Maybe there is some necessity for forum members to take you seriously, to presume that you are not failing to tell the whole story and/or to consider your own responsibilities in the matter.

Surely, I will praise you if you had held through the whole time, and your story it not so far out there that it could not be true, because I do recognize and appreciate that there are people who go too far into bitcoin by investing too much without having a plan for either price direction, including the extremes, which frequently it seems that the extremes come when not expected, but there are still needs to prepare for them, and it is problematic to go all in to any asset whether bitcoin or anything else if you could have looked at the chart and you could have seen that it had already gone up around 17x from its $4k-ish bottom from either March 2020 or from April 2019.. and going up to $69k-ish in November 2021.

I frequently describe the lump sum buyer at the top as a kind of fantasy situation in which no one would really do.. even though people do those kinds of thing...   

The smarter thing to do, even if you make a lump sum buy at the top, is to continue to buy all the way down and just continue buying, but part of the problem of the lump sum buyer at the top may well be that they don't have any money left for buying... so then the logic may well to be to just sit on the investment, which seems to be your story...

Maybe you will get back to profits, and maybe you never will, and the fact that you sit on your investment rather than continuing to buy, you have a higher price that you have to pray that the BTC price gets back to in order to get back in profits, as compared to the person who continued to buy might well be in the neighborhood of break even or at least way less under water than you, even though maybe the person who continued to buy may well have had ended up investing more into bitcoin.. so instead of buying 1 BTC at $69k (or whatever price and amount you bought), the one who continued to buy may well have ended up buying 2 BTC for a total amount invested of around $95k (see the DCA of $250 per week for the last two years to have had resulted in $26k invested and about 1 BTC accumulated).

So yeah having 1 BTC for $69k versus having 2 BTC for $95k might not feel like it makes too much of a difference, even though there are ways to bring down your average cost per BTC and there are ways to consider that it is fucking less than smart to go all in when the price is rising like that.. even though surely a decent number of people are lured into that kind of FOMO.. and also many of them end up selling - and cutting their losses way sooner rather than riding it out, so there is a bit of smarts to just let the investment ride out when a guy (or gal) realizes that s/he had made such a mistake in the event that s/he is not able to continue to invest to bring down his/her average cost per BTC.

Don't get me wrong.  I did something similar in late 2013 when I first got into bitcoin, and so I continued to buy bitcoin through 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017 (even though I did not really inject very much new money starting in about late 2016), and so my very first coin was in the negative all the way from late 2013 until about March 2017, but my average cost per BTC was only in the negative until about late 2015..... so I can understand the experience of how long it might take to build a BTC portfolio in the beginning and to get the BTC holdings into solid profits.. while at the same time realizing and appreciating that there are no guarantees regarding BTC's price direction or that it might end up going to zero, so there are needs to figure out position size in accordance with how much you want to put into such a bet.

Regarding your whinny comment about stocks out performing bitcoin in the period in which you invested, and even if true, you remain a dumb-ass if you believe that stocks are a better investment than bitcoin, even if you can figure out ways to spin facts or to selectively look at the bitcoin versus stocks situation in such a way to whine about it and to presume stocks to be a better investment... That kind of comment and dig at bitcoin, sounds quite disingenuine to me... or maybe you are just whining?  In any event, good luck with your investment into stocks and into other non-bitcoin assets, if you believe that is the direction to go..you are likely going to need a wee bit of good luck on your side.

Yeah, that article is 5 days old, but there are some other articles in the last day or so, including that the FTX estate has only just filed a civil lawsuit against SBF's parents for their fraudulent involvement of the business and their taking of customer money (Apparently alleging $16.4 million).. and perhaps these kinds of civil actions will end up leading to criminal actions against those slime balls parents.. that we already know that they have way more involvement than they have been given credit....

Fuck those trying to stay behind the scenes twats (it's all alleged at this point.. and prosecutors better also get on the scenes and allege some conduct that will put them where they belong, behind bars.. maybe they can all share cells.. hahahaha.. that would be too lenient... but they might be able to meet each other on the prison playground during times when they are allowed to go outside.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/09/sbfs-parents-were-given-16-4m-house-paid-for-entirely-by-ftx-lawsuit-says/

I did not consider slippage.. and I am thinking there would NOT be very much slippage with that quantity of BTC.. but sure, maybe it depends on the exchange and how the order is executed... .


In times like these, I sure wished someone would batslappening ujie-pooie for that nonsense... even if you might end up being correct with such negative-nancy prognosticatenings.


Oh gawd... 

Who deserves a batslappening more, Pingrapole or Biodom?

Holy fucking shit.

Don't be getting too worked up @snowpega when it comes to BTC price moves that can go in either direction in shorter time frames.. and even lasting for several months going in directions that are not expected and staying there for longer than expected and staying there for longer than expected. Any of our preparations should be both attempting to prepare for BTC price volatility, but expecting that it is going to take place and we do not have many ideas about the short-term price direction.


Surely price momentum is a thing in bitcoin, too... and whether or not the momentum has changed is not necessarily easy to determine in advance, even when some people think that they either got it figured out or they think that they know the direction that favor the odds.  They frequently get it wrong... which is part of the reason to prepare (both financially and psychologically) for either direction, even if you believe that you have high odds in favor of one direction over another.


