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2281  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: On a decentralized bitcoin-based stock market... on: November 23, 2011, 05:50:23 AM
The reason GLBSE has been kind of crappy is not because it's centralised but because it's just crappy.
I'm sure we can have a great centralized stock exchange service. This doesn't obviate the need for a decentralized stock exchange.

Markets ALL markets are by their very definition centralised, that's the whole point, everyone comes to the one place to trade, that way they will find a buy for their sell and vice versa.
The "one place" is an abstract concept. It doesn't need to be a single physical location, and it doesn't need to be provided by a single service. If there is a p2p network where I can place a bid and have someone on the other side of the globe accept it, then the entire world is the one place where people come to trade.
2282  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: 'How to hop' blog 'How to hop 9' posted. on: November 22, 2011, 04:51:24 PM
Are PPLNS pools hoppable by selecting the backup pool with the highest pool share count?
No. The distribution of round length is memoryless, so having a high share count does not make it any more likely that a block will be found. The result is that a properly implemented PPLNS pool is hopping-proof - the expected payout per share is always the same no matter when it is submitted.
2283  Economy / Services / Re: Introducing the Bitcoin100 on: November 22, 2011, 03:55:01 PM
I pledge 1 BTC per organization, until further notice.

But if I'm allowed to be a bit of a spoilsport, I think we need to be realistic with respect to the success prospects of this initiative. 100 BTC is not a lot for the organizations that matter, and Bitcoin comes with legal and publicity baggage that they will be mindful of. If they need any convincing at all to accept bitcoins, a mere 100 BTC will not be what convinces them.

It's even worse if the funds aren't collected in advance. When the time comes to pay up you don't know who will have forgotten about the whole thing, who doesn't get the memo, who has run out of coins and who simply refuses to honor their pledge. And the organization will be less eager to go along if they're not assured the money is all accounted for.

Maybe we can learn a few things from the DOSBox pledge which was sort of similar but on a much smaller scale. That was essentially a one-man crew with a hobby project and without any real legal obligation, and the persuasion process was far from "100 BTC you say? Of course I'll accept bitcoins now!".
2284  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: On a decentralized bitcoin-based stock market... on: November 22, 2011, 10:51:52 AM
You may be interested in this thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=46834.0
A decentralized stock exchange is possible today within the bitcoin chain.
As far as I understand, this only allows essentially OTC stock trading. But to be a stock exchange it should have some mechanism to commit people to their orders. If I broadcast an order and someone wants to take me up on it, I can just decline. I can be required to tie up my coins/shares for the trade but I can't be required to go forward with it. This IMO will lead to inefficiency and manipulation.
2285  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How exactly would a 51% attack work? on: November 22, 2011, 07:11:21 AM
The blockchain should have checkpoints every X blocks to limit the time the attacker has to act.  Then if you wait 2x blocks you should be pretty safe.  Blocks 1 to x are checkpointed by block x+1, which itself will be checkpointed by block 2x+1.
I think the bitcoin client already does this.
There are manual checkpoints hardcoded with each release.  I'm proposing a much higher frequency of checkpoints.
If what you mean is that the client will never switch to a different branch, even if longer, if it rejects a block which already has x confirmations, this will lead to situations where a node has checkpointed the wrong version and will never be convinced to switch to the true one. I'll call this approach (which isn't new, of course) "branch cementing".

My own ideas for synchronizable checkpoints - proof of stake via signature blocks - can be found here. In fact this can work in conjunction with block cementing, since a wrong cement will occasionally be overthrown by a signature block.
2286  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [128 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/DGM/Merged Mining/PayPal Payout/SMS/US/EU/AU/More on: November 21, 2011, 08:00:16 PM
Maybe there's no good way to express it mathematically and it just needs an arbitrary label:
I think the question of what number to display is completely distinct from how to visualize it. For the number you can have (N/D-1) as it was before, or exp(-N/D) as it is now, or ln(N/D) as organ suggested. Each has its own pros and cons with respect to the message you want to deliver.

And then you can choose how each possibility should be visualized. If for example you feel that anything above 400% difficulty (which happens for 1.83% of blocks) is an Eternally Damned Cursed Block from Azazel, give it an icon and color to match.
2287  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How exactly would a 51% attack work? on: November 21, 2011, 07:44:20 PM
In the medium term I expect hashing power of the network to continue to decline as there is insufficient real transaction volume to warrant the current network size.
Well, currently mining is subsidized by generation. But once that's over it's not at all obvious that the network hashrate (scaled to hardware advances) will be as high as it is now even if Bitcoin is successful, and the incentives of trillion-dollar entities to attack it become ever greater.
2288  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How exactly would a 51% attack work? on: November 21, 2011, 06:48:29 PM
This attack isn't the only thing you can do with high hashrate, though.
What else can you do ? Please share. Thank you !
You can reject all blocks which do not belong to you, to make sure you get 100% of the block reward rather than your hashrate proportion.

You can reject all blocks which do not belong to you and not include any transactions in your own blocks, to prevent any transaction from being confirmed.

