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261  Economy / Speculation / Re: "There can be only 21,000,000 bitcoins" is myth => How to secure the blockchain? on: April 13, 2013, 07:21:42 PM
See? When we add altcoins into the scenario we see that "price" of BTC becomes lower. And we can add infinite number of altcoins. We just need some PR to get people involved.

Of course, but if you add more altcoins, then your reasoning applies to previously created altcoins as well (not just bitcoins).  So it's not proportional.   Basically, you can indeed add as many altcoins as you want, but they won't have as many supporters and their price will therefore not be infinite.

Indeed when people prefer to use altcoins rather than bitcoins, it does reduce the value of bitcoin, but same as when people prefer to use gold, silver, freshly printed dollars or whatever.  Just creating altcoins does not ensure any success selling those altcoins.   And I doubt PR is that effective in making people think as you would like them to think.

Again, there is a convention in bitcoin which states that the valid chain is the one which has the most enclosed proof-of-work (I simplify).  All altcoins have lower proof-of-work and are therefore dissmissed as inferior by all true bitcoiners.   You can create as many altcoins as you want, this will not change.
262  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The 18 Most Ridiculous Startup Ideas That Eventually Became Successful on: April 13, 2013, 07:13:09 PM
Amazing quotes.  Unfortunately, you know what people say about quotes on internet, right?

263  Economy / Speculation / Re: "There can be only 21,000,000 bitcoins" is myth => How to secure the blockchain? on: April 13, 2013, 07:04:31 PM
hi grondilu. we had this argument two years ago, but i still don't understand the basis of your abstract prediction. traditionalists (say, goldbugs) who oppose bitcoin say the same thing of bitcoin as you say of other cryptocurrencies.  how are you necessarily right and they necessarily wrong?

I do not pretend my prediction is necessarily better than others.  It's just mine.   Also FYI, I'm a former goldbug.

Quote
but to imagine that a bitcoin could ever be worth $100,000 is to imagine that people (currently bitcoin outsiders) would be willing to transfer billions of dollars to us early adopters instead of setting up an alternative. i'm not saying that's impossible, but in all the posts i've read since 2009 in the forum, nobody has ever given a rational reason for thinking it's remotely plausible. it seems irresponsible, and bordering on fraud, to entice people to buy bitcoins on the thought that it could skyrocket to $10,000 or $100,000, even if that is a technical possibility. (it's also a technical possibility for a single ounce of gold, or a single share of google stock, or anything else).

Not sure I get your point.  Could people decide to start an other blockchain because they think bitcoins are just too expensive?  Of course it's possible.  It's basically happening with altcoins, if you ask me.  I just don't think it's a threat in any way.  It's even healthy, imho.  As far as I'm concerned, I'll just stick to bitcoins.
264  Economy / Speculation / Re: "There can be only 21,000,000 bitcoins" is myth => How to secure the blockchain? on: April 13, 2013, 06:57:22 PM
Look at Litecoin. At 0.025 BTC for 1 LTC it's extra 417,000 BTC added to existing 12,000,000 BTC.

I don't understand why I should count this as an extra.  It's not the same currency.  Otherwise, should I consider that Bernanke also debase bitcoin whenever he prints dollars?  Does not make sense.
265  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-11 CNBC adds a Bitcoin ticker on: April 13, 2013, 06:54:02 PM
I suspect they will update it whenever bitcoins goes back below 75.51$ (if it ever does)

What do you actually mean?


I mean that I suspect they are happy showing a 39% crash but would be reluctant to show any increase.
266  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-11 CNBC adds a Bitcoin ticker on: April 13, 2013, 06:52:12 PM
I suspect they will update it whenever bitcoins goes back below 75.51$ (if it ever does)
267  Economy / Speculation / Re: "There can be only 21,000,000 bitcoins" is myth => How to secure the blockchain? on: April 13, 2013, 06:46:53 PM
Bitcoins have been evolving aside with an altcoin ever since the very beginning:  the test chain is the oldest altcoin, and I don't fear it hurting bitcoin in anyway.

Also, every time the blockchain forks (here I'm talking about the "normal" forks, due to simultaneity of block discovery from different miners), some kind of an alt coin is created.  Yet it does not matter because we all agree to consider only the longest chain.

What I mean is that for the same reasons that people agree to consider only the longest chain as valid, people will agree on considering only bitcoin and not altcoins.  Well, at least I will, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Altcoins are fine though.  If people prefer them to bitcoin, I have no problem with it.  I just don't share their preference.  And that's all good.
268  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-11 CNBC adds a Bitcoin ticker on: April 13, 2013, 06:24:49 PM

That's great, but I'm looking forward to see them actually update their data, because I've never seen anything but



on this page.
269  Economy / Economics / Re: = Grand Unified Solution to Lost Coins, Hoarding, Deflation, Speculation = on: April 13, 2013, 06:11:17 PM
- Encourage people to spend their coins as a currency

I have a great idea in order to do something that would have the same effect.

Instead of encouraging people to spend their money, let's spend it for them!  So here is the idea:  we steal a bit of everybody's money, and we use it to fund all sorts of stuff.  What we do does not matter much.  We can just build stuff like roads or schools.  Those things are always useful so nobody will complain.  If there are already roads, schools or hospitals, we'll just destroy them and build new ones.  We'll just say they were too old and needed replacements.  And if we still need to spend more, then we'll just hire young people as soldiers and we'll send them to war abroad.

How does that sound?

