You have not explained to me what cut and choose solves, how it solves it, etc.. The quoted explanation is incomplete.
Cut and choose is required because there is no way to commit to releasing a private key. You can commit to releasing the value of x such that hash(x) = y. If both coins support CLTV, then you can commit to a hash and no cut and choose is required. Understood. Few altcoins actually support it. The cut and choose allows you to commit to releasing a private key for a given public key. It's a cheat.
You commit to a hash of the private key. The cut and choose is to make sure that the hash actually refers to a private key.
The other party can make an altcoin payment to a 2 of 2 multisig with confidence. Since you committed to releasing the private key before the timeout, it eliminates the hold up risk.
I don't understand the mechanism. Please explain how the protocol accomplishes the goal. |
|
|
|
Wrote a private msg and might as well share: I want to inform you that I just can't continue with my health in this condition. Although I thought I had some improvement, this is relative to the horrible condition I was in July to Sept, wherein I could barely function at all. I realize I am not functioning at a high level and still quite ill.
There is some problem with my digestive system (colon, intestine, gall bladder, pancreas, and/or liver) and I have permanent black circles around my eyes. I've been eating only coconut milk mixed with very high doses of curcumin powder, fish, and rice. I still had pain and unable to perform normally but was slightly improved. I tried drinking apple juice as it is supposed to aid digestion, especially dissolve any gall stones I might have. The result was my worse symptoms flared up again.
Bottom line is I can't perform normally in this condition. It is a constant malaise.
I will try to find a Philippine doctor today to give me an ultrasound, endoscopy, etc.. More or less I don't think the doctors here are professional and qualified, but I can't really afford to go abroad for treatment.
Depending on the findings, I might need a highly experimental treatment which is a fecal transplant (transferring fecal matter from a healthy person into my anus). I don't believe it is done here in the Philippines, perhaps only in Italy, Argentina, and Australia. If I travel to one of the those and pay the high cost, I will nearly consume all the funds I have (or let's say at least 50% of them). So I might have to try to do it myself here, which is not ideal because the donor candidate will not have been properly tested for diseases, fecal matter not processed in a laboratory, etc..
Any way, I want you to know that my behavior at this time is not my normal self. I can barely see sometimes. Barely think. Pain. Headaches, lack of energy to be upright and think. etc..
I am really in a bad predicament. I am so capable that I could totally shock the crypto world if I am healthy. but in this condition, I am nearly useless.
It is extremely frustrating. But I can't go on any longer like this. I can't cope. I must try to do something and today.
VanillaCoin is the most low life scam there is, even more than Dash, which I thought wasn't possible: The "terminal illness" is a lie to gain confidence, refer to con-man 101 or matchstick 101.
John I challenge you to bet in BTC. Let's say 5.5 BTC because that is all I have right now. I will bring the video camera to the doctor's appointment today, provide notarized copy of doctor's statement, copies of documenting tests such as ultrasound, endoscopy, etc.. I can also provide photos of my face, and you can see the permanent black circles around my eyes. That you've stooped this low in your lies, is indicative of the scammer that you are. I challenge you also to a live debate on video now! Right now! Stop hiding you liar. I will make a total fool of you in video and you know it! You are scared and you can't accept the challenge. |
|
|
|
Bringing this topic back on track, I'd like to discuss what I believe is the primary challenge in creating a decentralised, trustless, p2p cryptocurrency. Nash equilibrium for non professional miners.
Because power always centralises, if you reward miners, you create a point of centralisation so the apparent solution is not to reward them at all - instead you make it such that every user has to mine their own transaction in order to participate. And on the surface this seems fine but dig a little deeper and the nash-equilibrium is broken because the cheapest, least risky way (PoW cost and orphaning risk) for users to participate in this process is for them to ignore as much of the network as possible within the bounds of the protocol.
