Since when did Phil deserve fairness?  hahahahaha

It seems to this here cat that you are playing favorites, and it also seems to yours truly that you are "accepting" that Philly Willy can be off by a mere $5.64 billion, and still be in the ballpark of koreck.

Yep.  Those are the kinds of calculations that shitcoiners do, instead of staying focused.. .but yeah, to stick to the 80/20 rule, if they had a $10k budget and choose to invest $500 into each of their chosen shitcoins, then they would ONLY be able to invest into 4 shitcoins without going over their 20% cap. .. so then they will conclude that they have to pick more coins, and then they end up having difficulties staying focused on bitcoin..

Of course another thing is that there should be some kind of conscientious due diligence in trying to figure out which shitcoins to research into and then to invest and then to watch them and to figure out various strategies in regards to each coin, including what kinds of events might trigger needs to take action, such as selling some or all of their coin.  Sure, we can suppose that it could be fun to learn about some of the various shitcoin projects and to watch them... and maybe they will figure out some kind of a system that works for them.  Perhaps?


That is part of the reason that they are not going to be able to even stick with a 80/20 rule unless they flip it, and even then it can get so tempting to reduce bitcoin further because once they go down the diluting of their investment portfolio, there are always more and more new shitcoins demanding some of that allocation.

My maths must be different from your maths.

Here's my proofs of work:

I get $31.64 Billion.  (but hey what is a $5.64 billion difference between friends?)

Here is how it can be done:

$200k / $29,582 = 6.76

6.76 x $4.68 billion = $31.64 billion


You believe that MSTR needs to sell in order that either they or their shareholders would be able to profit? 

That's interesting.

For sure, these issues are getting worse and even more murky in regards to the government's cooptation of private systems and even people with private systems are getting the rug pulled from under them without even knowing that their data is getting used by governments without a warrant and it may well even be questionable if they have probable cause in some cases that they get access to private security cameras that are using third parties for their data storage.

It seems that in some cases, the courts (or maybe even the people need to rebel) need to rule that state action is involved when governments are purchasing and/or otherwise getting data from third parties without warrants or with shoddy procedures that allow them too much access to too much private information (cameras and other kinds of data being held by supposed third parties).

Even though I think that 20% is too much to allow to be invested into shitcoins (10% at most into shitcoins.. but hey we can agree to disagree), it is at least some kind of a recognition that an overwhelming majority should be in bitcoin.. ...

Over the years, I have surely seen so many shitcoiners who have no bitcoin or they might have only a 10% to 20% allocation to bitcoin.. which seems completely lacking in knowledge in regards to what bitcoin is....

By the way, don't get me wrong, it is helpful for anyone to think through what are there various allocations and to consider why they allocating the amounts that they are.. including considering their timeline for various investments, so there surely could be some reasonable justifications that would allow people to conclude to take more risks .. which does end up in decisions to ONLY have smaller amounts of the crypto-investments allocated to bitcoin.. but then of course, we have our broader investment portfolio too..

At the end of 2014, after I had already been in bitcoin for a year, I had considered that the amount that I invested in bitcoin would be 10% of my overall investment portfolio, but after March 2020, I started to recommend 1-25% to be allocated to bitcoin, and of course, my own investment in bitcoin ended up being around 13.5% in late 2015, but that grew to nearly 90% as compared with my other investments in 2017 and then shrunk back to 45%-ish and then is currently around 70%.. so I am not even necessarily suggesting the necessity for any reallocations of a winning asset.. so when we consider allocations within our overall investment portfolio versus allocations within crypto (bitcoin versus shitcoins), those are two separate questions, but they still may well have real world ramifications, including that there may be a large number of folks who do not hardly have any investments besides "crypto" which is potentially problematic, but also screwing up their own concepts of how diversification should be considered and put into practice in regards to their own financial/psychological circumstances and/or their investment(gambling) goals.

You and I are using the term shitcoin and altcoin differently.  I consider anything that is not bitcoin (that has its own token) to be a shitcoin.. so from my consideration altcoin and shitcoin is the same thing... if you are trying to differentiate between how shitty or not are various shitcoins based on their price performance or some other broadly applicable principles, you are likely just getting yourself into trouble.. ..

So if you actually end up studying and largely understanding the investment thesis for bitcoin, then you can consider the extent to which any shitcoin might be providing some potential value, rathet than being a kind of temporary scam... and so sure, it is possible and even likely that there are some shitcoins that are not directly scamming and are providing some utility, so in that regard, if you waste your time studying that non-sense and you happen to find one or more that is worth putting some value into, then you will still need to temper your investment..

In the end, there is a presumption that shitcoins/altcoins are not providing much or any value or worthy of investment, and so you have to overcome that presumption in order to justify investing into them in any kind of meaningful way beyond short term pumpamentals (which is also a questionable reason to get into a project, but not an unreasonable reason if you have good information and/or confidence regarding short term pumpamentals.. which again is a different reason for getting into such coins as compared with bitcoin's long term investment thesis,  even though sometimes bitcoin will also continue to go through short-term pumping periods).


