hello
this key LIFETIME??
Yes, it's lifetime. Lifetime, or until Microsoft decides to deactivate it. Whichever happens first. Since these keys are not sold legitimately Microsoft can cancel them at any time. Do you have anything better to do in your life?  Yes, apparently I do. Annoying TECShare to be specific. If you want to annoy TECShare too you can tell him how my negative comments do nothing to harm your business.  |
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Having a product key does not relate to having a licence to use the software. So it would be piracy.
piracy = making illegal copies of software (not illegal in all jurisdictions BTW) Using educational versions of keys = a terms of service violation, not software piracy. A user may very well have a legally produced MS issued copy of the software disk. Software piracy is using software without having a proper licence. Which is the case for people buying these keys. LOL not stolen, but as the OP said these keys are in the grey area.
It's not a grey area. Just because you didn't caught doesn't mean it's not a crime. The chance of being caught is admittedly very small, that is probably why you don't have an issue breaking the law so easily. No, but it not being a crime means it is not a crime. Software piracy is a crime. I said it again. Good to see you have joined the ranks of self proclaimed "scambusters" nut. Keep working hard and some day you too can have no life.
NOTE: Selling these keys is not a CRIMINAL act. At worst it may be considered a violation of terms of service which would be a CIVIL claim. The title of this op itself is misleading.
I used to mention before that I am not a lawyer. Software piracy is illegal in many jurisdictions. Selling these keys is against to EULA/TOS. I strongly disagree with your assessment of the worst case scenario. The worst case scenario is more like a buyer gets sued, found guilty and will have to pay a multi-million dollar fine. It has happened for people who downloaded a few songs. Are you telling me, definitively, that it will not happen to someone using unlicensed Windows, Word, Outlook, Powerpoint and Excel? I can not definitively say that selling keys is also illegal, but I reckon enabling piracy will in many jurisdiction also be plain illegal. In addition all the sellers are misleading their "customers" with false claims. ("Legit", "lifetime warranty" and what not). See below for me having a life... Violations of civil agreements and potential lawsuits ARE NOT CRIMINAL LAW. Please reference actual criminal statues under which you believe "enabling piracy" is made illegal. I am not a lawyer. If you want to know the exact legal definitions consult your lawyer. Or pay me a good lawyers fee + 10% and I'll hire one for you to find out. Or just go sell keys like all the sellers here without hiding your identity and see what happens if Microsoft files a claim. If you really think that being a little ring leader in a software piracy case is not going to get you convicted you might end up disappointed/incarcerated. I also wonder why do you target this specific individual? From what I could see he is no different that any other MSDN dealer out there, and we have 10+ of such dealers here on bitcointalk. If you are really "scambusters" please go against every single one of them. Now you are just making other sellers profit more.
If you look at my history I've been posting replies in other sales threads as well. I am not singling out FuckIdolPlus. The other sellers, though, took my comments and left it at that. FuckIdolPlus blew a fuse and that caused some extra attention. Also, I am a single individual, I do have a life and I don't have time to chase down every shady business on here. I choose to pick on those selling Starbucks gift cards (because they cause credit card fraud and do harm to individuals) and Microsoft product key sellers. My approach is fairly simple: I make it explicit that what they're doing is fraudulent. If, at any time, an authority goes after these dealer and/or their customers they will have a hard time claiming ignorance. If no authority will ever take action then so be it. Tell me please, what evidence do you have that what they are doing is fraudulent other than your own power of speculation? Why is it that harmed users can not leave negative ratings for themselves? What do you feel gives you the authority to preemptively harm the reputations of retailers you merely speculate MAY be engaged in illegal activity without actual evidence of this? What part of, "Here have this $100+ product for $5" makes you believe they're honest sellers? Whether people buying those keys leave feedback or not does not relate to me giving feedback. And I am not "merely" speculating they are involved in distrustful business. I stand by my feedback. You can go on and refuse to see what is right in front of. That's fine with me. |
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Like I said in another thread, I am unsure if the act of selling those keys is criminal in a specific jurisdiction. But enabling software piracy is illegal in many jurisdictions. Bryan Thomas Black can - among many others, I'm sure - attest to that.
Sellers are liable. Buyers are liable.