Generally speaking, you seem to get the point which is you do not want part or all of your BTC to be serving as part or all of your emergency funds unless you are both in sufficiently high profits with the BTC and/or you have exhausted all other funds.. so usually you are going to want to have an overwhelming majority of your emergency funds in an asset/currency that is mostly (or closely) denominated in the currency that your expenses are denominated.. or that is appreciating (or holding value) at a better rate than the currency that your expenses are denominated.


Your frequently going through a need to cash out of some assets that you do not want to is likely a sign that you are overinvested in those assets and/or your emergency fund is not large enough.. and sure, you likely already know that... but you might be spending a bit too much time trying to make sure that your value is "working" and then you end up overdoing it and not having enough of the "nonworking" asset/currency that you need to pay your expenses.


You can still end up overinvesting and getting your self into the same kind of lack of an emergency fund, even with DCA.

DCA does not completely reduce the problem of overinvesting, but surely it can manage the overinvestment temptations that cause people (maybe moreso newbies, but it can happen to anyone who is overly investing and not sufficiently preparing emergency funds and projecting out cashflows for a sufficient amount of time in advance)..

I personally think that the thing that allows BTC accumulators to be aggressive in their bitcoin accumulation while not going overboard is to study each of their 9 factors as I mentioned in my earlier post, and some of those factors are more important to learn than others, and the better that s/he knows those 9 factors and to make adequate preparations, then the more aggressive that s/he is likely going to be able to be... and surely the devil is in the details and it can take a long time to make sure that you are adequately preparing for both regular expenses and emergency expenses and sufficiently trajectoring that out for an adequate period of time to really be able to assess how aggressive you can be without going beyond what you should be doing (which is also known as gambling.. there is a bit of a sliding scale.. and also a bit of a unclearness in terms of when you have crossed over the line which means that you might not know that you crossed over the line until it is too late).


Trying to make up for losses and then adding more risk in order to make up for losses is not a good mental or financial framework. because strategies should be made in ways that do not devolve into gambling.. even if you might have made a big loss.. I think that another name for continuing to double down is Martingale betting.. so surely sometimes it does work, but sometimes it gets to become so big that there is no way to recover from it... or maybe the losses become so great that it takes years to recover, even though there was no real reason to be taking the risks in the first place, but then when the mistakes are made they just keep doubling and doubling and doubling.. and sometimes it ends up working and other times, it ends up with a forced stop..and having to start from a reckt position.. which might mean never recovering or perhaps taking several years to recover... depending on how soon that the person might have decided to give up rather than keeping on going.

I think it it quite common that either people do not have enough because they failed to plan and to take actions and maybe even they were too busy gambling rather than investing and believing that their gambling amounted to a kind of investment, and then it did not end up paying off.

Sure sometimes they might be to blame, but sometimes they might have some misfortunes too... so there can be a lot of reasons that people might feel that they are "starting" or "starting over" at a very late age.

Sometimes they are busy having fun and going on vacations and they do not really realize how the time will end up slipping away from them, and then one day they wake up and they realize that they have only saved $10k, even though they have a lifestyle that requires around $100k per year, and so they have to do some serious thinking about how they might need to make progress towards getting where they should have had been.


Those seem to be two different topics.  One topic is NOT having enough of an investment portfolio and by using traditional measures of equities, property, commodities, bonds and/or cash or cash equivalents.   And then another question is being new to bitcoin, which seems to be way less unusual, especially since less than 1% of the world population has any kind of stake in bitcoin, so even with the group who have bitcoin, there may be quite a few that do not even have any kind of significant and/or meaningful amount of bitcoin.. so maybe the guy who wakes up at 50 or 55 years old realizes that he ONLY has around $10k saved up, and maybe he only owns $500 worth of bitcoin, and that is even being charitable to speculate that any average joe would own any bitcoin at all.. the best presumption is that 99% do not own any and some of those 99% believe that they know what bitcoin is, but they likely do not know what it is because if they knew what it was, they would not be a no coiner, but they might be a low coiner.


You can ONLY enjoy or even stop working if you have prepared in advance, and there really are not that many people who can stop working before they are 50-ish and many people have difficulties stopping working when they get into their early 60s.  It is not necessarily easy to get to a point that you can stop working... especially early (meaning prior to the time in which some of the paid into government benefits start to be available).. so even if the various benefits might start to be available, there still may well be reasons (and/or a lot of benefits) to having a variety of ways to supplement benefits without necessarily having to sell your own personal residence or having to size down your residence for financial rather than convenience reasons.

Many people in the USA don't have too much saved but if they do, the main things that they have would be 1) property (such as a personal residence), 2) something like a 401k plan, 3) maybe if they are lucky a pension... and 4) some kind of a government benefit plan - such as social security.    So if they have other investments outside of those four potential cash flow sources, then they might be able to supplement those, but a lot of people do not even have those main 4.. and maybe because of their lack of investing in various categories, they often might fall back on the 4th category, but if some people have been working informally or not paying into such government programs through their own businesses, then they also might have fucked themselves by not contributing into it and when it comes time for the benefit they are either ineligible or the amount that they receive might only be 20% or less than the income that they had been previously earning in their working years...and maybe they were not even really making much of anything either because they were working in the informal economy or off of the books.


