the price increases or not, and then they sell them if the price increases and if it doesn't then they may hold them for the next day.
This is actually the best strategy for earning more bitcoins.

That's called gambling, not investing. It's just speculation. You're buying an asset and hoping it will go up without any real indication that it will. "Buy low sell high" is generic, worthless advice. It's like going to a gambling casino and saying "the key to profiting at blackjack is drawing a 21." It's worthless, self-evident advice. Knowing what you have to do to profit is not the same as having the ability to do it. In either case, your ability to "win" is completely outside of your control. That's why it's not investing.
2082  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin or gold? on: January 11, 2017, 05:58:28 PM
Volatility can be a major concern with Bitcoin. Look at the exchange rates during the past 24-hours. In BTC-e, it hit $880 after going up to $1,100. Volatility of almost 20% in a single day. With gold, the maximum volatility is in the range of 2-3%.
Just to remember you that the 1100 dollars has been achieved after 8-10 days when the pump at bitcoin started at December, soo it hadnt been into on single day, the loss happened into some hours, but the recovery will take weeks or months till we get back the 4 digit once again. I will always choose bitcoin, since it has huge potencial something i doubt gold has, gold has achieved full potencial as i know on the last years, and now its a manipulated asset.

Judging by the 30% drop bitcoin has experienced in the last 10 days, do you think bitcoin is more stable? Or perhaps more resistant to manipulation? The truth is that neither gold nor bitcoin is suitable as an investment for people looking for stability. Both are volatile and swing wildly, but bitcoin is amped to that end. Gold is volatile, but tends to be more muted in its swings. I think we'll continue to see bitcoin pare back now. This is not the bottom of the fall.
2083  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin's Next Direction 2017 Predictions on: January 11, 2017, 05:51:48 PM
Hello,

After successfully predicting BTC moves in 2016 here on the forum, I have a new set of 2017 predictions that I'm using to trade the current move.

1. Rise to $1,200-$1,300 (Current move)
2. Correction to $800-$900 level and range trading for a while
3. Rise to $1,500
4. Correction to $900-$1,000 and range trading for a while
5. Continued rise to $2,000 by end of year

tldr; BTC will double this year after making a couple of moves up and down.

Setting aside that your 2016 predictions weren't that accurate (50% accuracy is a coin flip), you provide nothing to back up your predictions, and currently aren't doing so well one week into 2017. Are you just shooting in the dark or do you have anything to base your predictions on other than whim? Because it seems more likely that we're in another deflating bubble period, as opposed to an environment that can sustain the momentum that ended 2016. This is a repeat of 2013.
2084  Economy / Economics / Re: WILL BITCOIN BE USED BY ALMOST EVERYONE IN 2022? on: January 11, 2017, 01:50:34 AM
If Bitcoin could solve the volatility issue, it might gain more traction as a currency. People just use it to speculate (gamble) right now because it's so volatile. It's not useful as a currency when it swings wildly in value because the essential function of a currency is to maintain value. Bitcoin has never done this for any meaningful stretch in its short life.

I believe over time the volatility is supposed to decrease due to the nature of the ever decreasing reward from mining. I think it's a good thing though. At the beginning of the currency it's volatile and attracts a lot of attention, then over time - even if "over time" may be years or decades - it becomes less volatile and more accepted world wide.

I wouldn't expect volatility to be impacted much by the falling origination rewards. It's volatile because of speculative traders, not miners. Further, by the time the rewards fall low enough, mining fees will increase substantially to offset the lost income for miners, and that will make transactions too costly for many people. At that point, Bitcoin will have other problems.
2085  Economy / Economics / Re: Invest your bitcoins. on: January 08, 2017, 07:17:29 PM
Investing bitcoins are my favourite hobby. I always invest bitcoin on forex trading, altcoins trading.
it helps me get more earning than anything else. Moreover , investing bitcoins is buying and holding bitcoins when it's down.


Me either , I like investing more with alt coins. I have an interest with forex trading but as of now I can't manage to invest for so many things. That's why I just focus myself as of now with investing to alt coins. And before buying an alt coin, I conduct a research and as well as looking at its road map if that coin has plans to keep on developing and innovating itself.
With altcoins, it is tantamount to gambling, it's either you earn big profits if you are lucky enough with your coins will pump and you could lose also if you chooses a shit coins.

