So I just got my erupters in. Do i put the BRG miner to nastyfans.org:9332? I still get payouts when i use my address right? This is not just donated but im still helping correct?
Correct - if you use your address as your login and password you'll receive it - as an additional check - go to http://p2pool.info and you should see your address after some time running. I don't believe that is correct. We are using modified software and the payout system is not yet in place. If you point a miner at the NastyFans.org pool, you will be donating your hashing power at this time. I was testing it out yesterday and believed it worked for me although I could have been mistaken. I did see my login showing up on p2pool.info with an approximate speed. I noticed that cgminer was acting funny on me though and would crash my system after 10-15 minutes this morning so I switched back to bit minter until I figure out what the cause of the system stability problems are. Interesting. Maybe nonnakip is back to work behind the scenes.  are there plans of putting a fee on that node? could be a good nastfans thing to do. If you're mining on someone else's pool, you have to give someone a fee -- might as well make it naaaastyfans. |
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"( The controller board also has and expansion for additional linux devices for future upgrade/ second generation)"
so can we expect, at some points, our dividend to be hold once to upgrade the chip to second generation for a better hashrate?
Hey, good question! In order to make addiction a long-term succes we have to think about a reinvestment policy yeah. We're not sure how we are going to do that but keeping a part of the dividends to expand is certainly an option. We'll see when we get there I guess  We'll keep in close contact with KnC so we know if and when we can upgrade.. PS Guys, if you haven't checked it out, please take a look at our investment fund idea here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=277191.0Cheers! I vote a huge and tremendous NO (as loud as I can!) to mandatory reinvestment of dividends. 1) It was a group buy, individual share holders should choose how much they are willing to reinvest and how. 2) Network growth rate and product offerins is unpredictable, and an arbitrarily chosen reinvestment rate may not be enough to keep up with growth. In that case, no reinvestment and the ability to cash out without losing money on investing on more hardware will be impossible. 3) It will destroy the known value of ADDICTION (and replace it with pure speculation) -- reinvestment are not transparent and there is no investor control, it's hard to valuate shares 4) there are "managed group buys" (LabRat, Nasty, IceDrill) that do mandatory reinvestment. ADDICTION is a different offering in that you can choose how much reinvestment there is and what to buy next. Don't turn this "true" group buy into a "managed" group buy. This is one of the reasons I like it so much, you put the power back in the hands of investors. 5) you know longer let the market choose what a viable investment is and instead force them on investors. I vote a loud YES to keep on doing what you're good and unique at! 1) Offer group buys, raise funds and buy equipment, and distribute shares so that the hash rate of individual shares stays the same. (I believe this is actually what you say you will do on the description in bitfunder) 1a) offer group buys of diversified hardware -- you can expand beyond KNC and it still works with your model. 2) People can reinvest and buy more shares on bitfunder with their dividends as they need to see fit. Yes, share valuation and dividend per share will continually decrease, but more shares will be made available so market cap and total dividends will constant if you keep a constant share of the network. If you have too many small shares outstanding, see if bitfunder can do a reverse-split. As bitcoin securities go, I'd love to see ADDICTION be the (only?) offering that follows this model -- I think the other models introduce unnecessary risk that can reduce or destroy profit. |
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The reason people keep misunderstanding each other on this point is that some are aiming for more USD, others are aiming for more BTC.
More BTC = More USD Less BTC = Less USD You cannot get more USD out of less BTC! This is the problem: I could have bought a jally for 13 BTC (then $160) when they first came out. That machine could have made me 10 BTC over its life (now $1000+). Less BTC=More USD The reason people misunderstand each other is that they are doing conversions from BTC to USD in their heads at different points of time because some are thinking of optimizing BTC and some are thinking of optimizing for USD. My approach: maximize BTC holdings while hedging against systematic market instability by selling futures. Don't consider the future value of BTC in any calculations because it is irrelevant - if you need USD/BTC ratio to go up to get a positive ROI -- you're doing it wrong. |
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You get paid for each share you have found within the PPLNS window. So the smallest payment you can get is for 1 share, which translates to ~0.003-0.004 BTC at the moment.
Ahh ok. So, with 8640 shares, that is 25 / 8640 = 0.00289 minimum? Has there been any consideration to consolidation into larger payments? For example, your "account" maintains a balance and is paid out when it exceeds 0.01 BTC, or when it is about to fall off the end of the chain. Effectively, when there is a win, anyone who holds a share has their account increased by the number of shares they hold. The payouts are to the accounts who are owed the most and to also to accounts that are near the end of the chain (as they are at risk of falling off the chain). Mathematically, that would be the same as manually boosting the difficulty of the shares returned to the network. You'll get paid less often (large variance), but your payouts will be larger. This features is already built-in. log in with the username "username/difficulty". Current difficulty is ~20,000. So if you want 2x larger payments (paid out 2x less frequently), log in to your p2pool as "username/40000". |
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BFL has a bad track record but right now, they are shipping. A year late of course. Will it be a year late this time? And will they ship before the other 28nm wanabees? I'd say unlikely and likely.
