I just assume Lab_rat has his hands full... Thanks!
Maybe true. But imagine telling that to anyone that doesn't get the memo, and their bonds get "absorbed". I assume that when the timing gets close he will announce the bondholders that haven't confirmed with him giving them even another chance to do so. Yes I will be making a public list that will contain the address in one column and either ( Verified, Failed Verification, or Not Received ) so no personal info will be public ie. email addresses or anything else. Right now I've been going 12 hours and now I get to start going through 170 verification emails from people and trying to update as much as I can. So to anyone who wishes they'd hear more from me, I apologize, but it's not currently feasible to make forum posts constantly when I'm working 18-20 hour days. In short I will say that everything went great today including the highlight of the day, having a lunch/business meeting with Dave. EDIT: about the name in the message, it's more of an identification method as I recognize a lot of names from the forums. If you do not use the forums, you may just input the email you're sending from. FWIW - TY Zachary |
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I'll offer $850 or equivelent BTC for the first one. $700 for any other that can deliver within october
am located in Toronto, ON
Err - did you not read my post? I will get a 100% refund from my CC if I do not accept the shipments. Why would I sell to you for less? If SC60's (60 GH/s) are going for what you are offering then buy them. I'm happy to refuse the shipments if this offer is of no practical value to anyone. |
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**** UPDATED ***** Amex says Two More Weeks until chargeback process is complete. Where have I heard that before? 11 of the 12 units have been refused and BFL still shipped the 12th which now on its first leg of a round trip to Kansas.
This offer is only for shipment within Canada as it does not make sense to receive goods here and pay the 12% taxes on them and then reship those items back to the USA or elsewhere.
I am offering 12 BFL SC 60's ordered March 10 - 29th for BTC with escrow AT COST and include all chip credits FWIW. Cost is defined as the sum of the price of each SC60 + shipping + escrow fee and any taxes paid on arrival into Canada. You pay the actual cost of shipping to you based on your preferred method. I will ship the gear unopened and unused on the day it is received.
The first of the 12 units are in transit with tracking available. I expect the rest will ship within the next week.
To be clear, I have a credit card chargeback underway and BFL will undoubtedly ship all my gear before it is concluded. The credit card company has stated I can refuse the shipments and it will not prejudice the chargeback process. If I do not sell these units I will refuse the orders and I will get my money either way. Nevertheless, I know some people are buying at marked up prices and I thought it appropriate to offer them to someone else in Canada rather than have them pay an inflated price.
PM me with the number of SC's you want and the method of shipment requested and I will prepare a quote. If you agree the price we will calculate the equivalent value in BTC based on the sell price at Cavirtex 1 -2 days before the shipment is due to arrive. Transfer of BTC into escrow will be done once orders are shipped and tracking in the USPS system.
You select the escrow provider but if you are not sure I can suggest a couple.
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Sorry for the newb question, but I believe my address on bitfunder was one I created on my bitcoinqt wallet, does that mean it's one I can sign messages with?
It would be really great if someone could post a quick how-to so that everyone can check that they can do this before the shut-down, otherwise there will likely be many tears. I am sadly too busy to do this, but am just throwing this out there as an invaluable suggestion... I found this thread which breaks down the concept of signing a message. Unfortunately, the term "sign a message" is a little counter-intuitive. It should read "create a message signature". In essence, you use Bitcoin-QT or Blockchain.info or whatever client to generate a signature key for a specific BTC address AND the message associated with that address as it is typed in the message window. THEN you copy that information to an email, PM or whatever and send it. You do not send the message you generated the signature for from the client it was created in. This thread is specific to blockchain.info but the concept is the same across all clients as it is a function of Bitcoin itself. Also - you can change the address associated with your bonds (shares or whatever) in Bitfunder. If you are one of those people who used an invalid address you should perhaps consider fixing it by editing your settings in Bitfunder. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=180068.0 |
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It is egregious that all open trades were not cancelled for this announcement.
In the future - if there is one for Bitfunder, announce this by broadcast email to the users and cancel all open trades.
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"This is a privately held, nonpublicly traded company. This company and the PMB's being offered are not regulated by any governmental entities including the SEC or any other agency or board"
This is not regulated by any government entities or the SEC as per the statement above.
Did lab_Rat get confirmation from the government and SEC about this? Why is it unlikely to happen? What info have we been given about this apart from the above statement?
Zach specifically structured LRM and the number of bonds to be a limited offering of a PRIVATE COMPANY. LRM is not intended to be a publicly traded company. He did this in consultation with a legal advisor and was deliberate in the approach in order to avoid the issues that might arise from regulatory scrutiny. |
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That is why you need to trust the lies.
