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2501  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 06, 2019, 09:09:07 PM
^Current target date for the halving is 23 May 2020

No, August 6. https://www.litecoinblockhalf.com

Ah yes apologies.  The LTC halvening.
2502  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 06, 2019, 09:00:44 PM
^Current target date for the halving is 23 May 2020
2503  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 06, 2019, 05:26:25 AM
Ok I have had a bit of a look and I can’t come up with any models which support $12k+ before November 2019 at the very earliest even with front running so I am not going to worry about that as a possibility.
2504  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 06, 2019, 03:12:57 AM
^

I still like to compare our recent flat with late 2012-early 2013. Check it out.
Nothing, then a hockey stick. It might happen here as well.
If it does, we might form a local peak at 35-40K as early as in 3-4 months (from the start of the exponential move), or in 5-6 mo if it is a bit stretched out.

Hmmm interesting.  Would need to chart that.  


Here, just a sketch:



Good one.  I will take a crack at it myself - unlikely to be today.
2505  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 06, 2019, 02:54:48 AM
...reversion to the 2015 fractal.

with a terrifying lower low spike to satisfy Elliot

Fuck that Elliot guy I'm not giving away my riches to V8
2506  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 06, 2019, 02:51:44 AM
An early rush going over 10k by autumn this year, lots of froth and fomo starting and then a pull back before EOY, just as the 'here we go' was kicking in.  

Then two runs makes sense, too

A fake run that fizzles before 'Moon' and baffles everyone.  Then a 'real run' becomes possible (and organic) after a few month's breather.  I can see that as a very plausible scenario.

Yes that would scare the pants off everyone, which is something Bitcoin delights in doing.  It becomes a real risk if we break up to $6k from here.  I would much rather a slow gentle climb - I don't want to see $6k right now. 
2507  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 06, 2019, 02:32:06 AM
^

I still like to compare our recent flat with late 2012-early 2013. Check it out.
Nothing, then a hockey stick. It might happen here as well.
If it does, we might form a local peak at 35-40K as early as in 3-4 months (from the start of the exponential move), or in 5-6 mo if it is a bit stretched out.

Hmmm interesting.  Would need to chart that.  

jeez Hairy..that one chart..like raining meteorites down on us. buzz kill. now we have to worry about the 250sma...ffs

In the immortal words of Sheryl Crow:

No one said it would be easy
No one said it'd be this hard
No one said it would be easy
No one thought we'd come this far
2508  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 06, 2019, 02:24:11 AM
I am throwing this up for Hairy, Toxic, fillippone and all - just in case it helps in the debate and helps in finding as many key points as possible to watch. Things to watch and check if the fractal is matching, going at the same pace, or not.  The actual price obviously cannot possibly fit exactly - but there has been a pattern and it's been too close to ignore.  A 4-year cycle, an 85% drop from the high, highs in December... we have all spotted it.  But what will tell us more; or bring up further thoughts that might lend an edge to guessing what's coming?

That so many have noted a pattern and want to track it means (as I said in my last long post) it is likely it will be front run and therefore the pattern will break...  Perhaps only in terms of its velocity, perhaps in totally breaking it - but there are numbers, markers, and time points along the way - so it must be possible to at least see how close it's running to pattern, or if it's diverging predictably, or just veering off.

Agreed.  

How does this play with your fractals theory Hairy? Are the markets being front run as savy investors gear up for the next mania phase? Genuinely interested in your thoughts or anyone elses on the matter.

Yes I think the fractal is being front run by a couple of months by traders trying to get an edge.  But they are probably being too greedy right now and have gotten ahead of themselves.  

If we break the fractal and break upwards, I am developing a theory that 2019/2020 will see a rerun of the 2013 double peak.  The 2015 fractal is conclusively front run and broken upwards, and then we coming screaming back down and Bitcoin is pronounced dead.  And then after Bitcoin is officially dead, we bounce parabolically upwards.  Please note, this secondary model is dependent on a massive price surge in 2019.  If we do not see a surge to $10k or above, then much less likely to eventuate.  

The chart below shows what I consider to be the more likely outcome, which is a reversion to the 2015 fractal.

2509  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 06, 2019, 02:04:46 AM
Jbear

The market has spoken.  

BSV is a classic shitcoin descending towards zero which will never regain its previous heights.  Some other shiny new shitcoin will come along and replace it as the "next Bitcoin". It has had its run.
Appeal to authority and generally irrelevant.

What the market has decided upon doesn't change the facts.

I don't think we disagree.  The market has decided (fact) that BSV has 1.7% the value of Bitcoin. 
2510  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 06, 2019, 12:40:49 AM
'Tis possible. My money says you'll be proven wrong. Either way, WTF does that have to do with any ongoing discussion here?

