But but but they said bitcoin was dead.
O.k. I am going to go on a limb and make a bold prediction. Five days from this post (date and time), we are going above 8,888 pages in this thread, unless the post-dumpers go on a dumping rampage, for shits and giggles, then INEVITABLY they will NOT be able to dump beyond 8 days - therefore, the outside INEVITABILITY will be that this thread will go above 8,888 pages in 8 days from this post (date and time). You heard it here, first!!!  No, I was first because I came up with the 8888 because Christine Lagardes 7777 did not work. I said it over and over again. 8888 will be the bubble start NO.... I am the first!!!! I invented the number 8,888, or at least I was the first to identify it in the wild. NOT meaning to toot my own horn too much - however, this thread seems to be nearly exactly on schedule for my above page count prediction (which will be exactly the date and time of my prediction for 8,888 pages, one hour from NOW). I MAY be willing to give a tiny bit of credit to Findftp for some of his added clairvoyance in connection with this page count matter. On a related note: let the post dumps begin, if you page dumpers have any such inclination - yet, as I already asserted in my already stated prediction, inevitably, we are going to cross the 8,888 page count in this thread, either within an hour or within two days from now.... in spite of post dumps (whether concerted or NOT)... On the other hand, the connection or correlation of page count and BTC price seems to be an entirely different matter and out of the realm of my expertise. |
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i'm gonna be declaring a hell of a capital loss this year.
ONLY if you sell..... ARE YOU SELLING? i cant do this "marked market" BS accounting i've heard about ? "Mark-to-market" or some shit its all very confusing Maybe I do NOT understand either, but I thought that any capital gains or losses, only matter once they are realized, and that is once they are sold? I am NOT sure whether market to market would matter, and if you are engaging in trades? Or if you move them around would probably NOT matter. I would only count if I actually cashed out, which trading on an exchange could make matters more complicated, I suppose. |
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Is Tim Draper the biggest bagholder right now?
He seems to be a pretty good sized bagholder, and even though the amount of the sale was never publicly released, I would imagine that he paid more than $650 per BTC for those coins, and maybe even closer to $700 per BTC.. That is my wild guess based on the circumstances of the sale and the fact that he won all 10 lots of coins. |
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i'm gonna be declaring a hell of a capital loss this year.
ONLY if you sell..... ARE YOU SELLING? |
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perma-bulls... perma-bulls everywhere...
perma-bulls are always bullish, if your waiting for us to be bearish... you're gonna be waiting a long time... And that's why there's nearly no difference between trolls (like me) and perma-bulls. It's a extreme position far away from reality on the markets. Delusion. The only real difference is that most trolls only fake their bearish delusion, while perma-bulls are serious with their bullish outlook at any moment. Perma-bulls ARE (serious) trolls. YES... Point admitted to. In other words, you admit that you are delusional!!!!!! |
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Anything to do with the transaction spam made by a certain company whose name I won't say? They are spamming the whole blockchain with 1 satoshi transactions Link or it didn't happen.  |
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It depends what the main goal is?
Would it be nice to have the freedom to do more things in life? Sure. Money is just a necessary tool that can be used for great good in the world. Money is useful and there are some things I would like to use it for, but there are many more important things in life than money! But we should be wise with it too. Some people think Bitcoin is a foolish investment. I think keeping all of my cash in USD and stocks could be a foolish investment. We put our trust in the wrong things sometimes.
I'm not even saying wanting to make money is bad, I mean we're all here, are we not? I'm trying to make as much money as I can too.. I'm just using you as an example to the forum for how you can make buttloads of hypothetical money and then still lose most of it due to tunnel vision and stubbornness in your beliefs. I could lose every penny I have and that would be OK, really. I can't trust in money. We trust in money too much in this world unfortunately. I think I do enjoy the adrenalin rush a little too much during a bubble though. Perhaps that is wrong? That could be greed.  I need to think about that. It is perhaps an area in my life I should pray about. If you think I am stubborn about Bitcoin, don't even get me started about my Christian beliefs. Shut the fuck up you attention seeking whore. What a lovely and patient fellow. NOT    |
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This place would be so much better if everyone would just stop quoting idiot stolfi.