I don't know how you can say that. To me they are losing lots if $$ cause people are forcefully getting refunds. They need more cash to stay alive. I've been with nasrymining for a couple years just got rid of my shares. Maybe ill be back if they ever deliver. Good luck guys I think you've been reading too many conspiracy theory posts. A company that needs cash to stay alive doesn't tape out 28 nm chips. Falsely claiming that they have to get orders is jail-time criminal; their names and addresses are all well known. The evidence points to a company that actually is healthy, and there appears to be a significantly larger (50x based on forum posts/references alone) population of people that received products to those that received refunds. 2% loss isn't something you want, but is something you can live with -- especially since you didn't sell their product and can sell it to someone else (at a reduced cost in a few months). History has shown 2 things about BFL: 1) They've been very late and over-promised (both ASICs and FPGAs) 2) People that ordered on the first day make lots of money hopefully Nasty got in on time for the bullet run. |
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All in all, as soon as we have an exact date and time we can finalize the "battle plan"!  We're as eager as you all are to have the equipment hashing and leave these things behind us First off, this group buy is brilliant. I wish all other GBs (and IPOs) were this well planned and organized. I figured out a mathematical way to do all the payment corrections and mine fairly for each GB. If it helps, great. If not, no problem. There needs to be 3 price corrections for GB 1, 2, and 3. These can be done with 3 dividend corrections per share: "x", "y", and "z". The first GB will see all three dividend corrections: x+y+z= GB1_correction/Number_shares_GB1 (negative sign since they owe) The second GB receives their shares later and only sees two: y+z= GB2_correction/Number_shares_GB2 the third GB receives their shares last and only sees one dividend correction: z= GB3_correction/Number_shares_GB3 Therefore the three dividend corrections per share are: z = GB3_correction/Number_shares_GB3 y = GB2_correction/Number_shares_GB2 - GB3_correction/Number_shares_GB3 x = GB1_correction/Number_shares_GB1 - GB2_correction/Number_shares_GB2 Example: GB1 underpaid by .2 BTC with 100 shareholders (-0.002) GB2 underpaid by .3 BTC with 200 shareholders (-0.0015) GB3 overpaid by .1 BTC with 100 shareholders (.001) The dividend corrections per share are: z = 0.1/100=0.001 y = (-0.3)/200-.001= (-0.0025) x = (-0.2)/100-(-0.3)/200 = (-0.0005) so after the dividend corrections: GB1 sees -.0005-.0025+.001=-.002 GB2 sees -.0025+.001= -.0015 GB3 sees .001 they all work out, like magic Proposed plan: 1) GB1 arrives a) hash away. b) first dividend pays out normally CORRECTED by x from above 2) GB2 arrives a) give final dividend of whatever has been mined to GB1 shares b) issue GB2 shares c) plug in GB2 and hash away d) give first GB1+2 dividend normally CORRECTED by y from above 3) GB3 arrives a) give final dividend of whatever has been mined to GB1+2 shares b) issue GB3 shares c) plug in GB3 and hash away d) give the first GB1+2+3 dividend normally CORRECTED by z from above 4) profit |
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what is the rationale for not putting the rest of the shares on bitfunder?
I would like to call a vote on this, do other people want the rest of their shares now or do you guys want to wait until delivery?