For example, (in a blockchain design with the LCR rule) if you require them to include as many mempool transactions as they can see in their blocks, they are incentivised to pretend they see only their own transaction because the probability of their new block being orphaned by double spend increases with every other transaction they include. This will cause the chain to become divergent because the structure of a chain doesn't permit high frequency blocks resulting from this rational behaviour; the LCR will be wildly selecting between candidate chains in an unintentional orphaning war caused by a combination of this rational behaviour, network latency and the chain structure itself.
In a probabilistic DAG design, even if you have only one transaction per block, orphaning risk still persists; submitting your transaction at the tip of the DAG is more risky than submitting it further down the hierarchy (because probability of being in an orphaned branch decreases with the number of children), so users have an incentive to widen the DAG which is the same as saying they agree not to make forward progress. In addition, users are incentivised to reference as few parents as possible, because the more parents they reference, the higher the chance of their transaction referencing a branch which will become orphaned due to a double spend which isn't apparent when they submit their transaction.
Even if you do away with orphans completely and have a deterministically ordered DAG with one transaction per block, the incentive is for users to reference as few parents as possible because every parent they reference will be given ordering priority over them, which is opposed to the timely confirmation incentive. The narrowest possible DAG is always desirable because the strength of the network decreases linearly in the number of partitions, and partitions are merged by referencing parents.
I maintain that unless there is a monetary incentive to behave in favour of the network as a whole, instead of being purely rational, the nash equilibrium is destroyed.
Thoughts?
Nash also said you win as a whole with the team and lose as an individual, therefor you must act in benefit of the entire network (team) to have the most efficient and effective system. This was his breakthrough where adam smith said the opposite. Nash equilibrium doesn't apply to society. It applies in some cases. Adam Smith did not say the opposite. |
|
|
|
So let's hear you display some knowledge of functional polymorphism? Explain ML functors? What is a type class and why are there no inductive types in Haskell?
Etc..
It's not functional polymorphism, but parametric polymorphism. A type class is the way of doing ad-hoc polymorphism in Haskell. There is not inductive types in Haskell because all types include bottom value. Do you still think you're the only one in here that know things?
Vanillacoin is a gem. Vanillacoin forumWell I was thinking of precisely the following post which says "(parametric) polymorphism", but I term it functional polymorphism since it using functional parameters instead of parametric types of instantiable OOP objects: http://scala-language.1934581.n4.nabble.com/scala-usefulness-of-OOP-tp2000320p2000339.html(what a small world, I see Gregory Meredith participated in the above discussion) No why would you assume such an absurd notion when I never indicated  I suppose you just have an ego problem (must be your irrational association with VNL, did you invest your lunch money?). I obviously know I am not the only one since I learned about Haskell's bottom type populating all types via Robert Harper's blog post. I didn't ask you, I asked Fuserleer. But I already was aware that Haskell inverts the type hierarchy and puts bottom at the top of the hierarchy, or rather let's say Haskell is the dual and has co-inductive types. I wrote more about that here: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/scala-language/PIhmEeMg-Ms/SUdf950G_T0JIf you truly know these matters and didn't just Google for them, then why on God's earth do you think VanillaCoin is a gem. Cripes surely you are smart enough to realize Zerotime and Chainblender are highly flawed. |
|
|
|
I suggest you look up the phrase 'opportunity cost'. It doesn't mean that someone earns something. It means the potential of earning. And don't know what is wrong with your eyes but $200,000 - $500,000 is a range. And I don't know what rock you've been sleeping under, but college grads with no experience get $200,000 offers at Google. I was earning more than that in 1995.