When it comes to investing, time tends to be your friend.  When you have a lot of time, then you should be able to invest relatively small amounts over the long term and then just build up the amount that you have, so you will not always know the consequences of your failures/refusals to adequately prepare until it comes time to start to draw the benefits and to see that you do not have anything...so their surely are young people who are just as dumb as old people who have not saved up, but they might not have realized the consequences until they figure out that they either do not want to work or that they cannot work and then that might be where the rubber hits the road as far as their abilities to actually stop working and still be able to maintain a standard of living that is sufficiently comfortable and even sustainable...even having savings in a retirement might not save anyone if they draw down the principle too fast.  They should be attempting to mostly live off the interest rather than the principle and not even those kinds of concepts are clear to people without consulting with an expert, even though most of us should know those kinds of basics.. but many people do not know that kind of information.


Overall I have the sense that they don't really need help since... it's too late by the time they get old if they have fucked up then they are limited in what they can do. .. but sure I agree that they need to try to figure something out so that they do not squander whatever they do happen to have at that time.

And, yeah, sure they might need some help to manage whatever they do have left so that they do not end up squandering away whatever that they do have.. so maybe I am ending up agreeing with you about their need for help that would have been much better to try to get sorted out way sooner.. while they still have an income coming in (perhaps while they are still in their working years) rather than when their cashflow sources are drying up.


If someone is in a totally fucked up situation, their amount of bitcoin might need to be pretty limited if they don't have a lot of margin, and so their investment into bitcoin might end up taking a real small size, and it might not even be a good thing to invest into if they are barely making ends meet, but sure if they have some extra and they have a 4-10 year time horizon that they believe that they are still going to be living, then sure the can buy into bitcoin with some of their discretionary income so long as they also make sure that their emergency fund and their other kinds of ways to cover their expenses is largely going to be covered by their projected income.

Maybe we are kind of saying the same thing.. but with any investment into a volatile asset, such as bitcoin, it is better to figure out your position size based on how much you might need the cash, and if you have strong cashflows, then you have more cushion as compared with someone who both has week cashflows but also potential circumstances in which anything that s/he does have saved may well need to be somewhat more liquid and not overly volatile and bitcoin meets the liquid angle but not the low volatility angle.

Since technically, the "relatively" long story that I told was within an alternate universe, it was also in another language which is not easy to describe in English, but yeah.. essentially you are describing the matter lo sufficientemente accurately.  ¡Basta!

I hate to admit it.

So in the post you cited, I am largely recommending that forum members (whether newbies or otherwise) need to spend some time UPping their "wall of text" game.  

And, so add some meat.  Flesh it out.  Give us a few personal details.  Take the long route.  Elaborate.  Try to say what you are going to say in a descriptive kind of way.  Maybe provide some references (surely optional).  Tell us the color of the jacket and that it had holes in two of its pockets rather than just saying that there was a jacket involved.  

Yes.  Those kinds of suggestions.. since I am hesitant to give advice, I would like to refer to this as providing suggestions.

Hey.. I know some members are way better than me, and some of the members will format their walls of text, divide the walls of text into subplots and themes and even provide citations, and surely even though that's better, "we" do not necessarily strive to have the perfect become the enemy of the good.  

Do we?  


Do we?



DDDdddddddooooooooo WE?


Maybe that's "royal we?"  Didn't mean to harass uie-pooie too much with that final question.. .......................



.........................or did I?

TMI  - but quoted you anyhow.. because you only live once.... and who-ie poo-ie would not want to know these kinds of details about Phil?


At this particular moment, right around 182.68176836 BTC - give or take 10-100 million satoshis

wait, wait, wait..

We need to consider how fast you act - and assuming no fees. .

oh wait, wait, wait .. maybe with that no fee assumption I negated my own proclamations.. and we might have to give or take 300 million satoshis?


maybe we can try to presume a search for lower fees or even a pacing of the purchases could end up causing me to change my give or take to 1 billion satoshis..

so wait, wait, wait..


we probably have to give or take 1-2 billion satoshis depending on the definition of "buying now", and whether you are feeling lucky punk?

I still see the snapshot image in the OP.. but if you were to have had chosen to delete it for the purposes of privacy and/or privacy related precautions, then hopefully any member who had cited that post with that image would also be willing to delete it.. but if you have not yet deleted it, then they might not delete it. ..and they might need to receive a request in order to delete it, since they might not delete it on their own (or even come back to this thread and/or realize that you deleted the image, if you end up choosing to delete the image).   

By the way, if you had noticed in my earlier post, I am not even necessarily against the idea that you chose to include the image or that you would have provided some kind of description of what you did, yet sometimes it is good to include some waffling and/or plausible deniability.. which would not mean that you are not being honest, even if you might be not disclosing exact specifics.. that seems to be shown in something like an image like that.

Usually I try not to cite another member's post with potentially sensitive personal details, but even I am guilty of citing such posts when I recognize the problematic nature of some of the personal details that they had post, and in that regard, we cannot always be able to or even have to, protect members from their own chosen disclosures... as long as we are not engaging in such citing of their posts for malicious reasons (which also is not always clear regarding how malicious any of us might be without even necessarily realizing it.. even though general definitions of maliciousness imply that there is already a knowing/intentional kind of desire for bad results built in to the action).