Hey btceic, We would have done that already if we could, but unfortunately there are a few reasons why we haven't. First and most important is the delivery date. As you know we treat all miners in one groupbuy the same, but miners from groupbuy 2 and 3 are "different" from groupbuy 1. Reason being the delivery date. It wouldn't be fair to the early investors of groupbuy 1 to already issue the shares on groupbuy 2 and 3 because we would no longer have any means to payout dividend only to group 1, 2 or 3. Second is the BTC/USD difference on each miner we still have to repair on first dividend. These averaged over each groupbuy. GB 1 and 2 still owe an amount of BTC due to that difference, GB3 are owed. If all shares would be issued now there would be no way to change that difference anymore. Now as soon as we have a definitive delivery date on the miners from all three GB's we can decide whether or not we want to change this tactic. We are planning to drive to Sweden to pick up the first batch and it might make sense to pickup the day 2 miners all in one go even if that means we start hashing a little later on the first miners. We think shipping it would still take two business days so we'd still have them all earlier than if we shipped them. If that's the case we can basically issue the shares (no GB 2 at least) straight away. The BTC/USD difference between GB 1 and 2 is small enough to overcome that if need be. Lastly we've discussed with Bitfunder the possibility of listing GB2 and 3 as seperate IPO's (even though we didn't want to do that), but Ukyo was strongly opposed to that, so that road seems closed as well for now. We're doing our best to get that delivery date asap so we can issue the shares and we hope that we receive a definitive date pretty soon but until that time our hands are basically tied. Cheers, I am curious, what is the implementation plan for dividends of the GB? It seems complex: 1) receive GB 1, turn them on, take the first mined coins to pay for the difference in BTC/USD, then distribute dividends normally 2) GB 2 arrives. give the last payout to the current shareholders (GB1). Issue shares to GB2. Turn on GB2. How do you take out mined coins only from GB2? After that, distribute GB1 and GB2 mined coins to all shareholders (GB1 and 2 now). 3) GB3 arives. give last payout to current shareholders (GB1 and GB2). Issue shares to GB3 and give GB3 some bitcoins for the BTC/USD difference (how does this happen?) Mine with GB1,2,&3. distributions to all shareholders. |
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public investors 60% A
private investors 40% B
dividend 75% C
reinvest 25% D
The profit should then be split between: running cost 10.0%
public investor dividend 40.5% A*C*(100-cost)/100
private investor dividend 27.0% B*C*(100-cost)/100
reinvest 22.5% D*(100-cost)/100
Sorry for being slow but I don't understand where do 40.5 and 27% come from! Thanks in advance. ok so buying/renting via icedrill will bring only 40.5% procent mined bitcoins... lol public investors also own 60% of the reinvestment (supposedly) with the other 40% going to the private investors. this IPO was horribly structured, and not well thought out - it's too bad, I wish they followed a normal start-up business capitalization model and not confused everyone with this complicated private/public and dividend/equity-reinvestment scheme. According to the above numbers, 90% of the mined bitcoins (from your share) are returned to you. some are returned as BTC, and some are returned as increased equity. |
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As you may have noticed, I've been spending a lot of time diversifying NASTY MINING and finding new donation sources outside of our typical mining operation. Diversification has taken the form of obtaining assets on BitFunder, participating in group buys, developing new services, and even taking out a loan denominated in BTC. Finding new donation sources outside our main operation is also important. That is why I started a fee-free pass-thru on BitFunder and gave my blessing to Carnth to run a pass-thru on BTCT where 1% of all donations received are sent back to NastyFans. This brings us to my latest fund raising effort. On July 31st, I paid to have 1,000 NastyFans 1g silver coins made. For each of these coins sold, BTC0.01 will be donated to NastyFans. This is also a pilot program for a much larger and more exciting product, which will also have profits donated to NastyFans. If you would like to help support this fundraiser for NastyFans and pick up some silver in the process, check out my thread in the Goods section: [WTS] NastyFans 1g .999 Fine Silver Collector's Rounds (2013)This is really cool, but I'm wondering why you are being so generous. It looks like nearly all the the profits are being donated. Were some seats sold to organize/pay for this? If so, that's a really interesting diversification and another thing that is unique to the nastyfans group and would justify the extra donations to the fanclub. |
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Brace yourself, "where are my dividends?" posts are coming!  Yup. 122GH/s (in hand) divided by the bonds sold (~26,000) is about 4.7 MH/s per bond. This Saturday's payout will be next to nothing. However, good news for investors. This will probably anger some people, and they'll sell off some bonds for cheap. I'm already waiting to buy them up. Surely people can't be that stupid, can they? There were never going to be dividends for a long time, surely even the most stupid out there realise that 0.00001>0 no? immediately followed by Havelock Investments seems to be going downhill with all those lackluster IPOs. SANDSTORM, and then this.
i found it funny |
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Mark Zuckerberg built the site from ground and they were already big by the time they released their ipo. You cannot compare that to a company with 0 value which value only comes from the money people put in.
Its like you go to a bank, say I want to start a business and rent a house but therefore I need to buy a house, and for security I give you 50% of the house while you (the bank) finance 100%.
