Lol..Exactly. Its ridiculous that the banks give away loan to big corporates without due diligence and with clearances accorded in a word-of-mouth fashion from ministries. These people then simply run-off with the money.
This is as bad as the big banks rigging the political system in USA. It's only that we simply don't have a population concerned enough or watchdogs like honest parliamentary committees that can look into this.
They rig the media, the banks, the politicians while the people involved are sent off to avoid hard questions.


Very good point. When all the exchanges are already complying, where does the question of suppressing them comes from. While they should be tracking down the bad guys, they simply want to take down the good ones first to avoid having to take a nuanced approach. Typical Indian babudom.


Thanks for the link. Let's keep it circulating..

You're right about the "too big to fail" banks. I feel the central bank was complicit in this because they are supposed to be the regulator right?

The bubble that was forming due to all those mortgage derivative bonds couldn't have escaped the attention of the regulator/ watchdogs. They just chose to look the other way while credit rating agencies stamped them as AAA. Though most reports absolve them of all blame, pointing on the lack of focussed oversight, it still is hard/ naive to believe that the officials involved were completely clueless. There is a good documentary by Michael Moore on this.

And absolutely yes, the bail-outs for all these millionaire CEOs and the increase in their payouts was just a "Fuck You" to the common people I guess.

Bitcoin gives too much control in the hands of normal people which the colonial babus of our country can never find palatable. Just last night, i wrote a response regarding how the government will slowly and surely wrap it's tentacles around us..

I guess the thought was jinxed. The SIT for black money has jumped into the foray declaring:
SIT ON BLACK MONEY REVIEWS CRYTPOCURRENCIES, RECOMMENDS CLAMPDOWN

That f***ing SIT was made to fight black money. They have failed terribly at that so i guess they moved the target to show their expertise.

The bureaucrats and babus sucked the lifeblood out of poor people of this country all these years, fattening on corruption and a labyrinth of taxation for which the common man can never hold them accountable. Go to any government office in India's hinterlands & mofussil towns and you'll find these people presiding with the arrogance of some old nawab.  They are supposed to be Public Servants, but they'll do everything in their power to confuse and misguide the uninformed, poor people. It makes my blood boil as I often witness this firsthand.

This same Babudom philosophy is used at the highest decision making levels and is now being used for bitcoin. They will do all they can to paint cryptocurrencies with their 'black-money' and 'terror-financing' brush. It's up to civil society and us to present our point.

What are we doing about it? Suggestions are welcome. Please post links to any representations/ petitions being made that you know about. Let's consolidate the effort as a community.

Regards

They must be dealing with the authorities directly to get a view on this.

While, we all want the results to be positive, the problem is that we simply don't have enough expertise in the government to handle an issue like bitcoin. Indis is a place where government officials see themselves as overlords too a population that is too stupid and ignorant to decide what's best for them.

The colonial mindset with it's love for power will find the idea of allowing untraceable, financial independence to people completely terrifying. I expect to see media reports about the use of bitcoin for financing terrorism anytime now.

I think it'd be too much to expect them to behave in an accommodating, understanding manner anytime soon. It's the people themselves who need to decide what this means to us. What will we do if the banks do stop the fiat linkages?

Maybe this will be the grand experiment on bitcoin's viability because we are, after all, the biggest, most diverse country using this technology. Rather than hoping for the government to remain benign on this, we should focus on our individual ability to keep going without the fiat linkage. That is what it was meant for in the first place.

Anybody can raise funds from an ICO. If you have a legitimate working business behind it then it can be a positive point.

The problem is that most ICO's have become scammer playgrounds where the developers simply raise money and then disappear or make a show of the impossibility/ difficulty of the problem at hand.

Additionally, with the RBI instructions to banks to desist from crytpocurrency dealings, it's harder still in India to hope to raise money with ICOs. You will need to provide a report on the source of the funds when you convert to fiat. Unfortunately, it will not be legal to convert to fiat when the banks aren't allowed to do so.

It's best to wait for the picture to get clearer and wait for any any business entity looking to use crytpocurrencies for fund-raising.

This is something that people in developing countries, particularly Indians have known for a long time i guess..LOL..