It's amazing you guys still don't get it. This isn't about Bitcoin. This is about him getting attention. All you are doing is feeding his need for attention. He will keep saying the opposite of what you say just to get attention.
Why don't you people realize this?
If this thread would be closed he would find another high traffic thread about a much talked about subject. He will read it and then start posting in a way that will make a lot of people reply to him. This can be a forum about candy, seals or trees. He doesn't care. He is obsessed with getting attention and you are giving it to him.
Actually he's a paid troll. He's paid to be here. As I'm sure there are others here as well... starting to think mmitech is a paid troll too, the way he blathers on and on ad nauseum... Well unlike most of idiots who talk about me being a troll, I actually owned Bitcoin and I actually made good profits and that was achieved by using so commonsense and objectivity. I am not a Bitcoin die hard cultist and if Bitcoin would crash down and burn that wouldn't change my life style allot... I have a profession that I can start using again anytime, I was(am) a successful engineer even before I learned about Bitcoin. It is nice to hear about you and that you are a real person.. but why do you feel so compelled to brag about everything? There are probably better ways to communicate the same message without the bragging aspect, no? |
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These sort of people would never dare post in such an area, because the opposition to their tired unsophisticated "critiques" would get completely decimated and ignored by people with any kind of subject matter expertise.
don't worry about the other sub-forum, because unlike this sub-forum, people there are aware of these challenges and acknowledge them, and most of them are fairly objective and not a cultist blind speculator like you, I would like to add that most of people there come from IT careers, people that can drive their own dreams, not like some of the speculators here who trash everyone just because they didn't achieve anything in their lives so they count on Bitcoin as their only and last hope. YES... this will win people over to you.  |
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--snip--
Amusing that you say bitcoin will fail yet assume the transaction volume goes up 100 times
Don't be ignorant, when did I say Bitcoin will fail ? I said IF these issues wont be fixed then Bitcoin wont survive 20 years, and I added that TCP/IP didn't have much changes in the protocol over a decade, all you wrote above is still theoretically right, but when you get a practical solution that can be implemented we can discuss things further. and no, I don't think Bitcoin is the greatest thing after internet... this is an insult for all the huge innovators and innovations that took place the last 20 years. well done snipping my reply out of context as I immediately followed with a statement of you using the "if it doesn't change in 20 years" excuse. So your argument boils down to "There are potential scalability and security issues if bitcoin is not maintained for 20 years" IPv4 will/is running out of address space. So should I say it is a failed protocol? Should I call it useless? That issue was known for a long time. Or even more to the point. Do the address space limitations of IPv4 directly prevent you from writing witty comments in this forum? (assuming you or your provider still run on it) The same goes for the bitcoin protocol. Absolutely essential changes will come when needed, more is bonus. I asked you why you believe that technically bitcoin is so flawed that it simply can't last 20 years. The issues you posted are possible problems that may or may not be relevant. To make such a definitive claim I would have liked to hear something along the lines of "at difficulty x the nonce is too small to guarantee that a solution can be found" (btw this is a real possibility) That would be a real issue. [edit] just to clarify : the nonce is 4 bytes, the block hash 32. You can vary other things like the timestamp but unless you can ensure that you have at least 32 bytes to modify you may not find a solution Btw I agree with you that bitcoin is not the greatest thing after the internet but I think it is quite significant. Some people get carried away with their enthusiasm. It remains too early to determine for sure, but bitcoin carries a lot of very interesting innovations that have never been implemented in such a package - accordingly bitcoin does appear to be amongst the greatest inventions since the invention of the internet (by Al Gore). |
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ok you've got my intention there, this suggest that you have most of the issues figured out, how do you think we will solve:
1-The Block size limit when the number of transaction/minute is 100 times higher than today.
2-The block chain size when it exceeds 200GB or 1TB ? most users or services will have to use clusters of storage, if the adoption rate picks up this has to be fixed really fast.
