Consider the fact that KNC and Coinerra beat blackarrow and will cause the difficulty to rise much more, thus any compensation provided after the fact will be worth less.
That is complete speculation. |
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Okay then. Please consider KNC and Cointerra's compensations versus your own and find a better solution.
Thanks.
Consider the amount of hashrate after compensation those companies are giving vs BA. Cointerra: $14k usd for 2th + 2th(for compensation) BA: 5k usd for 2th + 0.5th (for comp) |
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I understand you're too lazy to read what I wrote above about ebay having more than just their American site. I also appreciate that you're probably trying to forget that you're likely to have been 75% scammed but it's pretty weak denying that most commentators here are customers seeking information/clarification/refunds or even just some official comment on BA's insufficient email to customers.
It should also be clear that I prefer Whack-A-Mole to riding dinosaurs. What is unclear is how that paddle that has remained up your arse and has somehow obscured your vision at the same time, but if you stopped pretending that fairies, unicorns and rainbows will restore lost customer funds and hashing time, you might be just see that the two other people you quoted above were customers who... wait for it... were seeking further information.
Stop huffin' the glue, it's doing you no favours at all.
Its not that I was too lazy to read what you said, its just that what you said was bullshit. Fun fact: ebay shows all completed listings in advanced search http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=black+arrow+prospero&_in_kw=1&_ex_kw=&_sacat=0&LH_Sold=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_samilow=&_samihi=&_sadis=200&_fpos=&_fsct=&LH_SALE_CURRENCY=0&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&LH_Complete=1And as anyone can see only 2 sales have been made worldwide for prosperos. One sale for 750 usd which is double the current rate. What are you so mad about really? Nobody with an actual order with BA is even a fraction as butthurt about the delays as you and PG. |
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Black Arrow isn't going to break down and go buy machines from other suppliers in order to keep their customers happy. (although it would be nice)
BA doesn't have to buy machines from others, they can get AM chips like they did with the bitfuries. The AM chips are going to be two months earlier and will kill BA's chips on current performance specs. 0.35 versus 0.75 w/ghs TT 0.2 versus 0.5(?) w/ghs SS I'm keen to salvage something out of this. The BA back end team has failed. That should be acknowledged. Let's move forward. How will they be 2 months earlier when BA and AM are both going to tapeout around feb 15? Do you even have an order with BA or are you just here to create fud? Given the situation is mostly unknown with regards to where customers actually stand, the real issue is not other people allegedly creating fud - fear, uncertainty, doubt - it's why are you so determined to engender the opposite? - hope, certainty, belief - when you yourself are just as much up shit creek without a paddle as every other customer. It's time you took you took the paddle out of your arse and stopped accusing any non-fanboi commentators of spreading fud when the vast majority of posters are customers seeking further information and getting no suitable answers. What alternate reality are you living in? I don't see "mountains of prosperos selling on ebay" and the "majority of customers posting" are actually only about 3 fudsters who don't know how preorders work. Seriously don't you have anything better to do? Like riding dinosaurs in your alternate reality? |
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Black Arrow isn't going to break down and go buy machines from other suppliers in order to keep their customers happy. (although it would be nice)
BA doesn't have to buy machines from others, they can get AM chips like they did with the bitfuries. The AM chips are going to be two months earlier and will kill BA's chips on current performance specs. 0.35 versus 0.75 w/ghs TT 0.2 versus 0.5(?) w/ghs SS I'm keen to salvage something out of this. The BA back end team has failed. That should be acknowledged. Let's move forward. How will they be 2 months earlier when BA and AM are both going to tapeout around feb 15? Do you even have an order with BA or are you just here to create fud? |
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You're not solving anything.
Simple. State the problems you want to solve, explain how "decentralized exchanges" fix it.
If it is "I want to move shares from exchange a to exchange b", then yes, it solves something. If it is "I want to be governments proof", then it doesn't. Thank you for agreeing with something I said But if is even slightly more government proof then that is a benefit. So you admit that your original statement that it solves nothing was incorrect? |
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Not a very good argument. The thing about a blockchain based system is that it literally cannot be shut down. That means I can send shares to whoever I want, whenever I want, without anyones permission.
