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2781  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Is There A Good Reason To Still Be Calling BTC Money/Currency? on: June 22, 2011, 08:39:24 PM
It behaves as a commodity and I was inclined since the very beginning I learned about it to call it a commodity.

I agree with the OP, I'd rather we'd call it a commodity then a currency.
2782  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Curious - Bitcoin is still beta - why should I invest? on: June 22, 2011, 04:20:24 PM
I really believe in the P2P cryptographic future, but I just want to play devil's advocate and do my homework before sinking capital into it.

Bitcoins are not an investment, who told you that bullshit? Bitcoin is a vehicle for digitally transferring value from your pocket to someone else's. No one is promising you any sort of profits for holding Bitcoins.

It's really simple. If you want a simple to use online payment system with unique properties, you'll want to use Bitcoin. No capital needed.
2783  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: SHA-256 hacked, man gets away with 7 blocks in 10 minutes on: June 22, 2011, 02:36:46 AM
You clearly have no idea how statistics work do you huh?

Hey I bet you'll probably also believe Derren Brown figured out how to throw heads 10 times in a row? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1uJD1O3L08
2784  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Who has the authority? on: June 21, 2011, 02:05:12 PM
There is in courts. A signed contract gives you legal recourse, a sign does not.
Yes, it does. Otherwise, you could hand the money over the counter and the store owner could simply put it in his pocket and kick you out of the store. An offer (with precise terms) and acceptance (with consideration) is approximately equivalent to a written contract in every legal jurisdiction I know of and by common sense.

Ok, so you're saying all I have to do is make a fake sign that a car costs $1, take that sign into a car dealership and place it next to a new car and if my fake was perfect, that's legal grounds to stand on and demand that car for $1?

Really now?

Btw if you're going to argue against my analogy, I believe a hacker dumping a lot of money on the exchange crashing the price to $0.01 almost perfectly resembles a fake sign for $1 next to a new car, wouldn't you say?
2785  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Who has the authority? on: June 21, 2011, 01:40:08 PM
There is in courts. A signed contract gives you legal recourse, a sign does not.
2786  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Who has the authority? on: June 21, 2011, 01:28:46 PM
To the community;

A free society perspective on the matter


The answer to the question who has the authority over what happens now at Mt.gox is Mt.Gox has. Period.
They own the place, they (temporarily) own your money and they can do what ever the hell they want.



Yes the money was yours and you had(past tense) the authority when it was in your possession but the second you deposited that money into Mt.Gox you gave up that authority and surrendered it to Mt.Gox and that's the reality of the situation.

True, you voluntarily surrendered your authority because you trusted Mt.Gox and you even rewarded this trust by paying a commission on all of your trades. But that doesn't mean you have any guarantees you're money or your trades are being properly protected. Mt.Gox may promise you they'll protect your money and trades but you can't force them to.

Unless you signed a private contract with them stating otherwise, all you can do is trust them and ultimately they're in control. Again, the reality of the situation.


If they break your trust, if they mishandle your money and trades the only recourse you have is to withdraw your money and take it and your commissions some place else, hurt them where it hurts them the most, their wallet.


And that dear Bitcoin community is how a free society and the free market would deal with this fiasco.



2787  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Poll: Rollback, No Rollback? on: June 21, 2011, 01:08:41 PM
mtgox can do what ever they want, they own the exchange, they alone have the authority.

BUT:

People who like it can reward them by staying and continuing to pay a commission on trades to them, people who don't can punish them by leaving and taking their commissions to some place else.


Let the free market decide.
2788  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [POLL] Roll it Back or Not? on: June 21, 2011, 12:56:17 PM
mtgox can do what ever they want, they own the exchange, they alone have the authority.

BUT:

People who like it can reward them by staying and continuing to pay a commission on trades to them, people who don't can punish them by leaving and taking their commissions to some place else.


