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2561  Other / Politics & Society / Re: If you're trying to breathe, you're resisting arrest, cardiac arrest that is! on: June 10, 2020, 06:59:39 AM

Anyway, I am curious as to how often people under arrest falsely claim to be unable to breathe. 


Quite often.  Usually when they're on drugs and fighting. My department had another one just yesterday. But the four officers properly controlled him, kept him upright, and detained against a guardrail til EMS got there to Ketamine the guy. 
   The hospital called a few hours later and to quote the work email, the doctor said “had they pinned him down on his stomach, he could have easily fought till he coded”.

The other one we see a lot is the phantom "chest pains" when they don't want to go to jail. False 99% of the time based on my 2 decades of experience. But, we still have a duty to render aid, so EMS gets called out.
Appearently an ambulance was called. If the cries for help is an everyday occurrence, if the other officers were not in a position to see how Chauvin's knee was placed, it may not be reasonable to hold them accountable, depending on the specific procedures of their department, and considering they were still in training. At the very least, I would reserve judgment until the trial. 
2562  Other / Politics & Society / Re: 2020 Democrats on: June 10, 2020, 06:15:28 AM
He tries to stay out of the public light, though I'm not sure how long that's going to be possible for -- once the Debates start and all of that, Biden is going to have to show up.

Debates are gonna be interesting, if you're a fan of cringe TV. But I don't think it will change much. I mean - how much did you remember from the debates by the time of the 2016 election and how much do you think it helped either candidate?

I'm not even kidding I think the 2016 elections was decided in those last couple days, the debates were fierce and obviously very interesting to watch. At the time, it reaffirmed the fact that Trump wasn't going to be a traditional president, and people wanted that. People wanted to throw a grenade into D.C and pray that it would work to 'drain the swamp' and fix the issues.

While I'll still call myself a conservative (maybe learning more moderate these days) -- I don't think it worked in reforming the government.


The swamp fought back and fought back hard. The Obama FBI was in the middle of a baseless investigation that derailed the first two years of Trump's presidency, and probably got Democrats control over congress in 2018. Trump has struggled to implement his agenda at every turn, having ~all his cabinet nominations held up in the Senate that only resulted in the maximum debate time used with little if any actual debate and no minds changed. He has had to deal with an unprecedented number of "nationwide injunctions" that were previously nearly unheard of. More recently, it appears the Pentagon had undermined Trump's ability to call active-duty troops to protect the US from an insurrection.
2563  Other / Politics & Society / Re: If you're trying to breathe, you're resisting arrest, cardiac arrest that is! on: June 10, 2020, 06:05:32 AM
Eric Garner said I can't breathe 11 times, he was pronounced dead an hour later.
He also continued resisting arrest while saying he was unable to breathe. If you are in an altercation with someone and you cannot breathe, you should submit, not ask for mercy. He was being lawfully arrested, and being lawfully arrested involves using force. If the police were not able to use force to lawfully arrest suspects, all anyone would need to do is resist arrest, and you could do whatever you wanted, including harm other people.

I have lived within walking distance to a popular bar in my city, and some number of years ago the cops were wrestling a big dude, trying to arrest him, and put him in handcuffs, lots of people were watching. During the skirmish, he was claiming to be unable to breathe, yet he continued to fight back. At one point he what I assumed to pretend to pass out, the police put what I assume to be smelling salts to his nose, he made a funny face and continued to struggle. Eventually, he was put in handcuffs and tried to fight being put into the police car. I remember one person saying "there is no way this guy is going to jail tonight" after he was handcuffed. It was amazing how many people were around who were either medical or legal experts who were able to give their opinion on the matter. One girl claimed to be a paramedic but couldn't attend to him because she "was drunk".

Anyway, I am curious as to how often people under arrest falsely claim to be unable to breathe. 


I'm thinking that Chauvin is going to get charged with second degree Murder and even if he does life, the guy isn't going to survive prison. He's probably going to be murdered by someone who is doing life without parole.
My bet is the DA will intentionally botch the case with the hope it will cause more riots, and to push the false narrative that racist police can kill black people with impunity. Hopefully, Trump will be able to successfully bring civil rights charges against him that will carry substantial jail time.