+1, but it goes a bit further: There is no house. There is just a contractor planning to build a house (DeadTerra). To build that house, DeadTerra is relying on materials to be provided by HashFast, who, in turn, hasn't made those materials yet. It's turtles all the way down. My mind has been tossing around what these PMBs that buy after an IPO and reinvest dividends are really doing... they aren't bonds, nor stock, it's more like a managed group buy. You participate in the group buy/preorder of new hardware. You pay a management fee for hosting as well as for negotiating future deals. You are forced to reinvest 25% of your earnings, which you wouldn't have to do in a group buy but had the option to buy more shares or buy another group buy. I, personally, like the "clean" group buys that turn in to shares (soniq, ADDICTION) - but there may be some value in hiring LabRat or DeaDTerra to continuously negotiate group buys for you if they can leverage a better deal than you can get trying to get in on a day one group buy. These are all more like a hedge fund than a bond or stock... |
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Nasty Fans
Assets = 300GH/s + 5GH/s (maybe) / currently mining + 800GH/s on order with BFL = 1.105 TH/s
total shares = 100,000 = 11 MH/s per share
outstanding = 10000
price = 0.00505051
public market cap = 50.51 BTC ~ USD $5050
price per GH = .45BTC
I appreciate what you did to put this all together! I know you are completely guessing, and these PMBs are crazy bad investments by all "normal" investment logic - so this effort is worthwhile when you consider how someone basis-less the investments are. Your Nasty math is a bit off though. The 1.105 TH/s you describe is actually split amongst 19732 seats. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=86854.01000 of those seats are sold as a pass-through on bitfunder: https://bitfunder.com/asset/NastyFansat a rate of 100 shares per seat. So there are two prices per seat, the pass-through is ~.5 BTC/seat and through nastyfans.org at ~.35 BTC/seat The calculation is thus: total bitfunder shares = 100,000 = 0.53 MH/s per share (1.05TH/s /19732/100) outstanding = 10000 price = 0.00505051 public market cap = 50.51 BTC ~ USD $5050 price per GH = 9.5BTC total nastyfans.org seats = 19732 = 53 MH/s per seat oustanding = 19732 price = 0.35 market cap = ~8k BTC = $800,000 price per GH = 6.5 also, NastyFans is out of IPO (and has been for a while). Price is set entirely by the market. They are also one of the few (only?) mining securities that is actually mining. |
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Not a single comment re. me doubling the commission rate? Come on; this is unacceptable gouging. Who does he think he is. Etc? Here's a profit chart. I added a green "expected - 5k" line to show how we're running parallel to expectation, just about 5k below it. Expectation is that we'll continue to do so. We won't, of course - we'll do better or worse that expected.  Thanks! Whenever you get around to automated plots (or give access to historical data), what I was thinking about was one showing daily volume in BTC. This way investors can calculate what the expected return on investment should be. The loans on bitfunder return 0.05%/day, and if I think the risk is equal on both sites, I'd want to put more in just-dice if it is > 0.05%/day return. |
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I am rather dissatisfied with the random downtime on Eligius over the past 48 hours. Due to this fact I have switched over to EMC. I would rather have a more stable miner with less visibility. You will see the stats hit https://eclipsemc.com/top_miners_pie.php over the next week or 2. The company hashrate should hit ~95GH on Wednesday or Thursday depending on how reliable USPS is. This is currently enough to be placed on the top miners list. I will likely be implementing API connectivity with my website in the near future, but for the time being this will have to suffice. Are you planning on using a commercial pool long term or are you thinking of setting up a private pool (or p2pool -- I think OgNasty, ADDICTION, pyraminning asics-only are using p2pool so they control their own nodes, are DoS protected, and only pay a ~1% donation to the developer) |
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It could be interesting seeing weekly betting patterns and growth rates with plots of daily (or weekly, or moving average) amount wagered versus time.
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_____
5 shares
TX id 751d342dce65e3a044212e04785a2cfd2d8adc7b101b8bd027efbc44d3189936
BTC payment address:
1CCWLKvbw4tvfCNeRkPhZ4DYxPcGoJZnKm
thanks you
______
signed:
H5bp3W/Pd0pBComFW2pQS8parN1JCQ5KY+qx1YOGVdGe4d9oQmwO1Ii8FsTjHkv9+uKJ3KYzgP8jrgXl6yjyBLk=
by sending address:
1DXCqXn8M7VJ7c1K5H5qhMSkZKkpSesQ8o
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Are each of these purchased as their shares are sold or all 5 at the same time (after all shares are purchased?)
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So whats up with the website? Have we really not had any donations the last 4 days?
it's been the worst luck for the pool in at least the past 3 months... supposed to get a donation every 20 hours, it's been dry for over 4 days. Two rounds ago took 19 minutes, this round is now at 4 days 5 hours and 29 minutes. still down on the week, but we just hit two blocks in two hours, something like 8 BTC. |
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