Let the free market decide.
2789  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: "I'm Kevin, and I'm full of shit" [a must read!] on: June 21, 2011, 01:49:14 AM
Maybe if he didn't contradict himself in the very same post with his story he would have had a bit more credibility.

But guess what, he did and he doesn't.


I mean he isn't even attempting to explain these contradictions.. What more is there to say to that?
2790  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin: Now with fractional reserve? on: June 21, 2011, 01:34:36 AM
The only way to really be sure for any service really that we deposit our Bitcoins into that they actually have our Bitcoins in their possession is for them to always keep them in the address we deposited to so that we can always simply check the blockexplorer.com and have full transparency.
2791  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: "I'm Kevin, and I'm full of shit" [a must read!] on: June 21, 2011, 12:52:18 AM
I don't understand his story either. At one point he says he submitted his ID, etc. to Mt. Gox to have his $1,000 limit raised. Elsewhere he says he couldn't withdraw more than ~600 BTC because of the withdrawal limit! Seems like one contradicts the other. Or am I missing something.

600 BTC is more than $1000. He never said "his" limit was $1000

ORLY?

I attempted to withdraw the bitcoin balance into my own wallet, and hit the limit that Mt Gox has, preventing you from withdrawing more than $1000 USD worth of bitcoins (at the current market value) in a day. This transferred 643.27 bitcoins to my personal bitcoin account before hitting that limit.

Can you read sir?  Roll Eyes
2792  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / "I'm Kevin, and I'm full of shit" [a must read!] on: June 21, 2011, 12:24:35 AM
This guy is so full of shit you have to reread it to believe it. In the below quotes of his OP  you can basically see how he first explains the facts of the matter and then goes on to make some wild outrages fantasy driven claims and accusations. Way to contradict yourself in the very same post buddy! Roll Eyes

The thought also occurred to me that there were only about 100 bitcoins worth of buy orders back on the market in the minutes immediately following all of this. I could place a reasonably sized sell order for $0.001, crash the market again, and withdraw probably all of the bitcoins, since they'd be valued at $0.001 each and would fit under the $1000 USD limit. I also decided against this, when I realized that whoever placed the gigantic sell order was probably doing so for the exact same reasons and I knew how that would make me look.

On top of how misleading I felt they were being about what I knew occurred, I felt it was far worse that they were using this argument for why they wanted to undo the trades. From reading their public statements, they're making it sound like they're reverting the trades because they want to prevent a hacker from profiting from it. This is simply not true, the vast majority, if not all of the buy orders that picked up coins at a low price were regular users like myself. Any profit this hacker was going to make, he's already done so. The majority of the buy orders that got executed were standing orders from legit users that had been in the system for quite some time, and those are the orders he's threatening to revert.

WTF? First you say you figured out that the hacker was probably buying low and trying to profit from it, and then you try to argument that the only trades that could have happened were from legitimate users??  Roll Eyes

Recently I've been getting into the bitcoin trading market. Over the last couple of weeks, I was hitting the $1000 USD Dwolla cash withdrawal limit from Mt Gox, so I requested that it be increased. I sent Mt Gox a copy of my driver's license and two utility bills in my name/address to prove my identity, which Mark accepted and increased my limit. Could that have been faked? Sure. But, if I was the hacker I was going about this whole thing stupidly. I had several ways I could have drained the Mt Gox account, and deliberately didn't. I immediately contacted Mark to identify myself as the buyer and offer assistance. If I were up to something shady, I was doing a really bad job at it.

I attempted to withdraw the bitcoin balance into my own wallet, and hit the limit that Mt Gox has, preventing you from withdrawing more than $1000 USD worth of bitcoins (at the current market value) in a day. This transferred 643.27 bitcoins to my personal bitcoin account before hitting that limit. It was pretty well known that the limit for transferring bitcoins was actually broken in Mt Gox. It stopped you from moving more than that in one withdrawal, but you could immediately ask for more and get another $1000 USD worth, over and over. I decided against this, since it was exploiting a bug, and I definitely didn't want to do anything suspicious looking or improper.