Two of the four cops were still on their probationary period,
This is an important point. According to their lawyers, one of them was on the job for 4 days, and both (of the two) were being trained by Chauvin. This means that Chauvin had some level of control over two of the officers. This changes my perspective as to what happened with regards to the other officers. I don't see the other officers being able to find any kind of employment for years. This is especially true considering everyone in the US is now subject to the Social Credit System.
2564  Other / Politics & Society / Re: BLM protestors: British antique bronze statue toppled and tossed into harbour on: June 08, 2020, 11:05:59 PM
Is it okay to deface property that does not belong to you? No.

It is okay to change public policy (the statute) just because a small number of people don't like it without the consent of the people? No.

It appears the insurrection is spreading from the US to other Western countries.

Was it ok to toss the Tea into the Boston harbor?  No.  But also yeah.

The Boston tea party was an act of war against a dictator (monarch). I would think twice before comparing what is happening to the Boston tea party. I don’t think these thugs would win in a war.

You can hardly compare today to being ruled by a dictator.

Ok.

What about the civil rights movement, or the protests against the Vietnam war?

Why do we have a federal holiday for this guy:

[img ]https://i.gyazo.com/b3b7868fe1c3d7ba3cddc8e253773171.png[/img]

[img ]https://i.gyazo.com/815a7b4c2a9a08a9c8afd6b6bcc60e16.png[/img]
I don't think any of those people ever set anything on fire...


You cannot defend what these people did. Nor can you defend any of the riots.
2565  Other / Politics & Society / Re: BLM protestors: British antique bronze statue toppled and tossed into harbour on: June 08, 2020, 08:18:07 PM
Is it okay to deface property that does not belong to you? No.

It is okay to change public policy (the statute) just because a small number of people don't like it without the consent of the people? No.

It appears the insurrection is spreading from the US to other Western countries.

Was it ok to toss the Tea into the Boston harbor?  No.  But also yeah.

The Boston tea party was an act of war against a dictator (monarch). I would think twice before comparing what is happening to the Boston tea party. I don’t think these thugs would win in a war.

You can hardly compare today to being ruled by a dictator.
2566  Other / Politics & Society / Re: BLM protestors: British antique bronze statue toppled and tossed into harbour on: June 08, 2020, 06:08:20 AM

And there were at least hundreds in that crowd, no police seemed to intervene either. I can't think anyone would stand on the side of a slave owner especially in this country...
My assumption is the mayor of Bristol ordered the police not to intervene.

I am not familiar with the person, or why there is a statue of him up, however, I would repeat my previous points that if the electorate believes it should come down, they should vote as such. I condemn "mob rule" no matter how bad a person the mob is attacking.
2567  Other / Politics & Society / Re: BLM protestors: British antique bronze statue toppled and tossed into harbour on: June 07, 2020, 10:57:41 PM
Is it okay to deface property that does not belong to you? No.

It is okay to change public policy (the statute) just because a small number of people don't like it without the consent of the people? No.

It appears the insurrection is spreading from the US to other Western countries.
2568  Economy / Reputation / Re: WHERE IS TMAN? for 1 month of inactivity 🤔🤔 on: June 05, 2020, 11:27:23 PM
Okay I made up the stuff about Tman having a religious awakening/ becoming a goat herder etc.
Why would you do that? What if someone IRL was looking for him and stopped when they saw that someone he knows has knowledge that TMAN is safe?

If someone’s whereabouts are unknown, you shouldn’t claim to know where a person is if this isn’t true.

I knew it was a joke.   I miss TMAN.  Sad
Well let’s hope he is okay wherever he is. Also hopefully no one stopped looking for him based on that post.
2569  Economy / Reputation / Re: WHERE IS TMAN? for 1 month of inactivity 🤔🤔 on: June 05, 2020, 08:46:52 PM
Okay I made up the stuff about Tman having a religious awakening/ becoming a goat herder etc.
Why would you do that? What if someone IRL was looking for him and stopped when they saw that someone he knows has knowledge that TMAN is safe?

If someone’s whereabouts are unknown, you shouldn’t claim to know where a person is if this isn’t true.
2570  Other / Politics & Society / Re: 'Trump Designates Antifa "A Terrorist Organization"' on: June 04, 2020, 06:29:15 PM
Bill Bar just arrested 51 people on federal rioting charges related to the recent rioting throughout the US. Hopefully he will be able to make more arrests and that the destruction will stop.

The question is, will they get a slap on the wrist? Or will they be made to pay damages lost and extra for time lost?