My personal posting style does tend to attempt to quote portions of posts that I am discussing in order to provide a proper context, and also sometimes, I am worried about my own post being read out of context if I do not cite the relevant portions of the other person's post that I am talking about in my own post.


Yeah.. a 10-year (or longer) investment time horizon may well be reasonable for you, and surely you may also end up retaining several of your assets (including bitcoin) for 30 years or more. .and of course, it can be difficult to plan with too many details that far out into our futures since there can be several things that end up changing our financial, health and/or psychological circumstances with the passage of that much time...

And, at the same time, we may well end up setting up a general trajectory in our late 20s, and then every few years we might revisit both whether we need to tweak the trajectory in small ways or whether there might be some aspects of the trajectory that are in need of more major revisions or even abandonment or addition of other new parts (investments and/or liquidations) into the earlier parts.

Of course there is evidence of their involvement in various aspects of Sam's business, including setting up the business and including Sam's abilities to get contacts/meetings with high ranking people in various political positions.


For the parents to go  to prison or Sam? 

There can be multiple culpable persons and each person should be punished in accordance with their level of culpability, and sure some persons work out cooperation agreements with the government, and other people don't end up getting charges brought against them, and prosecutors do have some discretion regarding who to charge and what to charge, and they are supposed to have some accountability to the public in terms of bringing charges, but sometimes they might not bring charges against certain people whether it is lack of evidence or some other reasons is not always clear without delving into what evidence they actually have and maybe other complicated aspects that might not always be publicly available in terms of whether prosecutors might be failing/refusing to prosecute when they should be prosecuting...

And, I personally have been suggesting that it is my belief that there is enough evidence that Sam's parents should at least be investigated.. even if there might not be enough evidence to bring charges.. I am not sure about the exact level of evidence that is available, but I am also suggesting that there are a lot of pretty strong inferential aspect that seem to show problematic connections including one that that many people bring up regarding the father getting paid $10 million from Sam (or was it from FTX) and then now seems to be using that money to pay for Sam's attorney fees (legal defense).


I agree with you on these parts.

Even though I throw around recommended amounts that are $100 per week and then $10 per week as a fallback position, I am ONLY using those kinds of numbers in a kind of framework in which many people should be able to put together some extra money, and I remember in more than 30 years ago, I was fairly new in my investment journey and I was able to set aside $100 or $200 per month, even though the amount that I made was really low back then, and in some sense I figure that more than 30 years later it should be much easier for people to put aside $100 or $200 per month, because the dollar is ONLY worth around 20-40% as much as it was 30 years ago.. depending upon which products/services you are purchasing.

Nonetheless, we cannot presume that people have disposable income, even though an overwhelming majority of people should be able to put themselves into a place in which they have disposable income, which means that the amount of cash coming in on a monthly basis is greater than their expenses on a monthly basis.

If you do not have disposable income, you should not be investing.  If you do not have disposable income, you should be attempting to put yourself into a position in which you have disposable income in order that you will be able to invest.. and yeah, we see bitcoin as a great place to put such disposable income, yet people still have to get to a position of having it before we presume that they have it, even though sometimes with some tweaks people could get to a place that they have disposable income.

Another problem that a lot of people have is that they enter into a lot of debt that they probably should be attempting to get into order prior to investing, but many times, there can be ways to pay down debt and to invest at the same time, but there are needs to put together plans and to attempt to stick to plans when a person might not outright be in a position in which it is reasonable to invest and they have to juggle around their finances in order to invest when probably they should be placing a high priority on getting their shit together.. .. so I hate to preclude people from doing several things at the same time, as long as they are able to have a plan and to attempt to follow it and have a timeline for making progress on getting themselves to a better and more sound financial/psychological place.


Sure. Once we have our number, we can attempt to be strict about it, especially if we are reasonably within our budget, including having various cushions in place that are suitable/tailored to our situation.


Since bitcoin prices are generally trajectoring UPward in spite of some 2-3 year short-term questions regarding profitability of the DCA strategy, the longer that we have employed DCA, the more that we would currently be in profits, and currently it takes close to 3 years to clearly and unambigously start to be in profits from a strict DCA strategy.  You can play around with the dates on this website, yet I think that the bigger picture does suggest that the longer that you have been in then the better off that you should be so long as you would have followed a strict DCA strategy, and surely people who follow a strict DCA strategy might not even be participating or reading a thread like this, especially since many guys in this thread are figuring out ways to hybrid their DCA strategy or even to abandon DCA in order to employ buying on dips and other strategies that they believe might be able to perform better than a more strict (and arguably mindless) DCA strategy.

I understand that you are talking about bitcoin here (or at least it seems like it), but for some reason you chose to use the word "cryptocurrency" which seems to be quite misleading if you do not attempt to put your assertion into some kind of context.. So why even use the word, except you are trying to imply some kind of broader application regarding whatever you were going to say about bitcoin.. so then a question gets raised about whether you are actually talking about bitcoin or something else? 

I really am not sure.  I was going to say something else about fuck crypto when it comes to knowledge, especially if we are talking about bitcoin because some people get distracted into trying to learn about various crypto when it is merely a distraction, but it may well be helpful to have some kind of a framework, so long as we attempt to know how bitcoin fits into it and give some kind of a starting point to bitcoin in order to understand that a lot of the crypto space is either building on bitcoin or attacking bitcoin or engaged in some kind of affinity scam in regards, to bitcoin, yet at the same time, just because much if it is a waste of time in terms of focus, it does not mean that there is not any value in some of the broader space, as long as it is understood in terms of a more informed context.


