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2601  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 78% of Bitcoin users are smarter than the rest of the world on: November 13, 2012, 09:08:52 PM
But it did go down to 1.99 in the following months didn't it?

Well yeah, but mainly because people were concerned over the safety of bitcoins I would say, not because they weren't traded enough.
Also, bitcoin had undergone a major price appreciation, that allways sets the stage for increased profit taking.
2602  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 78% of Bitcoin users are smarter than the rest of the world on: November 13, 2012, 09:04:58 PM

True.  Gold is a fine store of value, but trades very little percentage wise.

50% of mined gold is in jewelry. A significant percentage is used in the electronics industry. The device which you are using currently has gold in it.

Golds monetary use has a large effect on its price.  If (above-ground) scarcity and usefulness in industrial applications were the determinant of value, silver would be more valuable than gold.
2603  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 78% of Bitcoin users are smarter than the rest of the world on: November 13, 2012, 09:01:56 PM
I feel like some user on this thread are missing a key point.  If everyone just saved their bitcoins they wouldn't be worth anything!  They would be useless as there would be no trading on the exchanges, no reason for businesses to accept them and just no point.  Yes, its good to save, and yes, it's generally a great thing for the individual, but unless a certain portion of bitcoins are circulated to some extent, they will not grow in value or maintain their current value.  They have to at least support a basic structure around them.

I agree that bitcoin would be worthless without the ability to trade them for something else, but technically, if there were no sellers, then bitcoins could maintain their value without any trade in them...

We are talking practically though.

I think it might be true practically as well.  Bitcoins could have a useful function in being a store as value as well as being a medium of exchange (although a longer track record of resilience against possible attacks on the system would be much appreciated of course).  Although something cannot be a store of value without the ability to exchange it for something else, not a lot of exchange is needed.  

In that case it will take only 2 stray investors to start a sell-off. One who takes the profit and the one which follows. Everything else is just basic crowd psychology.

Not true, if the majority of people holding the asset see the value of it, it will retain this value in the end, nothwithstanding short spikes or crashes in price due to low liquidity.  Just look at the mt-gox debacle where the price went close to zero, it bounced right back up afterwards...
2604  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 78% of Bitcoin users are smarter than the rest of the world on: November 13, 2012, 08:27:59 PM
I feel like some user on this thread are missing a key point.  If everyone just saved their bitcoins they wouldn't be worth anything!  They would be useless as there would be no trading on the exchanges, no reason for businesses to accept them and just no point.  Yes, its good to save, and yes, it's generally a great thing for the individual, but unless a certain portion of bitcoins are circulated to some extent, they will not grow in value or maintain their current value.  They have to at least support a basic structure around them.

I agree that bitcoin would be worthless without the ability to trade them for something else, but technically, if there were no sellers, then bitcoins could maintain their value without any trade in them...

We are talking practically though.

I think it might be true practically as well.  Bitcoins could have a useful function in being a store as value as well as being a medium of exchange (although a longer track record of resilience against possible attacks on the system would be much appreciated of course).  Although something cannot be a store of value without the ability to exchange it for something else, not a lot of exchange is needed. 
2605  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 78% of Bitcoin users are smarter than the rest of the world on: November 13, 2012, 08:00:32 PM
I feel like some user on this thread are missing a key point.  If everyone just saved their bitcoins they wouldn't be worth anything!  They would be useless as there would be no trading on the exchanges, no reason for businesses to accept them and just no point.  Yes, its good to save, and yes, it's generally a great thing for the individual, but unless a certain portion of bitcoins are circulated to some extent, they will not grow in value or maintain their current value.  They have to at least support a basic structure around them.

I agree that bitcoin would be worthless without the ability to trade them for something else, but technically, if there were no sellers, then bitcoins could maintain their value without any trade in them...
2606  Economy / Economics / Re: What if gold is produced in lab? on: November 13, 2012, 03:02:47 PM
I too believe the bitcoin rules could be changed, little by little, similar to the transition from the gold standard to pure fiat as we have it today.  But it takes decades to boil a frog that way without it jumping out of the cooking pot, so at least we'll have a few decades of "good money".
2607  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Wikipedia: "Some criticize Bitcoin for being a Ponzi scheme..." on: November 13, 2012, 02:57:06 AM
Damn it why has no one mentioned the ECB comments concerning Bitcoin as a Ponzi scheme?

Does no one here really not have a Wikipedia account with sufficient creditability to add to the discussion?

It's being mentioned, only, they are cherry-picking out the negative comments (ECB paper is fairly neutral on the Ponzi-terminology), except for Rudd-O, who defended bitcoin, but got a bit too fed up with SudoGhost and went on a rant Smiley .

