I'm sorry but seeing how it is you who is making these wild claims about how currencies work and what kind of currency Bitcoin is and how it's all going to work out or not, the burden of proof for all these wild claims lies solely with you. I don't have to prove a damn thing. I'm perfectly comfortable pointing out that you're merely making statements without any evidence pretending as if you're teaching us some sort of facts of reality.

Matters to who? You?

In case you're interest, to me it's irrelevant. What actually really matters to me is that my purchasing power isn't being stolen by some third party counterfeiting the currency.

You are right this definitely is a simple and also fallacious logic. The Bitcoin economy has so far shown the complete opposite of your simple logic!


I get furious with people who just spout BS they merely heard being spouted by some other human being having zero evidence and facts to back it up. And it's this kind of irresponsible lack of critical thinking and lack of respect for the scientific method that has the whole world convinced of soo many ridiculous beliefs such as religions, statism and the con that is fiat money and central/fractional reserve banking.

I see, ty for the explanation.

I understand that but I thought when this idea was first presented it was said that the user would keep both key's a in a backup wallet so you couldn't be held hostage with your service provider.

Wait, so OP's scenario is plausible?? I thought the multisig transaction idea was suppose to have a backup wallet where you didn't need anything else to have access to your Bitcoins?

I think this is an interesting proposal but most likely a flawed one. The flaw I see is that you have to bind the issuance curve to time and not difficulty in order to insure the top limit and scarcity, so it would take a very long time for any Bitcoins to exist. So there would be a big question of whether or not the early adopters would have had enough incentive to actually participate for such a long time and make what we have now possible if they knew that what they were getting in the first third or so of your suggested Sigmoid issuance curve was going to get wiped out down the road with significant increase in inflation(expansion of the supply). Would they really invest the time and costs to ultimately get nothing in return?

Besides I don't understand what people think Satoshi could possibly do with all his Bitcoins? Don't you understand that if he tried to cash out even a tenth of his million or how ever many he has, he'd completely crash the price and could never sell all of them at current spot. So I can't imagine why he'd ever do that aside from trying to destroy what he had created. I know that if I had that many I wouldn't try and crash their worth by flooding the market, I'd try to keep them and maybe only slowly sell a small amount to maintain their price and my net worth.

I think the biggest reason people have such a hard time with the way Bitcoin came into existence is because they live in this weird upside down false paradigm of the real world where conmen run the monetary system, the central banks, the government and the big banking corporations. You simply can't see the reality because of being immersed in the system you live in which is a total and complete fraud and that being the reason there's such high wealth distribution disparity. You just don't understand that it's the system we have in the real world is what made it possible and is the real con and that the Bitcoin system is nothing like it and therefor not a con but perfectly legitimate.

I strongly agree! That lecture is one of the most important arithmetic lesson one could possibly learn from, especially when you daily hear our overlord saying their target inflation is 2% annually.

Maybe instead of 'what' you should be asking 'why'. I invite you to spend 19min on this video that I have a feeling you will not regret spending that time on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp0HIF3SfI4

Outstanding post, sir!

One more thing I'd like to add to the topic of transparency is that I could see how normally a business doesn't really need to be as transparent as I'm asking cryptoxchange to be because of what their product is. If you produce a gadget I wouldn't care about your financial state of the business or how many clients you have, I'd care about the gadget and your transparency concerning the properties of the gadget. Your financial state of your business wouldn't affect whether or not the gadget does what it's suppose to and is of the desired quality.

However your product isn't a gadget. Your product is a trading platform and if you really want to incentivize people to use your product you should make the best possible effort to be as transparent about the properties of your product as possible. Unfortunately for you part of being transparent about your product in this case is also revealing the financial state of your business.


I know this is hard to swallow because of the weird upside down world we daily operate in. Take for instance banks, the biggest financial businesses. They are all insured by the government everywhere around the world so clients simply don't care about their financial state. They know if the bank isn't being run prudently and is gambling on risky investments such as very risky subprime mortgage instruments, they know that even if their bank loses a ton of money it wont go bust because the government will come to the rescue and make the clients hole. So no one dues any due diligence and these financial businesses have stopped being as transparent about their financial state. Also people have become complacent and somehow convinced this is a natural state of affairs when in facts there is a huge amount of moral hazard present. Well let me assure you, it is not natural for so many clients in the financial world to simply not care about what their chosen bank does. If these banks would want to operate in a free market, such as the Bitcoin economy is, where there are 0 guarantees, where clients are forced to do their due diligence before they trust businesses or face grave consequences in loses, businesses will need to be transparent. And you will have to snap out of that false paradigm of the physical world poisoned with moral hazard you live in and change your attitude if you want to succeed in this truly free market.