I trust in AMEX chargeback |
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Hmmmm- wonder if I just got IP banned by Josh..... I was in the SB chatting about my chargeback and BOOOOOM.... its like BFL dropped off the planet No wait - they did just drop off the planet - the internet part of the planet that is  |
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So annoyed by Josh's bullshit. He doesn't even know what a hedge is. You invest in something and you reduce the risk of that investment by betting that the value might go down by purchasing another financial instrument. ie. you buy two things. Typically you'd invest in an equity and then put a short option on the same equity, so that you minimise your losses either way.
If I was hedging on the bitcoin price I'd buy Bitcoins and also buy an option on the price going down. In what way is putting my money into BFL's bank account for a year reducing my risk on the movement of the price of bitcoin? If I get a refund I still haven't made any money on Bitcoin because I didn't have any Bitcoin because BFL had my money!!!
Josh is a stupid asshole who thinks he's cleverer than he is. It's annoying me that he is annoying me :-)
The only "hedging" that could be done would have the same effect as selling bitcoin at the time the order is placed and buying them back later when you requested a refund. This would only apply if you are paying in bitcoin. If people were actually placing orders to do this I would be surprised as you could have the same result by trading on an exchange. I wonder how many people hedged their investment by selling their pre-order via whatever means, then turned around and somehow got a refund for the order, still unbeknown to the person awaiting their miner. The original pre-orderer can stall for a long time--prior to going dark--by claiming there's some sort of snafu over at Camp BFL, and will ship as soon as received themselves, going as far as stating that they'll even toss them a bone of some sort. As someone who attempted to sell my preorders I can assure you there is virtually no market for them. In hand gear is different as people appear to be irrational in their valuation of it. If I had in hand gear I would instantly put it up for sale on bitmit. Given that I possess only preorders ATM I elected to charge it back. Furthermore, I find it amusing for BFL or any of their erstwhile representatives to suggest that a customer is at fault for pursuing a legally available option to terminate a transaction. After all, BFL voluntarily made this option available by accepting paypal and credit card purchases. It was their choice to do so and their surprise at the consequence of that choice provides further insight into their iterative approach to their "business". |
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Update:
I added the email addresses to the main post, at this point I don't think it's worth trying to keep it private since so few people are receiving responses/refunds...
If anyone has any questions feel free to hit me up, however, I will not reply to messages asking what can be done when you don't receive a response. I simply don't know and I'm not sure I have the time to find another avenue especially since BFL no longer does business via PayPal.
I'm glad so many people have been able to obtain a refund, however, this was very time consuming for me and I don't have an hour+ every day to continue to respond to messages when I could be working or trading. Best of luck to everyone!
J And remember, always fund your future PayPal purchases with a credit card |
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any idea if I can force BFL into refunding my Bitcoin purchased orders? Bitcoin is money, and they should also be refunding the Bitcoin amount in my opinion. Anyone got any good advice on how to proceed? I want this company out of my life. If I have to I'll sue them, but any other tips would be appreciated.
The only possible means by which you could do so would be as a result of a successful legal action. And, the refund would be in US legal tender. You would not experience a XBT USD exchange rate benefit as a result |
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Difficulty increased by 125% in the past 30 days.
Not sure what your point is by stating an obvious fact..... At least also illustrate a relevant comparison with the correlating increase in LRM hash rate in the last 30 days |
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cross post from PP refund thread
Ok - here is the new twist...... it is entirely possible that PayPal has run out of BFL funds to chargeback as they answered my request by saying I should call my credit card company.....