Google "Average college salary" and "The overall average starting salary for Class of 2014 college graduates stands at $48,707, up 7.5 percent from the average of $45,327 posted by the Class of 2013 at this time last year, according to NACE's September 2014 Salary Survey report." I get so tired dealing with you guys that intentionally misrepresent the facts as the salary for "software engineer" is in the $75 - $100k range: http://www.indeed.com/salary/Software-Engineer.htmlhttp://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer/SalaryHowever, note I am expert in Scala, so that bumps me up to $110 - $120k range: http://www.indeed.com/salary/q-Scala-Programmer-l-California.htmlBut more importantly realize I was earning $80k + $1 million in stock options (2 year vestment) in 1995. Inflation adjusted that is 6 x $80 = $480,000 just in salary and not including the stock options. Besides in 2001 alone, I earned roughly $350,000+. Inflation-adjusted that! The only issue for me is my health problem. If I didn't have a health issue, I would wipe your retarded faces on my ass with my accomplishments. Unfortunately were not all as blessed to be hired as Scroogle coming out of school with no work experience.
Fact is that I was earning more than the $200k that Google pays top recruited Stanford grads. Weep but that is a fact. Smooth earns more than $500k. And you guys waste his fucking time your retarded nonsense. But anyway the point stands, why is the dev of Bitcoin core and someone who says he routinely can/or/earns between $200k and $500k arguing for a year with the developer of a sub $1m dollar alt coin? (probably even sub $200k at the time Maxwell first got into it with JC) That makes even high school dropouts raise an eyebrow.
Agreed! Same thing I've argued to smooth in private. I saw this same phenomenon the other day when a lead Ethereum developer saw the volume on Expanse and got butthurt on twitter about it, getting absolutely angry over an asset worth 1/500th of his, is this what keeps the elite up at night?
I have no idea, but we are people. We do it for the social interaction and also much of my posting is about research. Because I need to research all technologies and competitors, so I might as well post my thoughts (for my own reference and also the people who follow my posts). I hope you realize I have 2 angel investors and they follow my posts. |
|
|
|
I suggest you look up the phrase 'opportunity cost'. It doesn't mean that someone earns something. It means the potential of earning. And don't know what is wrong with your eyes but $200,000 - $500,000 is a range. And I don't know what rock you've been sleeping under, but college grads with no experience get $200,000 offers at Google. I was earning more than that in 1995.
Google "Average college salary" and "The overall average starting salary for Class of 2014 college graduates stands at $48,707, up 7.5 percent from the average of $45,327 posted by the Class of 2013 at this time last year, according to NACE's September 2014 Salary Survey report." I get so tired dealing with you guys that intentionally misrepresent the facts as the salary for "software engineer" is in the $75 - $100k range: http://www.indeed.com/salary/Software-Engineer.htmlhttp://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Software_Engineer/SalaryHowever, note I am expert in Scala, so that bumps me up to $110 - $120k range: http://www.indeed.com/salary/q-Scala-Programmer-l-California.htmlBut more importantly realize I was earning $80k + $1 million in stock options (2 year vestment) in 1995. Inflation adjusted that is 6 x $80 = $480,000 just in salary and not including the stock options. Besides in 2001 alone, I earned roughly $350,000+. Inflation-adjusted that! The only issue for me is my health problem. If I didn't have a health issue, I would wipe your retarded faces on my ass with my accomplishments. Unfortunately were not all as blessed to be hired as Scroogle coming out of school with no work experience.
Fact is that I was earning more than the $200k that Google pays top recruited Stanford grads. Weep but that is a fact. Smooth earns more than $500k. And you guys waste his fucking time your retarded nonsense. But anyway the point stands, why is the dev of Bitcoin core and someone who says he routinely can/or/earns between $200k and $500k arguing for a year with the developer of a sub $1m dollar alt coin? (probably even sub $200k at the time Maxwell first got into it with JC) That makes even high school dropouts raise an eyebrow.
Agreed! Same thing I've argued to smooth in private. I saw this same phenomenon the other day when a lead Ethereum developer saw the volume on Expanse and got butthurt on twitter about it, getting absolutely angry over an asset worth 1/500th of his, is this what keeps the elite up at night?
I have no idea, but we are people. We do it for the social interaction and also much of my posting is about research. Because I need to research all technologies and competitors, so I might as well post my thoughts (for my own reference and also the people who follow my posts). I hope you realize I have 2 angel investors and they follow my posts. |
|
|
|
Blockstream has over $60mil in funding to develop side chains. With Confidential Transactions coming to Bitcoin, do you think privacy-centered altcoins like XMR will suffer a decline in demand against new side chains?