This not a bad point either in regards to a distracting angle that comes from get rich quick ideas, and surely with any gambling angle there could be ways to get rich quick scheme with some in and out strategies, so we cannot completely discount the possibilities of actually getting rich quick, or that people are reasonably motivated by get rich quick ideas, even though that get rich quick framework might end up causing them to invest into bitcoin in ways that don't end up working out so well for them. including some people who got in and out of bitcoin and thought that they were geniuses because they made 2x, 5x, 10x or some other great return in terms of dollar value, but then when they look back at their overall investment portfolio performance, they see that they would have been way better off to have played a longer bitcoin game, even if their average cost of BTC might have ended up going up when they end up buying BTC at higher prices that drop in price for extended periods of time.

One more point about knowledge when it comes to bitcoin.  There likely are going to be a variety of reasons that people come into bitcoin and get interested in bitcoin, and the point in which bitcoin sufficiently resonates for them is likely going to be different for different people in terms at which point they might be considering bitcoin to be more of a long term play rather than expecting positive results in the short-term, and some people take way longer than others in terms of even being able to understand bitcoin in a way that they have confidence in its longer term investment thesis, versus maybe considering bitcoin in terms of market sentiment or momentum or its connection to other macro asset (such as having ideas about how bitcoin is correlated, when it likely is not as correlated as they believe.. but that still goes to how bitcoin is understood and whether bitcoin is understood).

Surely, I am not suggesting that wide knowledge of bitcoin is needed prior to investing into it, even though surely it is helpful to have some kind of a meaningful basis that motivates an investment thesis or how to invest into bitcoin in a way that is suitable to the person. so having knowledge about bitcoin is only one of the components apart from having knowledge about ones own financial and psychological circumstances, and perhaps it bears repeating what kinds of knowledge is helpful, but it is surely not necessarily that anyone perfects each of the areas of knowledge even if s/he has more information that is relevant to certain areas of knowledge..... and so here it is:

When you invest into bitcoin, at minimum you should be attempting to develop knowledge about:

1)   your cashflow,

2)   how much bitcoin you have already accumulated,

3)   your other investments (including cash reserves),

4)   your view of bitcoin as compared with other investments,

5)   your timeline,

6)   your risk tolerance,

7)   your time, skills, goals (investment/lifestyle targets, which includes figuring out the extent that you are in BTC accumulation, maintenance or liquidation stage),

8 )   your abilities to strategize, plan, research and learn along the way including tweaking strategies from time to time,

9)   your considering your time, your abilities and whether to trade, reallocate from time to time, to use of leverage and/or to use financial instruments.

These are ongoing areas in which anyone should be working upon without necessarily concluding that they need to perfect all of them or even to perfect any one category prior to being ready to start investing into bitcoin.. whether that is investing with their time, their energies and/or their finances.

Then you admit it (since it has been determined to be a mirror image).... it's you.

Hi Phil.     #nohomo


Too bad that you don't own any cornz.

If you were to own some cornz, then perhaps, besides being a snot-nosed little dweeb in your grandma's basement, you would be really special... especially in this thread in which we are talking about such cornz.

I don't really disagree with anything that you are saying, yet still some people who start investing late in life don't really have anything in their investment portfolio and they are just getting started, albeit late.

The timeline that someone has may also have to do with their other investments, and surely the cashflows from some investments might come available at various points in life, and surely there could be some cashflows drying up (or not sufficiently keeping up with inflation) and other cashflows coming available in terms of 401ks and other kinds of retirement funds that come available in various kinds of ways, whether lump sums or the employment of withdrawal parameters.

Maybe in the end I am not even really disagreeing about your ideas of being able to invest into bitcoin even at a late age, so in that regard I would not even presume that the investing into bitcoin would stop at 65. even though there are overall presumptions about needs that older folks are generally going to have to want to have various aspects of their investments that are more liquid.. and even stable in terms of cash price.  We know that bitcoin is amongst the greatest of liquid assets around the world and likely increasing in its liquidity, but it is not likely to increase in its price stability and likely to do the opposite. which many of us have already frequently recognized and appreciated that one of the most likely guaranteed and inevitable things about bitcoin remains its volatility...

so questions about how to invest into bitcoin might not always be about whether to invest, but instead about position size, and many of us likely would hope that our position size in regards to bitcoin is becoming more stable and drawn upon in more elderly years rather than being invested into, even though I surely take your point regarding investing into bitcoin late in life and also in terms of someone who might not already have exposure to bitcoin late in life versus someone who may have already had several years of being invested into bitcoin.. there would be certain desires to be ahead of the game in terms of bitcoin by the time any of us is getting into his/her later years..so let's say 65 and beyond as you mentioned.

Personally, I get the sense that OP is on the right track in spite of a seemingly overwhelming number of members responding and telling OP that he is fucking up by jumping into bitcoin too soon.

There is a hurry in bitcoin to get the fuck started.

