[BET] Trump or not Trump 2020, eddie13 vs suchmoon

[TwitchySeal]

someone is doing something to harm the US, and in turn, harm Trump's election prospects

Either that, or Trump is capable only of inflaming crises, not solving them. We'll never know for sure.

The best narrative for Trump to push right now is to convince people that these protestors are secretly being funded left wing extremists and the whole racism thing is just a ruse.

There will be tons of examples of people with signs for things like Antifa or the Communist Party of America jumping in on the riots - all he has to do is point to these instances and claim that they are proof that all the protestors are either extremists or being funded by extremists.

Same thing happens when the Proud Boys, David Duke(KKK) or some other alt right group show up to chant at a protest full of people who support Trump.

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[JollyGood]

Just exactly how will both the incumbent (Trump) and his challenger (Biden) manage to utilise these recent troubles in Minnesota to their advantage? Things related to riots after the death of the Minnesota citizen at the hands of their police department have spread way beyond the initial area and now across the country but how will the propaganda merchants hired by both the GOP and the Democratic machinery manipulate and present it to the masses?

[suchmoon]

Just exactly how will both the incumbent (Trump) and his challenger (Biden) manage to utilise these recent troubles in Minnesota to their advantage? Things related to riots after the death of the Minnesota citizen at the hands of their police department have spread way beyond the initial area and now across the country but how will the propaganda merchants hired by both the GOP and the Democratic machinery manipulate and present it to the masses?

Trump is the president so he's expected to actually do something to resolve the crisis. Biden only needs to avoid saying something stupid.

History shows that both these things are pretty much impossible for those two geezers so I'm guessing there will be no significant advantage for either one of them.

[TwitchySeal]

Just exactly how will both the incumbent (Trump) and his challenger (Biden) manage to utilise these recent troubles in Minnesota to their advantage? Things related to riots after the death of the Minnesota citizen at the hands of their police department have spread way beyond the initial area and now across the country but how will the propaganda merchants hired by both the GOP and the Democratic machinery manipulate and present it to the masses?

Biden:

I know that there are people all across this country who are suffering tonight. Suffering the loss of a loved one to intolerable circumstances, like the Floyd family, or to the virus that is still gripping our nation. Suffering economic hardships, whether due to COVID-19 or entrenched inequalities in our system. And I know that a grief that dark and deep may at times feel too heavy to bear.

I know.

And I also know that the only way to bear it is to turn all that anguish to purpose. So tonight, I ask all of America to join me — not in denying our pain or covering it over — but using it to compel our nation across this turbulent threshold into the next phase of progress, inclusion, and opportunity for our great democracy.

We are a nation in pain, but we must not allow this pain to destroy us. We are a nation enraged, but we cannot allow our rage to consume us. We are a nation exhausted, but we will not allow our exhaustion to defeat us.

https://medium.com/@JoeBiden/we-are-a-nation-furious-at-injustice-9dcffd81978f



Trump:

The professionally managed so-called “protesters” at the White House had little to do with the memory of George Floyd. They were just there to cause trouble. The @SecretService handled them easily. Tonight, I understand, is MAGA NIGHT AT THE WHITE HOUSE???

...These THUGS are dishonoring the memory of George Floyd, and I won’t let that happen. Just spoke to Governor Tim Walz and told him that the Military is with him all the way. Any difficulty and we will assume control but, when the looting starts, the shooting starts. Thank you!

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/

[squatz1]

Just exactly how will both the incumbent (Trump) and his challenger (Biden) manage to utilise these recent troubles in Minnesota to their advantage? Things related to riots after the death of the Minnesota citizen at the hands of their police department have spread way beyond the initial area and now across the country but how will the propaganda merchants hired by both the GOP and the Democratic machinery manipulate and present it to the masses?

Trump is the president so he's expected to actually do something to resolve the crisis. Biden only needs to avoid saying something stupid.

History shows that both these things are pretty much impossible for those two geezers so I'm guessing there will be no significant advantage for either one of them.

LOL. Here's an article from the NY Times directly going against Biden right now, so yeah -- no one is going to get an advantage out of this.