Don't worry, Blockstream is incompetent. Another cluster-fuck of overconfidance as is Ethereum. Side-chains can't ever work, unless they are merge-mined on the chain they side-channel. Blockstream is basically proposing Segregated Witness which is reall a Trojan horse to take control over Bitcoin forks by introducing versioning (which will make it easier for them to soft-fork Bitcoin at-will). Bitcoin is in a cluster-fuck already with China's mining cartel controlling 65% of the hashrate. Do you mean we need the Bitcoin Classic to take over the bitcoin so that it is in people's hands again? What I think is probably more words than I feel like writing down. Mining is broken in all the coins in existence. Someone needs to provide a coin that has mining that won't centralize as it scales. Bitcoin will centralize. It doesn't matter how it happens, it will happen. Blockstream, Classic, China's mining cartel, all will jockey for position but the result will be centralization. |
|
|
|
|
monsterer there are no mempools in my design.
|
|
|
|
I'm not qualified enough to say if JC's code is really worth its weight in gold or not, but it tells you something when a Bitcoin dev gets riled up over what the dev in an endless sea of altcoins is doing. Same goes for someone claiming to make $500k a year...
I suggest you look up the phrase 'opportunity cost'. It doesn't mean that someone earns something. It means the potential of earning. And don't know what is wrong with your eyes but $200,000 - $500,000 is a range. And I don't know what rock you've been sleeping under, but college grads with no experience get $200,000 offers at Google. I was earning more than that in 1995. You are really clueless as to what developers earn. Again my issue is only that I have cancer or some serious health issue. That is my only problem. What you clueless n00bs write is entirely worthless. It would be like asking a snail to comment on math. |
|
|
|
I'm not really sure how to
value Vanillacoin at the
moment. If the insta send
method doesn't have any
security holes (if), then that
would provide some increased utility, but transactions still
need to be included in a block.
So I guess you get faster
speeds only while the network
is low traffic and if applied to
Bitcoin, wouldn't give any gains if blocks are perma full
since you would want to wait
until the transaction is actually
inside a block?
You should read up on lightning networks and Zerotime. Dude why don't you come off your high horse. I have researched LN intensively. I read the white paper. I watched a very long video where the creators explained the issues. That you equate Zerotime to LN shows you don't have a fucking clue about the technology. Do you guys even have a fucking clue whom you are talking to? ?? Do you think your ignorance can match someone who has been coding and doing computer science research for 30 years. You guys are just pathetic. LN is totally different technological concept from Zerotime. Limitations of blocksize does not directly related this way. VNL can do 100's of tps and Zerotime can add 100x's more tps without filling the blocksize as it is right now. Along with this VNL is set to have pruning and scaling of the block chain in place. Blocksize is never going to be an issue with vnl.