Is it really so different for Bitcoin? There's nothing fundamentally different about what gives Bitcoin value than an altcoin except the number of people involved in propping up the value. The motive to buy is exactly the same: volatility provides profit opportunity. But no one is buying and hoping it just retains value, which would make it useful as a currency, people buy and hope for the moon.
2086  Economy / Economics / Re: USD vs BTC on: January 08, 2017, 06:55:55 PM
Whether USD, bitcoin, gold, or any other currency or commodity, the thing that gives it value is the confidence that it will be considered valuable by many other people. In this respect, whether you use the USD or bitcoin, the value merely comes down to a confidence game. The USD has value because so many people believe that it does. Similarly, bitcoins have value because there are enough people who believe that they are valuable for them to retain that value. If something catastrophic were to happen to either the USD or btc to cause large numbers of people to lose confidence that those instruments would be considered valuable in the future by large numbers of people, you would see the value of them decline. It all comes back to confidence.

Gold has intrinsic value just like any other commodity that can be used directly, so these are out of your "confidence game". With dollars you pay taxes, and as long as the government can make you feel the pain in the ass for not paying them, it is also not about trust. It looks like only Bitcoin has nothing behind it but trust alone.

Gold's "intrinsic" value is based on historical longevity. There's nothing special about it other than superstition. It can suffer a loss of confidence the same as any other asset. All fiat also is only based on confidence. Hyperinflation is a direct result of a lack of trust in the currency, often because governments print it into obsolescence.
2087  Economy / Economics / Re: Big Crash coming on: January 08, 2017, 06:39:58 PM
Yeah I doubt that. Why? What would trigger a crash in 2016? People claim there's gonna be a crash every year.

Yeah I'm skeptical about this overly dramatic doomsday crash as well, but I did read about there being a similar crash (2008/09 housing) related to car financing coming up, probably not as intense. We'll see though. I think the ETF things the Winklevoss are trying to spearhead will have a large affect on bitcoin price this year though.

2008/2009 crash is caused by subprime mortgage.

Exactly, It was caused by allowing americans to take out mortgages (on homes) they really couldn't afford if interest rates went up. The lenders of those mortgages bundled them into securities and sold to large investment banks and insurance providers. Rates went up, and a ripple effect of defaults occured... What I'm saying is apparently there's a similar thing going on with car loans that americans can't really afford

I don't think that car loans and defaults due to inability to pay them will have any dramatic effect on the markets as it happened in 2008 when the Fed had to bail out major banks considered too big to fail and start a series of quantitative easings after that. Cars are much cheaper than houses overall. Really, how many cars do you know that cost half a million dollars or more? Further, cars are not as endurable and lasting as houses so banks giving such loans should have taken into account this...

And last but not least, it is easier to sequester a car than a house, especially if you and your family live there (small children and such things)

Taking control of the underlying asset wasn't the problem, it was all the leveraged derivatives placed on top the underlying initial asset that were rolled into complex and illiquid investment vehicles so that when defaults happened, the losses were 1) amplified by the leverage and 2) frozen because they were illiquid. Those two factors caused the entire financial sector to seize up, and without access to capital, large firms started failing in what would have been a domino effect without government intervention. So the fact that cars are easier to repossess than houses doesn't alleviate the problem if those two conditions are not addressed.

What's the purpose in taking control over something which immediately starts losing its value on the first use? I guess the expenses might heavily outweigh the potential proceeds from selling these cars. In fact, I heard and read a lot about subprime mortgage crisis in the US (I remember that I even watched some movie about that, was it Billions?), but it was only yesterday that I read here about car loans that could potentially cause a similar financial crisis. How likely is that? How likely that those two conditions you refer to are ever to emerge in the first place?

As to me, it looks more like a storm in a tea-cup (or something like once bitten, twice shy)

By "sequester," I thought you meant repossess. If that's not the case, that point isn't relevant.