Many jusrisdictions does not equal EVERY jurisdiction globally. Who are you to deprive people of these keys in a place where it is not a crimial act? As far as "enabling" piracy being a criminal offense, that is a bit of a stretch. I challenge you to actually produce some form of statutory law that demonstrates the criminality of "enabling piracy", and I don't mean judicial interpretations of non laws in order to railroad high profile marked people either. Bryan Thomas Black That is not a statute. I am sorry, I am not a lawyer. If you think the middle men get of easy then that's fine with me. To anyone believing you who ends up sued in court.... Good luck. Luck probably won't help much at that point anymore though. |
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This user is selling Microsoft product keys they get from MSDN subscriptions1. This is not allowed2. Microsoft does not sell product keys without Certificate of Authenticity3.
All it will take is a single person to report his illegal purchase of a Microsoft key (even someone who intentionally buys just to report)4, then Microsoft can trace it back to the original MSDN subscription that generated that key.5
ALL keys generated from that MSDN account will then become invalidated (i.e. stop working)6 and symantec will NOT give you your money back7.
This is a scam8. Do not purchase keys from this account!9 I don't see any major fault in this feedback. It seems spot on. You skipped over the parts that were incorrect such as the keys being "illegal" and labeling the retailers scammers. Also, he ASSUMES that Symantec will not issue refunds, he could not possibly know this. I'll let the courts decide on the legality of running a network to enable pirated software. I'm sure they won't punish it as badly as say, running a network to enable selling drugs. Labeling these "sellers" as scammer is spot on. What they're selling is not only worthless (a key that you're not allowed to use / if you use it you're pirating software and very likely breaking the law). The assumption that symantec is not going to refund is a based on Vod's experience and symantecs behaviour. While it cannot be asserted until it happens, I am fairly confident that assumption is spot on. Vod have changed his neutral feedback to a negative one on TECSHARE's trust. I don't get how TECSHARE is untrustworthy as a result of that though.  Yep. Funny how negatives seem to come out for anyone who is critical of his behavior. Just another demonstration of his disregard for his position on the default trust. Notice there is no reference and he refuses to actually quote any supposed lies he says I made about him. In short the negative rating is for being openly critical of his abusive behavior. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=915823.msg10848601#msg10848601That's how it works though. Vod doesn't trust symantec because symantec is involved in software piracy. Symantec is screwing over their customers by making them believe they get a lifetime, guaranteed licence while all they get is as-is, guaranteed to fail product key unless symantec renews their MSDN subscription, which is highly unlikely. You are confused. Please read again. This is a reference to the negative trust rating Vod has now left me for daring to challenge him on this subject in yet another lame attempt to try to silence people who are critical of him by further abusing his position on the default trust. I am sorry if I misread that. However, it is still how trust works. You and Vod have a spat for ages, so it's only logical that Vod doesn't trust him. I reckon you wouldn't do business with Vod either, though you choose not to publish your distrust in Vod's feedback. |
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Vod made claims about criminal activity and scamming that are speculative at best, and applied this speculation en-mass upon users doing nothing but attempting to provide customers with a product they clearly want. If he wanted to warn people he could have easily done so with neutral ratings, but then he would have any fun subjugating people that way now would he?
Ok, let's do some group reading of the feedback Vod left for symantec. This user is selling Microsoft product keys they get from MSDN subscriptions1. This is not allowed2. Microsoft does not sell product keys without Certificate of Authenticity3.
All it will take is a single person to report his illegal purchase of a Microsoft key (even someone who intentionally buys just to report)4, then Microsoft can trace it back to the original MSDN subscription that generated that key.5
ALL keys generated from that MSDN account will then become invalidated (i.e. stop working)6 and symantec will NOT give you your money back7.
This is a scam8. Do not purchase keys from this account!9 1) True. 2) True. 3) True. there are a few exceptions, but not among the products that are sold here.4) True. Microsoft may (though unlikely) have a mystery shopper buy a key to identify the source subscription. 5) True. 6) I'm not 100% on this, but seeing how product keys do get blacklisted I am going to say true. 7) The magic eight ball says, "True". (I can't guarantee how symantec will act, but all signs point to symantec *not* reimbursing customers.) 8 ) True. 9) A fair warning. I don't see any major fault in this feedback. It seems spot on. Vod have changed his neutral feedback to a negative one on TECSHARE's trust. I don't get how TECSHARE is untrustworthy as a result of that though. Yep. Funny how negatives seem to come out for anyone who is critical of his behavior. Just another demonstration of his disregard for his position on the default trust. Notice there is no reference and he refuses to actually quote any supposed lies he says I made about him. In short the negative rating is for being openly critical of his abusive behavior. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=915823.msg10848601#msg10848601That's how it works though. Vod doesn't trust symantec because symantec is involved in software piracy. Symantec is screwing over their customers by making them believe they get a lifetime, guaranteed licence while all they get is as-is, guaranteed to fail product key unless symantec renews their MSDN subscription, which is highly unlikely. |
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Like I said in another thread, I am unsure if the act of selling those keys is criminal in a specific jurisdiction. But enabling software piracy is illegal in many jurisdictions. Bryan Thomas Black can - among many others, I'm sure - attest to that.