Your incessant big blocker rambling.  You don't need to 'save' Bitcoin or whinge about Segwit.  You already have your own coin which is being tested in the open market, with clear results.  
2511  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 06, 2019, 12:22:43 AM
Jbear

The market has spoken.  

BSV is a classic shitcoin descending towards zero which will never regain its previous heights.  Some other shiny new shitcoin will come along and replace it as the "next Bitcoin". It has had its run.

Nothing you can say or do will change that.  



This is what BSV will look like in 2022

2512  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 05, 2019, 11:40:27 PM
So an interesting situation developing here.  So far since the 2017 peak, we have stuck faithfully to the 2014/15 fractal.  If we were to go up from here, it would suggest we were breaking up away from the fractal, at least temporarily.  Nothing to get too excited about, but worth watching.  We are certainly a bit ahead of schedule at the moment, which is consistent with traders attempting to front run the 2014/15 model.  Click on pics for higher resolution.  



I have been wondering how to explain the price capping out at $5,300 and think I have my answer.  The price has run up to the 300 Day MA and is now sitting nicely in the middle of a channel between the 300 Day MA and the 200 Day MA.



Our fear and greed index is leaning towards greedy.


Note:  ignore the 21 February tag in this image - it is the reading on 5 April.

On balance I think we need a good shake of the tree to pull us back down.  Too many people are too bullish right now.  So I am projecting another drop down and a bit more despair.  Maybe we will break down through the 200 MA Daily into the high $3ks to give people a bit of a kick in the ass, and then crawl our way back up.  I would never short this because we are in a bull market now, but a good opportunity to BTD.  
2513  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 05, 2019, 01:23:57 PM
Can we just not let the arguing with jbreher polarize sides as if there was no middle more reasonable field?

Bitcoin is scaling the right way. But that doesn't mean it won't have a moderate and reasonable block size increase in the (near?) future.

L2 is the way to go, but block size will also need some (linear, not exponential as that's what L2 is for) capacity upgrade sometime.
Hear, hear, couldn't agree more.

I don’t think the need is conclusive yet - and the trade offs are significant.  Let’s see how we go.
2514  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 05, 2019, 01:22:45 PM
Yes I am having to use bitcoinwisdom.io as well
2515  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 03, 2019, 09:06:39 PM
As V8 says, going to need a taller screen

2516  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 03, 2019, 09:02:54 PM
Looking at CMC I am impressed with the volume and more impressed by the exchange diversity. https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#markets
Volume is very evenly distributed across many exchanges these days..

And very fake.  There is a very long report kicking around on the internet which explains how volume is fake on everything except Bitstamp, Bitfinex, Kraken and Counbase Pro. 
2517  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 03, 2019, 09:01:34 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_tax#Current_examples

Quote
Argentina
Canada
France
Spain
Netherlands
Norway
Switzerland
Italy
Do note that the Netherlands don't have a capital gains tax. And their wealth tax caps at I believe 1.6 or 1.8%.

Wealth tax here is like this:



Does the wealth tax apply to your primary residence?

No ,however you do pay a seperate small tax on the worth of your residence. This is usually greatly offset by the fact that you can deduct the interest you pay on you mortgage off of the income you have to pay tax over, so in practice you get about 50% back on the interest you pay to the bank.

Tax deductible mortgage payments on your primary residence is a pretty big deal.  

I don’t agree with it personally because it just drives up property prices and a house is not an income producing asset.  So it is a huge tax expenditure for no real gain for the economy.

It’s a good way to increase your net worth though if you own a big house when the rule change goes through or specialize in renovations.
2518  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 03, 2019, 08:58:28 PM
Been thinking:

I have been trying to crunch historical prices of late to see if I can spot patterns between data sets from 2015 and 2019. Patterns that might allow me some kind of edge in future price prediction. And not just so I can win one of MicG's games Wink

Obviously I've been trying this because it's apparent that there are established cycles and even uncannily close ratios that appear in Bitcoin related to halvings, absolute bottoms and ATHs.

Many have predicted this cycle will take longer than previously, saying that cycles appear to be getting more drawn out.

However - there is a simple factor at work here which I think means this is not the case, which is that once something is reasonably predictable then you can reasonably anticipate it. For instance, it's not stupid to postulate that it's usually cold in January in the Northern hemisphere, so you pack warm and waterproof items of clothing if you intend to be there and spend time outside. You cannot predict the precise temperature on a given day - but you know it's a safe bet in January it's going to be cold.

What the hell has the weather got to do with Bitcoin?  Well, the more confirmation that the cycle is looking like it's heading for a repeat akin to the past (as sure as the seasons inevitably change) it follows that more people will feel confident in front-running it.  Logically, if it has bottomed and is now almost definitely going up rather than down, then (equally logically) it's batshit crazy not to buy before it gets more expensive.  Especially as the pesky damn digital things are going to be more difficult to acquire, since the supply is decreasing.  OTC is not necessarily going to be so easy, either - and some miners may perhaps delay selling quite so quickly.  The feedback loop will be powerful with so much media interest and the institutional money around, too.