3-The energy waste, it has been known that when the price goes up mining becomes more profitable and more resources are brought online...resources that most of us consider wasted, as of today the hashrate is more that 250 Petahash/s, assuming that the worst chip on the network consume 0.5w/ghs (which is way too optimistic) this means that at this point miners consume way more than 125 hourly Megawatts... just FYI a typical nuclear plant produce from 500-2000 hourly Megawatts.
4-DDOS attacks: when Bitcoin become bigger, there will be Big services that run the Bitcoind in order to offer their services, organized groups can run denial of service attacks against these services, you can read more about how they can do it in that wiki I provided before.
5-Malleability issue, and don't tell me it is not an issue, because it really is, and it is not fixed yet, they just found some work around it.
6-Double Spending, even if you don't have 51% of the network you can perform double spending with as little as 25% of the network,
7- The 51% attack, we all know what it is, it is achievable, any government can achieve it if they want to kill Bitcoin, even at this point.
8-man in the middle or packet sniffing, also described in that wiki.
There many more issues, but these are the one that concerns me for now. now I would like to hear your solutions.
Two more: 9- The average wait time for 1 confirmation is about 10 minutes; and, in a significant fraction of cases, can be 30 minutes or more. That is too much even for internet payments, and is unacceptable for shopping at brick-and-mortar stores. (In contrast, verification and payment with a chip-enabled credit card, which is the standard here in Brazil, takes less than 1 minute.) 10- There is no way to correct mistakes (like sending bitcoins to the wrong address) or to recover stolen coins. There is also the question of security against theft, but I am tired of arguing the obvious there... If you really care about the answer to questions such as these, you should probably ask in the 'Development & Technical Discussion' forum. The people in there can answer your questions handily, and very few of them read this thread, I think. The big assumption is that these posters want a real discussion (they really do NOT,but they want to spread FUDD) . Additionally, does sound like a topic for a different thread - however, we do get into quite a variety in this thread - at least on a more superficial level. |
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well I think most of you Bitcoin cultists refuse to be objective, and considering the fact that most of you call Bitcoin the most important innovation after internet, I would just like to point out that TCP/IP protocol didn't change much in a decade or so.... and no, Google is very very bad example in this case, we are talking about protocols that we can build on..
But this is where you are mistaken. Bitcoin is a protocol, that is true. Yet you fail to understand what it does. Bitcoin forms probabilistic consensus on a ledger of units where ownership is proven through digital signatures. The value lies in the ledger and that consensus is formed on it. Not on the concrete protocol specification See, I know exactly what is Bitcoin, and everything I wrote above has a simple yet a deep meaning to it, now if you fail to see that, this simply means that you are way too much invested (blindly invested) into Bitcoin, and I honestly have no energy to argue or explain that to you. It is my opinion on this matter, consider me wrong with the possibility of being right, also all you said above doesn't argue or solve the real known issues, so I don't see any value with arguing further with you. You may be correct in the end that bitcoin has various flaws that cannot be overcome, and maybe you need NOT attempt to articulate your concerns to convince others, especially in a public forum like this. Your problem, even in the above post, is your patronizing tone to suggest that you have higher knowledge, insight and vision than others, which is frequently coupled with your attempts to persuade others to follow in your direction. When you seem to be striving to get others to follow, then that requires more explanatory obligations, IMHBO. |
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if the technical part of Bitcoin stay as it is today, then simply Bitcoin wont survive for 20 years... and this is for sure.
You are bullish, in this case I'll only give it 4 - 5 years. apart from the obvious answer to extend functionality would any of you care to elaborate why. And please give concrete technical reasons Even if you cant figure for your self half of the challenges Bitcoin is facing, there is a wiki for that... take some time and read about it here Edit: for some reason they didn't include the Block size limit and blockchain size problem (could be in the future) At least you are providing some support for your rationale, this time, rather than just spreading unsubstantiated FUD. I am NOT inclined to read through that wiki in detail, but just looking at the topics, I see that they seem to be mostly technical and there may be some additional reasons for bitcoin's potential failure that is NOT explored, including political regulation / hostility and market manipulation. |
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...
if the technical part of Bitcoin stay as it is today, then simply Bitcoin wont survive for 20 years... and this is for sure.