The reason that we have ONLY less than 1% of the world's population investing into bitcoin is because the overwhelming majority of the world either does not know what bitcoin is or they think that they know what it is and have failed/refused to take any action.

OP did the right thing by taking action, even if he admits that he is still learning, but he's got several of the basics right already.  He figured out some kind of an amount that is reasonable for him, which is taking part of his income stream that he believes that he does not need, and he also thinks that he will be investing around 10% of his income and for 10 years or longer. 

What other perfect case for getting the fuck started do we need?  Op is going to get started in a modest way and he is going to learn and he is going to be ahead of 99% of the rest of the world, and I am not even sure if he is being too wimpy or too aggressive in his bitcoin investment amount, because he is in the best place to make those kinds of decisions, and he has explained his approach pretty well.. at least outlined what his approach is and that he is willing to learn more.

Sure, his opening post had seemed to be a bit overly exciting, and so likely he has to make sure that he does not allow his emotions to get in  the way of his investment approach, but shouldn't any of us get excited by both learning about bitcoin and getting started with a relatively modest approach that he says that he is going to try to continue to follow and to learn along the way.

Regarding his choice to share his actual purchase amount (quantity of BTC), that is not completely irrelevant, and many of us have made several of those kinds of disclosures over the years, and sure it probably is not really necessary for him to provide a screen shot or to even argue with other members about how there is already so much information out there, so why not put some more out there, even though in the end, it is within his discretion how to frame his discussion and his personal disclosures, and maybe it would have been better for him to describe with a bit more vagueness, which is what a lot of us have learned to do over the years. 

Sometimes we speak in terms of a range or in terms of hypotheticals, which are all great ways to attempt to employ some plausible deniability... because sometimes forum members could end up being found out and some of their transaction could be linked.. yet remember back in the good ole days when a lot of members were sharing these various kinds of transactional information, but many of us have stopped doing that because it seems to be that we learned that it can be problematic to have too many pieces of information out there.. even though there is still some information and some members still do share quite bit more than others, and maybe some of those members may have ended up getting themselves into trouble with some of that oversharing... so sometimes we don't necessarily know what we do not know, so likely OP should at least attempt to consider the extent to which he wants to retain some plausible deniability and maybe just say that he bought a certain amount rather than showing a redacted picture of it.

It seems that you are getting DCA mixed up with other kinds of investing (such as lump sum investing), because DCA overcomes each of those items in your list because once you get started, then DCA makes it easy to overcome each of the items, because all you need to do is pick an amount.. $100 per week set it and forget it..... and if you think that $100 per week would cramp your lifestyle too much, a different amount could be chosen.

Of course, there is a need to both set up the DCA and there is a need to figure out what the amount is going to be, but there are ways to do minimal levels of work.. and then just let the investment strategy ride for several years, and sure maybe after a few years, there might be some needs to look at how the investment is doing and then to reassess whether further actions might be needed, and if the amount is starting to add up to a lot, then having stake in the game may well motivate further activism in regards to the investment.

We are not at the punishment stage yet and sure Sam yet been found guilty, so he has rights to defend himself, and maybe there is more tolerance for not feeling guilty or showing remorse before being convicted (presuming that he is going to end up getting convicted of some of the allegations), yet I get the sense that mentality (if his claims of innocence and sweetness does not simmer down a bit), that way of thinking and speaking out likely will end up getting him worse punishment, because if he does not have any remorse, then it is less likely anyone whether judge or jury is going to feel that he deserves a break... but yeah, hey, maybe I am jumping ahead of myself and he has rights to proclaim himself as innocent until some point that he decides that he has lost and either needs to enter a settlement or if he gets a judgement against himself.

I wonder if his parents feel remorse about their involvement?  or alternatively about their having had raised such a psycho kid?  I hear that they are similar kinds of personalities and philosophies... and maybe we are hearing exaggerations of how Sam is similar to his parents because we don't really know his parents too much even there are some discussions of them.

Mom and Dad are still staying out of jail, and that might be part of the important story. which seems to not be too good of a reflection upon our justice system.

Part of the asymmetric upside nature of bitcoin means that you do not necessarily have to invest a lot in order to potentially profit a lot, which likely means that you should invest reasonably and try NOT to lose your bitcoin over time, and you can choose your own level of aggressiveness that you choose to be in accordance with your BTC allocation/investment amounts.


Each person has to figure out his own allocation, and I use $10 to $100 per week as an example of an amount that could work in order to attempt to make progress, but in the end, if someone is figuring out how much money s/he has available for investing, and s/he might consider that putting aside 10% for bitcoin investing, then it could take 10 years to invest 1 years worth of salary, and at the same time, whether that investment grows or not over the 10 years might help to inform such person about whether s/he is investing aggressively enough or whether s/he is allocating to the right kinds of assets, whether bitcoin or other assets or other ways of managing his/her investment portfolio.


Usually the standards for emergency fund would be 3-6 months, and there could be separate kinds of buckets for various kinds of expenses, but emergency fund is something that is not really expected too.. of course, you could go up to a year, but that might be a bit too much.. depending on your circumstances.  

Another thing is projecting out your cashflow and expenses, and you can go out 18-24 months or longer, but how far you go out may well relate to how complicated your cashflow expectations, yet the cashflow versus expenses of the next few months are still going to be much more important to have good understandings about as compared to those that go out further.