The same two conditions do exist for subprime car loans, that's the point in drawing the analogy. Nothing has changed with the process, it's just a new risky security at the heart of it: subprime auto loans. The auto loans still have levered derivatives built on top of them, and the loans and the derivatives are both rolled into convoluted investment vehicles that are layered and complex to the point of reducing liquidity. When the investments are that layered, you can't dispose of the toxic parts easily, which was the problem with the housing crisis. Loans were defaulting, but it was impossible to know who owned them or how they impacted the overall vehicles they were rolled into, so everyone stopped all transactions involving them. Same thing with the auto loans now, the point is that it doesn't take a very large portion of the original loans to default to cause large problems because the effects are amplified by the leverage and the low liquidity.

But you also may be on to something in that there is a level of hype due to how bad it was last time. There's really no way to know which until something goes horribly wrong or doesn't.
2088  Economy / Economics / Re: Big Crash coming on: January 08, 2017, 02:10:00 PM
Yeah I doubt that. Why? What would trigger a crash in 2016? People claim there's gonna be a crash every year.

Yeah I'm skeptical about this overly dramatic doomsday crash as well, but I did read about there being a similar crash (2008/09 housing) related to car financing coming up, probably not as intense. We'll see though. I think the ETF things the Winklevoss are trying to spearhead will have a large affect on bitcoin price this year though.

2008/2009 crash is caused by subprime mortgage.

Exactly, It was caused by allowing americans to take out mortgages (on homes) they really couldn't afford if interest rates went up. The lenders of those mortgages bundled them into securities and sold to large investment banks and insurance providers. Rates went up, and a ripple effect of defaults occured... What I'm saying is apparently there's a similar thing going on with car loans that americans can't really afford

I don't think that car loans and defaults due to inability to pay them will have any dramatic effect on the markets as it happened in 2008 when the Fed had to bail out major banks considered too big to fail and start a series of quantitative easings after that. Cars are much cheaper than houses overall. Really, how many cars do you know that cost half a million dollars or more? Further, cars are not as endurable and lasting as houses so banks giving such loans should have taken into account this...

And last but not least, it is easier to sequester a car than a house, especially if you and your family live there (small children and such things)

Taking control of the underlying asset wasn't the problem, it was all the leveraged derivatives placed on top the underlying initial asset that were rolled into complex and illiquid investment vehicles so that when defaults happened, the losses were 1) amplified by the leverage and 2) frozen because they were illiquid. Those two factors caused the entire financial sector to seize up, and without access to capital, large firms started failing in what would have been a domino effect without government intervention. So the fact that cars are easier to repossess than houses doesn't alleviate the problem if those two conditions are not addressed.
2089  Economy / Economics / Re: Let's Be Honest. We Are Waiting for $100/BTC to buy on: January 08, 2017, 02:05:00 PM
Of course we are all waiting or will be really glad when bitcoin's price drops to 100$. If that would happen many people will panic buy and hoard it to sell it to higher price. But large whales would not let that happen. It is like trading where you always miss the right time to buy because you are having doubts to it. You will regret once you saw it is already in a high price and blaming yourself for not buying while its cheap.

I dont think i will be glad, if bitcoin drop that low its mean something wrong with bitcoin, nobody is spending bitcoin anymore, it can caused bitcoin to become no value anymore, i prefer bitcoin to stay in 700$ in a stable condition

When bitcoin fell from $1200 to $200 over the course of a few years, was there something wrong with it? It essentially was unchanged, the only thing that changed was everyone's perception of it. There was nothing "wrong" with bitcoin, it was just a case of the bubble popping. I'm not unconvinced that the current $950 price level isn't another bubble, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the price collapse again. (Hoping not, but wouldn't be surprised still if it did.) That wouldn't necessarily signal anything is wrong with bitcoin if the price crashed again, it would just indicate that everyone once again got carried away with their expectations for the currency and its value.
You cannot compare the events when bitcoin fell from $1200 to $200 because it was definitly a bubble and the liquidity during that time to hold the price from falling was really low and now things have changed and more people are using bitcoin and more people are investing in this and so the price to drop down like that is really impossible at the moment.