Though if Trump is able to convince his base (they're already convinced most likely) and the moderates that this protest is more riot then anything -- then they'll be able to 'win' the political maneuvering of this.

Ny Times Article - https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/us/politics/black-americans-democrats-trump.html

[JollyGood]

I agree with you but if common sense is applied it is clear Biden is the one who has most to gain from the backlash that was triggered in Minnesota whereas Trump has most to lose simply because he is the actual President.

Biden really needs to mostly stay quiet and not attract negative press over the issue then simply let Trump keep going with his press conferences and comments which just might contribute to him being a one-term President when things come to a head in the November 2020 Presidential elections.

If Trump can work his way around his words and race-relations improve along with confidence in the Police and the legal institutions across the USA then Trump just might be back for a second term and it might signal the end of the political career of Biden.

Just exactly how will both the incumbent (Trump) and his challenger (Biden) manage to utilise these recent troubles in Minnesota to their advantage? Things related to riots after the death of the Minnesota citizen at the hands of their police department have spread way beyond the initial area and now across the country but how will the propaganda merchants hired by both the GOP and the Democratic machinery manipulate and present it to the masses?

Trump is the president so he's expected to actually do something to resolve the crisis. Biden only needs to avoid saying something stupid.

History shows that both these things are pretty much impossible for those two geezers so I'm guessing there will be no significant advantage for either one of them.

[PrimeNumber7]

someone is doing something to harm the US, and in turn, harm Trump's election prospects

Either that, or Trump is capable only of inflaming crises, not solving them. We'll never know for sure.

I agree, Trump has been poor with his messaging, but I was referring to prior to when Trump would have reasonably even had been aware of the incident.

There is pretty strong evidence that extremist groups are involved in the riots.

Trump has been strangely quiet today. The secret service received significant backup from multiple agencies to protect the White House, and there is a news headline that car bombs are feared (but there is nothing in the article) near the White House. It is unclear if Trump is currently in the White House Bunker, however the White House lights are off, so I would presume there is at least some kind of credible threat. I am not sure if he would be secretly evacuated if the threat was severe enough, and if so, I presume he would leave his phone behind. The amount of agencies, that included the ATF, being called to assist almost made it seem like there was a panic in DC.

If there is a credible threat, especially if explosives are found, I would expect the National Guard to be nationalized in much of the country, and the protests part of what is going on to largely stop. If this happens, I would expect Trump to win in a landslide. Democrat mayors and other officials who were declining to condemn the riots, and in some cases even supports the riots would likely be largely voted out of office.

If the above is not the case, I would expect a Oval Office Presidential address calling for calm and peace. I am not sure how effective this would be considering the rioters are professional, however it may make the rioters easier to deal with (and arrest) if it gets people to largely stop protesting. This may still result in the National guard being nationalized. This attack seems to have caught our intelligence agencies largely off guard. Trumps election prospects likely largely hinge on his ability to stop the riots.

[TwitchySeal]

There is pretty strong evidence that extremist groups are involved in the riots.

It's not a question of whether or not they're involved.  They are.  It's a question of how involved they are.  Naturally Trump would like the as many Americans as possible, and also the world to believe that the protests were instigated by a small group of radical extremists that hate America and are not in any way evidence of any serious, big picture underlying issue that America will need to face.  Basically he's saying 'nothing to see here - the people protesting are the enemy of the country and I will make sure they get what they deserve'.

[Gyfts]

If the above is not the case, I would expect a Oval Office Presidential address calling for calm and peace. I am not sure how effective this would be considering the rioters are professional, however it may make the rioters easier to deal with (and arrest) if it gets people to largely stop protesting. This may still result in the National guard being nationalized. This attack seems to have caught our intelligence agencies largely off guard. Trumps election prospects likely largely hinge on his ability to stop the riots.

A unifying message from the Oval Office would be nice but I highly doubt this will do anything to hurt Trump's election chances. If anything, it might increase his odds because nearly everyone can agree Floyd's killing was not representative of good police work. Rioting and looting like morons while setting buildings on fire are not peaceful protests  People are going to look for the President to take a tough stance against people trying to cause chaos and Trump is the only President that would ever openly call for shooting looters. Doesn't sound so bad when videos are being released of people being beaten for defending their own small business from deranged thugs.