Now - bear with me? Let me spool back to the post-Gox era and the 'bubble/bust' before the 17/18 one we have just come through.

In January 2015 I did buy at the bottom, but not because I had any god-like foresight. Not at all.

Frankly, I didn't know if Bitcoin would ever come back (did anyone for sure?) However, I was underwater with my investment, so the only thing to do was to buy more to average my cost down and make a breakeven more likely in future.  I wasn't certain, I just felt I had to either sell, or double down, and I didn't want to quit.  So, I steeled myself, trusted my instinct and bought a load more.  With 20/20 hindsight it was probably the best financial decision I ever made, but if you'd said to me then that the bitcoins I had just bought for sub 200 bucks would be worth nearly $20K less than three years later - I would probably have thought you were crazy. Back then this thread had tumbleweed rolling through and sometimes not one post (apart from chart buddy) for hours.

What I am driving at is that today it's just not the same as back then.  Now, we have had bubbles and crashes that look like fractals with some trend regularity being apparent and yes, looking predictable. Now, no one has any illusions that BTC could not easily hit 20K again.  Now, any doubts about increasingly higher prices returning once the bottom is 'obviously' in the rear view mirror will disappear pretty fast.

So, the more the price 'recovers' the more asymmetrical a bet on Bitcoin looks.  5K? A risk? What fucking risk!

Back to my workings on that pattern overlay I mentioned.  Well right now the bunch of models I set up are looking out of sync. Now I may be VERY wrong of course and it's not based on nearly enough data, but it looks to me like it's going faster than it should be.

Certainly some people, including me in my small way, have been steadily accumulating.  Sooner or later of course, no matter what - it had to start to increasingly affect price.  And then, well...  it doesn't take a genius to see that buying now what is already rising again and highly likely to be at a lot higher price level before too long, just makes sense. The feedback loop will be way more powerful. Bitcoin has blown everyone away more than once, fewer and fewer people will be prepared to bet against it anymore. Now, it's got 'previous form'.

And for anyone who has a lot already - it's looking foolish to risk trying price suppression in order to accumulate anymore - not when tens of millions of $ can flip the price up 20% or more in the wee small hours of the morning.

Maybe there isn't so much time left to accumulate at these levels after all?

Also, here's a thing: what if the very supposed 'predictability' of Bitcoin will mean it can't be this time? In a sort of 'Heisenburg's uncertainty principle' way, the very act of having measured it, makes the measurement invalid - as the market is expecting it.

Forgive the long ramble - I am just feeling things are different and any assumptions we have of what 'the cycle' should do and how long it should take are a tad out of date. And I am sure I can't be the only soul on this planet thinking along these lines.

So: what if the common assumptions are indeed totally out of date and it starts running away far earlier than expected? 

Well, I just hope you've already packed your bags for the trip and they are as full as possible.  Don't worry, though - I have a feeling it won't be too cold where we are headed.

In fact, it's probably a good idea to bring your shades.



NB: I sometimes have flights of fancy that are utterly risible, I just wanted to float this for fun. After all, the one thing you can rely on with honey badger - is that it doesn't give a fuck about what you are expecting it to do, right?
DYOR.

these are kind of my thoughts just written in greater detail.

in 2015 everbody was like ahh bitcoin dont know it was just a hype it wont come back
now its like yeah wait for the halvening and it will be like in the 6 digits .
 alot of people are quietly watching the price and the ones with guts are getting in early.

nobody knows what will happen till the halvening but you can say the price will be higher at the halvening


ran out of merits but this long post if deffinetly worth a merit

Great post.  I think this rally over the next two years is the big one. Everyone has heard of Bitcoin but almost no one owns any.   Wall Street has spent this bear market building the critical infrastructure and is largely ready to roll.  

Even the SEC is ready. Bring it.  
2519  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 03, 2019, 08:54:36 PM
I want that correction! Buy order ready at $4600:

A suggestion:   Don’t use round numbers for your limit orders. Put it $20 or $30 above because if the price is going to bounce, it will bounce above $xx00.  If the prices touches $xx00 then it’s going to drop below that amount.
2520  Economy / Speculation / Re: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion on: April 03, 2019, 08:50:28 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_tax#Current_examples

Quote
Argentina
Canada
France
Spain
Netherlands
Norway
Switzerland
Italy
Do note that the Netherlands don't have a capital gains tax. And their wealth tax caps at I believe 1.6 or 1.8%.

Wealth tax here is like this:



Does the wealth tax apply to your primary residence?
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