I don't really disagree with you, but you are not really saying much of anything here.. except that bitcoin is the best because everyone believes it is best, and so sure there might be some truth to that, but bitcoin is best based on the way that it is designed and its various network effects.  Consider Trace Mayer's seven network effects. 

Also bitcoin is best in part because it would take something in the order of a 10x improvement over BTC for some kind of a coin to take over bitcoin, and for example, some people cannot figure out bitcoin's relationship to gold, and so there are many people who are confused about bitcoin versus gold, but  part of the reason that bitcoin is gaining on gold's market share is because bitcoin is way more than 10x better than gold, and perhaps even in the neighborhood of 1,000x better than gold. So, sure it could take another 50 to 200 years for the market to end up recognizing bitcoin for it's 1,000x better value than gold, and so there are a lot of folks who cannot recognize bitcoin's superiority to gold (including the 1,000x angle), and so some people will end up being more correct than others in terms of their assessment of value but even if we assess value, the timeline could still take a very long time to play out.


I doubt that you are correct on this point.  Shitcoins could outperform bitcoin for a long time.. so I would not count on the fact that shitcoins might not pump and even end up outperforming bitcoin for considerable amounts of time.  I don't know whether such outperformance is going to happen, but I am not going to invest into those shitty scams merely because there are a bunch of dumb twats pumping their nonsense smoke and screen crap, whether we are referring to ethereum or some other shitcoins.  We could even get nation states pumping that nonsense.. so even if they might cause crap to get pumped (just like fiat is pumped and able to retain value) that still does not take away from bitcoin's investment thesis.. so you have to choose whether or not to invest at all in the crap (that could pump higher than bitcoin).

You likely know the expression: "market's can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent," so it is up to you if you get lured into shitty project because of their pumpening potentials (including various shitcoins), and sure of course, even with bitcoin, you should be figuring out your own position size based on the facts that a lot of weird things can end up happening that cause bitcoin prices to be suppressed lower than expected and for longer than expected.. .You should not be considering that it is inevitable that bitcoin will pump or that shitcoins will not pump.. that seems like a gambling kind of approach if you are not sufficiently/adequately preparing for either direction (and a variety of outcomes, even crazy ones).


It can take a real long time to make up for some of the losses that happen, so when any of us is looking at our investment portfolio, we have to be careful about not losing our principle.  So we should be figuring out ways to establish our various position sizes in such ways that we are not putting our principle at risk.

Yes, I know easier said than done.. but first of all figuring out how much we are going to invest into BTC or other investments, such as 10% of our salary (or some other reasonable amount that allows us to continue to live a reasonable lifestyle). .and then once we have figured out our budget then we have to figure out what to invest into..  If you are a brand new investor, then there does not seem to be anything wrong with putting all or most of your 10% amount into bitcoin until you reach a certain level of 20% to 50% of your annual salary or some other number that you believe to be reasonable and then at some later point, then figure out how to diversify.. and most likely not shitcoins but instead property, equities, commodities, bonds, and cash/cash equivalents... and sure if you cannot resist getting involved in various shitcoins, then restrict your investment into them to no more than 10% of the size of your bitcoin investment.. unless you figure out some angle that is actually good information about some project that you are going to invest into and to go beyond 10% of ther size of your bitcoin investment.

Anyhow, the point is that many times, it does take a long time to build back principle when you end up losing a lot of it (or even all of it) because you got to greedy and/or you failed to limit your position size based on how much risk you were entering into.

You are wanting to go back to the ever-repeated BIG blocker arguments that became popular in 2016 and maybe still lingering - a kind of expectation that everyone should be able to have free or close to free transactions on the main chain?

Certainly, I am not suggesting that everyone can wait, but surely there are ways to attempt to be somewhat strategic with figuring out how much of a rush you are in with regards to your transactions and what kinds of transactions are worth paying the higher fees..

So it seems that the last couple of weeks we had a bout of congestion in which:

1)  10 to 20 sats per vbyte (30¢ to 60¢ as long as it was coming from ONLY 1 address) had chances to confirm within several days to maybe even a week, but could take longer (maybe even a month on the lower end of the range),

2) 20-30 sats per vbyte (60¢ to 90¢) had chances to confirm within an hour but could take a 1-3 days, especially on the lower end of the price range,   

3) 30-60 sats per vbyte (90¢ to $1.80) had pretty decent chances to confirm within ten minutes to an hour, and of course, the higher up on the scale the more likely that your transaction would end up getting into the next block.

Even if we presume someone does not have time to wait, those are not outrageous fees for anyone sending $100 or more, yet of course with smaller value transactions they might become less economical for those who want to get their transactions to go through quickly. 

Sure, we can reasonably presume that several of these kinds of fees are going to become more costly with increased traffic times, yet we can still calculate how much BTC are we moving in order to decide how much it might cost to pay, and it does not seem unreasonable for the fees to go up even 10x during busy periods, and still there would be choices regarding how much value are we sending?  If the fees are up 10x from the ones of the last week, then surely we might choose to increase our lower limits in transactions, so instead of ONLY sending transactions of $100 or more, we might choose to ONLY transact on chain when the transactions are valued at least $1k or more.  We can decide for ourselves based on fees (and what we see as mempool congestion levels - or wallets might be showing/suggesting).