[PrimeNumber7]

There is pretty strong evidence that extremist groups are involved in the riots.

It's not a question of whether or not they're involved.  They are.  It's a question of how involved they are.  Naturally Trump would like the as many Americans as possible, and also the world to believe that the protests were instigated by a small group of radical extremists that hate America and are not in any way evidence of any serious, big picture underlying issue that America will need to face.  Basically he's saying 'nothing to see here - the people protesting are the enemy of the country and I will make sure they get what they deserve'.

From what I have read, it doesn’t take much to cause a lot of havoc at a protest/gathering. Just look at what was happening at Trump campaign events in 2016.

If the above is not the case, I would expect a Oval Office Presidential address calling for calm and peace. I am not sure how effective this would be considering the rioters are professional, however it may make the rioters easier to deal with (and arrest) if it gets people to largely stop protesting. This may still result in the National guard being nationalized. This attack seems to have caught our intelligence agencies largely off guard. Trumps election prospects likely largely hinge on his ability to stop the riots.

A unifying message from the Oval Office would be nice but I highly doubt this will do anything to hurt Trump's election chances. If anything, it might increase his odds because nearly everyone can agree Floyd's killing was not representative of good police work. Rioting and looting like morons while setting buildings on fire are not peaceful protests  People are going to look for the President to take a tough stance against people trying to cause chaos and Trump is the only President that would ever openly call for shooting looters. Doesn't sound so bad when videos are being released of people being beaten for defending their own small business from deranged thugs.

At the end of the day, the riots need to stop. If the protests stop, there won’t be a venue for the riots.

[squatz1]

I agree with you but if common sense is applied it is clear Biden is the one who has most to gain from the backlash that was triggered in Minnesota whereas Trump has most to lose simply because he is the actual President.

Biden really needs to mostly stay quiet and not attract negative press over the issue then simply let Trump keep going with his press conferences and comments which just might contribute to him being a one-term President when things come to a head in the November 2020 Presidential elections.

If Trump can work his way around his words and race-relations improve along with confidence in the Police and the legal institutions across the USA then Trump just might be back for a second term and it might signal the end of the political career of Biden.

Just exactly how will both the incumbent (Trump) and his challenger (Biden) manage to utilise these recent troubles in Minnesota to their advantage? Things related to riots after the death of the Minnesota citizen at the hands of their police department have spread way beyond the initial area and now across the country but how will the propaganda merchants hired by both the GOP and the Democratic machinery manipulate and present it to the masses?

Trump is the president so he's expected to actually do something to resolve the crisis. Biden only needs to avoid saying something stupid.

History shows that both these things are pretty much impossible for those two geezers so I'm guessing there will be no significant advantage for either one of them.

Common sense can't be applied in this day. Most of the things that Biden said throughout his campaign should've sunk it -- based on the weird things that he's said. And the same can be said for Trumps 2016 election and the upcoming 2020 one.

We literally broke the common sense theme this year when Biden - who will be the Democratic nominee, lost both Iowa and NH.

So yeah, not too much common sense and precedent can be applied.

[eddie13]

IDK guys...

The communists sure are putting a lot into their propaganda campaigns lately.. Have a lot of people all crazy about nonsense..

[guigui371]

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Code:

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Additional terms:

    No presidential election in 2020 (martial law, martians invading, etc) means a draw.
  ....

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It is interesting to see how you have the spark of mind to include this option back in december 2019.
The BLM / Floyd situation (not yet resolved) is a little bit early in the year to have an impact on the November elections (ie cancel them).
But who knows.... maybe more riots for later in the years (BLM or other social issues) and the martial law might be invoked.

[asianguy845]

I wouldn't lay money on it (because I'm poor lol), but I'm thinking Trump will win.
Biden has the popular vote right now because he's getting blackmailed by the black people. :/
I need Trump to win, I need low taxes lmao

[suchmoon]

It is interesting to see how you have the spark of mind to include this option back in december 2019.
The BLM / Floyd situation (not yet resolved) is a little bit early in the year to have an impact on the November elections (ie cancel them).
But who knows.... maybe more riots for later in the years (BLM or other social issues) and the martial law might be invoked.