Cool
The local DAs are mostly allowing the thugs out without bail and will probably end up dropping the charges. I don’t think this is true for any Federal charges anyone gets. I wouldn’t be surprised if Biden were to pardon them on his first day in office if elected though.

Are you grouping all the protesters, from curfew violator to arson/assault/theft, as thugs?

Or do you mean they are mostly letting the people arrested for violent crimes or theft out without bail.


https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/those-arrested-over-two-nights-of-protests-and-unrest-in-st-louis-released-from-jail/article_6c06a78f-b9f3-59f2-842f-0d6c466e84e5.html

Take a look at the above article. I have my doubts that there are a lot of people getting arrested for being out past curfew. If there are and these people are not also being charged with other crimes, the police are arresting the wrong people and more importantly, are letting the wrong people off Scott free.
2571  Other / Politics & Society / Re: 'Trump Designates Antifa "A Terrorist Organization"' on: June 04, 2020, 05:46:01 PM
Bill Bar just arrested 51 people on federal rioting charges related to the recent rioting throughout the US. Hopefully he will be able to make more arrests and that the destruction will stop.

The question is, will they get a slap on the wrist? Or will they be made to pay damages lost and extra for time lost?

Cool
The local DAs are mostly allowing the thugs out without bail and will probably end up dropping the charges. I don’t think this is true for any Federal charges anyone gets. I wouldn’t be surprised if Biden were to pardon them on his first day in office if elected though.
2572  Other / Politics & Society / Re: 'Trump Designates Antifa "A Terrorist Organization"' on: June 04, 2020, 05:26:36 PM
Bill Bar just arrested 51 people on federal rioting charges related to the recent rioting throughout the US. Hopefully he will be able to make more arrests and that the destruction will stop.
2573  Other / Politics & Society / Re: 'Trump Designates Antifa "A Terrorist Organization"' on: June 02, 2020, 04:42:36 PM
you really need to have some mush in your brain to say that  :

Anti-fascist = terrorist

And then on the other hand :


Antifa is a fascist organization, despite their name. This is similar to North Korea having Democratic in it. They claim anything they disagree with is “fascist” which is similar to how many on the left claim that anytime someone disagrees with their stance, they are “racist”.

Police in the majority of cities are not arresting rioters, except in the most egregious cases, and this is not even happening all the time.

Over 4,000 arrests have been made as of last night:
https://apnews.com/55933b8695e36337a6bfe96728b3e7f3

There's plenty of footage showing that many of the arrests were peaceful and made for violating the curfew or having an unlawful assembly.  
I am not concerned with unlawful assembly, I am concerned with people burning buildings, shooting cops, breaking windows, stealing from stores, and beating people. The rioters have been able to act with impunity. Here is the proof, the riots are continuing and are getting worse. Arresting someone with unlawful assembly usually amounts to being in handcuffs for a few hours, being released and getting a fine that won’t get paid. The rioters should be facing years/decades in prison.

Quote
If you look at who is defending who and whose statements have been debunked, you should get an idea as to what is true. On the left, politicians are directing police to not arrest rioters and are in some cases defending them. They are being called out for what they are on the right.
I'm trying to find a politician that is calling police to not arrest rioters, but can't.  I'm seeing lots of statements condemning violence and looting while also supporting peaceful protests and condemning all the footage of police abusing their power during protests.
The mayors and governors are in charge of the police force and National Guard response. If rioters are not being arrested, this is because they have been ordered not to, or have been ordered to arrest people in certain circumstances.

Many in the left wing media have been defending the riots.  

Quote
In Minnesota, elected officials had said that over 80% of rioters were from out of town and that White supremacy groups are instigating the riots, however arrest records show that most arrested are not from out of the state.
I assume you're referring to the governor, who made it pretty clear he couldn't confirm it and his suspicion was based on national reports.  He also walked back his estimate that 80% being out of state when the arrest data came out.
Yes, he has not offered any proof. The rioters are not white supremacy groups, here is my proof, if they were, left wing extremists celebrities would not be donating millions collectively to bail them out of jail.