Lightning network does seem to be another plausible release valve for the lower transaction values during those kinds of higher fee times.. even though we have been finding lighting network to not always be very reliable.. so we seem to be in fairly early days for both seeing how the lightning options perform and also verifying that people have lightning options available to them - of course, the more self-autonomous concerned bitcoiners are going to want to make sure that self-custody options are available, but if we are merely talking about saving fees on lower transactions, there might not be any kinds of existential threats to sovereignty if some custodial solutions are being utilized during high congestion periods and if many people still might keep their main bitcoin stashes in various on chain private locations.. so maybe many less rich people might have bitcoin savings that are "ONLY" $1K to $50k in value, so they still would have a lot of sovereignty, even if onchain fees have periods of being high.. and maybe instead of sending their value around on chain every time it reaches $100, they might wait until it is more than $1k before sending it from off-chain (such as lightning network) to onchain locations.. in order to attempt to better strategize the fee situation. 

Oh?  That helps.


You cannot help yourself.

You might need to seek counsel.

#justsaying

It's a misuse of the term diversification, and that is how people get sucked into shitcoins because it is meant to sound like it is normal to diversify into shitcoins - merely because you don't know what is bitcoin and you cannot tell the difference between what is bitcoin and what are shitcoins.

The real idea of smart diversification goes into different kinds of asset classes rather than in the same asset class, and yeah sure if you are dumb and don't know what is bitcoin, then you will be led into false regarding various possibilities of various shitcoins.

Now in terms of gambling rather than investing, then diversifying might make some sense.  Diversify some of your gambling items, but OP has already stated several times that he is not gambling, he is investing and he is doing it for the long term, not the short term, so it does not really make any sense to diversify for the mere sake of it.. especially since you don't even seem to understand the concept of diversification very well.

Another aspect of diversification that can screw up your investment is when you end up diluting, and it could be the case that new investors should not be diluting their investment, and there may well not be any need to add additional assets until maybe your investment portfolio (potentially ONLY starting with bitcoin and cash) gets to be a certain size.. perhaps 20% to 50% of your annual salary, or maybe even a larger number.. which may well depend also on how much discretionary income a person might have.  There are a lot of people who ONLY are able to invest 10% of their annual salary at most, and so at that pace it would take them 10 years to get to a point in which they have invested a whole year's salary, so then it may well depend on how well their investments performed to be able to see if they have more than a whole years worth of income (or living expenses) in their investment portfolio. ..

The mere fact that some people are ONLY able to invest small amounts seems to justify a whole hell of a lot less diversification rather than fucking around with diluting the small amounts that they are actually able to invest (or save).  


Again pushing shitcoins.. Merely because they are at the top does not necessarily convert them into either an investment or within a category that is even close to as good as bitcoin.. so then a question becomes why waste your time, energy and/or money on such distractions?


Fuck shitcoins.. there is no need to practice with them without having a better investment thesis than diversification for the sake of it or they happen to be in the top coins or dumb shit like that.  When investing into shitcoins as contrasted with bitcoin there are more reasons to have to look into the overwhelming crap that is out there trying to act like they are either equal to or better than bitcoin.. so the best is to start out with bitcoin first and no need to study very many details and just get the fuck started with bitcoin and learn along the way... if you are going to fuck around with other coins and or projects, you are going to need to do your homework first because an overwhelming majority are pure nonsense and in need of babysitting and/or getting in and out rather than just buying and forgetting about it for 10 years (which way closer to the case with bitcoin.. being able to invest and forget about it).

You really know my motive for investing that well, or you believe that you have sufficiently summarized my bitcoin investment thesis and how it might have changed over the years?

I believe that I have had somewhat of a consistent bitcoin investment thesis since I got into bitcoin in 2013, yet at the same time, I have learned more and more about bitcoin since getting into bitcoin, so it is difficult to say what I did versus what I would have did or what I would do because in part I have already been in bitcoin, and fairly active in several ways over the last about 9 and 3/4 years... but I am still not sure what this has to do with me.

You challenged that anyone says ETH is a scam is ignorant.. and it seems that you were being quite hyperbolic in that statement.. whether you are correct or not might be another question.

Ever since Ethereum has come into existence it has been a kind of affinity scam in regards to bitcoin, and surely people have made money on it. but the making of money on a scam still does not seem to remove ethereum's scammy history and even including it seemingly ongoing scammy continued existence.

It would be pretty scary to be putting much if any of your value into that crap without merely feeling as if you are gambling rather than investing, even though many people (who I would suggest to be scammers, dumbasses or innocent people caught up in the nonsense.. and perhaps even pre-coiners.. a kind of temporary dumb status) actually do put value into that smoke and mirrors nonsense.


I doubt that I have ever said that, or at least you seem to be devolving into more exaggerations in terms of trying to summarize my position by attacking me rather than really attempting to think through what I might have been saying or what my position might be.

