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2121  Other / Off-topic / Re: Distributed Computing; What if? on: January 22, 2012, 05:47:18 AM
Bitcoin block verification has very specific requirements which are probably impossible to achieve by using an external computing project of the type you mention. See also this StackExchange question.

The most important requirement is that the work is generated in a deterministic computational way from a piece of data, so that any change to the data would render the proof of work useless. Otherwise the work has no use whatsoever for verifying a block of transactions in a tamper-proof way. This is incompatible with most projects, which generate problems based on their real-world usefulness in an ad-hoc way.

It's interesting to note that if the external project is itself based on calculating hashes, there's some room for assisting it. That's basically what merged mining Namecoin is - using Bitcoin mining computations to help with an unrelated project. I expect that in the future Bitcoin mining will be merged with many other projects.

I'm just temporarily in awe at the magnitude of machines people could use to tackle large problems instead of supporting the bitcoin network
Larger problems than providing the world with a decentralized digital currency?
2122  Economy / Economics / Re: How to estimate the value of a currency? on: January 22, 2012, 05:36:03 AM
What are your estimations of the true value of 1BTC (i.e. its value now, without speculating about the future)?
This is usually referred to as the "fundamental value". It is established by an intricate interplay between various market forces, but in brief it would be equal to the value each bitcoin needs to have in order to facilitate the level of commerce being done with Bitcoin. For example, let's say the majority of BTC use is in the cycle you mentioned. There are (made up numbers) 10,000 people buying $1000 worth of goods with BTC each month, and to reduce the hassle of buying BTC they buy that amount every month. So everyone will carry on average $500 worth of BTC, for a total of $5M for everyone. This means the total worth of all BTC must be $5M, and if there are 8M coins each one will be valued at $0.625. If the exchange rate dropped below that, people would need to buy more BTC to satisfy their shopping needs, and the added buying pressure would drive the price back to the equilibrium value.

The more people use Bitcoin, and the more goods and services offered for them, the more commerce done in BTC and hence the higher its fundamental value.

You are correct that currently the rate is mostly determined by speculative forces. Here too the dynamics are complex, but if 10,000 people are each willing to risk $5000 on their belief that the price will appreciate, there will need to be $50M worth of bitcoins, giving a rate of $6.25 per bitcoin.

The closer Bitcoin gets to fulfilling its potential, the more significant the fundamental portion will be of the total price.

today we're mining at less than $1.00 in total cost (time, electricity, rent, depreciation, maintenance, etc).
Mining has a very low barrier of entry, so this is impossible - if there was that much profit to be had, more people would mine and the difficulty would adjust. The price of a bitcoin is necessarily very close to the total cost of mining, all things included - including the risk that any capital expenditure will greatly lose value due to future changes in the relevant parameters, and the limited availability of opportunities to mine at low electricity rate and efficient hardware.
2123  Economy / Long-term offers / Re: Savings Account, 1% weekly (full for now) on: January 21, 2012, 09:44:31 PM
Mathematically, you are correct.  Psychologically, people are more comfortable when they can see 75% of their deposit at any time.  Also, I was hoping to allow more people to participate, but someone grabbed up all my space already  Smiley.
Yes, when there are multiple lenders, a reserve is crucial for being able to allow withdrawals in a timely manner. I'm tempted to model this as a Poisson process, but the independence assumption is too strong for such analysis to be useful.
2124  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Potential solutions for Escrow/Fraud issues on: January 21, 2012, 05:34:38 PM
After talking to a friend IRL about the two party escrow thing I realized there is nothing to stop the buyer from not releasing the money after the items arrive.

EX: I get items from seller, I'm already out my 100 bitcoins, and he's out 10 more, LOL!  I'm going to change my name and no one will never know that I'm a dick!

I think both sides would need a ~10% additional escrow to prevent all malicious fraud.  I think this is important especially for buyers as they will have far less reputation to verify and depend on compared to centralized merchants.
The reason I (and others) linked to past discussions is so that less time is spent reinventing the wheel. Take a look at this for example. Some more discussion occurred here.

It appears you overly complicated the idea and no one in that thread had a clue what you were talking about.
This is ridiculous. Of the 3 people who posted after me in that thread:
remmy (the op) understood what I said, up to some technical details.
iamzill probably didn't understand. His loss, my suggestion solves his suggested failure mode and I explicitly addressed it.
BitOffer presumably understood what I suggested, as he referenced it.

My "overly complicating the idea" was written in a way that makes it precise who gets what in which conditions. It was designed to solve the problems raised earlier in that thread - some of which you will probably only realize after some more chats with your IRL friend.
2125  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Send coins from specific address in wallet on: January 20, 2012, 01:46:05 PM
Mind if I ask why you think you want to do this?

I want to keep my private and my business chains separate.
Somebody I'm doing business with should not automatically know where I spend my money in my private time. Some thins are just private. (has nothing to do with illegal)
If you really want to keep them divided, you'd be better off running two nodes, or using a client that can handle multiple wallet files.
[...]