Quote

Also, to prove a point about the funding of Antifa, there are videos of people going to piles of bricks in the middle of cities. How would a pile of random bricks get to the middle of a street?  Here is an example
https://mobile.twitter.com/fleccas/status/1267326702771793920
Very well could be antifa.  Wouldn't be surprised if the Bricks belonged to the owner of the closest building which had scaffolding up either.
That wasn’t the only video I saw of that happening. Here is better evidence
https://mobile.twitter.com/ColumbusPolice/status/1267568211370934272

I don’t think the bricks belonged to any building nearby.


I have noticed there is a lot of propaganda. There is actually a troubling amount of propaganda, to the extent that the presence of this much propaganda bothers me.
2574  Other / Politics & Society / Re: 'Trump Designates Antifa "A Terrorist Organization"' on: June 01, 2020, 02:57:26 PM

Interesting.  The threat of aggressive prosecution seems like it would be the most effective way to reduce crime.  From what I can tell antifa is more of a movement than any sort of organization though. No real structure or evidence that they are well funded.  My guess is they just organize themselves online and agree when and where to show up ready to create chaos.  

Even if they were an organization, wouldn't it be unconstitutional to make it a crime to 'support' them as  in: wear an Antifa t-shirt or hold an antifa sign at a protest?  You'd have to actually give them money or train them to do something illegal...which is already illegal (something like aiding and abetting).  Just making it illegal to protest or show support would be....facism...right?

<>
Here is the statutory definition of the types of support that would be prohibited if anifta was designed a terrorist organization. The punishment for providing material support to a foreign terrorist organization faces 20 years in prison, or a life sentence if their support can be attributed to the death of someone.

I don't think wearing an antifa tea shirt would qualify, however, I also don't think antifa has tea shirts, as from what I have heard on news reports, and read on news reports, they like to keep their identities secret, and use violence to prevent anyone from filing them. My understanding is they primarily engage in violence and intimidation of citizens. I also understand they have operated in Washington state for quite some time with impunity, in broad daylight. This implies they have some politicians in their pockets who are preventing them from being prosecuted.

You are not able to have riots in many cities across the US all starting on the same day (Friday) without funding. Airline prices (and hotel) are low right now, so the cost of getting professional protestors into place may be cheaper than it would normally be. I have heard on the news that police have found numerous cars with "stashes" of rioting supplies that rioters were going to in order to cause damage in multiple cities. This implies they are fairly well funded.

I also know there are some "freedom funds" that are being used to bail out people who are arrested. This may also fall under the above-referenced definition of "support".

There's lots of money being raised to bail people out of jail.  But don't assume that the people raising it, or the people donating support antifa or are encouraging violence though.  Many people are being peacefully arrested minutes after curfew as an act of civil disobedience, paying their bail is one way to show them support.  

In general I think now more than ever is a time to be skeptical of anymedia report or political statement.  We're witnessing a propaganda battle from both sides that's in many way similar to what happened in New England during the late 1760s.  Protests, riots, and civil disobedience, followed by both sides spreading as much propaganda as possible about the events to make the other side look as evil as possible with little regard for the truth.  All that matters is you convince as many people as possible that whichever side you're on behaved honorably and the other side were horrible villains.

I don't mean to imply that the current 'left' or 'right' are the same as either the loyalists or patriots.  I'm not really confident in any of my assumptions on what's actually happening - just hoping this is all over soon.  It's sad to watch.
Police in the majority of cities are not arresting rioters, except in the most egregious cases, and this is not even happening all the time.

If you look at who is defending who and whose statements have been debunked, you should get an idea as to what is true. On the left, politicians are directing police to not arrest rioters and are in some cases defending them. They are being called out for what they are on the right.

In Minnesota, elected officials had said that over 80% of rioters were from out of town and that White supremacy groups are instigating the riots, however arrest records show that most arrested are not from out of the state.

There are also many on the left that are donating money to those arrested to post bail, and again, most rioters are not getting arrested, let alone protestors. To me, money speaks louder than words, if White suppremists were out there rioting, those on the left would not be defending the riots, and they would not be giving money to get them out of jail.