As you can see by the reference to Martians I wasn't particularly serious about that possibility back then but with Trump's authoritarian leanings I think there's a non-zero chance of him trying to push the election around if he sees it not going his way. Rioting provides a good excuse it's just that it might not last until November. However... given the year we're having there could well be some other crisis or two at the convenient time. Even friggin' Martians are probably looking at this shit and thinking "let's just put face masks on and invade, nobody will see it coming".

[JollyGood]

The way you wrote the post seems clear Trump would like to spread fake news to manipulate the situation to favour him.

It is a brand new take on the whole "Fake News" allegations that Trump used to fire at the media.

~snip~

It's not a question of whether or not they're involved.  They are.  It's a question of how involved they are.  Naturally Trump would like the as many Americans as possible, and also the world to believe that the protests were instigated by a small group of radical extremists that hate America and are not in any way evidence of any serious, big picture underlying issue that America will need to face.  Basically he's saying 'nothing to see here - the people protesting are the enemy of the country and I will make sure they get what they deserve'.

[squatz1]

It is interesting to see how you have the spark of mind to include this option back in december 2019.
The BLM / Floyd situation (not yet resolved) is a little bit early in the year to have an impact on the November elections (ie cancel them).
But who knows.... maybe more riots for later in the years (BLM or other social issues) and the martial law might be invoked.

As you can see by the reference to Martians I wasn't particularly serious about that possibility back then but with Trump's authoritarian leanings I think there's a non-zero chance of him trying to push the election around if he sees it not going his way. Rioting provides a good excuse it's just that it might not last until November. However... given the year we're having there could well be some other crisis or two at the convenient time. Even friggin' Martians are probably looking at this shit and thinking "let's just put face masks on and invade, nobody will see it coming".

Sadly I don't think anyone on Earth right not would be surprised if we had a real UFO sighting and aliens started invading. Shit would probably be thrown into the 'WHAT THE FUCK IS 2020 pile'

Elections are NOT going to be cancelled. I highly doubt that Trump is going to be able to pull off some fucking Frank Underwood shit from House of Cards to try to sway this his way.

Still a long long way to the election folks. Comey changed the fate of the Clinton vs Trump election 6 (I think) days before the race by announcing that the case against Clinton was reopening.

[suchmoon]

Elections are NOT going to be cancelled. I highly doubt that Trump is going to be able to pull off some fucking Frank Underwood shit from House of Cards to try to sway this his way.

Doesn't need to be cancelled... postponed until we got law&order reestablished, or until we got a vaccine, or until that Martian situation is dealt with.

There are other options too. E.g. impose strategic curfews/quarantines/anti-Martian blockades in places that (completely coincidentally) tend to vote for Democrats. Or just ask China for help LOL.

[dupeddonk]

Elections are NOT going to be cancelled. I highly doubt that Trump is going to be able to pull off some fucking Frank Underwood shit from House of Cards to try to sway this his way.

Doesn't need to be cancelled... postponed until we got law&order reestablished, or until we got a vaccine, or until that Martian situation is dealt with.

There are other options too. E.g. impose strategic curfews/quarantines/anti-Martian blockades in places that (completely coincidentally) tend to vote for Democrats. Or just ask China for help LOL.

if he postpones it without setting a new date right away i would be very worried.

[Spendulus]

Elections are NOT going to be cancelled. I highly doubt that Trump is going to be able to pull off some fucking Frank Underwood shit from House of Cards to try to sway this his way.

Doesn't need to be cancelled... postponed until we got law&order reestablished, or until we got a vaccine, or until that Martian situation is dealt with.

There are other options too. E.g. impose strategic curfews/quarantines/anti-Martian blockades in places that (completely coincidentally) tend to vote for Democrats. Or just ask China for help LOL.

if he postpones it without setting a new date right away i would be very worried.

Indeed...

Why don't you ...

Worry about FAKE Trump colluding with Russia...

Worry about FAKE Trump will be impeached...

Worry about FAKE Election was stolen from Hitlery...

Worry about FAKE Trump might postpone it...

How about "Get a life?"