I just dug up one of my old Wikipedia accounts and did it myself. Lets see if they delete my comment. It was perfectly civil and rational.

nicely done
2608  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Wikipedia: "Some criticize Bitcoin for being a Ponzi scheme..." on: November 13, 2012, 02:27:15 AM
Damn it why has no one mentioned the ECB comments concerning Bitcoin as a Ponzi scheme?

Does no one here really not have a Wikipedia account with sufficient creditability to add to the discussion?

It's being mentioned, only, they are cherry-picking out the negative comments (ECB paper is fairly neutral on the Ponzi-terminology), except for Rudd-O, who defended bitcoin, but got a bit too fed up with SudoGhost and went on a rant Smiley .
2609  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 78% of Bitcoin users are smarter than the rest of the world on: November 13, 2012, 02:22:25 AM
The point of Bitcoin Friday was to support Bitcoin merchants. That's all.

And it was a good initiative  Smiley
2610  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: 78% of Bitcoin users are smarter than the rest of the world on: November 13, 2012, 01:24:01 AM

The one potential downside of this is that it reduces incentive to invest in growth.  If your Bitcoins will increase in value just from holding them, then the return from an investment has to be that much higher to make the risk worth it.  But that may be an old world way of looking at investments.  People on Kickstarter and Kiva and sites like that choose to invest in things they want to see created, not in things that give them a financial return.  Maybe that's the way investment should work.

While I don't believe inflation is needed and good, nor that more consumption is usually a good thing, I do see reduced investment as a probable economic outcome (probably less bubbles too though, except for the big bitcoin bubble that is bound to happen if the systems manages to survive all hurdles :-), still orders of magnitude away though).  The degree to which this will have a negative impact on the economy will depend on the rate of deflation (since investments need to produce at least that percentage of profit, and then some).
I don't agree with the idea that people will suddenly look at investments in a different light, maybe some idealists will, but this will never be more than a minority.  I don't see why there would be more of these types of lending than is currently being done.  The majority of lending practices will still be about making money.

Back to my original point, it seems to me that the nature of Bitcoins encourages people to make better life decisions for themselves.  It encourages people to save instead of consume.  I'm not saying don't spend Bitcoins.  Let's get this economy booming.  But we should also celebrate, not being frustrated by, the fact that Bitcoins don't encourage us to act against our own self interest the way other currencies do.

Couldnt agree with you more.
2611  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Will bitcoins double soon? on: November 12, 2012, 11:41:11 PM
My line of thinking is similar to that of coindiver, perhaps there has already been an increase in the price in anticipation of the event, and many people will be disappointed that there is no big increase in price (amount of mined bitcoins in the short run is low compared to the total stock which determines the price), causing a price drop.

In the end, its all speculation, we'll just have to find out...
2612  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] Bitcoin Friday - Black Friday for Bitcoin Businesses. (Info inside) on: November 12, 2012, 10:51:36 PM

Black Friday just got 3% cheaper.

 With news reports of 78% of bitcoins not being spent, we need to do *something*.

While I welcome discount deals, nothing wrong with 78% of bitcoins not being spent, right?
Just means plenty of people use it as a long-term investment.  I am guessing the fact that it can be used this way has motivated plenty of people to learn more about bitcoin, download the client and blockchain, and do the occassional purchase as well.
More purchases and a bigger bitcoin economy would obviously be good for BTC acceptance and value however.
2613  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Wikipedia: "Some criticize Bitcoin for being a Ponzi scheme..." on: November 12, 2012, 10:05:18 PM
I don't have a Wikipedia account, but I will make my point anyway (maybe someone else can have a go at it on the wiki talk).

If I am getting it right the essence of his argument is not whether Bitcoin is a Ponzi Scheme or not, but just that as it has been mentioned as such in an article (or several articles), it should therefore be included on the wikipedia page.

My main point would be: why would Wikipedia need to report false claims?  If people claim "(2*(2+1)) = 5 " on several news websites, then should wikipedia mention this, when logic and the correct application of arithmetical laws shows this is not the case?  If I say "the sky is only green, always has been green and always will be green", should this be mentioned on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sky ?

If the claim can be logically debunked by looking at the definition or properties of a Ponzi scheme, it has no place in the article.

On the other hand, you might say the argument is so commonly believed that there is value into reporting it (in contrast to the green sky for example), fine.  But then it should be clearly  refuted with the proper arguments afterwards.  Just adding "It is commonly said the sky is only green", might be technically correct, but then just leaving it as such is obviously lacking for a encyclopedia.

You might think bitcoin is a shitty investment for delusional people, but it is not a Ponzi scheme, so this statement should be either removed, or mentioned but corrected with the proper arguments.
2614  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Newbie restrictions on: November 04, 2012, 11:13:33 PM
I get the reasons for the restrictions, but i sucked that i have already been on this site 4+ hours, but I only registered now....

Ah well, pointless post 1....
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