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2541  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin falls as one of the world's biggest cryptocurrency markets on: January 11, 2018, 07:44:49 AM
So that is where the recent drop is coming from! I guess South Korea might become the next China.

It still looks more like a warning shot towards exchanges to keep their paperwork in order though, so a full on ban on cryptocurrencies is not in yet.
2542  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Increasing Bitcoin supply on: January 10, 2018, 11:07:33 PM
[...] Is it impossible to increase the bitcoin supply mining new bitcoins further more ?  Thanks in advance

Why would one want to increase the Bitcoin supply?


It is technically possible, but doing so would negatively impact the price. It is likely never going to happen.

It would simply lead to a hardfork that will likely find no community acceptance -- meaning the original side of the fork will stay dominant, leaving increased-supply-Bitcoin-hardfork as an alt. It follows that the price of unchanged-supply-Bitcoin might stay largely unaffected while increased-supply-Bitcoin will be left in the dust.
2543  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: US/Euro accountants to minimize bitcoin tax? on: January 10, 2018, 08:29:30 PM
Wow, super useful. Ok. Then I guess when I follow my friend's path of handing in my passport, it'll be over 1 year of holding and then I can't legally be a resident of the previous country, so... I'll end up withdrawing in a country that has the past-1-year-holding policy. Thanks for the info! Really appreciated.

You're welcome.

Make sure to get some professional advice as well (or at least to do some further research), as I can only speak as someone living in the EU and not as an expert.

Also I wouldn't be surprised if we see changes regarding Bitcoin taxation in the next 2-3 years. It's still a fairly new matter and classifications may change, so keep an eye out for that.
2544  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: BTC and XRP in your body on: January 10, 2018, 07:10:20 PM
I would rather duct tape a Trezor to my face. Same thing, less silly.

It's not the worst tech-implant I've heard of (having small magnets implanted into your fingertip for some sort of "6th sense" takes the cake in that regard), but it comes pretty close in terms of unnecessary body modifications. But to each their own I guess.
2545  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Question/Poll - Will you invest 0.01 BTC to win 100 BTC? on: January 10, 2018, 03:59:05 PM
If you can make it provably fair and gain the community's trust it might work, but especially the latter is going to be rather hard. Especially given the amount of BTC and people you are trying to get involved.

In the end I could just try my luck with one of the established dice sites and have the same odds and potential winnings without the extra steps of a lottery.
2546  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: ICO Prices Too High on: January 10, 2018, 03:46:49 PM
Is it just me or do you also see that ICO prices are starting to get ridiculously high (considering most of them don't even have a working product).

ICOs have been mostly overvalued to begin with, so that's nothing new. Investing in startups is already risky as is, even moreso if it comes to the ecosystem that is crypto. Just watch from the sidelines unless you feel like gambling.


[...] Bitcoin is an empty token, not even an ICO, no project or real assets behind it and cost ~14K per fckn coin!! [...]

What's your definition of a project and real assets, ie. what do ICOs have that BTC doesn't?
2547  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Venezuela launches petros, their national cryptocurrency on: January 10, 2018, 12:44:23 PM
President Nicholas Maduro ordered the issuance of the Venezuela's national cryptocurrency. Whitepaper to be released on January 14. What do you think about this? How will it impact on the cryptocurrency world?

It's an interesting move, should they follow through. It's definitely going to be centrally issued, the other question on my mind is whether this is going to be a public or a private blockchain.

If they make it a public blockchain and Petro gets traded alongside other alts... things could get really messy for Venezuela, because they will make themselves a prime target for market manipulation -- or actively take part in it themselves. Either way it will be interesting to see what happens, but right now I think this move will be merely a footnote in the history of crypto.
2548  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: US/Euro accountants to minimize bitcoin tax? on: January 10, 2018, 10:54:22 AM
1) Taxes on Bitcoin sales do not get automatically deducted in any European country, you will have to file tax reports yourself.

So the banks don't rat you out as the U.S. banks do?

What I mean is that I'm not aware of any broker that offers automatic taxation on Bitcoin trades (brokers and banks usually automatically deduct capital gains tax in case of funds and bonds for example).

This means you'll have to manually file tax reports (or have a tax advisor help you) and then pay taxes according to whatever tax rate applies to you.

Whether banks will report "shady" incoming transactions from crypto-exchanges or take action on it will depend on the bank. Usually has nothing to do with taxation though, rather with worries about money laundering and such.


2) Taxes vary wildly between EU member states. Not just in regards to crypto. Be aware that the tax-free-after-1-year-of-holding rule only applies to a handful of countries (eg. Germany, Austria,... not sure where else). Selling before the 1 year holding is usually taxable as income tax (which also varies wildly between member states), selling after the holding period is usually taxable as capital gains tax (or not at all, if you're lucky). Either way, look closely into how each country handles taxation.