Pruning has nothing to do with scaling the tx/sec rate. And you don't even comprehend why I said Zerotime won't scale. It is just n00b garbage that you are slobbering. blah blah blah nonsense
Everything you write is wrong. Wrong, Wrong Wrong. You idiots enjoy fist fucking each other because you are going to be selling VNL bags to street children in exchange for used bottle caps. |
|
|
|
from old/grumpy/bitter phillipinos on forum boards
Retards can't spell filipino, and don't know the different between an expat US citizen and a filipino. And apparently retards think a man is "old" when he looks to be in his early 40s or late 30s (and 4 years ago before I got sick with some sort of cancer or problem in my gut, I was consistently told I look not older than 35). The only hope in hell you have that I won't wipe your faces on my ass, is that I have some sort of cancer or serious issue in my gut which is making it very difficult for me to work. Enough of this. Go make a thread discussing the project you are working on, there is no reason for you to constantly discuss it in other threads. Get it working in test net, publish your papers, and be scrutinized. Constant TROLLING, will do nothing for your project but turn off potential investors. You guys are trolling me. I responded. You go make another thread if you want (don't you ever tell me what to do, you are not the owner of this thread!). I have every right to respond to attacks. I posted facts in this thread and the retards don't like facts. So they attack me personally. That is what losers do. Readers are wise to your tactics. Yeah I wish enough of this. But your cohorts retards will never stop lying and trolling. WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT MY PROJECT? ? WE ARE TALKING ABOUT VANILLACOIN. WHY DO YOU MOVE THE GOAL POSTS. SOMETHING TO HIDE??? WHY ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT ME? NONE OF YOU CAN REFUTE ANY OF THE FACTS ABOUT VANILLACOIN. YOUR ONLY REBUTTALS ARE ATTACKS ON MY PERSON. LOSERS!!!!!!!!!!!!! RETARDS!!!!!!!!!! SCAMMERS!!!!!!!!!! |
|
|
|
from old/grumpy/bitter phillipinos on forum boards
Retards can't spell filipino, and don't know the difference between an expat US citizen and a filipino. And apparently retards think a man is "old" when he looks to be in his early 40s or late 30s (and 4 years ago before I got sick with some sort of cancer or problem in my gut, I was consistently told I look not older than 35). The only hope in hell you have that I won't wipe your faces on my ass, is that I have some sort of cancer or serious issue in my gut which is making it very difficult for me to work. I am 50 and have some of my own physical and mental challenges. After about 40, things just start falling apart. Knee and back pain, insomnia, anxiety, high cholesterol, etc. etc. The only thing I find that helps (other than doctors and the right pills) is you must take 5-10 minutes a day to stretch as your body becomes very rigid. Also do NOT try to do sports or activities like when you were 30. When I go to the gym I lift half the weight I did 20 years ago. If I try to push it, instead of just being sore for a few days, I get sore/injured and it is severe and lasts months to years. It is not worth it. As you age you just need to try and stay a little flexible and a little stronger with easy weight lifting. I do NO sports at all. If you really wanted to do a sport, swimming is probably the only safe one. Also us coders and computer geeks spend 18 hours/day sitting, which isn't good at all. Get up, walk around every hour, put your feet up on the desk, change positions, do anything other than sit like a statue all day and night. Best of luck.
Look I was hesitant to respond to this before, because frankly I am 50 and suffering pain in my gut yet I can still kick ass in athletics. I suffer from a lot of pain in my gut which also causes pain in my head, but this is due to the illness. In spite of that I still have had days where I got nuts in the gym same as I did throughout my entire life. Watch my video, I don't look old. I am worn down in my eyes from the illness. Just 4 years ago, I was still able to go full blast on any athletics. I am athlete. I ran sub-35 minutes 10Ks, etc.. I play American football. I messed up my shoulder recently shooting the basketball too much and boxing. I bought a hand dumbell for the house this week and I am rehabilitating the shoulder. Hey even sick and not able to train effectively I still have a 26" vertical leap. It is far down from my 36 - 38" in my 20s but if I could just train regularly I am confident it would climb back up to 30". I don't feel old except for this damn fucking shit in my gut, which is really holding me back from everything in my life. Arggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
|
|
|
The coin days requirement should be reserved for usage by user option when there is an ongoing attack, as otherwise new users wont be able to trade.