Like I said, I will not change to another exchange because of mtgox's liquidity unless an exchange sets a critically higher standard for transparency. Then and only then I'd switch and I know there's a lot of mtgox's clients that think exactly like me.

I agree 100%. However a business isn't an individual. How am I suppose to make an informed decision where to trade my fiat for Bitcoins if all I can see about them is irrelevant when it comes to credibility of being an honest exchange business? How can I not fear it's a scam and they'll run with the money because they aren't making enough profit to dig themselves out of the investment hole? How am I suppose to have confidence their volume is going improve if I can't see that their clientele is actually growing or that they have an ever larger deposit volume..

Yes I'm all for personal privacy of any sorts. Business however isn't personal, in fact it's very public. And the best businesses don't hide much at all. They don't have to.

Right now all my Bitcoins are on mtgox, even though I'm happy they finally show their entire order book, not just a 7.something% up and down from spot like they did for a while, I still have no idea how many active accounts there are, how many dark orders there are, I'm certain they are making a profit by now, so I know they'll keep running but I have no idea if they actually have the funds they are suppose to have, I don't know if their user base is growing or shrinking, if they are receiving more deposits or see more withdrawals, I'm very much in the dark about most things about mtgox.

But because I see the liquidity and I know they are in the black by now by a huge margin and probably aren't likely to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs I settled to keep my money there. That's right, merely settled. But I'm just yearning for an exchange that would show everything they possibly could to move my money there because I feel the more information I have the better decisions I can make when I trade and I strongly believe the more stable the price would get. That's right. All this volatility and bubbles are the results of people trading almost blind. If mtgox gave us full transparency there would be significantly less of that.

So right now you can't convince me to switch away from mtgox, unless you can be more transparent, their liquidity simply outweighs anything you could possibly offer, except that.

That's not how multisig as far as I understand them will work.. You will always have a secured backup wallet with both keys.

Update 3:

7 days ago I got this email:

 

Oh well. I replied asking why, but haven't heard back since.

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UPDATE 2:

I'm talking with the filmmaker:


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UPDATE: Now available at: http://www.endoftheroadfilm.com/

Unfortunately it's not free and costs $4.99 to rent and stream or $10 to buy and download but from judging by one review it's well worth it!

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I just saw Peter Schiff post a link on his FB page to this trailer and I thought it's production looked amazing and it really could turn out a major documentary telling people exactly what's going on in the financial world right now.

Check it out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1DqBNE0vgE

I think you did a great service to our community with your effort that you put into your article, so thank you very much!

Yuck, a state worshiper, how disgusting it is to see those words written.

LOL, what are you 5 years old? THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES IN LIFE.

All you can do is minimize the risks. Right now every fking thug in a blue costume with a gun rapes and plunders people on a daily basis. EVERY person is subjected to the crime of theft via taxes and many are subjected to the crime of more theft or even kidnapping because they happen to break one of the arbitrary rules the government mafia decided it will enforce. Not to mention the petty criminals stealing and raping only because they know the worst they could face is some jail time..

Do you really believe this would be possible if every person on the planet carried a weapon and valued their self-ownership of their body and their life more than being alive?

I'm much rather bare the risk we shoot and kill each other once in a while and live truly free the majority of my time alive than being a debt/monetary slave for life.

Exactly. There's no urgency, so I really don't understand why the urgency to ram through a proposal with any risk attached with the excuse that nothing will get done otherwise? Gavin?

Not by themselves alone, no. But you forgot I also spoke about their availability. If EVERYONE has a weapon, no one will use violence anymore. Why would they if they are guaranteed to die.

Just based on this I'll tell you right now, that if the bitcoin systems's integrity is compromised even for a second, I'm out and will never be back. It's whole value to me depends on it and I know I'm in the majority who think like this.