That meme kind of looks like phil...

#justsaying

I don't think that anyone should feel bad about taking a long time to build up a significant stash of BTC or even any kind of investment that they make, and I had already mentioned that many people are likely going to take longer than 10 years to merely get up to having had accumulated 1 year's salary (even if you save/invest 10% of your income per year).

Accordingly, the earliest of years likely feel like you are not getting anywhere and they can be stressful, especially if you might feel that you are struggling to make sure that you invest enough and while at the same time not overdoing it and fucking things up so that you end up losing everything that you invested.  A lot of people fuck up so much that they end up gambling rather than investing, and with gambling, there might be a lot of luck until one day the market moves against you, and you are fucked (having to start over from the beginning is not a good place to be if you had been spending 3-8 years building up your investment portfolio and then if you take too many chances, then you end up losing your principle which tends to be quite difficult to build back.

Even older (or longer term) investors sometimes will feel that their investment portfolio is not moving, but if they ar not fucking up too much, they can look back at their history and they can see that their networth and their portfolio is growing with the passage of time (hopefully that is the case).


You should not rush beyond your capabilities, so if you are having trouble investing between $10 to $100 per week, then maybe you either have to figure out ways to increase your cashflow or to decrease your expenses.. and at the same time, of course continue to have a decently good sized emergency cushion so that you can have a large amount of confidence that you will never need to use your bitcoin for emergencies (in other words your bitcoin should not be part of what you believe to be your emergency fund.. because you should ONLY be selling your BTC at a time that is completely at your own choosing. not because you are forced into such position.. and perhaps forced into such position due to inadequate/insufficient planning).


I am surely not saying that any of this is easy because worse case scenarios can go lower than expected and they can also go longer than expected.. so once you are in the shitty situation, you might have to do things that you did not want to do or expect to do, but it still seems to be a lack of preparation in terms of preparing for worse case scenarios and even preparing a little beyond worse case scenarios.. and even more experienced investors (or persons who have built up greater levels of emergency funds and wealth) will sometimes get caught off guard by having their assets invested into things that they should not have had.

And, yeah for normie plebs, the situation could be even worse because normie plebs might well already NOT have hardly any financial (or psychological cushion), and hopefully learning how to invest helps you in order to figure out how much preparations you need to make... and there might be some people who never are recover from disasters that happen to them, and they may well be stuck being poor and impoverished forever.. so part of any attempt is to be able to get to a position that you are able to invest, and if your personal finances are so bad that you are so far under water that you do not have any discretionary income, then you have to take care of those emergencies first.. and get to a point in which you actually have discretionary income that you are able to invest.. and perhaps build up your emergency funds at the same time.


Surely there is some discretion in terms of whether you should use up the whole $200 to $300 during the weeks that it comes in, especially if you might have several weeks in which it does not come in, and maybe you can kind of anticipate how often your jobs are going to be steady and how often you are going to need to float upon your past wages.

I don't know the exact answer, but there does seem to be some potential value towards spreading out your amounts rather than investing them right away when the come in, so that you always have some amount available that you could spend on bitcoin buys.

So it could be possible that you set up $50 to $100 per week no matter what, and if your income for some of those weeks end up being higher, you put that into your reserve funds.. so that you are able to go a certain amount of time with out having any extra funds, and if you feel that you should have your reserve fund prepared for 10 weeks of having to draw from it, then maybe you have to let it build up to $1,000 before you go beyond the $50 to $100 per week allotment... so then if your reserve fund ends up staying above $1k for a long time, then maybe you are then able to increase your weekly to $150 or some other higher amount.   Of course, these are discretionary matters in terms of whether you believe that you are served very well from just spending it right away or trying to be a bit more strategic about your bitcoin purchases (which may or may not be a valuable use of your time).


Yep.  We have to be careful when we are dipping into funds that have already been set aside for other purposes, and so there may or may not be strict guidelines on these kinds of discretionary matters, but if we end up depleting too many funds without really appreciating what they were meant for and we have assigned shitty probabilities in regards to things that could happen, we may well end up recking ourselves if we go too far with some of these dipping into funds matters.

I personally tend to think that none of these matters are absolutes, but there may be thresholds over which guys (and gal) end up crossing that really don't come off as being either prudent or reasonable, and then they end up getting themselves into a pickle because they left their emergency fund with $300 and a truly foreseeable $1k expense ends up coming up (which negative outcomes ends up showing them that they were engaging in too much gambling, and maybe it had been working out for them in the past, but this time, they got bit in the ass) and they may put themselves into a pickle that could take them 6 months to a year to recover, when they would not have had been damaged at all if they had kept their emergency fund up to a sufficient size/amount.

I think that whether 10 years investing into bitcoin is enough depends upon from where you are starting.  When I got into bitcoin, in 2013, I already had 20 years of investing into traditional markets, so then my bitcoin holdings became a supplement (or even a hedge) to my other investments that included equities, property, bonds, cash (or cash equivalents) and some exposure to commodities, even though bitcoin largely became my main commodity exposure since my investments were relatively weak in the commodity arena.