What a retard. I'm talking about the issuer. You can trade shares of a business that doesn't exist anymore because it has been shut down, how does that fix anything? But the rest of us are talking about the exchanges. You are looking for the answer to a separate question which indeed will not be fixed by decentralized exchanges. You cant ignore all the benefits simply because it doesn't solve a problem it wasn't meant to. We just want to move our damn shares from place a to place b without having to ask guy a and exchange b for permission. The argument you are using is akin to saying bitcoin cannot work because it doesn't solve the problem that scammers will use it. |
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It's much easier to shut down an issuer than an exchange, which can stay mostly hidden.
Not a very good argument. The thing about a blockchain based system is that it literally cannot be shut down. That means I can send shares to whoever I want, whenever I want, without anyones permission. I can see you making the same arguments you are making now against torrents and bitcoin as they share the same concept of decentralizing and universalizing the transfer of information. |
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What can I do beside saying this for the third time? It will be simply asked to issuer instead. That's the thing; you have to trust the issuer in the end, and if an issuer can stay clear from governments, then so can the exchange. If it isn't utterly incompetent.
The issuer will be shut down like the exchange will be shut down. It's the damn same problem. You are not solving ANYTHING. Can you really not see the difference between shutting down an exchange vs a single asset? Just like how shutting down megaupload affected more than 1 download. But you can shut down thepiratebay and the torrents would still exist. |
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People keep saying request a refund, which is what I am trying to do, but to my knowledge,minersource does not have a way to do this. So lets explore that channel and figure out a way to get me my money. If anyone wants to buy my x-3 and 8 x-1's please let me know. People will continue to request a refund until a channel is opened by which this can happen. If this launch will be as successful as it is still made out to be, then not many people will be requesting refunds and it shouldn't be a problem or break the bank.
And for those saying that BA can't swing anymore than 25%, that should matter very little. If you make customers happy with your product launch, you will be very well off on the future and make a ton of money, and if that means taking a loss now, well who cares. Make your customers happy and they will come back, but make your customers mad, and we won't be purchasing again in the future, and you will go broke.
You probably missed it due to all the garbage in this thread but bobsag said he will be talking with BA to clarify refunds soon. And BA is dealing with refunds through their support ticket system I believe. |
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1) Governments are likely going to be increasingly hostile to Bitcoin
It will be simply asked to issuer instead. That's the thing; you have to trust the issuer in the end, and if an issuer can stay clear from governments, then so can the exchange. If it isn't utterly incompetent.
You're not solving anything. Simple. State the problems you want to solve, explain how "decentralized exchanges" fix it. Decentralized exchanges would mean the gov can't walk over to ukyos house and tell him to shut down his exchange. They would be forced to go after the asset issuers instead. And wot is exactly the type of thing I'm talking about. But bitcoin-otc is pretty shitty and centralized. |
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@OleOle ... Mountains of Prosperos on Ebay  Well... As far as I know, there are just 2 offers ! Once again... Why some people want to destroy BA with lies, wrong information, trying to scare every potentiel buyer ... When will know why these people are acting this way, then will know the hidden reasons of their behaviour ! By the way, I dont quit BA ... I do trust them being able to provide us what we funded ! Michel. Apparently you can make a mountain out of 2 prosperos? I can think of 2 reasons people would want to troll BA: - They own antminers and don't want to get destroyed - They are trolls who take pleasure in telling people how stupid they are for buying a product that happened to have delays |
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A very well designed and coded Decentralized Exchange could certainly make it very difficult to scam people. You could feasibly design a p2p exchange with little potential to scam people using some sort of cryptographic escrow could you not? Certainly FAR less scam potential than with a centralized exchange, I would think. It is technically feasible, it is just a very difficult project.
Escrow would only prevent a small portion of scams. Scams like labcoin will still continue to thrive but the only solution to that would be due diligence. Also some sort of reputation system like ebays might help. But anything is an improvement to the system we are using now. |
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If BA could afford to give people double their hash or machines don't you think they'd of done this? They know how this works. They don't need someone to explain to them the difficulty rises every ten days stuff and so what was expected isn't going to be of the same value as 25% extra hash rate for four months. They know that. They just can't afford to give away double the machines or 100% extra hash is most likely the issue.
If they could, they would have sold 4TH miners instead of 2TH and still profit from it.