Generally speaking I would prefer to suggest that there is a presumption that anything but bitcoin is a scam.. especially if they have their own token.. or if they are building on some kind of scam that has its own token. Now if they don't have their own token and they are building on bitcoin. then that may well be another story.  I don't claim to be an expert, but I do claim to presume anything trying to act like it is similar to bitcoin or better than bitcoin and has some kind of a token to mostly be a scam, even though surely there could be some utility in terms of some of the shitcoins and even some abilities to transfer value through some of them in kinds of alternative possibilities outside of bitcoin.. so as I mentioned previously, there could be some reasons to hold some of the various shitcoins, ... maybe even up to 10% of various investment assets could be in shitcoins as compared with bitcoin, and sure there could be reasons to go beyond `10%, but I am not going to automatically presume any of that without some kind of a justification, and the burden would be on you to argue some shitcoins to have any kind of value as compared with bitcoin and/or worthy of investing into whether you are talking about the mother asshole of shitcoins (aka ethereum) or some other shticoin or shitcoin variant.


You are trying to paint me as some kind of an extremist... that sounds like bullshit.  I am completely reasonable.. ..and there are likely forum members who are both more informed than me and also more skeptical of shitcoins and the various ways that people get separated from their money (or distracted in their thoughts. or their abilities to better understand bitcoin).


You are within some kind of a reasonable group?  Are you chasing dollar profits?  How do you define profits?    The more you speak, the more lost you sound.


Again, that does not really sound exactly like what I said.. and also I have not really ever claimed that there might be ways to make profits from shitcoins.  Of course there are ways to make profits, and even moreso if you happen to be some kind of an insider who is scamming others or if you have connections with an insider who is scamming others then maybe you will get the information first to be able to pump and dumb your crap.

I would not really characterize those kinds of behaviors  as investing rather than gambling and/or pumping and dumping crap... and of course, you have the right to do whatever you would like.. but it does not sound very accurate to be describing yourself in terms of taking the high road.

The high road likely relates to mostly (if not exclusively) being in bitcoin.. rather than getting distracted too much into shitcoins, and if you happen to get into shitcoins, then hopefully you are not getting more than 10 % into shitcoins without having some kind of a compelling reason to do so that goes beyond mere gambling and/or engaging in various scams, whether you are the scammer yourself or merely following and supporting scammers while proclaiming that they are not scamming..


No one, including yours truly, is saying that you are not able to make profits from being involved in shitty projects.. but it seems quite distracting if you believe that there is some kind of systematic and/or honest way to get involved in the overwhelming majority of that crap, and if you are holding Ethereum up as your supposed virtue coin, then you really sound lost... .. and again, you are sure free to spend your time, your energies and your money however, you like, but coming into various threads and trying to suggest that you are virtuous or that you are doing good work or that anyone claiming ethereum to be a scam is ignorant likely mostly reflects upon your own ignorance and vacuousness rather than some kind of an enlightened position that you seem to be wanting to proclaim that you hold in your support and/or your involvement in shitcoins, including but not limited to ethereum.


If Satoshi did not design Bitcoin to be an investment, then why is it an investment?  You can invest time, energy and/or monetary value into bitcoin, and it seems that bitcoin has various monetary incentives built into it and that is part of the reason that it works so well, even when being attacked.  There are presumptions that are built into bitcoin that it will be attacked, and it is built to be resilient against various kinds of attacks that could take place and that have been taking place, and part of the reasons for bitcoin's resiliences has to do with monetary incentives that are outcome of it's built-in scarcity.

Various shitcoins are just imitators of bitcoin or they are trying to suck off of the bitcoin teat or to hang onto bitcoin's apron string (like bitcoin serving as a security blanket in which the various scams are allowed (or enabled) to exist because bitcoin provides the strongest security of any system (so far) known to man.

So yeah, not only does bitcoin have built in properties to change world financial systems, bitcoin is so disruptive that it ends up purifying and improving all kinds of monetary incentives and your various shitcoin involvement does not really help to bring any kind of clarity to you or anyone else why there is any value in getting involved in that crap.. even if sure you might be able to figure out some short-term angle in which you are able to eek out some short-term value until you get rug pulled.. but hey you are willing to take chances on those kinds of short-term bets, and those are your choices.  No one can rescue you from yourself, except yourself... .you have to figure out if you may well be putting too much time, energy in money into pump and dump crap when you got a pristine asset like bitcoin that is staring you right in the face.

By the way.. don't get me wrong.  I surely do not expect everyone to figure out that bitcoin is the best asset (even though it is), or that shitcoins will cease to exist, or that normies won't get distracted into investing into inferior products, because it is likely that there are going to be millions of new shitcoins in the next 100 years (maybe even in the next 5 years), and there will be many times in which the shitcoins will outperform bitcoin in the short-term.. and there is no real way of NOT seeing that value will continue to flow into bitcoin, but it may well not flow clearly or straightly.. so anyone (and everyone) is free to get distracted into investing into inferior products... and they are also free to invest into bitcoin.. so there is quite a bit of value to anyone who figures out bitcoin to be the place to be spending the overwhelming majority of their time, energies and value.. even if there might be some better short-term places that such time, energies and value could be placed... and it is up to you the extent to which you get distracted into nonsense and how much value you want to put into crap.