Allow me to correct you on this non-sequitor. The newness of a user of a decentralized exchange doesn't require that user's UXTO is newly acquired. I was thinking of someone that just got their first BTC locally. wouldnt that be too young to be used? maybe i dont understand the intended coinage well enough. If we assume that a lot of new users will be using the DE, they will be coming from the CE. And maybe they never had a local wallet, so they do a withdraw. patiently wait the confirms so it is in the wallet, then start a trade (after all they are doing this to use the DE) and then told "sorry you have to wait X amount of time since your dont have the right time of utxo" I really want to avoid having what is potentially a mainstream real world case have such an error message to be expected James You are building a DE so that should mean that users have some coins on a block chain that they wish to trade. Who knows how long ago they acquired those coins. The Coin Days Destroyed is the time (# of blocks) elapsed since the UXTO was created. Since this is suggested to be a user configurable setting which they set only on their own decentralized client (which filters which counter parties they accept to start the DE protocol), then user whose UXTO is very young, can set the threshold so their UXTO fulfills the chosen threshold. If the threshold isn't high enough, they incur more risk of being jammed. But also note that while they are being jammed, their UXTO is aging, so they can continually increase their chosen threshold if necessary to foil an attacker. There is no disadvantage to offering the feature. An error msg will never be shown. The only effect is the number of available counter parties may shrink as the threshold is raised, as well the risk of jam attack decreases as the threshold is raised. |
|
|
|
The cut and choose aspect is not requiring any details about bitcoin scripts. The idea is that one side commits to a large number of keypairs, the other side picks a random one and then the original side sends the privkeys to all keypairs except for the chosen one.
Probabilistically as long as the cost of the fee (which is required) must be more than the expected return. Current settings are 1000 keypairs and 1/777 as the fee, so there is about a 13% negative cashflow for anybody that tries to cheat on a large scale. Now whether preventing economically motivated attackers is enough or not, clearly it is a necessary problem to solve completely.
You have not explained to me what cut and choose solves, how it solves it, etc.. The quoted explanation is incomplete. I have no idea why cut and choose was even introduced as a replacement to TierNolan's original protocol which used a single hash. I tried reading the original discussion where cut and choose was first introduced and it doesn't quickly register for me. I think because it was explained by example employing Bitcoin op codes which I don't understand and also perhaps there were some lapses in explanation due to the those in the discussion not writing down what was already clear to them in their minds (and I am not able to read minds). Perhaps if I tried harder I could reverse engineer what is being introduced, but in the interest of saving time, I wish one of you could explain it clearly. I do understand the notion of an interactive probabilistic challenge function where the cheater can't cheat unless they can guess which challenge you will provide. The Compact Confidential Transactions uses this to prove in zero knowledge a number is contained within a much larger interval. This can when required be converted to non-interactive with the Fiat-Shamir transform. I just don't understand the application here. |
|
|
|
...
Gold will work, of course, as a Store of Value as long as you do not have to board the plane with it.
US resident citizens can always choose platinum if worried about the TSA upon exit or a general gold confiscation (unlikely IMO, but possible). Silver of course would be free of that confiscation threat, but it is bulky.
Or saffron? (Worth more than its weight in gold I have read)
Sorry I think this is ill informed advice. Any thing of value will be confiscated at transportation hubs, borders, checkpoints, routine inspections by police, etc.. And I am not convinced it will hold its value. Either we move too far into a Dark Age, and gold loses its value relative to food. Remember Armstrong has explained why this happens throughout history of man. Or we move to the Knowledge Age and gold loses its value relative to the crypto currency I am creating. Or maybe both! |
|
|
|
Martin warming up a wee bit to gold, it's just one paragraph so I copy 'n' paste it below (blue highlighting mine)
It's the same thing he has always said. He isn't warming. He has been a gold trader since the 1970s. |
|
|
|
...
Gold will work, of course, as a Store of Value as long as you do not have to board the plane with it.
US resident citizens can always choose platinum if worried about the TSA upon exit or a general gold confiscation (unlikely IMO, but possible). Silver of course would be free of that confiscation threat, but it is bulky.
Or saffron? (Worth more than its weight in gold I have read)
Sorry I think this is ill informed advice. Any thing of value will be confiscated at transportation hubs, borders, checkpoints, routine inspections by police, etc.. And I am not convinced it will hold its value. Either we move too far into a Dark Age, and gold loses its value relative to food. Remember Armstrong has explained why this happens throughout history of man. Or we move to the Knowledge Age and gold loses its value relative to the crypto currency I am creating. Or maybe both! |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