I don't want to have 2 nodes running.
Is there a client that allows multiple wallet files?
Armory, which is currently in pre-Alpha. Maybe others.
2126  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Potential solutions for Escrow/Fraud issues on: January 20, 2012, 12:49:16 PM
After talking to a friend IRL about the two party escrow thing I realized there is nothing to stop the buyer from not releasing the money after the items arrive.

EX: I get items from seller, I'm already out my 100 bitcoins, and he's out 10 more, LOL!  I'm going to change my name and no one will never know that I'm a dick!

I think both sides would need a ~10% additional escrow to prevent all malicious fraud.  I think this is important especially for buyers as they will have far less reputation to verify and depend on compared to centralized merchants.
The reason I (and others) linked to past discussions is so that less time is spent reinventing the wheel. Take a look at this for example. Some more discussion occurred here.
2127  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Bitcoil - Exchange bitcoins for ILS on: January 20, 2012, 12:45:17 PM
Question. I have a friend  that wants to use your exchange service.
He was scared off  when the price went crazy a few days ago ( up and down)
He is looking for some assurance that if he send you his money , that you wont
charge him some crazy rate that happens for a short period of time.
Is this possible?
It's tricky. There are some ways to do this properly but at this time they are either troublesome legally or too much of a hassle. What I can do is lock the rate when he informs me he sent the funds, even before I receive them, so he doesn't need to worry about future volatility if currently prices are stable (but only when I'm available, so he'll have to contact me about my availability).
2128  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Send coins from specific address in wallet on: January 19, 2012, 07:15:51 PM
The sensible thing to do in that case would be to keep two different wallet files, one for personal, and one for business.  You can use the -datadir parameter for the client to point it at a different folder for storing one or the other.  It takes a bit more disk space, but that's relatively cheap these days, and it's a lot less hassle than trying to keep it all separate manually.
That works, but of course the real solution is to use a client software which can handle multiple wallets conveniently, which I believe Armory does.
2129  Other / Meta / Re: How do we unsubscribe from a thread topic? on: January 19, 2012, 07:14:37 PM
Scroll to either the top or the bottom of the thread page.  You will see a link that says, "notify".  Click it to turn notifications on or off.
As was already explained, this link is for email notifications which are not what the question is about.
2130  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [488 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/DGM/Merged Mining/PayPal Payout/SMS/Yubikey/More on: January 19, 2012, 03:15:22 PM
Well Meni got to the answer before I did.  Yeah, any time we have a short round, your prop differential is going to go in a crazy direction, mostly due to luck.  I'm not sure there is really anything to be done about that (except remove the prop differential from individual blocks).
I should also mention that the main difference between PPLNS and DGM is that the variance is reduced by having the operator absorb some of it, which means he will gain money on short rounds and lose some on long rounds (which averages out to 0, before any pool fees). In EMC the absorption is very weak so you will likely not notice the effect, but in general this could contribute to a negative prop diff in short rounds (and to a positive diff in long rounds).

But again this can only explain about a 1% diff, the 193% you saw is due to good luck on your part in managing to find shares in that short time span.
2131  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: I might have the solution for making escrow in bitcoin easier on: January 19, 2012, 11:49:22 AM
This discussion is relevant.
2132  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Uploaded.to Accepts BTC As Payment (think Rapidshare, Megaupload) on: January 19, 2012, 11:37:59 AM
Old, topic but I have a question. Anyone knows similar site for file sharing, where you make money and get paid in Bitcoins? I've emailed uploaded.to few months ago, but they said they're not planning to pay in Bitcoins Sad
Maybe http://bitcoinservice.co.uk/ is what you're looking for.
2133  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [488 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/DGM/Merged Mining/PayPal Payout/SMS/Yubikey/More on: January 19, 2012, 08:22:44 AM
I'm still trying to wrap my head around DG scoring...  I'm doing very well at EMC, so I'm definitely not complaining.. Just trying to understand.

That really short block, as a perfect example..
uzgen   162821
(379)    19:31:23
2012-01-18   00:01:41   2777   99.78%   44/120    8   0.04907340
(-193.52%)    0.00024660
0.27% avg

Total shares = 2777
My shares = 8
Proportional = (8/2777)*50 = 0.14404033 BTC
My DG Payout = 0.04907340 BTC

Why does DG yield such a poor payout in this instance?  1/3 what pure proportional would have paid..
I'd need more data (and time) to give a definitive answer, but it looks like you're seeing variance in the number of shares you found. Let's say you have about 0.1% of the pool's total hashrate, so in a period of 2777 shares you'd expect to find 3 shares. DGM reward is influenced by your past work so will be comparable to that average. But if you were lucky and got 8 shares (which is definitely within the realm of possibility, chance for a Poisson variable with mean 3 to be at least 8 is 1.2%), your proportional reward will be much higher.