Yes.. the better ways of thinking about diversification tends to be across asset category types rather than within the same asset category.. .. and then within the categories, there could be some value if diversifying if the leader is not known, yet within the "crypto asset" category anyone should realize that bitcoin is the only one that really matters, so then if there are desires to diversify, then it should be into other asset categories such as property, equities, commodities (bitcoin could serve as this too), bonds and/or cash/cash equivalents.


Part of the value of the forum is that we do not need to agree, and you are free to make your various arguments and/or counter-arguments (if you have any) and also you should be making up your own mind, as well, regarding whether and how to invest into bitcoin or any other place (including into shitcoins) that you choose to spend your time, energies and value.


I doubt that any turned into shitcoins.  An overwhelming majority (if not all of them?) were already shitcoins from the beginning, but you were happy with them as long as their price was going up.


In terms of investing,  if you do not recognize bitcoin as the leader of the sector, then you likely do not understand bitcoin or the sector.

Now, if you are fucking around with pump and dump and trading, then that is a different set of skills (and or scams) and you can surely profit more in shitcoins, trading and scams than a pure bitcoin approach as long as you play your skills properly and/or you have decent and actionable information that ends up working out for you in those shorter term kinds of plays.


That comment makes no sense.  Bitcoin has not gone away.. so your elusion that some kind of a shitcoin is independent of bitcoin, then you better actually describe which one (examples) you are talking about.


You really are pumping the practicing of a shitcoin strategy. and diversification generally is across asset classes not within the same asset category..   Yeah you can diversify how you gamble too.. and hopefully people are not gambling when they choose their bitcoin allocation.. how they accumulate bitcoin, what their BTC accumulation targets might be and then how they might attempt to maintain their BTC stash once they get it up to their target level.

I imagine if there are 470k transactions pending, then I am going to try to adjust my fee setting to the amount that I think that the transaction will clear in the amount of time that I would like the transaction to go through. 

There are probably several levels of confidence, and if I can try to figure out how the fee system works in bitcoin, then I would try to set my fees in order to attempt to accomplish the level of satisfaction that I would like to get without necessarily pissing off people with whom I am transaction or losing any of my credibility if there either might be a relationship that I am trying to maintain or that I am not trying to unduly cause tarnish on my own reputation.

Of course, with some strangers, I might not give any shits about my reputation - and so then the receiver has to make sure that s/he is protected and does not give over the good or service without some kind of guarantee that the payment has gone through or will go through.

If I am dealing with a complete stranger and there is a timeline for the payment to be received, then likely I am going to set my fees at some percentage above the fees that had been clearing 20% to 50% higher should be good, unless the fee rate is moving around erratically.  Of course, some wallets are better than others at predicting reasonable fees, and surely more and more wallets are allowing the ability to customly set fees.

In my response to this post, I went to look at my 13 sats per vbyte transaction from nearly a week ago, and it is appears that it has cleared within the last 5 hours.. and there looks like there was a bit of a spike down in the pending transactions around the time that mine for 13 sats per vbyte cleared.. so yeah, that one took nearly a week to clear. but there wasn't any rush on it.. and maybe I would not have started to get worried until about mid-October, if it had not yet cleared by that time.

I am not even really opposed to what you are saying, Y3shot, because in theory what you are saying is correct.  However, what you are saying seems a bit patronizing because if we are dealing with adults rather than children, we have to presume some level of knowledge already exists with everyone. there are basic ideas about how much money is coming in versus what are the expenses and whether any money is left.  

Sure, young people probably need to spend a lot of time learning how to manage their money and figuring out how to invest, and what to invest in... but some of the learning comes from putting already existing knowledge to practice and learning along the way, rather than presuming that a lot of big and important things need to be learned about "the secrets of bitcoin" prior to our ability to start to take a stake into it.

The fact of the matter is that bitcoin is complicated as fuck when you come down to it, and so there is ONLY so much that each of us are going to know, so in order to develop an investment thesis, there are not necessarily needs to know everything from the start.


From the context of your post Asuspawer09, I can see that you are talking about bitcoin, so why do you feel some kind of need to substitute the word "cryptocurrency?"  

Are you trying to sound smarter?

Do you believe that strategies in regards to bitcoin are equally applicable to shitcoins? or various distracting and scammy shitcoin projects?

Your conscious and several times use of the term "cryptocurrency" seems to show that you have some reluctance in your own abilities to focus on bitcoin.. because you seem to think that there is something more broad that is going on and being contributed to bitcoin by the various affinity scam projects in the shitcoin space in which you are also giving legitimacy to that crap by using the word crypto rather than focusing on bitcoin in the way that you chose to respond to Ruttoshi.

Actually your several times use of the term cryptocurrency rather than using the word bitcoin (if that might have been what you were talking about?), converted a potentially otherwise good post into "gobble-dee-gook."

Yes.  I did put that linked thread on my list of "threads to get to," so I will be taking a look at the discussion in that thread, and sure it is possible that I might end up changing my mind in terms of what I already stated in my above post.  I surely don't claim to know a lot of technical matters, and sometimes the various projections of what could happen end up being more true than anticipated.