Sellers are liable. Buyers are liable.
Many jusrisdictions does not equal EVERY jurisdiction globally. Who are you to deprive people of these keys in a place where it is not a crimial act? As far as "enabling" piracy being a criminal offense, that is a bit of a stretch. I challenge you to actually produce some form of statutory law that demonstrates the criminality of "enabling piracy", and I don't mean judicial interpretations of non laws in order to railroad high profile marked people either. Bryan Thomas Black |
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The keys that to symantec is selling are not legit. They do come from MSDN. Whether they work to activate a product or not is not really relevant. Even if they do activate the product they do not grant you a licence to use the product. Using the product without a licence means you're liable for software piracy. It also means that the product key can be cancelled at any time.
Vod's feedback seems spot on. Buyer beware. And symantec, don't play dumb. You know you're breaking the rules.
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As has been said before, the Microsoft product keys for sale here are created from an MSDN subscription. While the keys may work (for some time) they are not legit and they're not a licence to actually use the software. Using the software without a licence is piracy.
In addition it seems this particular seller is actually selling the same key multiple times, causing them to actually get blacklisted rather soon.
If it seems to good to be true, it probably is.
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As has been said before, the microsoft product keys for sale here are created from an MSDN subscription. While the keys may work (for some time) they are not legit and they're not a licence to actually use the software. Using the software without a licence is piracy.
In addition it seems this particular seller is actually selling the same key multiple times, causing them to actually get blacklisted rather soon.
If it seems to good to be true, it probably is.
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I think the neighborhood scambusters are confusing a violation of a contractual agreement with criminal activity. What the OP is doing is NOT criminal activity, however he is potentially liable under a lawsuit from Microsoft for not obeying the terms of his agreement with them. Please learn the difference before you go around enforcing Microsoft contract law for them.
Don't be so obtuse. He is stealing from the college, plain and simple. It's also a violation of Federal Anti-Piracy laws. Ok. A couple things... 1. Educational versions of software are not paid for by colleges, they are discounts offered from the manufacturer. No one is stealing from colleges. 2. It is NOT a violation of any law. Wost case it is a violation of contract law by breaking the TOS agreement with Microsoft which makes it a CIVIL matter NOT a criminal matter. If you are SO ASSURED that selling legally obtained registration keys is illegal, you should not have any trouble citing the statute under which such activities are deemed a criminal act. So far no one has actually referenced a law that applies to this. Like I said in another thread, I am unsure if the act of selling those keys is criminal in a specific jurisdiction. But enabling software piracy is illegal in many jurisdictions. Bryan Thomas Black can - among many others, I'm sure - attest to that. Sellers are liable. Buyers are liable. |
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Any chance you could post a link that backs up the fact that it is against the EULA/TOS to sell MSDN subscriptions like this?
They actually have a licensing white paper. You can download it from here: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=13350The relevant part is here: ... Be careful to not confuse
activation with licensing; activation has no way of determining whether you are licensed to use the product (such as
Windows 8, offered through an MSDN subscription) or whether you’re using the software in a way that is allowed under
your license (such as using Windows 8 for developing an application)... Having a product key does not relate to having a licence to use the software. So it would be piracy. LOL not stolen, but as the OP said these keys are in the grey area.
It's not a grey area. Just because you didn't caught doesn't mean it's not a crime. The chance of being caught is admittedly very small, that is probably why you don't have an issue breaking the law so easily. To me, scam means you give them money and don't get anything in return.
This doesn't seem like so much of a scam; buyers know (or, at least SHOULD know based on the price they're paying) that they're buying something that is suspect. You might not like that, but unless Microsoft or the BSA comes down on Theymos, I don't see the "harm".
There's absolutely nothing different between this and the multitudes of Netflix logins, duty free cigarettes, HBOGO accounts, and all the rest. Or do you go after each of those sellers accounts too?
And yes, I know my account is a newbie, but I am certainly not a sock puppet. Just wondering why you're choosing to make a big deal on this one specific case.