Yes, I know. Assuming it's one of the countries that do that, how would reporting work? I don't think you'd have to report then, right? Why do you say "if you're lucky?"

With "lucky" i mean if you're lucky to be tax resident of one of the countries that don't tax Bitcoin gains after the 1 year holding period Smiley

If you're a tax resident of Germany or Austria and are not required to pay taxes due to the 1 year holding period... you're also not required to report anything. It supposedly may prevent you some paperwork a couple years down, but in principle you're not obliged to report those gains.

If you have to pay income tax because you sold prior to the 1 year holding period, you need to fill out the respective income tax forms and the ministry of finance will tell you how much tax you owe. Of course you could just... not report it... but then if they find out you'll be on the hook for tax evasion.

I can only talk about Austria and Germany though, as I'm a tax resident of the former and have some connections to the latter. Other European countries may handle this differently.


3) In which country you bought the Bitcoin originally doesn't matter. You should be able to prove holding time though. Arguably referring to the blockchain may suffice, but as far as I know there has been no precedence on how to report holding time correctly so far -- and you can also expect that what counts as proof for holding time will vary wildly between EU member states.

Well, has anyone reported time so far? Has it worked? What's the point of guidance on these things if a tax payer can't report it properly or it won't get accepted?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm afraid we're on uncharted territory, my friend.


4) You pay tax in the country you reside in, assuming you have already taken full residency and have become a tax resident. At which point you become a tax resident depends on the country you move to and likely also where you are originally emigrating from (ie. immigrants from non-EU member states have to follow different rules than immigrants from EU member states. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a set of rules specifically for immigrants from the US). Prepare for paperwork as you likely won't become a tax resident automatically, but also will need to become a tax resident at one point to be allowed to legally stay there for a prolonged period of time -- assuming you don't have citizenship already.

That sounds insanely complicated... I have no idea how to go about this.

It's simple in that the basic principle is that you have to pay taxes in the country that you live in. It's complicated in that each European country handles immigration differently. If you pick one country and really look into it, the process should be rather straightforward.
2549  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: how to get taxed on bitcion for LT gain on: January 10, 2018, 01:59:19 AM
What's your tax residency? Some countries (eg. Germany) tax mining as regular income -- based on the exchange rate at the time of mining payout -- regardless of holding time.
I would really want to know about this, does that mean that if at the point of payout bitcoin is $15000 and Op have to hold till next year and price has increased to say $20000 when he is converting to fiat. Will he be subjected to tax at $15000 or $20000 or its the margin that would be paid as tax and if the price falls to say $10000, would he be entitled to a refund?

Usually you have to pay income tax in advance based on your estimated profit for the year. If you overpay, you'll get a refund. If you pay too little, you'll have to pay additional taxes and they will estimate a higher profit for the following year (unless you give them a good reason to assume otherwise, eg. when you expect to shut down your mining operation).

To clarify what profit means in this case: Say you receive two mining payouts during the year. 1.0 BTC while BTC is at EUR 15,000,- and 0.5 BTC while BTC is at EUR 10,000,-. Your taxable profits are now EUR 20,000,- regardless of BTC being at EUR 5,000,- or EUR 50,000,- at the end of the year and regardless of when and at which price you sell. So if at the end of the day you owe them, say EUR 5,000,- in taxes, that's all they want. They don't care whether you had to sell 0.1 BTC or 1.0 BTC. Note that no additional tax is applied to this sale -- or any future sale of your remaining BTC after that.

The bad news is, if BTC crashed to EUR 1,000,- and you didn't cash your taxes out before that, you'd have to sell all your BTC and would still owe them money.

The good news is, you get to deduct the cost of your mining equipment and electricity from your taxable profits.
2550  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: US/Euro accountants to minimize bitcoin tax? on: January 10, 2018, 01:26:40 AM
Even undocumented immigrants citizens pay taxes because its deducted from their income before payment how much more a citizen who is well documented. [...]

Are we still talking EU? EU employers will automatically deduct your taxes, that is correct, but as far as I know they can only do so with registered employees that have a working permit.


Wait. What you're saying is that if I withdraw a portion of bitcoins (I myself don't own any) in Europe, I'd be taxed on them even if I held them for over 1 year, but bought them in another country originally? Or do I pay the tax in the country I now reside in, even though I just moved a few months ago? [...]

1) Taxes on Bitcoin sales do not get automatically deducted in any European country, you will have to file tax reports yourself.