The second thing wrong with Mt Gox's statement is that it makes it sound like only the hacker managed to withdraw any money, and even then only $1000 worth. I alone withdrew 643 bitcoins (worth more than $10,000 USD easily). The withdrawal limit feature was so broken, it was hard to imagine the hacker didn't know how to exploit it.


So wait, you requested your account limit to get raised so you were able to withdraw more than $1000 worth, you got your limit raised but that also meant that the withdrawal limit was somehow broken and the hacker withdrew god knows how much? Interesting logic.


Sir, you are full of shit. You are whining about not being able to keep stolen money and you are making it sound as if anyone is forcing you or anyone else to stay at mtgox after it reopens. I suggest you stfu, be glad you didn't get your money stollen, the $3000 you had in there and withdraw and never trade on mtgox again because that's about the only recourse you have in your situation.
2793  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: I'm MtGox, here's my side. on: June 20, 2011, 11:19:20 PM
I believe MagicalTux.
2794  Bitcoin / Press / Re: Bitcoin press hits, notable sources on: June 20, 2011, 08:59:31 PM
Bloomberg news video(almost entirely positive):


Virtual Currency Bitcoin Rises in Usage, Value

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtDUQYUh-vU
2795  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin network is in serious danger - 8.2 petaflop/s by “K Computer” on: June 20, 2011, 08:54:21 PM
I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

DamienBlack was referring to BitcoinWatch numbers, as well.
103716 TeraFLOPS = 103 PetaFLOPS
This is 13 times more than this Japanese computer.

I was just waiting for someone to post that Smiley
2796  Bitcoin / Press / Re: Bitcoin press hits, notable sources on: June 20, 2011, 08:07:13 PM
CNBC news video:


Online Currency Bitcoin Gets Hacked [NBC: 6-20-2011]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCy6mw39nrA
2797  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Who would rather see Mt. Gox completely dissolved? on: June 20, 2011, 07:41:41 PM
To the OP: NO WAY, mtgox after having to deal with all of this crap will come out of this crap way stronger and more secure than ever before. There's just no substitute for real life experience although unpleasant for teaching people lessons on how to sufficiently protect their business and I strongly believe mtgox has learned their lesson.
I wish this would apply to the FDA, the police and every other failing government service. If we can and will hold Mt. Gox liable in the future, so be it. I will agree with you.

You forget that those agencies have government guaranteed jobs and insurances meanwhile mtgox is an independent private company striving for a piece of a very competitive free market in the purest sense possible. As I'm a strong believer in the free market being the harshest regulator there is. I also strongly believe that in the event that I'm wrong and mtgox does not learn from their mistakes, the market will punish them and reward someone else who does.
2798  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Who would rather see Mt. Gox completely dissolved? on: June 20, 2011, 07:27:37 PM
To the OP: NO WAY, mtgox after having to deal with all of this crap will come out of this crap way stronger and more secure than ever before. There's just no substitute for real life experience although unpleasant for teaching people lessons on how to sufficiently protect their business and I strongly believe mtgox has learned their lesson.

I will most likely stay there myself because I like the functionality of their site the most compared to alternatives and I also like how they handled most of this entire fiasco.
2799  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Gavin will visit the CIA on: June 20, 2011, 07:03:54 PM
Ty for the report I didn't doubt you would let us know eventually. But after 4 days I thought you needed a reminder to take 5min and write it up Tongue

I am however a bit surprised that they asked a total of just four questions and that you don't appear to have gotten any impression on whether or not they had a favorable reaction to it?
2800  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: mtgox fraud -- similar story today on finextra in "traditional economy" on: June 20, 2011, 05:43:26 PM
Check out this crap: http://consumerist.com/2011/06/how-hackers-stole-200000-citi-accounts-by-exploiting-basic-browser-vulnerability.html

mtgox was way harder nut to crack if you ask me, and these people handle billions imo
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