Also, to prove a point about the funding of Antifa, there are videos of people going to piles of bricks in the middle of cities. How would a pile of random bricks get to the middle of a street?  Here is an example
https://mobile.twitter.com/fleccas/status/1267326702771793920
2575  Other / Politics & Society / Re: [BET] Trump or not Trump 2020, eddie13 vs suchmoon on: June 01, 2020, 01:38:31 PM

There is pretty strong evidence that extremist groups are involved in the riots.
It's not a question of whether or not they're involved.  They are.  It's a question of how involved they are.  Naturally Trump would like the as many Americans as possible, and also the world to believe that the protests were instigated by a small group of radical extremists that hate America and are not in any way evidence of any serious, big picture underlying issue that America will need to face.  Basically he's saying 'nothing to see here - the people protesting are the enemy of the country and I will make sure they get what they deserve'.
From what I have read, it doesn’t take much to cause a lot of havoc at a protest/gathering. Just look at what was happening at Trump campaign events in 2016.

If the above is not the case, I would expect a Oval Office Presidential address calling for calm and peace. I am not sure how effective this would be considering the rioters are professional, however it may make the rioters easier to deal with (and arrest) if it gets people to largely stop protesting. This may still result in the National guard being nationalized. This attack seems to have caught our intelligence agencies largely off guard. Trumps election prospects likely largely hinge on his ability to stop the riots.

A unifying message from the Oval Office would be nice but I highly doubt this will do anything to hurt Trump's election chances. If anything, it might increase his odds because nearly everyone can agree Floyd's killing was not representative of good police work. Rioting and looting like morons while setting buildings on fire are not peaceful protests  People are going to look for the President to take a tough stance against people trying to cause chaos and Trump is the only President that would ever openly call for shooting looters. Doesn't sound so bad when videos are being released of people being beaten for defending their own small business from deranged thugs.
At the end of the day, the riots need to stop. If the protests stop, there won’t be a venue for the riots.
2576  Other / Politics & Society / Re: [BET] Trump or not Trump 2020, eddie13 vs suchmoon on: June 01, 2020, 07:54:56 AM
someone is doing something to harm the US, and in turn, harm Trump's election prospects

Either that, or Trump is capable only of inflaming crises, not solving them. We'll never know for sure.
I agree, Trump has been poor with his messaging, but I was referring to prior to when Trump would have reasonably even had been aware of the incident.


There is pretty strong evidence that extremist groups are involved in the riots.


Trump has been strangely quiet today. The secret service received significant backup from multiple agencies to protect the White House, and there is a news headline that car bombs are feared (but there is nothing in the article) near the White House. It is unclear if Trump is currently in the White House Bunker, however the White House lights are off, so I would presume there is at least some kind of credible threat. I am not sure if he would be secretly evacuated if the threat was severe enough, and if so, I presume he would leave his phone behind. The amount of agencies, that included the ATF, being called to assist almost made it seem like there was a panic in DC.

If there is a credible threat, especially if explosives are found, I would expect the National Guard to be nationalized in much of the country, and the protests part of what is going on to largely stop. If this happens, I would expect Trump to win in a landslide. Democrat mayors and other officials who were declining to condemn the riots, and in some cases even supports the riots would likely be largely voted out of office.

If the above is not the case, I would expect a Oval Office Presidential address calling for calm and peace. I am not sure how effective this would be considering the rioters are professional, however it may make the rioters easier to deal with (and arrest) if it gets people to largely stop protesting. This may still result in the National guard being nationalized. This attack seems to have caught our intelligence agencies largely off guard. Trumps election prospects likely largely hinge on his ability to stop the riots.
2577  Other / Politics & Society / Re: 'Trump Designates Antifa "A Terrorist Organization"' on: June 01, 2020, 06:29:37 AM

Interesting.  The threat of aggressive prosecution seems like it would be the most effective way to reduce crime.  From what I can tell antifa is more of a movement than any sort of organization though. No real structure or evidence that they are well funded.  My guess is they just organize themselves online and agree when and where to show up ready to create chaos. 

Even if they were an organization, wouldn't it be unconstitutional to make it a crime to 'support' them as  in: wear an Antifa t-shirt or hold an antifa sign at a protest?  You'd have to actually give them money or train them to do something illegal...which is already illegal (something like aiding and abetting).  Just making it illegal to protest or show support would be....facism...right?

<>
Here is the statutory definition of the types of support that would be prohibited if anifta was designed a terrorist organization. The punishment for providing material support to a foreign terrorist organization faces 20 years in prison, or a life sentence if their support can be attributed to the death of someone.