Let's just take the milli-sats rounding off as an example, if a channel closes that is imbalanced, then it seems that if 501 milli-sats belong to Bob and 499 milli-sats belong to charlie, then when the channel closes, bob would end up receiving the sat and charlie would not... so it is still the dividing of 1 sat into sub-units and the resolution of who owns the sat is resolved when the channel closes..

..and sure maybe at some point, on-chain bitcoin will start to recognize more than 8 decimal places in order for that sat rounding to not be necessary.. and if there are some rules that are proposed that end up creating new sats, then it does not seem too likely that those rules will end up being followed absent some changes in the ways that people (nodes) want to think about bitcoin.. and if for some reason people (nodes) might want to recognize some kind of tail-emission, then that surely would not be out of the realm of possibilities even though currently receptivity to the idea of employing tail-emissions in bitcoin does not seem to be the way very many nodes are currently thinking about bitcoin's scarcity and whether or not a tail-emission might become justifiable (and even conscientiously acceptable) at some point in the future.

There is likely an error and even some dangers in thinking if you think that there are any kinds of solid ways to become rich and/or successful more quickly.. so surely having persistence is good and working towards making progress is good, and many times the true value of richness and success takes a long time to play out, including experiencing the value of compounding.

Frequently getting rich and having success is being able to lessen the impacts of mistakes - even though it is likely true that some people will end up experiencing great streaks of high levels of progress by being in the right place at the right time due to some of their preparations.. and perhaps some luck as well.


I doubt that success if even guaranteed either.  There are a lot of examples of people doing the right thing but still not being successful.. so it is hard to guarantee short-cuts in terms of success and richness, even though there are quite a few practices that can likely increase odds for success and/or the making of progress towards greater success and richness.

Thanks for posting those various images.. and also providing some descriptions for what you are intending to show with each of them.

In order for images to show on your posts, you either need to buy a copper membership or your forum rank needs to be higher.. I think that "member" level allows the showing of images, and your rank is still showing as newbie.. even though it seems that your rank should be Jr member soon.. and also you have been receiving quite a few smerits that should cause your account to ranking up to "jr member" and then to "member" rank fairly soon.

My citing of your post facilitates the showing of your images, and to make your images more reader-friendly, I resized your  images down a bit (you can see that I added "width=444" to the html).

Whoaza!!!!!  That devolved quickly from nice, civil and polite circles and straight into the gutter.. .



Thanks a lot homer bomer.

 

I am not against some level of plan and continuing to plan along the way, but for sure, you and I are thinking about these matters, differently, because it seems to me that one of the most important things in bitcoin is to get the fuck started right away..

and yeah, maybe you just start with $10 per week when you could invest $100 per week, and while you are getting started with a small amount, you can study and figure things out along the way... .. and maybe you end up doing dumb things and losing the first several weeks of $10 per week..

But still seems to me that almost everyone should be thinking about getting off of zero and to not  be procrastinating in regards to the getting the fuck started and don't be screwing around too much with overly planning. 

Most people on the street generally should know their budget well enough to know if they are able to buy $10 per week with bitcoin.. and if they do not have $10 to get started, then maybe they better get their shit together and get $10 to buy their first bitcoin.. and just get the fuck started, and yeah, maybe such people start in a way that is very small and non-threatening to their budget and their psychology... and so maybe it takes several weeks before starting to become more comfortable with what it is that they are investing into, but if you do not have time to study bitcoin, then at least you do the basics in terms of getting started right away, and then when you do have time, then you can look into studying bitcoin some more and tweak the BTC accumulation plan..

and another thing, everyone is responsible for their own choices regarding whether or not to buy bitcoin and if so how much to buy and how to go about it... so if some people are not comfortable enough to figure out how to buy bitcoin then those would be the first things to figure out and once they figure it out, then execute.. and just like OP said, getting started makes it much more concrete to be paying attention regarding learning and removes bitcoin from the theoretical and into the practical.. .. and  if you fuck up by buying $10 of bitcoin, don't come crying to me.. and also if you fuck up by not buying $10 right away, then at some point down the road, I will tell you, "I told you so."

What you guys are talking about sounds a bit FUDdie to me, and maybe that has to do with my not trying to analyze all the various technical nuances.. (even if I could), but if the actual situation is that current the addition (or recognition of three extra digits) in lightning network does not create any additional bitcoin, but it could have created extra bitcoin if the software developers would have developed it in such a way... but they didn't... so that sounds like a BIG SO FUCKING what.

The addition of extra digits does not create additional bitcoin unless somehow the resolution does not peg back properly and sure there seems to be some rounding up and rounding down going on.. but in the end, no extra bitcoin are create or lost.

Any time second or third layer solutions are created, there are potentials for creating extra coins (such as the creation of a tail emmissions like you said, and without having to do a hardfork), but that still seems like fantasy landia if you believe that miners and/or nodes are going to take the chances of recognizing those extra bitcoin that were created through such process... the incentives are not present for the creation of new bitcoin.. so saying that it could happen, seems like the fantasizing of something that could happen but is way the fuck out there.. .not likely and if it becomes an issue in 50-100 years, then that bridge could be crossed 50-100 years from now rather than acting like there is any real and/or meaningful threat that such a thing might happen.