More people are using it to gamble by speculating on it, or using it as a medium to gamble to get around country controls, but that isn't using it as a currency. It dropped 20% in a day after it reached $1100 again, and anything that drops that far that fast suggests we were in bubble territory. And we probably still are. Large traders are just milking the bounces right now for all they can, but I would not be surprised if it continues a clunky decline over the next month. Disappointed, but it surprised.
2090  Economy / Economics / Re: WILL BITCOIN BE USED BY ALMOST EVERYONE IN 2022? on: January 08, 2017, 02:01:18 PM
If Bitcoin could solve the volatility issue, it might gain more traction as a currency. People just use it to speculate (gamble) right now because it's so volatile. It's not useful as a currency when it swings wildly in value because the essential function of a currency is to maintain value. Bitcoin has never done this for any meaningful stretch in its short life.
2091  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin to be international currency on: January 08, 2017, 01:59:18 PM
If bitcoin to be international currency, what do you think?
You can use it every where and anywhere, without exchange it.
And how to use transaction with it, if bitcoin just crypto currency?
How many people like with this thread?
If it becomes international currency I suppose it will hit 1000$ price and for sure maybe this forum becomes much more popular. LOL.
Bitcoin reached $1000 a few days ago, but did not become an international currency, there are still many countries do not recognize, such as the United Kingdom, Columbia. I think bitcoin is still a few years away from the international currency, maybe 5 to 10 years

The thing preventing Bitcoin from being an international currency isn't recognition, but volatility. It can't maintain a stable value, which is absolutely critical of any currency. Look what happened when it hit $1100 most recently: it dropped 20% in a day and then has been extremely wild since. People aren't using it as a currency right now so much as a speculation vehicle. For as long as that continues, it will never be a "currency."
2092  Economy / Economics / Re: The future of the paper money on: January 08, 2017, 01:56:23 PM
Governments also prefer digital money over paper, because it's very easy to track transactions. Cash is the main form of money for black market right now, and it's also used for tax evasions and other illegal activities. So, I think people will be reaching towards crypto currencies as governments push people away frosh cash.
although the government would prefer the digital money in the future. but they will not leave the fiat. maybe they will make another version of the fiat that is digital form

They already have. All digital transactions are based in digital fiat. Any bill you pay online, any transfer between bank accounts, any time you use a credit or debit card, all these transactions are digital fiat. The government doesn't have to do anything "new" to create it, it already exists and t is already the bulk of transactions in western economies. Bitcoin is not going to replace that.
2093  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin can not replace fiat on: January 08, 2017, 01:52:50 PM
It is quite likely that digital currency replaces physical fiat, but his does not necessarily mean Bitcoin. It is more likely to be digital fiat. Western economies already deal more with digital fiat than physical fiat; it's a trend that has been increasing for 20 years already. Physical fiat probably doesn't go away, it will always have a place, but will be very small in comparison to digital transactions using fiat.
2094  Economy / Economics / Re: Big Crash coming on: January 06, 2017, 11:42:34 PM
Yes we can expect a huge crash very soon because I think we did it too fast, the price has raised to fast so it will fall most likely.
bitcoin is just reduced 100$ from 1160 to 960$ . so the crash and again Increase is just a usual thing. I don't think we'll see any big crash which can be a disaster for bitcoin. bitcoin can get dumped to 700$ but I don't think it will go lower than that.

You are wrong, bitcoin can drop its price up to 300$ this year. China this september of 2017 will start its release of their fiat digital currency in their country. This will possibly trigger a huge dump by Chinese people. This is just a possibility but there is a huge possibility that it will happen. But let us not give up our hope in bitcoin when we do then bitcoin will actually suffer a big loss.

A Chinese digital currency wouldn't cause a btc price crash because people in China don't buy Bitcoin to use as a digital currency. They use it to get around capital controls imposed by the state and transfer money out of the country. Since a Chinese digital currency wouldn't address either of these uses, there's no reason to expect it to have a direct impact on the price of btc.
2095  Economy / Economics / Re: Passive Income on: January 06, 2017, 11:38:51 PM
I get passive income from rent heavy equipment, I have 3 units loaders and 5 units forklift, I rented out to several factories located close to where I live. Every month I get enough income and I not job. Everyday I just visiting heavy equipment that I rented out, buying spare parts for maintenance, and make sure everything no problem.


