Whether or not either of them is a warhawk isn't what bothers me. I'm not talking about either of their respective stances, I am talking about the honesty of them and the tactics of their dialogue. In that, he comes across like a bit of a douche and utilizes blatantly inaccurate statements for the sake of attack politics.

An innocent person - well, that of course begets the question of what makes someone innocent?

What does?  And does this mean that the allies, bombing Germany, were murderers?   When the state uses the DP, is that always murder?

On another note, you still did not answer the post about the chimps.

Like I said, I wouldn't survive, but the fact that he needs to rely so heavily on them in the area of foreign affairs indicates weakness in that area for him. He doesn't produce a lot of substance on his own, and even in his criticisms a lot of his comments are blatantly dishonest. I can't respect that.

 So, that is your excuse for refusing to define what you see as the parameters regarding murder?  Yet, no one is to question you when you proclaim an act is murder?  LOL.

You are not interested in discussion, but just expressing your anger.  I mention about God knowing our hearts - and it is true.  But, really, takes no revelation to see through yours.

It is silly to accuse the Creator of murder - but even sillier when one does not even nail done a definition of murder, so we can then apply it.

You can answer this question (any of you) also, in seeking to define what murder is:If someone puts to death a family of chimpanzees - is it murder, or not?  Why?

Goes back to - what makes something murder?  When the state orders the Death Penalty, is that murder?

Are you kidding? Give me two interns and a month and I can create a whole new religion with more pages than the bible.Except God in the Bible never gives instructions to murder anyone.  Again, what makes something murder?

i dont know very much. israelis seem pretty aggressive, in general. not that they aren't nice, they just have more of an aggressive culture. things that people in the US call courteous and polite are seen as fake in that culture.

otherwise, fromwhat i can tell. it's basically like america.

i guess to me it seemed much more secular than you made it sound. like i bet there's a higher percentage of atheists in israel than in the us.

My father is Jewish.

uh. no. there are different types of israeli music. you just happened to post mizrahi.

In fact, as an example, it is impossible for God to lie.  Nor can he be tempted by evil.  

Hebrews Chapter 6
18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

From James 1

12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation; for when he hath been approved, he shall receive the crown of life, which [the Lord] promised to them that love him.
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempteth no man:
14 but each man is tempted, when he is drawn away by his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then the lust, when it hath conceived, beareth sin: and the sin, when it is fullgrown, bringeth forth death.

 I agree that Paul says that, for those that love God, all things work together for good (and that would include evil).

But, its another thing to say that God Himself would do something morally evil.  Apart from it not making sense (it would mean there is a Being higher than God Himself - CS Lewis' Mere Christianity actually touches upon this)....

Apart from that, there is the plain reading of scripture that God does not do moral evil.

Of course, if there be no God, if we are just animals, highest on earth as it is, what does murder mean even?

But, within us all there is something that testifies that God exists.  Many times we choose to try and silence that testimony (for example - questions about murder get ignored).

In Revelations, you have people crying out to the mountains to hide themselves from the Creator - rather than repent.  It is rarely an issue of evidence, but rather of will.

If one goes by the Bible, in many passages it is clear that God can do no moral evil.  So, when it comes to something we do not like, one either rejects the message of the Bible, or accepts it.  But to say the Bible is true, and thus God a murderer (as suggested by one in this thread) is foolish.  That is just abstaining from logic, and ignoreing context.

Evil is used in two different ways even by us today.  A family loses their house in a lighting storm fire, someone may bewail that befell the family.  But, they are not using it in the same way as a family losing their house because of arson.

What has been under discussion is moral evil, rather than simply a calamity, judgement or such (as I believe you are referring to).

I am not proposing anything.  The thread is simply about God judging the nations.

Who suggested that? You asked a question, and I answered it in the vein of the very true statement that we create gods in our own image.
I have no idea where you came up with the drivel about a duty to perpetuate atrocities. I know I don't feel such a duty. If you do, I think you should probably seek professional help.

Because many priests, mullahs, rabbis, and popes have been?

What fascinates me is how you dodge questions, and ignore context. Perhaps you are feeling awkward also by your unintentional confession that humans are more than merely animals?