Very good points, which indicates that chip fabrication should not go ahead and refunds should be organised. You pretend like you know what the difficulty will be in 2 months. Why don't you just request a refund and quit bitching? BA is not going to ship us hardware that cost $500 to manufacture when we paid $350 for it just because they are 2 months late. They will ship us hardware that meets the advertised specs and anything more is a generous gift. If you don't want a 120gh/s device in ~2 months (which still happens to be the best priced) then you should request a refund as there is little chance you are going to get the 200% extra hashrate you feel you deserve. |
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I am pretty butthurt about all the pyramid schemes I didn't get involved in early you're right. How early did you get in? How much btc have you made off your recruits?
Here's some interesting actual data: the original shares were sold through a blind placement. They went for 9085 satoshi on the first round and 2433 satoshi on the 2nd round. Currently the shares trade around 90,000 satoshi. That's a 1000% to 4000% increase over less than two years, and some off the cuff calculation would indicate S.MPOE has generated just about a billion dollars' worth of new wealth for its holders. Which favorably compares with the sum total of all Bitcoin related ventures, plus all alt-chains, plus everything else. MPEx is, quite simply, the biggest thing that ever happened in this space. On the other score: MPEx has been humiliating the SEC in public since 2012. Moreover, the DFS itself came to the conclusion that MP's 2012 article on the topic of Bitcoin regulation is both sound and controls the matter. That's right: it took the USG two years of hewing and hawing to finally work up the balls to come out and plainly state "yeah, that MP guy actually knew what's what way before we figured it out, you should probably just listen to him in the future because we're 12 and what is this." Sooner or later you're going to just learn to deal with it: there are huge things in Bitcoin, whether you agree or not, whether you understand how they work or not. They don't give a shit about you, or your government. Again, whether you agree or not. Such is life. Wow your ponzi has increased in value from when it sold ~1 million shares to the point where it sold 150 million? What about all those idiots along the way that didn't get in at ipo and bought/are still buying absurdly overpriced shares in this ponzi? If I can find 1 idiot to buy 1 share of my company (which will have 100 trillion shares) for 0.01btc does that mean my company is worth 1 trillion bitcoins? Of course not. You must be huffing paint if you think mpex generated 1 billion usd worth of wealth for its users. That statement is an flat out lie and you know it. You moved around 14k worth of wealth last year and your ponzi (with 85% shares unsold to public) is evaluated at 1 billion usd. You are right about mpex being the biggest thing in this space. But only in the space of bitcoin ponzi schemes. Your blog posts are so embarrassing it is honestly a waste of time reading. You pretend that bitcoin cannot be regulated by the SEC because it is virtual money. That statement might hold grounds with the armchair investors/mpex cult members but anyone not involved in this ponzi will tell you that that statement is bullshit and would never hold up in court. Everything you say is carefully constructed to deceive those with a lack of understanding of real world finance. But I guess it takes 30btc for some to learn a life lesson (on how to lose 30btc or more). Since predicting the most obvious shit elevates one to the status of "god of bitcoin finance" and I predicted that all of mpex revenue is from new recruits does that make me a god in your eyes? So why haven't you? not 1 trillion btc like mpoe pr perceives. And I prefer to earn my btc not steal it from naive investors. At least you are honest in the estimation of your skill level.  I forgot scamming retards takes skill. A skill ron l popescu has mastered. |
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Decentralized exchanges are the only way to go for two reasons:
1) Governments are going increasingly hostile to Bitcoin as it becomes apparent that BTC shows how weak fiat currencies are in comparison.
2) WAY too many scammers and scams going on the world of Bitcoin. How many people have lost money to exchanges that have unscrupulous or thieving operators ? [raises hand] Even in the best of times they may just shut suddenly taking all your money with them. For myself, the last time this with BitFunder. The guy running that, Ukyo, stole millions of dollars worth of deposits and hasn't even needed to give an excuse to people about what happened to their money. Screw that (for me anyways). I'm using exchanges at the absolute minimum these days although I used to be an active trader and investor.
I think a year from now -- or maybe just really hoping -- that decentralized exchanges will be a serious option for the community.