2) Taxes vary wildly between EU member states. Not just in regards to crypto. Be aware that the tax-free-after-1-year-of-holding rule only applies to a handful of countries (eg. Germany, Austria,... not sure where else). Selling before the 1 year holding is usually taxable as income tax (which also varies wildly between member states), selling after the holding period is usually taxable as capital gains tax (or not at all, if you're lucky). Either way, look closely into how each country handles taxation.

3) In which country you bought the Bitcoin originally doesn't matter. You should be able to prove holding time though. Arguably referring to the blockchain may suffice, but as far as I know there has been no precedence on how to report holding time correctly so far -- and you can also expect that what counts as proof for holding time will vary wildly between EU member states.

4) You pay tax in the country you reside in, assuming you have already taken full residency and have become a tax resident. At which point you become a tax resident depends on the country you move to and likely also where you are originally emigrating from (ie. immigrants from non-EU member states have to follow different rules than immigrants from EU member states. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a set of rules specifically for immigrants from the US). Prepare for paperwork as you likely won't become a tax resident automatically, but also will need to become a tax resident at one point to be allowed to legally stay there for a prolonged period of time -- assuming you don't have citizenship already.
2551  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Shall we be afraid of bitcoin ? on: January 09, 2018, 04:23:49 PM
Do you think people understand that it is just money changing hands like if you were making and selling new paintings ?

Isn't that just markets in general?

It's merely a question of whether more people enter or leave the market (ie. profit takers vs new money). There's a lot of cash lying around, since stock markets are arguably overheated as well and bonds are a losing proposition right now. Sooner or later this cash has to be invested somewhere...
2552  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: how to get taxed on bitcion for LT gain on: January 09, 2018, 03:17:21 PM
What's your tax residency? Some countries (eg. Germany) tax mining as regular income -- based on the exchange rate at the time of mining payout -- regardless of holding time.
2553  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: US/Euro accountants to minimize bitcoin tax? on: January 09, 2018, 01:54:39 PM
Citizenship alone is insufficient, you also need to be a registered resident in one of the low tax EU countries to achieve tax residency.

As long as you are an US citizen, the IRS will try to get after you regardless of tax residency. The outcome will depend on the tax treaty between the respective countries, but expect additional paperwork regardless.

As far as I know if you've ever been an US citizen or resident, the IRS will try to get after you even after you've long left both the citizenship and the country behind. You likely won't owe them anything, but they'll haunt you regardless.


Not an expert in the field though, just based on my general knowledge as an EU tax payer and on anecdotes I've heard from my tax advisor. Your friend's mileage may vary and there might be loopholes that I'm not aware of.
2554  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What happens to transaction speed/cost after all BTC is mined? on: January 09, 2018, 11:08:21 AM
So u think that price of tx will only increase in time?

It could also mean a decline of network hashrate until a new equilibrium is reached.


Otherwise:

1) The cost of transaction fees in terms of BTC depends on how many people make on-chain transactions.

2) The cost of transaction fees in terms of fiat depends on 1) and the BTC / fiat exchange rate.


We have no control over 2) but we can work on 1) by moving a majority of transactions off-chain using 2nd layer solutions.


The remaining Bitcoin would be moving around the market through transactions. This can change is if Bitcoin protocol changes and allows for a larger supply to be added.

Adding a larger supply would just lead to an alt coin hardfork, as it is unlikely that such a protocol change would get accepted as the canonical Bitcoin.
2555  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What do you say to the naysayers even now as BTC and Crypto reaches $1Trillion? on: January 08, 2018, 05:26:57 PM
There are so many critics out there in the world, but as every day passes, we see the market cap of Cryptos get closer to $1 Trillion.

At what market cap will these critics turn out to be suppoters?

Do they need to see every single human being use it before they decide to join in on the finance revolution?

Market cap gets people's attention but does not convince them in the long run. People that get "convinced" merely by market cap lose their conviction just as fast when the market busts. It's only when people start looking beyond market cap that they become true supporters -- or constructive critics. Regardless of whether they are invested or not.


[...]

(Yes, it’s unfair for me to use a misleading chart but tough luck - cryptocurrencies are in a massive bubble and I am going to do my part to pop it before more people put their life savings into cryptocurrencies.)

How exactly does one approach this? Do you try educating people on the limitations of crypto or are you simply telling people that cryptocurrencies are in a massive bubble?
2556  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: How to hold the top 20 coins properly? on: January 07, 2018, 12:11:46 AM
You'll likely have to rely on a mix of 1) a hardware wallet with broad alt support and 2) desktop and web wallets, depending on what is available. Be extra careful when it comes to desktop wallets, as for some alts there's malware out there that tries to sell itself as an official wallet.