Most households in India have a significant amount of Gold and Silver in the form of Jewellery, coins etc. The relative instability of living under a foreign regime for too long supposedly ingrains in you the need to have something to fall back on. Gold has always been that in the times of trouble.

Most westerners find it normal to live in debt in the form of a student loan, house mortgage etc. etc. The subcontinent on the other hand prides itself on living a debt-free life. Of course, this low risk life stifles innovation. A judicious balance needs to be maintained between stability and enough tolerance to risk so that enterprise is not restricted. The west has unfortunately, gone down the path of unrestricted enterprise.

A stable, provable store of value is a good thing. I think anybody who plans to invest in gold should also plan to invest in bitcoin. You cannot predict the future but you can always take a chance to try to be a part of it.

None of the ICOs give you a breakdown of how exactly they plan to spend the investment. Most of them are ERC-20 tokens and their products are supposed to be running on the Ethereum blockchain. This is part of the promise that Ethereum can become the "global decentralized computer" for development of Dapps. The scalability issues show that this is quite the pipe dream.

The problem with ICO's is not just liquidity but also the development. The products/ softwares they are supposed to be developing on a blockchain (whether their own or ETH based), actually don't have enough users and features to warrant the kind of Ethereum requirement that would justify their usage.

As part of self-regulation, if these ICOs want to be taken seriously, maybe they should really start giving out audited figures regarding their projected gas requirements for development, testing and usage before they become self-reliant.

For as long as they have been here, the requirement has never been rationalized. They just assume that it'll all be money when it really isn't that.

The Central banks made a laughing stock of themselves post the 2008 meltdown. Revelations regarding the nexus between mortgage companies, insurers, investment banks and the regulator should be enough for anyone to never dare to trust them anymore.

What the article says may very well be true. Their is a resurgent China which is making things difficult for US and other Western countries. The US/ West cannot cut down on their expenses without risking the scenario of a Russia/ China dominance or being seen as weak in the wake of of Jihadist terrorism. This brings us to a situation where they need to print more and spend more. This is very similar to the examples given in the article.

If this does happen, it'll be a painful and long process. In today's connected world, we don't want this to happen. If a decision has to be taken on replacing the reserve currency, can it be taken without hurting world stability? I don't think it's possible for such a thing to happen in a non-violent, prudent decision kind of way.

The decision was pretty arbitrary. Typical of the fumbling, floundering dispensation we have at the helm right now. You make a fair point that the people who have been burned will probably take their time to actually know about it before investing again.
They will surely be intrigued that why it's maintaining value despite the ill news. That's when it's border-less and peer-to-peer nature should dawn upon them.

The post from Koinex guys is appreciable but to be honest, they are out of their depth right now. If RBI strictly follows through with the announcement in the official circular, they won't have many options than to close shop. I am not very hopeful that the inept and politically-occupied government we have now, will bother with the nuances to ensure a balanced decision.

A blanket ban, though temporary, is something we should all prepare ourselves for.

Where does that figure of 1 USD outflow resulting in 25 USD drop in value comes from??

Also, I don't know which dip do we call the current dip?? LOL..
Let bitcoin go where it wants to go. A bottom may just be where it wants to be before everyone starts to smother it with attention and adulation once it starts rising up. Just let it rest.

On a more serious note, If the tax liabilities really turn out to be significant then can we expect US Govt and IRS to be a bit more accommodating as well as encouraging of bitcoin, judging how people investing into them gets them taxes.
I am hoping for the SEC to come clean on ICO regulations and maybe provide a way to remove the clouds of doubts and scams when it comes to people raising money for ICOs. A few legitimate, hard-working startups, typical of Silicon valley that use a proper ICO and then deliver will do a world of good for crytpocurrency and bitcoin than hundreds of the ones that hype incredibly and then go silent on telegrams the day their ICO ends.

Bitcoin has its roots in two main phenomena:
1. The cypherpunk movement which sees cryptography (that why the 'cypher', instead of the 'cyber') as a bedrock that can ensure privacy in all our interactions.
2. Ideas of libertarianism, that advocate individual liberty as the highest ideal and aims for minimal government intervention.