Surely there are all kinds of shitcoins and all kinds of ways that value is created out of thin air, including those kinds of claims could be made about ordinals and inscriptions, but still seems like a BIG nothing burger.. if the underlying satoshis retain their same value, even if some people might choose to place higher value on some of them or attach some cute pictures or some inspiring text to them in order to attempt to cause them to be recognized as being more valuable.

I am describing with vagueness and with hypothetical on-purpose, and I think that the overall point is that there are a variety of ways that mistakes can be made - especially the longer that we might be in bitcoin, and perhaps the more adventurous that we might be with some of our ways of using bitcoin and/or storing bitcoin.  Some of my problems/mistakes had to do with sim card swap situations, which I already described at various times in my forum life.. maybe not in this thread and I don't even necessarily think that it is a good idea to get into specifics here and then sometimes leaving some value with various third parties can lead to losses, such as I had some coins on BTC-E in 2016/2017 and then also with Bitfinex in 2016, and some of the direct transactions that I made had some losses involved with coins not going through, wrong amounts, sometimes scandalous (or opportunistic behaviors of others... so maybe some of my own mistakes might be framed as having had gotten involved at all, even though there is some value that comes through having experiences, and surely, there could be worse mistakes that involve buying and selling behaviors.. or other kinds of portfolio management that might come from transacting and then figuring out whether and when replacement might need to occur.. which I am not even going to suggest to have had been day-trading).

We learn from various mistakes, and the extent that we have been put into any kind of emergency state from losses of BTC might have to do with how much was lost, and then even some pretty big mistakes that I had did not completely remove considerable appreciation in the overall value of coins held.  

Let's say for example in late 2016 to early 2017, a person might have held 40 BTC, and so when the BTC prices were around $1k, s/he had $40k in value in his/her holdings and also if the average costs were $500, then the amount invested would have been around $20k, but then a bunch of mistakes happen all at once and half or nearly half of all of the coins are lost or stolen.  Think about it, all through 2015 and 2016, the 40BTC would have been valued around $10k to $20k, so when the BTC price went up to $1k in late 2016 and early 2017, the BTC portfolio had doubled in value, so 100% profits, and so if we are looking at 2017 and 2018 and BTC prices thereafter, the 20 BTC continued to stay above the $20k invested, and even mostly stayed above the $40k at the time of the loss, so the loss was likely ONLY a temporary blip in the dollar value of the coins, and sure there could be whining about "I could have had 40 BTC, but wha wha wha, I only have 20 BTC", but what good is that going to do?..

Maybe through the next 6-7 years, the BTC holdings goes from 20 BTC to 25 BTC, and maybe more value is injected during that time (maybe another $40k-$60k in order to get 5 more BTC?.. or maybe ONLY an additional $5k is injected to get from 20 BTC to 25 BTC that keeps the average cost per BTC to remain at $1k-ish), but there also could be thoughts that "I am never going to get back to 40 BTC," but where was the "emergency" exactly?  

Sure a short time during the losses of going down from 40 BTC to 20 BTC, there could have been feelings of loss and emergency.. but there also could be feelings of futility in trying to get the value of the lost 20 BTC back or the waste of time and energy to even think about getting back 20 lost BTC, because merely having 20 BTC in the remaining portfolio still seems to be enough since the then current holdings of 20 BTC would still be considerably profitable throughout 2017, 2018 and even at all points thereafter, and so there may well would not have necessarily have been any long-lasting sense of any emergency based on the portfolio continuing to be quite profitable, whether we are talking ONLY about the initial $20k that had been invested or even if we might include some of the additional value that had ended up getting injected in the subsequent 6-7 years.

If someone owns 25 BTC right now and has around $75k invested, then s/he is feeling pretty good with an average price of $3k per BTC, and I am saying that I still like to calculate my own average cost per BTC to be around $1k per BTC and even suggesting that it is probably even less than $1k per BTC, yet I still like to round up to $1k per BTC (or to give a ballpark calculation of $1k per BTC) for ease of calculation purposes.


No problem... Just needing to remember what we were talking about... and not wanting to deviate from the topic of this thread too much.. but it tends to be o.k. to have some deviation if the topic still kind of relates and does not really contradict the thread topic.

I understand that newbie bitcoiners (and maybe even just people who might have some of their own investing rookie-ness) sometimes might panic and/or start to feel that they need to take emergency measures to make up for any losses that they might have had suffered at various points in time in their bitcoin accumulation journey.. maybe they failed/refused to invest in bitcoin, so they feel like they have to make it up or maybe they had gone through some losses and/or made some mistakes and feel that they need to get back to where they were.. which it seems to me that many times those kinds of behaviors are problematic, because we should mostly (if not exclusively) continue to try to follow better practices when managing our BTC accumulation strategies and/or even when getting into the maintenance stages of our BTC... so if we might have gone through some kinds of losses that kick us out of BTC maintenance stage and we end up back in accumulation stage, then sure we have to deal with those kinds of situations, but we should still be trying to put ourselves into a kind of normal state and not feeling that we are in any kind of an emergency status merely because some mistakes had been made along the way...