270  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-12 Bitcoins are unconstitutional on: April 13, 2013, 05:41:18 PM
The blonde girl says that she would not like to hold bitcoins because they are not insured.  There is nothing preventing an insurance company from offering an insurance for bitcoin holdings.  There is nothing preventing a bank from holding her bitcoins and be regulated in exactly the same way as it currently is when holding US dollars.  All of these are merely a matter of laws and insurance services.  It's just a decision that can be taken, or not.

So what I mean is that those concerns are not idiosynchratic to bitcoin.   Pretty much everything the current banking system does, bitcoin could do it as well, except letting a minority of people secretly mess around with the total amount of money in circulation.
271  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Zerocoin: Anonymous Distributed E-Cash from Bitcoin on: April 13, 2013, 12:55:35 AM
Seems complicated, but also looks like serious work.  I will need some time to understand it.

It seems to me they overestimate the need for full anonymity, though.
272  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-12 krugman.blogs.nytimes.com - Adam Smith Hates Bitcoin on: April 12, 2013, 10:08:18 PM
I wish someone could make a study on how much energy and/or money is spent with the bitcoin network as opposed to the current monetary system.

Among the factors that should be included are the wages of the banking staff, banks real estate and basically all these resources that are used to have humans do a work that machines do in the bitcoin network.  I'm not sure bitcoin will lose the comparison.
273  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-12 Time - The real significance of the bitcoin boom on: April 12, 2013, 09:54:45 PM
(For the benefit of newbs: The bitcoin software includes a quote from the days newspaper when mining bitcoin began, this was to prove that Satoshi hadn't pre-mined tonnes of bitcoins to make himself rich. Something which in retrospect seems silly, because Satoshi has now undoubtably (and deservedly) been made very rich.)

It's not really about showing that he did not made himself rich (he did actually, as you noticed).  Showing that there are no pre-mined blocks is a way to prove that Satoshi does not hold a "destruction key", i.e. a secret unknown longer chain (it's quite unlikely today but it would have been a possibility earlier)
274  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-12 Time - The real significance of the bitcoin boom on: April 12, 2013, 08:46:51 PM
Is that the website of the newspaper that was quoted by Satoshi in Genesis?

PS.  Good article, btw.
275  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-11 blogs.reuters - Learn from bitcoin's mistakes - The promise of Ripple on: April 12, 2013, 07:54:56 PM
I still don't see how they can avoid a cascading debt-bubble from taking the whole thing down.

I'm very wary of any debt-oriented system. Microloans with risk exist in other parts of the world, but they're not enabling whole chains of debt issuance, its meant for smaller applications.

Try to remember though that any exchange system is debt-oriented.   A Mt-Gox account for instance is a measure of Mt-Gox's debt to you. That's why Ripple is useful imho:  you can't avoid debt completely.
276  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-11 Zuckerberg's nemeses revealed as Bitcoin moguls on: April 12, 2013, 10:22:51 AM
didn't you read my argument? you very well know what it means to own percents of an unregulated currency.
the holders can be as good as it gets, but it is still a problem. Just as it is in fiat system. they are humans who can get greedy and form cartel with other investors ,and sell whole junk to central bank for example.

This is not a problem because they bought these bitcoins from people who sold them voluntarily.  Blame these guys if you want to blame someone.

Also, manipulating a market is much more difficult than you seem to think, especially when you don't have a printing press.  Central banks would need much more than 1% if they wanted to do it.
277  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-11 Zuckerberg's nemeses revealed as Bitcoin moguls on: April 12, 2013, 09:45:14 AM
I have absolutely no issue about the persons. I'm sorry.

My point is that it is far too easy for someone to "own the btc market".

Am I wrong?

They don't "own" the market.  Sure, right now there are lots of people who own a lot of bitcoins, but there is nothing we can should do about it if we want to respect economic freedom, and normally it should get more and more difficult to acquire lots of bitcoins as the market expands.
278  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-11 Zuckerberg's nemeses revealed as Bitcoin moguls on: April 12, 2013, 09:11:01 AM
Great news!! And greats prices for investing on bitcoins today, i wish i had some money.

your serious?

I have no issue whatsoever with these guys buying bitcoins.  They did not steal them, did they?

Also, I did not know about them before I saw this article, but a quick read of their Wikipedia bio and their arguments about why buying bitcoins let me think they are basically the same as us, only much smarter and richer.
279  Economy / Economics / Re: Price stability is price control on: April 11, 2013, 11:56:12 PM
So, we should celebrate this volatility as the freedom it is?

It did reflect economic information, from the Cyprus crisis to the fragility of the bitcoin exchange markets.
280  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2013-04-11 blogs.reuters - Learn from bitcoin's mistakes - The promise of Ripple on: April 11, 2013, 11:43:58 PM
The number of posts for the giveaway is suspicious too, I'm guessing there's some wealthy socks there. I thought it was a debt sharing system so I'm kind of confused why its being touted as a cryptocurrency now too, by the sound of things it can no longer claim to be complimentary to Bitcoin but it if can get us over some of the problems exchanges are causing then it'll have its uses.

Most definitely.  If it ever comes out of beta and some real documentation comes out on how to use it, I'm hoping it catches on for tracking debts; the honor system is interesting, and could be the decentralized solution we're looking for.  But the currency part just throws everything out the window, and the fact that you need ripples to use the service completely ruins it.

If it is completely open source as promised, a fork will emerge with a different way of preventing spam (since the ripple as a currency is designed just for that, if I understand correctly)
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