Both these ideas aim for personal responsibility and liberty without the government laying down norms on what to do, how to transact, how much to tax etc. etc. Today if i wanted to start a business, I'd need a hundred clearances from the government departments in my country. I am the one who puts in the hard work in my business but the government gets a share of it in the form of taxation at every stage. They do this by making "exchange of value" a highly complex system that involves banks and law agencies at their core.

Bitcoin does two things to further the cause of privacy and liberty. It is a "medium of exchange" as well as a "store of value" without needing an approval from the government. We, the people give it true value.

Only in developed societies people have had enough freedom, education and personal courage to follow these above ideas so most bitcoin "users" are from developed countries.

On the other hand, people in developed countries are forced to see governments as some sort of a benevolent giant that can crush you anytime but chooses not to. That is because, the level of public services, law and order etc. in our countries is so abysmal that we have a constant need to make ourselves and our loved ones safe from the struggles and dangers of a "normal life". People are too busy trying to earn enough authority or enough money so that they are not vulnerable to the fickleness of such an insecure society.

Bitcoin gives these people a chance for the first time to be their own master. Go peer-to -peer and create your own local economy. In whatever small scale it maybe, you can choose to teach yourself about the technology and the ideas behind it. Let go off the silly notions of creed, race, nationalities and so on. When religion stopped working, people introduced patriotism in the mix. Ultimately, it's only about controlling the population. Those who are lucky enough to get in touch with these ideas have the choice to let go off just be what god/nature/evolution made us. Human.

Take responsibility, Build things, Be Kind and Share.

I don't imply that it is a crime to profit from the trade. Like other people are discussing in the thread, maybe we should try to figure out who exactly could be doing this, if they really are??
The banks/ hedge funds or filthy rich investors. If there was a way to analyze the transactions and look for patterns, it wouldn't be so hard to identify the most active trading links. I understand that it goes against the whole philosophy to be asking something like this but then, if such a manipulation scenario was true, people should know who is making the concerted effort??

Lol.. by "Normal Investors", I mean the people who are jumping into this because they see it as a way to unshackle themselves from the low-return and risky investments otherwise peddled by investment banks and financial organizations (Remember House mortgage based derivatives??).
People who are jumping in with enough knowledge to take advantage of the volatility , i.e, traders, are not Normal investors. Those who form whale groups to manipulate ICO prices and flip them for quick gains aren't either.
Your average Joe's who hear about bitcoin from media and then go on to sell houses or take other huge risks are the normal investors..

The price has dropped by more than 25% in the Indian exchanges after the central bank has said that it'll ban all banking entities to stop dealing with crytpocurrencies.
Link: https://www.bloombergquint.com/business/2018/04/05/rbi-bans-regulated-entities-from-dealing-with-virtual-currencies

This too may have contributed to the sudden drop. For the first time, the price in INR is less than the international price..

Tough, exciting times ahead to learn the trade of a true cypherpunk. We shall resist!!

This can be possible scenario. We all have thought about it once in a while. Thanks for putting it in words.

The scenario where price is being manipulated for accumulation is very troubling because it actually takes the capital away from all small investors who put in money during FOMO runs.

I think we should start discussing how we can identify and do something about such manipulative scenarios.

1. Can we track the addresses which are making such simultaneous transactions for consolidation?
2. Is there a way to link those addresses that are supposedly involved in such consolidation? It's a given that they won't be buying off exchanges but rather directly from the miners or big holders.
3. Normal investors must say no to FOMO and only invest what they are willing to lose. That way, you don't lock your capital at ATH.

The article talks about "Deflation in the unit of account". The assumption is for a future world where bitcoin with a fixed and decreasing supply has replaced fiat and it, supposedly, results in lesser and lesser amount of currency being available to cater to wage requirements.
This also assumes that wages cannot be lowered as they are "sticky". That is, workers/ people want wages to increase, not decrease. (in absolute terms)

The way i am understanding this in very layman terms is that "There won't be enough BTC to distribute for everybody because it's supply is decreasing with time".
This looks like a compulsive argument. What if the majority holders just decide to HODL all of the BTC and never spend it?? What if they just decide to die fiat-less and leave their bitcoin stored on the blockchain with the private key destroyed.. Is it that kind of a scenario..??