I doubt that it is smart for anyone to be thinking that they are getting in and out of bitcoin, since bitcoin seems to be a life time investment, even though there may be ways to manage (and maintain) your bitcoin holdings once you reach a level of BTC holdings that satisfy you, whether that is 2-5x your annual income (expenses) or maybe it is a higher amount while keeping in mind that if you get to 20x to 30x of your annual income in your investment portfolio, then you are likely getting into entry-level fuck you status, but the mere fact that you might be getting into entry-level fuck you status should not mean that you sell all of your various holdings rather than manage them and maybe even figure out ways to start spending them, if you are at that stage of your life when your investment portfolio starts to get into entry-level fuck you status... sure there are some people that will still want to continue to grow their investments, and age (and maybe family status) would surely factor into those kinds of considerations.


Putting the DCA method into practice and applying it to your own circumstances seems to be the real test of both understanding it theoretically and personally experiencing it in such a way that you tweak it and tailor it to your own personal circumstances.


That's up to you regarding how aggressive that you feel that you need to be for your own circumstances.  I know that between 2014 or so and 2020, I largely just recommended that guys get off zero and invest $10 per week into bitcoin; however, it seems that in order to even get comparable results, people in the west should be trying to get to $100 per week. and sure some folks could even do more, but $100 per week seems to be sufficiently aggressive without necessarily overdoing it for normies in the west.. but if you are not in the west and you are already starting with $12-$25 per week, you have to figure out your own level of aggressiveness and whether you believe that investing into bitcoin is a good use of your cash for you... especially since there are no guarantees that BTC will perform well.. so hopefully you are not depriving yourself too much.. . but again, those are your balancing choices.


One of the good things about spreadsheets is that you do not necessarily need to keep the funds in separate wallets (or separate accounts within a wallet) in order to keep track of different purchases that you had made - even though as you suggested, there might be a little more ease to keep track if the funds are separate.

I have used spreadsheets in a variety of ways to keep track of purchases, but also to project out various kinds of BTC price performance scenarios and to see how my behaviors might impact my BTC holdings if certain BTC price scenarios were to play out (so long as I followed the plan).  

At one point, in mid-to late 2015, I had divided my BTC into at least three overlapping categories in order to guid myself in terms of how to treat my BTC holdings, so there can be some fun (and practicality) in that.  The categories were:

1)  all of the BTC that I bought from late 2014 until then (mid-2015) (average cost of $250 ish)

2)  all of the BTC that I bought from June 2014 until then (mid-2015) (average cost of $330 ish)

3) all of the BTC that I bought from the beginning late 2013 until then (mid-2015) (average cost of $520 ish)

These were moving targets, but they guided me in terms of my own authorizing myself for what I could do.  The categories were overlapping due to my own reasons, yet there could be reason like you suggested to categorize the BTC in other ways including trying to figure out if average cost per BTC ended up being affected in any meaningful and substantial ways based on my own employment of various different kinds of BTC accumulation strategies.  I am not sure how important that question is, except maybe to guide you if you believe it might contribute to your changing your BTC accumulation strategies (or what you recommend others to do) based on your own results.


I don't really like the idea of buying daily if you are not buying very much, unless you are able to buy without much if any fees.  Sometimes, you could have a cash account that builds up and then you send it to the exchange once a month or so, but also you have cash on the exchange that you would use so that you are not having to continue to submit small amounts.. and of course, some of the concerns about fees and/or sending a lot of small transactions (or attempting to minimize that) might have to do with personal circumstances, and I do recall that between 2013 and 2015 I was able to find ways in which I hardly paid any fees for a lot of my BTC purchases, but then sometimes the no fee options disappeared and sometimes it may be better to spend the fees, so for example if you are able to have fees that are truly just based on percentages, then it may well not matter very much if you buy $5 at a time or $100 at at time, because the purchases are percentage based... so then in those circumstances, you may well be o.k to engage in BTC purchases as soon as your cash comes in, even if you have small amounts coming in at each time (daily or even hourly making determinations how much to hold and when to wait to make purchases, whether to market buy or to set a limited buy order that might have lower fees than market buying usually has higher fees than the limited order fees.)

Ps.  I realized one point that I left out is in regards to having a whole lot of small UTXOs, and that can become problematic, so sometimes if you are buying small amounts and then moving them off of the exchange too early, then you will end up with a whole hell of a lot of small UTXOs, and sure maybe it is not necessary to combine your UTXOs, and I can remember in 2014-2016, many times people would be talking in terms of having 1-10 BTC in each UTXO, and now days, that seems like way too much money to have in each UTXO, so the ongoing questions regarding how much value to keep in each UTXO will likely vary with the passage of time, and sometimes a $100 to $500 UTXO might end up going up in value by 10x or even 50x by the time you  spend it, so at that time, the UTXO will not necessarily continue to seem to be too small.

I will admit that I have made some mistakes with UTXO management, and it is not necessarily easy to know in advance what might be good (reasonable/practical) amounts of  value to keep in each UTXO and whether there may or may not be value in terms of combining (or keeping separate) some UTXO from other kinds of UTXOs, and one of the things that I had started to do was to attempt to keep similar kinds of transactions in the same wallet (or account) even though I might still keep the UTXOs (or the bitcoin addresses) separate within the accounts, but one account might end up having 10 or more UTXOs and I try to keep track of from where they came but there can be burdens with these kinds of things including questions about whether someone might see labels that you might put on them... and then ruin some of your privacy.