Did you use the back door guy at Paypal who is familiar with the situation and were told that? I followed the steps that were provided by lajz99 and the result was that PayPal stated: "Please contact your credit card company directly regarding additional details and/or concerns, as chargebacks are initiated through them." Per my post I had gone down that road before and was not optimistic that I would be successful by trying again. I tried and it worked. This may solely be a function of Amex but I have heard of others being successful with long term chargebacks with CC companies like Visa. It may also be that BFL is flagged somehow. Whatever the case - I'm a happy monkey! |
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cross post from PP refund thread Ok - here is the new twist...... it is entirely possible that PayPal has run out of BFL funds to chargeback as they answered my request by saying I should call my credit card company..... I attempted to do this two - three weeks ago and was denied a chargeback from Amex as the period was past their 90 day cut off...... One last hail mary was in order and - Holy. Fucking. Shit. they disputed the charges and have suspended 12 singles worth of March orders back to my account pending a fraud investigation. Also, I confirmed explicitly with Amex that if BFL sent product as a response to the charge back that I would refuse the shipment and Amex agreed that in such a situation the chargeback would proceed - we are talking just shy of $17,000 spread over 4 orders Thank you AMEX - I love you. Really, I do. And thank you PayPal for telling me to call my credit card company again. Onward and upward.... And, yes Josh. This monkey is dancing.  |
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Ok - here is the new twist...... it is entirely possible that PayPal has run out of BFL funds to chargeback as they answered my request by saying I should call my credit card company..... I attempted to do this two - three weeks ago and was denied a chargeback from Amex as the period was past their 90 day cut off...... One last hail mary was in order and - Holy. Fucking. Shit. they disputed the charges and have suspended 12 singles worth of March orders back to my account pending a fraud investigation. Also, I confirmed explicitly with Amex that if BFL sent product as a response to the charge back that I would refuse the shipment and Amex agreed that in such a situation the chargeback would proceed - we are talking just shy of $17,000 spread over 4 orders Thank you AMEX - I love you. Really, I do. And thank you PayPal for telling me to call my credit card company again. Onward and upward.... And, yes Josh. This monkey is dancing. |
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Wow, btct shutting down? I wonder if the SEC got after them? this is going to bring everyone to bitfunder. not sure if thats a good thing or a bad thing.. But, I do think that will bring more light to LRM and people will see the value and im confident that it will continue to be a popular bond...
Im in for whats ever best for LRM short term, especially long term..
Just another reason to support Open-Transactions. Please give some of your dividends to OT so We can have a truly decentralized exchange and smart contracting system. We will not have to worry about such shutdowns any longer or at least not as much. OT is being formalized as Monetas. Fellowtraveler is part of the Monetas founder team and they are making serious progress. www.monetas.netBtct shutting down is serious. Fortunately, Zach purposefully structured LRM to be within the regulatory climate for private companies. This is definitely not the case for others in the marketplace who have floated offerings of millions of shares. It will be very interesting to see what happens with Bitfunder in the coming weeks. That said LRM is also positioned to work without bitfunder. Can you say "distributed peer to peer blockchain based corporate entities" three times fast? |
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One of the main reasons for doing this I can't share as of yet because it's not my news to share. People would just have to know it's for the greater good of the company and would help out a ton in the long run.
This sounds somewhat ominous to me. If you read between the lines you can speculate that Lab_Rat has been offered a very competitive rate for miners and to take advantage of this he needs to commit to a certain amount within a time frame. This actually sounds very promising. That makes sense... I hope that your right.... I really thought that when people saw the dividends payed out from the 30ths, the price of the stock would skyrocket, but maybe the plans will still do that. It has to do with a deal I can get starting in Nov. so the 2 weeks from mid Oct. would put us there with some decent funding. All I can say about it. I don't know how much is public about the topic I'm speaking of so I'm not giving out any details. Perfect! I recommend that people read the "Speed of Trust" by Steven Covey Jr. - that and risk only what you can afford to lose in BTC land. |
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One of the main reasons for doing this I can't share as of yet because it's not my news to share. People would just have to know it's for the greater good of the company and would help out a ton in the long run.
This sounds somewhat ominous to me. If you read between the lines you can speculate that Lab_Rat has been offered a very competitive rate for miners and to take advantage of this he needs to commit to a certain amount within a time frame. This actually sounds very promising. That makes sense... I hope that your right.... I really thought that when people saw the dividends payed out from the 30ths, the price of the stock would skyrocket, but maybe the plans will still do that. Sure - we would all love to see the notional asset increase in the form of increased bond price..... But, this is a long play far more than it is a short run speculation on the bond price. As someone who is looking to accumulate more I am grateful for the bargains presently available. Clearly higher bond prices will support future hardware acquisitions when it comes time to release the balance of the 50K in reserve - but the 'eye on the prize' at the moment is squarely on ramping up hashrate ASAP to establish a sustainable position in the network. Personally, and most particularly after my BFL experience, I see the benefit of LRM's approach to build out. As he continues to execute his plan the results will bring the value to the bond price IMO. |
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I would be willing to give up my two weeks worth of dividends if Lab_Rat included his 5% management fee in it as well for those two weeks.
From what I'm gathering "Every Bitcoin Counts". I think this would show a lot of good faith towards shareholders.
That being said, we would be looking at around ~200 Coins from two weeks worth of dividends to be reinvested back into LRM.
In all honesty, that's NOT that much. Would ~$26,000 really get that much of a better deal with Bitfury?
It would be more like 850BTC or 807.5 at 95% (scooping 5% for elec). I'd prefer to at least cover rent out of it too as that's what's intended in the 25% cut from divs. So let's say somewhere between 5 and 10% and I'll throw in my share. As bittymitty stated it was the original plan, but I got hardware and wanted to show good faith and pay divs as early as possible. Works for me! TY LR |
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