What if BTC is the verifiable standard against which other currencies are pegged like they have always been against USD? It would be so much better if these economists were a little more open-minded and focused on informing public about how a publicly audit-able reserve currency would benefit the banking system. This would be a much better use of their time than trying to find such silly excuses against BTC.

Selamat Datang..!
The promoter of the fake Ponzi scheme GB21, Gainbitcoin, Bitcoingrowthfund, MCAP and God-knows how mnay unknown other in the name of ICOs, just got arrested in Thailand.
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http://www.crypto-news.in/news/indian-cryptocurrency-scamster-amit-bharadwaj-finally-nabbed-bangkok-police/

Kindly Spread the word!!

Endowments, Pension funds etc. select only the most secured investments that are likely to give long term returns. They typically go with the investment ratings from agencies like S&P and Moody's.
Crypto is a volatile investment and they will be the last to do this.

What we all should take heart from is that this is nothing new. Such calm times are when developers can actually focus on the product and when,  we as a community, should focus on adoption. I understand that a lot of people who invested near ATH maybe getting scared and tense. The best course of action is to teach yourself about the technology and the opportunities and value your holdings for being bitcoin, not for an investment to cash-out fiat.The gains will come.

The institutional news was amplified by the relative uneventful failing of S2X and neutralization of Chinese FUD. It gave overhhelming confidence to most retail investors who flocked to exchanges by the millions. The problem was that the ICOs boomed unimaginably too. Hyped products like Tron, Ripple etc. exposed the immaturity of overall market to the serious investors, both product-wise as well as ethics-wise.

These seem to be the fundamentals that have stopped the flow of new money/ institutional money.


Coinbase custody is a product that basically tells big money that you are not good enough to handle crypto and you should let us do it for you. I don't see how that can be confidence inducing.
A bull run will come but it'll be hardly due to institutional news now. It has to be established that the availability of secure, borderless cash can be put to good use and that it can open up new markets/ opportunities. This will be established only when we start seeing more products and lesser scams.

These days, most ICOs are accepting BTC and several other currencies as well. The phase where ICO demand led to increase in demand for ETH has more or less subsided. Like so many of the old people on this forum, I too am coming around to the fact that most ICO's are very unreliable.

People are just looking to flip profits as soon as they list. Those betting on ETH because of ICOs should look at the percentage of ICOs that are actually more than a telegram/reddit group with a Medium blog as an announcement channel. It has become way too easy and there are no signs to show that the money is being put to good use.
Under such circumstances, betting on ETH would be very risky.

BTC on the other hand is continuing to do what it does best. Decentralized innovation with L2 scaling solutions, sidechains and more privacy. It still has the most well-tested code base and the most robust network out there. Betting against it for ETH would be foolish.

The main promoter's linkedin profile tells that he has been involved with personal businesses mostly. Too many red flags here.

He has been doing this for a long time and has suddenly made the jump from managing a jewelry sourcing business to a bitcoin trading website. The suspicious part is INRT which seems to be a replication of the USDT.
The bitcoinalliance.in link is non-working too.

In India and crypto, a linkedin profile is hardly something with which you can verify the authenticity of a person's background. His doesn't speak much for him in the first place.

I don't understand the sudden interest in starting an INR based BTC exchange safely from the confines of Dubai, UAE. (By the way, that other scammer of Gainbitcoin, Bitcoingrowthfund, MCAP and now GB21 notoriety also operates out of Dubai.)

During the time when legitimate established businessmen haven't been averse to stealing bank loans and running off to other jurisdictions (Vijay Mallya, Nirav Modi, The Rotomac guy-fuck you man, you spoiled a childhood memory), I don't find it prudent for anybody to trust a person starting a BTC exchange without any legal commitments binding him or his conveniently placed exchange.

What I would like to see is what exactly do these ICO promoters have in line themselves?? How much is he investing himself?? Making a website and claiming it to be some sort of awesome trader place with catch-words like INRT looks like a typical scam to my, now, paranoid, non-ICO trusting brain...LOL..

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TLDR; Don't invest in these guys unless you see some real commitment from them to engage with the community. Newbies spreading the word after joining a Telegram channel is a big red flag in itself. If you trust such a promoter to keep his word in times like these then the joke is on you. Don't forget the treason of "Freedom 256" mobile device!!