You are bullish, in this case I'll only give it 4 - 5 years. apart from the obvious answer to extend functionality would any of you care to elaborate why. And please give concrete technical reasons Neither of these guys are going to give you anything concrete.. beyond spreading some FUD - possibly some other bear would chime in, but few who participate in this thread have any decent explanation(s).. probably need to ask a bull in order to get a more accurate assessment. |
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aww someone deleted my blood bath post i guess we are in the stage of denial. >10% drop coming soon. *edit: so much for free speech, fascist wankers 1st: you gotta admit that the bloodbath pic was pretty gory and likely beyond acceptable 2nd: drop in price is NOT inevitable and likely does NOT rise to the level of a "blood bath" 3rd: there is no such thing as free speech on a private forum... (so you likely misunderstand the concept, at least in the legal sense) |
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Last days hours of humanity BTC>400$
The next 12 hours are critical and crucial to the next 20 years of bitcoin... Brace yourselves!!!!!!!!!!!  if the technical part of Bitcoin stay as it is today, then simply Bitcoin wont survive for 20 years... and this is for sure. Surely bitcoin's ability to survive for 20 years is a factor and should be planned for; however, a lot can happen in 20 years, so my investment into BTC is NOT locked in for 20 years. Will probably need to continue to monitor how BTC is doing, and surely these days are important building years with more volatility and anticipated less volatility as the market cap rises... but a lot of the specifics regarding how fast and how high bitcoin is going is speculative and we have to continue to monitor it. If there are any specific technicalities that need to be addressed and/or fixed, then I would anticipate that those technicalities and fundamentals would be addressed and/or fixed as we go. For now, BTC seems to be amongst the best of the longer term cryptos in town. |
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When bitcoin hits 10 thousand, bitcoin will be used almost everywhere, so I will use it as regular money, and not convert it to cash. Hopefully even pay my bills with bitcoin.
Personally, I am of the opinion that currently the BTC infrastructure is well capable of $10k per BTC... think about it... if BTC were $1k per coin (which it has been in the last year) then the market cap is $14 billion, and if BTC is $10k, then the market cap would be $140 billion - which is NOT a lot in terms of an asset class and/or currency that serves a variety of functions including the storage and transfer of value, and BTC need not be widely adopted in order to achieve and maintain a $140 billion dollar market cap. NONETHELESS, likely the first trip to $10k BTC is NOT going to hold, and there will remain some volatility. Now, on the other hand, probably, the BTC infrastructure is NOT quite yet ready for a $1.4 trillion market cap (that would be $100k per coin).. Accordingly, maybe 3-5 years or longer will be necessary to continue to develop the bitcoin infrastructure in that $1.4 trillion dollar market cap direction, and possibly $1.4 trillion as a market cap would bring considerably greater adoption to BTC; however, even $1.4 trillion in today's dollars is only about 20% the market cap of gold.... far from establishing a pervasive world-wide phenomenon. ...as it continues to bleed value. Hmmm. You are bleeding value from this thread, BlindMayorBitcorn, because you are NOT really saying anything substantively, but instead just picking holes and probing for BTC flaws... but let me entertain you, briefly. More or less, BTC prices have been bleeding value for nearly the past 10 months; however, the last 10 months of BTC is NOT the totality of BTC's prices NOR the totality of BTC's history NOR the totality of BTC's building of fundamentals.. though there have been a lot of BTC fundamentals built within the last 10 months, including network, merchants, liquidation opportunities, ATMs, government regulations (some acceptance), increased world wide adoption, increased public awareness, etc. Accordingly, you need to consider BTC future value and price beyond its mere price today. Ok I can see where I'm not welcome. Picking holes and probing for flaws is not cool around these parts. Well enjoy your Lambos then I'm sure. And pity the kids who bought in at $650. Ok.. bye bye.. |
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