Additionally, it seems like the %prop stat may be .. wrong.. or at least misleading..  -193% of anything would be a subzero number..
-65.93% would seem more appropriate.. 65.93% less than what pure proportional would have been..
(.14404033 - .04907340) / .14404033 = 65.93
Maybe it's misleading, but it looks like it simply gives a percentage with DGM payout as the base, that is .14404033 - 193.52% * 0.04907340 = 0.04907340.
2134  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: [ANN] Changes to AML Policies - Mt.Gox on: January 19, 2012, 07:31:02 AM
1. Since when require notarization to get verified? I dont remember i've submitted a notarization.
For a while now verification requires any documents to have a notarized translation if they do not already contain the necessary details in Latin script.

2. If i have got verified, do i need to submit notarization with apostille ?
I don't think the new requirements apply retroactively.
2135  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: [ANN] Changes to AML Policies - Mt.Gox on: January 18, 2012, 03:46:16 PM
With all these demands I hope people will finally start using bitcoins instead of exchanging them back to fiat.
I doubt that this is the effect that we'll see from this. Right now Mt. Gox is the number one exchange and they do not have SEPA withdraws nor do they even allow SEPA deposits without being verified. This new process makes verifications ridiculously hard to send, I've been forced to verify myself on dozens of major gambling sites over the years and I've never seen anything like this.

What is going to happen next is that Mt. Gox is going to lose customers. With Bitcoinica considering to become its own exchange, I think the days of Mt. Gox being the number one exchange are going to be over. None of the smaller exchanges have these kind of requirements, this is taking inconvenience to a whole other level. Unacceptable.

In the short term this is a MAJOR hit to especially European Bitcoiners. I know a lot of people who have already been pissed how difficult money transfers are, after this announcement many are going to say "fuck it". I'm just lucky to already be verified at Mt. Gox but if I weren't, I would also say fuck it.
Not sure if serious. Mtgox aren't doing this because they feel like spiting you. All exchanges have been through tons of shit with legal and banking issues. It stands to reason that Mtgox, dealing with volumes orders of magnitudes more than other exchanges, suffer from more fraud and are subject to more scrutiny than the others.

Another exchange may or may not succeed Mtgox, but they will suffer the same problems and will likely come up with similar solutions.
2136  Economy / Services / Re: hedge for merchants anyone ? on: January 18, 2012, 03:10:52 PM
I think no payment processor would want to internalise that risk
They don't internalise that risk. They make a one-time purchase of some BTC and keep it on the exchange (if the exchange offers selling on margin even that much isn't necessary). When they receive bitcoins on behalf of a merchant they sell the corresponding amount on the exchange immediately, and receive exactly the dollar amount they owe to the merchant. Then they can at their leisure transfer the bitcoins to the exchange to replenish their balance.

This way they don't suffer at all from daily fluctuations. They could suffer from long-term depreciation of their investment (again, only if they're holding BTC rather than selling on margin), but a business of this kind is likely to be long on BTC anyway.

The investment in BTC or collateral only needs to correspond to the total payment processed in the hour or so it takes to get bitcoins to the exchange, which is bearable.

This is all what I think they should do, I don't know how Bit-Pay specifically actually does it.
2137  Economy / Services / Re: hedge for merchants anyone ? on: January 18, 2012, 01:21:46 PM
item X cost 6 usd
the average price for 1 btc in last x days is 6 usd

the market go nuts

case 1
1 btc on the purchase moment cost 7$
client pay 6 usd merchant get 1 btc
payment processor have 1$ temporary lose

case 2
1 btc on the purchase moment cost 5$
client pay 6 usd merchant get 1 btc
payment processor have a temporary gain of 1$
Going by the average rate is stupid. The merchant should always use the current rate, anything else is an invitation for dutch booking.
2138  Economy / Services / Re: hedge for merchants anyone ? on: January 18, 2012, 12:25:52 PM
i think you dint get my point, it needs to be the other way around USD to BTC not BTC to USD
Please explain, this isn't clear at all.
2139  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: Send coins from specific address in wallet on: January 18, 2012, 11:35:49 AM
Money come from address X, and go out using address Y... With Bitcoin 0.4 this is possible, right?!
You just need to change "Your Bitcoin Address" field...
Increasing anonymity...
That's not how it works.

Mind if I ask why you think you want to do this?
I don't know about the OP but there are plenty of use cases. Personally I'd be more interested in an option to send from any address but a specified one.
2140  Economy / Services / Re: hedge for merchants anyone ? on: January 18, 2012, 10:25:45 AM
Bit-Pay already offers instant conversion to USD, so merchants get the exact amount of USD they sold for (minus fees). Volatility for merchants is a solved problem, and it's important to make merchants aware that they can accept Bitcoin payments without ever owning a single bitcoin.
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