You have a very naive definition of scam. The best scams do deliver, at least for a while. It's a confidence game. In this case the scam is that the keys may allow you to activate your product but in no ways allow you licence to use it. This means that the software may fail at any time and that the buyer is potentially liable for software piracy. Good to see you have joined the ranks of self proclaimed "scambusters" nut. Keep working hard and some day you too can have no life.
NOTE: Selling these keys is not a CRIMINAL act. At worst it may be considered a violation of terms of service which would be a CIVIL claim. The title of this op itself is misleading.
I used to mention before that I am not a lawyer. Software piracy is illegal in many jurisdictions. Selling these keys is against to EULA/TOS. I strongly disagree with your assessment of the worst case scenario. The worst case scenario is more like a buyer gets sued, found guilty and will have to pay a multi-million dollar fine. It has happened for people who downloaded a few songs. Are you telling me, definitively, that it will not happen to someone using unlicensed Windows, Word, Outlook, Powerpoint and Excel? I can not definitively say that selling keys is also illegal, but I reckon enabling piracy will in many jurisdiction also be plain illegal. In addition all the sellers are misleading their "customers" with false claims. ("Legit", "lifetime warranty" and what not). See below for me having a life... I also wonder why do you target this specific individual? From what I could see he is no different that any other MSDN dealer out there, and we have 10+ of such dealers here on bitcointalk. If you are really "scambusters" please go against every single one of them. Now you are just making other sellers profit more.
If you look at my history I've been posting replies in other sales threads as well. I am not singling out FuckIdolPlus. The other sellers, though, took my comments and left it at that. FuckIdolPlus blew a fuse and that caused some extra attention. Also, I am a single individual, I do have a life and I don't have time to chase down every shady business on here. I choose to pick on those selling Starbucks gift cards (because they cause credit card fraud and do harm to individuals) and Microsoft product key sellers. My approach is fairly simple: I make it explicit that what they're doing is fraudulent. If, at any time, an authority goes after these dealer and/or their customers they will have a hard time claiming ignorance. If no authority will ever take action then so be it. |
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hello
this key LIFETIME??
Yes, it's lifetime. Lifetime, or until Microsoft decides to deactivate it. Whichever happens first. Since these keys are not sold legitimately Microsoft can cancel them at any time. |
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For the record, selling keys from a MSDN account is not allowed.
Also you might want to remove the negative feedback you rashly left on Tomatocage. Leaving it there while he has been more than accommodating to you is kind of a dick move.
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Fucker you spoiled my REP. This is a clear warning, post it anywhere you want, you will be dealt with. Karma will deal with you asshole. I never sold any illegitimate key. My MSDN subscription was from my college and not from buyers present here, that is why I didn't sell my admin account dickhead.
You just come out of nowhere and start messing with me -_-
Seriously dude get a life. And stand up to your bullies at school.
Dipshit asshole. I'll talk to theymos about this. Enough is enough. Enough of you nuisance. Also my self moderated thread is not a new one. It was created about a week ago. Check you facts asshole. I sent you this PM. Let it be public. Let everyone know what kind of screwed up personality you are. . Read your EULA. Or google it. I concede that your self-moderated thread is over a week old. It doesn't change much though. I throw back that I did not ruin your reputation. I've made the same comments in threads for other sellers, yet they're still actively running their illegal business. You can ask yourself what you did different from them to get a different result. |
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What happened: FuckIdolPlus is one of the many people on here selling Microsoft product codes they generate from MSDN subscriptions. These subscriptions themselves are also obtained in fraudulent ways. They opened a normal sales thread, but apparantly they didn't like me pointing out that they're not allowed to sell those codes. They actually went as far as to threaten me in a pm. Then they decided to request that thread to be deleted and they opened a new moved back to a self-moderated thread instead. And of course they have deleted my reply there. All the keys are 100% genuine and will NOT be blacklisted under any circumstances.
This is a blatant lie. You're selling keys that you produce from an MSDN account. It is not allowed to sell those. That means Microsoft can, at any time, revoke those keys. Keys bought come with lifetime replacement warranty.
Once again a lie, see above. Unless with lifetime you mean, "As long as I can be bothered" which most likely translates to about 1 week. Their behaviour and attitude show typical signs of being a scammer. I strongly advise not to deal with them.Scammers Profile Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=409225Reference Link: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=987244.0 (current, self moderated) and https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=996280 (old archived) Amount Scammed: Unknown Payment Method: BTC only Proof of Payment: N/A PM/Chat Logs: N/A Additional Notes: This user claims to have sold a legendary account. They may have scammed with it, then sold it and are now back to scam some more. Edit: Actually the self-moderated thread existed already. They just moved back there when they didn't like my feedback in the new thread. Updated the post to reflect this.