Then it's not total passive income.. it still requires supervision of the machinery, seeing that everything is working so you don't rent something that is damaged or not fully functions which would lead to big problems with renters etc... I think the only real passive income i can think off is renting parking spots. You have a parking spot and you rent it so someone so he can park his car... that's about it. It doesn't require any maintenance, it's just a space made of asphalt and that's all.
Other than that, I can't think of true passive income.

Stock ownership provides passive income if the stock pays a dividend. Savings accounts are also passive income, though inflation is likely to outpace the rate of return there, so you would see a nominal gain and a purchase power loss.
2096  Economy / Micro Earnings / Re: FreeBitco.in - Win free Bitcoins every hour! on: January 06, 2017, 11:35:31 PM
Hey wetsuit, any update or news on the touted announcement from awhile back? It's been a couple weeks since I asked last time. Figured I'd ask again since I haven't heard anything since then. No judgement, just excited for what it might be.
2097  Economy / Gambling / Re: ◥◤ NitrogenSports ◢ Largest & Most Trusted BTC Sportsbook ◣ NFL Parlay Sunday ◥◤ on: January 06, 2017, 05:38:02 PM
Not that Nitro cares, but I recently won 6.67 btc in some sports betting after being down. So I went on DICE just to roll a few times and do a test of their algo's too. So i tested prior to my win with some super small amounts and the %'s of winning seemed to be right for what I had it set to. So as a test I decided to try big values and look at the instant behavior change lol. They claim provably fair on dice but I think something fishy occurred and they have background code that checks the btc values and forces losses more frequently.

Take a look and heed this warning users of Nitro, do not use their DICE feature:


Rolling with low values system behavior:

https://postimg.org/image/l8uwifv3d/ ,

Vs rolling with high value system behavior(close enough to the same win % chance rates):

https://postimg.org/image/blgu1a2mn/ ,

tested it pretty well but did not feel like burning any more precious btc into it.

I talked with others in the nitro chat and many said they found similar behavior where low values tended to win more frequently than attempting big coin rolls.

I may have gotten my 6.67 btc ripped from me but you don't have to! Play only sports where you know 100% whats going on in the background because I don't trust Nitro anymore.

Thanks,
satoshiBoss[65582]

That's all anecdotal evidence. You don't have near enough data to conclude it's rigged. You would need to show uncharacteristic losses over thousands of bets, not a handful. Variance is far too high with small data sets to conclude anything.
2098  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin or gold? on: January 06, 2017, 05:33:42 PM
i think bitcoin more beneficial than gold because bitcoin increasing its price quickly than gold.
i agree with you and you are right that bitcoin is much more beneficial than gold, because bitcoin increasing its price too much faster and you can hold your bitcoin for high price for short time and gold price move to up very much slowly so bitcoin is better than gold.
which makes different bitcoin with gold is because bitcoin prices more volatile or fluctuating, it makes bitcoin is more profitable in the near future, in contrast to the price of gold whose price tends to be stable

Gold is at from stable. There is plenty of volatility in gold prices. Compared to Bitcoin it may look more stable, but any gold chart of sufficient length will give you enough data to see that gold suffers from volatility in the short run.
2099  Economy / Gambling / Re: bustabit.com -- The Social Gambling Game on: January 06, 2017, 02:49:49 AM
I'm wondering if you notice any impact on site play when there are wild swings in bitcoin's price? It's been steadily appreciating since early 2016 up to over $1100 yesterday, then suffered a 20ish percent drop in a few hours before swinging wildly in the 900s. Is the gambling seem pretty steady through all this, or do you see less (or maybe more) when there are wild swings in price?
2100  Economy / Micro Earnings / Re: FreeBitco.in - Win free Bitcoins every hour! on: January 02, 2017, 11:08:19 PM
I've hit some decent doge winnings. The only problem with it is that I don't cash out very often. I just let it accumulate so that it feels like something meaningful by the time I withdraw. In the amount of time that it takes to reach that point, doge depreciates a fair amount so that what I withdraw is always much smaller (btc- and USD-wise) than what it was when I won it. But converting doge to btc every week is overly tiresome. First world problems and all...
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