I don't think wearing an antifa tea shirt would qualify, however, I also don't think antifa has tea shirts, as from what I have heard on news reports, and read on news reports, they like to keep their identities secret, and use violence to prevent anyone from filing them. My understanding is they primarily engage in violence and intimidation of citizens. I also understand they have operated in Washington state for quite some time with impunity, in broad daylight. This implies they have some politicians in their pockets who are preventing them from being prosecuted.

You are not able to have riots in many cities across the US all starting on the same day (Friday) without funding. Airline prices (and hotel) are low right now, so the cost of getting professional protestors into place may be cheaper than it would normally be. I have heard on the news that police have found numerous cars with "stashes" of rioting supplies that rioters were going to in order to cause damage in multiple cities. This implies they are fairly well funded.

I also know there are some "freedom funds" that are being used to bail out people who are arrested. This may also fall under the above-referenced definition of "support".
2578  Other / Politics & Society / Re: 'Trump Designates Antifa "A Terrorist Organization"' on: June 01, 2020, 01:09:42 AM
After ~20 seconds he got tackled by a bunch of people.  They beat the shit out him, flipped his car and set it on fire.

He may have deserved some beating (or rather restraining) depending on the circumstances - it's hard to tell from the choppy videos how real his threat was or what provoked it. Certainly didn't deserve a skateboard to the head though. Certainly didn't deserve his car torched even if it's a Dodge Caliber. It looks like people lose all sense of perspective or restraint when there's more that a few in one place. Knock him out, take away his bow, anything beyond that is just savagery.
I don’t think knocking him out would be justified. Maybe knocking him down. Given the number of people that swarmed him, he was probably no longer a threat before the first punch was thrown from the front.
2579  Other / Politics & Society / Re: 'Trump Designates Antifa "A Terrorist Organization"' on: June 01, 2020, 12:46:12 AM
What exactly does this do, other than allow people to say 'they are terrorists, the president made it official'?
Will members of Antifa all still have the same constitutional rights as everyone else?  Will the FBI be able to investigate them in a way they couldn't previously?

This depends on if Trump is designating them a foreign terrorist organization or a domestic terrorist organization.

The qualifying factor appears to be that ANTIFA is a "foreign organization". It is unclear based on my initial research what the definition of a "foreign organization" is.

If they are designated a domestic terrorist organization, the designation appears to be largely symbolic. It would probably get some people to think twice before giving money, or other support to Antifa. It is also a signal to Antifa members that the feds are watching and are going to be bringing charges against Antifa members who engage in terrorism, which hopefully will get them to think twice before continuing to engage in terrorism. Antifa often operates in very liberal cities where law enforcement policies effectively allow them to wreak havoc without consequence. Bill Bar said anyone who crosses state lines, or uses the interstate system to commit a crime is committing a federal crime, which means that anyone using interstates to travel or purchase supplies could be charged with a federal crime. He may also extend the theory for people who use the internet to communicate to commit a crime, or the banking system to purchase supplies to commit a crime. I think both of these may or may not hold up in court, but they have the potential to scare people out of continuing to engage in terrorism.

Classifying Antifa as a foreign terrorist organization would have serious, real consequences. Their assets would be frozen, and anyone giving them support would be committing a serious crime.

I would not be surprised if Antifa is receiving money from foreign governments, and foreign people. It is also likely that Antifa's messages are being amplified by foreign governments on social media. I am not sure if either of these would be sufficient to classify Anifta as a "foreign terrorist organization", or if it would hold up in court. If they are classified as a foreign terrorist organization, I suspect a handful of members of congress and some in the liberal media will likely end facing charges.

Pointing a bow and arrow is not something that would justify beating the man. Self-defense is limited to removing the threat of harm, which was about 2 seconds after he was first hit by the mob. Setting his car on fire was completely unjustified under any circumstances.
2580  Other / Politics & Society / Re: 'Trump Designates Antifa "A Terrorist Organization"' on: May 31, 2020, 08:53:48 PM
So called Antifa people robs shops while MAGA people shoot people with bows.
Your bolded statement is missing a reference.

Antifa is doing more than robbing shops, they are terrorizing citizens, killing innocent people, and causing property damage to innocent people.

Bow guy:
https://twitter.com/Gingersonfire/status/1266884385854255104

Sword guy:
https://twitter.com/oracularrevenge/status/1266961337336414209
You forgot the part about how these people are "MAGA people"

Also, in both cases, the terrorists went way beyond self-defense in beating both of those people, and as such should be brought up on terrorism charges.
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