I think there are many misunderstandings about a 51% attack. There isn't much you stand to gain by using 51% of the hashing power to double spend. Let me explain...

There can only be one entity at a time who is in a position to do a 51% attack. It's not like everyone you transact with is suddenly going to burn you with a double spend. All the honest miners will focus their efforts on identifying who this 51% attacker is and not doing trades with them. Once it's known the network is under a 51% attack, the honest nodes will quickly start blacklisting addresses that performed double spends and limit the attackers ability to spend his coins. He would essentially be destroying all his coins.
Identifying addresses involved in double spending isn't trivial, especially if you consider that future advanced transaction schemes could make use of legitimately superseding one transaction by another.

Even if you could detect them, I for one disagree with the idea to blacklist addresses. And my own disagreement is indicative of the fact that it will be very difficult, if at all possible, to obtain consensus to do this, and even if so, the client software isn't set up for this and a lot of work would be required to enable this feature. Also, for this to work the entire network needs to agree which addresses are blacklisted which is also difficult, so you're guaranteed to have chaos.

The main misunderstanding is to think that the only reason to carry out a hashrate attack is to profit from a double-spend. More likely a hashrate attack will be carried out by someone who wants to destroy Bitcoin, or at least to profit from short-selling bitcoins. Generally, mechanisms to protect against profitable double spending will amplify the chaos that ensues during such an attack, making us more vulnerable to a malicious attack.

Also, once this starts happening the bitcoin rate will probably drop, and depending on the attack miners will have their blocks rejected so it won't be profitable. Miners will quit and then it will be even easier to continue the hashrate attack. And since the difficulty targeting algorithm doesn't handle sudden drops in hashrate well we have a whole new set of problems.

This is a problem which hasn't been solved yet. It is probably solvable, and I've written occasionally on some pieces of what I think the solution will be. And I'm sure you could respond with some additional protection mechanisms. But these all have their own pros and cons, and need to be carefully considered, agreed upon and implemented. We need to prepare in advance for the contingency of a hashrate attack. Otherwise the chaos of the event could radically shake the faith in Bitcoin.
2289  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [128 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/DGM/Merged Mining/PayPal Payout/SMS/US/EU/AU/More on: November 21, 2011, 05:23:31 AM
So I made some adjustments as you mentioned, Meni... I'm not sure that clears up any confusion, just seems to be trading it for different confusion.

So we have a 95% block, which is good luck, but a 13% block which is bad luck.  Seems like we should still have some sort of positive/negative list as to if we are under or over expected shares (difficulty). 
I don't think it's that important to know if it's above/below difficulty. "Luck" gives the connotation of making comparisons in the percentile space. Then average luck is 69.3% of the difficulty, which is the 50% percentile (median). Above 50% should be green, below should be red (currently it looks like the midpoint for colors is about 40%).

Anyway, I think it will look better if all numbers in the column will be in the format ##.##%, even if it has leading or trailing 0's.
2290  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [128 GH/s] EMC: 0 Fee/DGM/Merged Mining/PayPal Payout/SMS/US/EU/AU/More on: November 20, 2011, 08:22:32 PM
One of the problems with the luck column is that there is no upward bound on "bad" luck, whereas there is a negative bound of 1% (or 0% if it takes exactly one share to find a block) - you can only have a -99% luck factor, but you can have a theoretically infinite + luck factor.  So the color visualization is kind of misleading... if anyone has any ideas on how to improve the luck factor display, I'm all ears.
Depends on what exactly you want to achieve with the luck factor display, but one obvious way to have a balanced view is to use percentiles. If the round length is N and the difficulty is D, then exp(-N/D) is the (opposite of the) percentile, which is uniformly distributed from 0% to 100% - higher is better and 50% is in some sense average luck (unlike the current luck factor which is green more often than red). Then you can color-code that, maybe even with a continuous gradation from red to green.
2291  Bitcoin / Meetups / Re: EUROPEAN BITCOIN CONFERENCE 2011, PRAGUE NOV 25-27 on: November 20, 2011, 06:57:43 PM
What happened to Vladimir's talk?
2292  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: How exactly would a 51% attack work? on: November 20, 2011, 06:52:28 PM
Your understanding is close.
If I had 51%, I could mine a chain of blocks in which I transfer all my coins to my personal wallet. I'd mine this chain about 10 long, but not tell the rest of the network. At the same time, I convert all my coins to dollars on the exchange and withdraw them. This happens on the normal blockchain.

After my withdrawal has gone through. the normal blockchain is about 9 long, while my blockchain is 10 long. I announce all my blocks to the network, and lo and behold, the network confirms I am right.

But dollars can't be reverted! So the exchange takes a loss.


Instead of the exchange, I could do this with buying anything for bitcoins. If this happens a few times, it will probably kill bitcoin, or at least hurt the trust in the system severely.

Ahh, I see. So 51% is the magic number because that's the point at which a person can make alternative blocks faster than the rest of the network combined, and then spring the alternative, longer blockchain on everybody all at once, later on, where it replaces the blocks everyone thought were already finalized and settled.