Decentralized exchanges would not reduce the amount of scams whatsoever and possibly do the opposite. However I think many overlook how awesome it would be to be able to take colored coins representing a single asicminer share and transfer it to any exchange that deals with colored coins. Rather than having to trust one guy editing a shareholder list which can be compromised many ways, a blockchain based system would allow for extremely easy and safe transferring of shares. I still think centralized exchanges will be needed for trading but for keeping records and transferring shares colored coins would be much easier imo. |
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I am pretty butthurt about all the pyramid schemes I didn't get involved in early you're right. How early did you get in? How much btc have you made off your recruits?
Here's some interesting actual data: the original shares were sold through a blind placement. They went for 9085 satoshi on the first round and 2433 satoshi on the 2nd round. Currently the shares trade around 90,000 satoshi. That's a 1000% to 4000% increase over less than two years, and some off the cuff calculation would indicate S.MPOE has generated just about a billion dollars' worth of new wealth for its holders. Which favorably compares with the sum total of all Bitcoin related ventures, plus all alt-chains, plus everything else. MPEx is, quite simply, the biggest thing that ever happened in this space. On the other score: MPEx has been humiliating the SEC in public since 2012. Moreover, the DFS itself came to the conclusion that MP's 2012 article on the topic of Bitcoin regulation is both sound and controls the matter. That's right: it took the USG two years of hewing and hawing to finally work up the balls to come out and plainly state "yeah, that MP guy actually knew what's what way before we figured it out, you should probably just listen to him in the future because we're 12 and what is this." Sooner or later you're going to just learn to deal with it: there are huge things in Bitcoin, whether you agree or not, whether you understand how they work or not. They don't give a shit about you, or your government. Again, whether you agree or not. Such is life. Wow your ponzi has increased in value from when it sold ~1 million shares to the point where it sold 150 million? What about all those idiots along the way that didn't get in at ipo and bought/are still buying absurdly overpriced shares in this ponzi? If I can find 1 idiot to buy 1 share of my company (which will have 100 trillion shares) for 0.01btc does that mean my company is worth 1 trillion bitcoins? Of course not. You must be huffing paint if you think mpex generated 1 billion usd worth of wealth for its users. That statement is an flat out lie and you know it. You moved around 14k worth of wealth last year and your ponzi (with 85% shares unsold to public) is evaluated at 1 billion usd. You are right about mpex being the biggest thing in this space. But only in the space of bitcoin ponzi schemes. Your blog posts are so embarrassing it is honestly a waste of time reading. You pretend that bitcoin cannot be regulated by the SEC because it is virtual money. That statement might hold grounds with the armchair investors/mpex cult members but anyone not involved in this ponzi will tell you that that statement is bullshit and would never hold up in court. Everything you say is carefully constructed to deceive those with a lack of understanding of real world finance. But I guess it takes 30btc for some to learn a life lesson (on how to lose 30btc or more). Since predicting the most obvious shit elevates one to the status of "god of bitcoin finance" and I predicted that all of mpex revenue is from new recruits does that make me a god in your eyes? So why haven't you? I can but I would only profit 0.01 not 1 trillion btc like mpoe pr perceives. And I prefer to earn my btc not steal it from naive investors. |
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Why don't you just submit a refund request?
What do you expect to get out of bitching and moaning?
I think he is expecting to get answers. Just because he is asking questions does not mean he wants a refund, I know personally I want the equipment I paid for. I think most of us want to see this project succeed not die in the water but some people have to take responsibility for these missteps and lack of transparency. I too wish they could deliver on time but they missed their tapeout by a month and a half. How will transparency/identities allow us to get our hardware any faster? I just want to know how we will be compensated for the delays and how refunds will be handled. And as matt said he will get back to us with those answers. Also will batch1 customers be compensated for preordering early |
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Is there anybody do some simple mathematics about total dividend we can expect in 2014 ?
Just based off last years profit maybe another 200k btc |
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You still have not addressed why jan 3 announcement was not made.
Also, it would've apparent to management that feb 24 target would be missed even if jan 3 target was met based on current timeline.
Who made decision to go ahead knowing targets would be missed, especially in light of the fact that difficulty increases is rising exponentially?
Until you tell us who is responsible, BA has not levelled with us in my eyes.
Also, who will be paying you in event minions are launched?
I'm sorry you feel that way. I do not have those answers. Then BA has not levelled with us. Why don't you just submit a refund request? What do you expect to get out of bitching and moaning? |
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