Paper wallets would be the most secure option beside a hardware wallet of course, but given the general lack of support and you likely having to shift around a lot, it's up to you decide whether they are worth the effort.
2557  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: coin mineable VS coin not mineable VS token on: January 07, 2018, 12:00:37 AM
Hello,

I have googled but it cannot give my a satisfied answer. Please kindly help:
1. what is the difference between coin not mineable VS token? As my understanding, all these types (coin not mineable and token) are all appeared/existed at the 1st day that the developers created them, right?! so, they are different in technical things?!

when I say Coin Not MIneable, I mean: when I check Coinmarketcap, they show us: sometimes Coin, sometimes Coin Mineable or Token (premined bla bla..)

Mineable cryptocurrencies get decentrally issued to miners, as part of their work in securing the network (or to stakers, in the case of Proof of Stake).

Non-mineable cryptocurrencies get centrally issued by the developers / companies that released the currency. This is usually happening in the form of token sales, airdrops, bounty campaigns, etc.

There are some minable cryptocurrencies that have in part been centrally issued.


2. Can Token be Coin later? I might be not correct, but I remembered ADA on Coinmarketcap, they used to marked ADA as a token, but now i checked it said Coin (Coin without the word "mineable" I will say it "Coin Not Mineable)

Token and Coin mean more or less the same thing -- it's a unit of value as part of a cryptocurrency. Coins usually have their own blockchain (or similar) while Tokens most commonly are issued on an already existing blockchain by a central entity.


3. coin mineable VS coin not mineable :  am I right to think: Coin not minable: all coins will be available when people create it? Coin minable: Miners take time to get it and deliver to others people.

Mostly correct. Sometimes even non-mineable coins are released in batches and not all at once by their respective project team.


Currently I just invest in Coin that is mineable because I see btc/eth/ltc is minable. Do I need to adjust my mindset?!

All answers/ ideas are really appreciated. Thank you so much for take time.  Smiley

Depends. If you care about decentralization you're on the right path. The issue with non-mineable currencies being centrally issued and sold should be obvious, although in the case of ICOs where they sometimes represent "shares" of a "company" this might be forgiven. ICOs have  problems in their own right though, being prone to scams, vaporware and failing startups.
2558  Bitcoin / Legal / Re: Rise of Crypto Bookkeepers and Accountant on: January 06, 2018, 11:41:17 PM
Apparently there are already people offering tax advise on Fiverr, regardless of crypto. I don't see Fiverr becoming much of a platform for tax advisors on an international scale though, since unlike programming or graphic design location matters when it comes to tax advise -- ie. with skilled programmers / designers it doesn't matter much where they come from but even a skilled tax advisor won't help if they are not familiar with your local tax laws.

Either way I expect accountants / tax advisors to catch up with the game and learn how to handle cryptocurrencies within their respective country. Keeping up with current taxation laws is part of their job after all. I can very well imagine more tax advisors focusing their expertise on cryptocurrencies though, especially as more companies get involved.
2559  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin vs "Dot Com 'bubble'" on: January 06, 2018, 10:43:09 AM
Yet we can be pretty sure that we are not at the tipping point yet.

This whole market is certainly a bubble. The question is how long can it be ridden upwards.

Indeed. It's a bit worrying, as the crash will be all the more harder. I guess it can't be helped though.


And BTW, even after the 80% Market cap drop some theorize will happen "soon", just like Amazon and others during the tech boom, the major coins that survive the collapse will reach new ATHs as they are integrated more fully into society.

So coins like Bitcoin, Ethereum, and sadly Ripple (very overpriced right now, but the banks support it, so it will stay) will be here for the long haul.

Being there for the long haul won't protect any coin from tanking hard though. Once the time comes, some coins will be hit harder than others, at which point we'll see how much of each respective price was real and how much of it was market manipulation and wishful thinking.
2560  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin vs "Dot Com 'bubble'" on: January 05, 2018, 07:23:40 PM
[...]

People back in the days didn't had the technical skills that you are talking about. It was just pump money into anything having to do with the internet, and that was really it.

[...]

Replace the word "internet" with the word "blockchain" and you pretty much get today's market, unfortunately.


[...]

We could have been in a bubble recently or some may still feel we are in a bubble, but this is a market that is driven by supply and demand and as long as what you are holding is always going to be useful and solves a huge problem, which I believe bitcoin and some other coins will do, then I would not classify it as a dot com bubble kind of thing.

That's the tricky part though. Something can be useful and still be a bad investment. To succeed, you need to find something that is useful, solves a huge problem and is not severly overpriced by the market. The last point being especially hard to asses in our case, given that crypto is a new asset class without precedent that one could meaningfully refer to.
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