Thank you!
Exactly. Satoshi's original paper contains calculations for how many blocks the recipient has to wait to keep the chance of succeeding in double-spending at a given level (say 0.1%), as a function of the attacker's hashrate. At >50% hashrate the number of blocks if infinite - no matter how many blocks are waited, the attacker has 100% chance to eventually have the longer chain.

This attack isn't the only thing you can do with high hashrate, though.
2293  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin More Convenient than Credit Cards on: November 20, 2011, 12:21:59 PM
As a consumer, I want the ability to make someone's life miserable if they screw me over or at the very least make sure that they get nothing from doing so, and I would happily suffer a loss of time and money to make that happen.
You can do this with Bitcoin, see for example my suggestion here. You'll need OP_EVAL and the seller's agreement to make this kind of transaction.

For me, any competing cryptocurrency's number one requirement is to create the genesis block, announce your currency with a release time at least 2 weeks in the future, and then let everyone start mining from the genesis block.
I don't think it would have changed much if Satoshi had waited 2 weeks between announcing the project and releasing the genesis block.
I wasn't around back then, but didn't more than a year pass since announcing the Bitcoin project to starting mining?

or if the payment has been made.
This. With Bitcoin you always know that a payment has been made and there can't be a disagreement on this by the two parties. I once heard someone going on and on with a contractor about how he wired him funds, and the contractor claiming he never received them. And that same person (who, by the way, often complains about how sending funds internationally is expensive and troublesome) had been dismissive of Bitcoin when I talked with him about it. Go figure.
2294  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: 'How to hop' blog 'How to hop 9' posted. on: November 20, 2011, 05:45:24 AM
Also, the simplified version was great. I know I've seen that approximation somewhere, but how do you derive the
Code:
D approximates -1/ln((D-1)/D) approximates 1/ln((D+1)/D) 
I should probably know this!
From the Taylor series of ln(1+x) You know that for x~0 you have ln(1+x)=x+O(x^2). So for large D you have 1/D ~ 0 and so ln(1-1/D) ~ -1/D and ln(U)/ln(1-1/D) ~ ln(U)/(-1/D) = -D*ln(U).

If you don't know the Taylor series of ln you can simply use the fact that the derivative of ln at 1 is 1. Or you could use exp(x) ~ 1+x and take logs of both sides.
2295  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: 'How to hop' blog 'How to hop 9' posted. on: November 19, 2011, 06:08:45 PM
round(ln(U)/(ln(1-1/D)))
Round length follows a geometric distribution starting at 1. So to generate a sample accurately, you should use 1+round(ln(U)/(ln(1-1/D))) (assuming "round" rounds down). For an approximation that works well for large D you can simply use round(-D*ln(U)).
2296  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [Bounty] Improve "Analysis of Bitcoin Pooled Mining Reward Systems" on: November 17, 2011, 09:52:14 PM
Why are you using hexadecimal amounts ?
It's a reference. But I won't spoil the fun by mentioning it explicitly.
2297  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: Analysis of Bitcoin Pooled Mining Reward Systems on: November 17, 2011, 06:35:35 PM
The work is now complete, but not quite finished. I might still add new content as time permits, and there's a bounty for helping me improve it.

Thanks to everyone who have given me their support.
2298  Bitcoin / Pools / [Expired] [Bounty] Improve "Analysis of Bitcoin Pooled Mining Reward Systems" on: November 17, 2011, 06:32:46 PM
In an effort to improve the quality of my paper Analysis of Bitcoin Pooled Mining Reward Systems, I am offering rewards for people who submit errata. Every factual error reported will be rewarded with one hexadecimal Bitcoin (0.16777216 BTC). Every valuable suggestion is worth 0.01048576 BTC - comments on content, structure, prose, format, style, spelling, grammar and typography are all welcome. Reports can be given here, in the main thread about the paper, or in a PM.

Some additional rules are:

1. The decision what constitutes an error, a suggestion or neither is entirely my own. Generally, a necessary condition to be either is that it leads me to make a change to the paper.

2. I can discontinue or change this offer at any time.

3. Only the first time each particular report is given will be rewarded, and only if it is relevant as of the most recent version.

4. If you specify a receiving address, I'll send to it. If not, I'll send to your signature address. If you don't have one, or if you explicitly waived the bounty, I will not send it.

Remember, your contribution to making this work better is worth much more than the bounty. It is a token of my gratitude, not a replacement for it. Don't let the small amount or any other consideration discourage you.
2299  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [180 GH/s] yourbtc.net - DGM - Merged Mining - NEW SERVER - 0% Fee - API on: November 17, 2011, 11:45:01 AM
Good point.  I thought something was up when Slush was no-where to be seen on the 24 hour chart.
Even funnier is when they put up names of Bitcoin core developers.
2300  Other / Off-topic / Re: All USD routed through USA? on: November 16, 2011, 08:38:59 AM
I have no idea what is "required", I can only speak of my experiences wiring to mtgox. Sometimes an intermediary was used, sometimes it wasn't. The fees for the intermediary were in the range $25-$33. For at least one of the transfers, I think the intermediary was "HSBC BANK USA NA GEN REM A/C HK NEW CASTLE".
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