..and yeah, of course, some mistakes are worse than others and more difficult to recover from than others... so there could be some instances in which any of us might feel that we are in a short-term emergency status, but hopefully, we are able to get into a state in which we are NOT in an emergency status for any kind of period of time that last for than a few months .. and sure some times our situation might not allow us to get out of the emergency status, but my own circumstances never did rise to that level of emergency status, including that I could have lost all of my BTC and I still would have been albe to keep up my then standard of living.. sure I would not be in as good of a position as I am today, but my BTC were not needed for any of my then monthly and/or yearly expenses including that I already had various cash cushions including emergency funds that I had available, even when my BTC reduced in half and could have reduced in full.. which the second case would have got me more concerned about a potential emergency status.. and like I suggested, my BTC (in terms of their dollar value) did not really lose value for any extended period of time based on how the BTC price was moving in late 2016 and into early 2017 and through the subsequent passage of time.. we can see from the BTC price charts that we pretty much got over $3k per BTC in late 2017, and so far, the BTC price never went below $3k again.


That sucks.


Of course, we have individual discretion in terms of how much we might need to set aside for our BTC purchases, and even putting aside $10 week could cause people to suffer in a variety of ways, and some things might be easier to suffer through than others.... Do I buy a brand new laptop or do I buy a used one or do I repair my current one, and sure sometimes even with the laptop there can be considerable differences in prices, yet there might not be enough utility to spend $6k on a laptop versus spending $600, and sure it would be nice to have the extra funcionality.. but are you in a position to really get value out of that $5,400 extra that could end up going into BTC instead, and if you don't really need another laptop for 3 years, then the $5,400 may well have had been better spent on BTC rather than upgrading from a $600 to a $6k laptop... and yeah, maybe you could do a little bit of both, and if you choose to buy a $2k laptop, you still might be being a bit frivolous, but you still might have $4k that you can invest into BTC because you chose to defer some of your present gratification and hoping that you end up getting more future gratification by having that $4k invested into BTC rather than invested into a fancier laptop.


Many times we can share links, especially if the topic was mentioned and/or might be indirectly related to the topic of the thread... Sharing a link tends to be a more accepted way of sharing a somewhat divergent topic... and yeah, I have been personally practicing with my little scheme.. but it sometimes can take a while to figure out how to discuss it.. and even to figure out whether I want to discuss it... I might even decide to put it in my investment ideas thread.. but yeah, I haven't posted it yet.


Yes.  That is a fair way of re-describing some things that I had been trying to say - because essentially, if we might be brand new to investing (and/or trying to employ some kind of a BTC accumulation strategy), we likely need to reassess from time to time, and surely if we have a decently solid plan from the start that might involve going from zero to something hopefully substantial, we might not even end up with half of a years salary saved up in 3-5 years, but we might be in a better position to reassess where we are at and if we might need to make some tweaks..

versus trying to plan things out for 10-20 years and not reassessing or even if we make too many changes in the short terms or try to time the market and the dips, we might not really be in a position in which timing dips is even a good use of time versus just regularly buying $10-$100 per week and accumulating over several years and then looking at we are at in terms of BIGGER picture considerations and being more informed about having had accumulated some bitcoin versus starting out with none and not really having too many options when we are starting.. and even when we are starting, it might even take more than a year before we have anything that is approaching an meaningful amount...of course, depending on how much discretionary income we are able to allocate towards BTC accumulation.. but even if we feel that we are able to allocate even more towards BTC accumulation.. even $1k per week, we still might feel that we are making slow progress, even after a year or two.. .

I did accidentally send you an smerit for that post @Magic-Maker-40, and I don't really have any regrets, yet.. so I will just say that sometimes if you are posting about shitcoins or too much related to shitcoins and it does not seems to relate to bitcoin.. except maybe in some dumb-ass tangential way or perhaps an affinity scam kind of way. or perhaps trying to attract bitcoin talent.. then you are likely going to get some backlash in these here parts including that you are not going to be either loved or talked to in any kind of a nice way.. so it is better to admit your mistake and move on.. rather than arguing about it... .. but hey, whatever.. you do what you like...

Maybe if you tell us some things about your actual bitcoin history rather than telling us that you are not a scammer, that might be a little more productive... and allow guys here to get to know you.. if you would want us to get to know you for anything beyond someone who does not know how to post.. . or whatever, apparently you posted in this thread, and you are trying to defend your post because you would like to participate in this thread, so I am not sure what good it is going to do you if you just are inclined to argue with the regulars without really making any meaningful point.. except maybe trying to justify your post, which surely goes into shitcoin pumping landia, at worst and maybe failure/refusal to recognize the difference between bitcoin and shitcoins at best...

Again, whatever do what you like... not trying to stop you from posting, but it would probably be a bit better if you were to post something related to king daddy.. . .if you have ever heard of what king daddy is.. .. do you believe king daddy is "crypto"?  That might be a good place to start to let us know what you think about that.. if you have any ideas about what might happen to be "my little precious?"  Do you happen to happen to know?