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You wouldn't happen to be an alt of Mridul, would you? Anyways: With the exception of Product Key Cards (PKC’s) distributed with COA’s, Microsoft does not distribute products keys as standalone products. If you see a listing on an auction site, online classified ad, or other online page advertising product keys for sale, it’s a good indication that the keys are likely stolen or counterfeit. If you were to purchase and use a stolen or counterfeit product key to activate Windows installed on your PC, the key may not work for activation, may already be in use on another PC, or it might be blocked from use later by Microsoft when the key is reported stolen Do the keys you sell come with a COA? At the price he's offering them for, do you really think you're getting a COA?!? People who buy these keys do so knowing that they're paying a tiny fraction of the real cost, and taking on the risk that hey might face activation and update issues. But a COA for Windows Server key at a cost of $2.50?!? Sure, they do not come with a COA. But I thought I would be nice and not ask first, just to give the seller a chance. As always the ancient saying goes, "If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is". Nonetheless, this kind of illegal selling is hard to fight for Microsoft. I wonder when they'll change their models. If Microsoft thought that they are losing too much from it they would change it long time ago. So for now it is fine. But I have a question regarding keys after receiving a key how can I check if that key is valid. In some other way that installing software using this key right away? You can install the software, then during activation pick the option to activate by phone. It will give you a phone number of the appropriate activation center. You call, you ask them to check. Do mention where you bought it. They may let it slide, or they may deactivate it on the spot. But you might as well just put the key in there. The automated activation will (can) not check if you bought it from an unauthorized seller and is likely to activate the product. Simply put: These keys are not allowed to be sold. A bit like some products come with the label "Not for individual sale". But they may very well work (for some time) to activate a product. |
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Selling MSDN accounts in this way is obviously not permitted by Microsoft. The OP is abusing Microsoft's incentive program to obtain these accounts.
You're basically buying stolen goods. The seller takes 0 responsibility for the sale. This means that any account sold this way may be terminated at any time. Also you would be liable, especially if you're using the account to (once again illegally) resell product keys. Buyer beware.
I've seen many more offers like that here. People are selling MSDC admin accounts or 'standard' accounts on daily basis. Do you think that Microsoft care about this? They know it it is happening. Do you think they couldn't block all pirated version of Windows and other programs? I think they can do it with no problem really. They just decided not to. No, they cannot do it easily enough. The effort needed to do it is greater than the benefit it would bring. Note that the keys that are being sold do work. They're provided from an MSDN account under very specific conditions and are intended to be used in product development. They're definitely not intended for resale. But it is not easy to tell if a product key from such an account was sold or not... But if they manage to change their processes in ways that make it easier to identify all illegally sold keys then that equation may change. |
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You wouldn't happen to be an alt of Mridul, would you? Anyways: With the exception of Product Key Cards (PKC’s) distributed with COA’s, Microsoft does not distribute products keys as standalone products. If you see a listing on an auction site, online classified ad, or other online page advertising product keys for sale, it’s a good indication that the keys are likely stolen or counterfeit. If you were to purchase and use a stolen or counterfeit product key to activate Windows installed on your PC, the key may not work for activation, may already be in use on another PC, or it might be blocked from use later by Microsoft when the key is reported stolen Do the keys you sell come with a COA? At the price he's offering them for, do you really think you're getting a COA?!? People who buy these keys do so knowing that they're paying a tiny fraction of the real cost, and taking on the risk that hey might face activation and update issues. But a COA for Windows Server key at a cost of $2.50?!? Sure, they do not come with a COA. But I thought I would be nice and not ask first, just to give the seller a chance. As always the ancient saying goes, "If it sounds to good to be true, it probably is". Nonetheless, this kind of illegal selling is hard to fight for Microsoft. I wonder when they'll change their models. |
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Selling MSDN accounts in this way is obviously not permitted by Microsoft. The OP is abusing Microsoft's incentive program to obtain these accounts.
You're basically buying stolen goods. The seller takes 0 responsibility for the sale. This means that any account sold this way may be terminated at any time. Also you would be liable, especially if you're using the account to (once again illegally) resell product keys. Buyer beware.
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