I'm not sure I understand how this one works. Could you explain a bit more? |
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2-factor authentication is built in. You can't redeem a coin without also having access to an email address that the coin is registered to. A new owner can immediately change that registration info and protect the coin's value from being swept by someone that previously owned the coin. You might seriously consider discussing this model with legal so that it can be cleared of money transmission issues. If you are holding the value and it is transferred from person to person, there could be some questions raised, being that you are in the US. I am not saying that it is illegal or wrong. It is pretty cool actually, but just a word to the wise... cya with your legal counsel. Even if it is perfectly legal, it is good to have a legal defense fund ready and a lawyer that knows the facts and the law ahead of issues being raised. If nothing else, set aside a portion of profit in a custodial fund for when you get around to this. BTW, this is a nice looking piece, we should talk.  I've dug pretty deep and we're definitely a MSB as long as we accept dollars. It's a fine point of distinction but, We can't really say that we make it easy for people to get started with bitcoins without letting them pay in their currency of choice. We're already planning through the process of registration and compliance. I appreciate your concern and its right on, but that's part of the project. Thanks very much for the compliment. We have 3 more designs on the way soon for the half, quarter and 0.1 bitcoin denominations. Stay tuned. |
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2-factor authentication is built in. You can't redeem a coin without also having access to an email address that the coin is registered to. A new owner can immediately change that registration info and protect the coin's value from being swept by someone that previously owned the coin. Sounds like a lot of work for a physical coin  I don't mean to come off as critical but preferentially I dislike centralized systems. What happens in the case where your business gets shutdown and all information on your servers are inaccessible? At that time no coins could change ownership given that the associated password and email associated with the coins being sold would be static. Is this right? Is there a window of time that the original owner of the coin could change the information of the coin on your servers after the sale of the coin(s) and thus screwing the buyer? Please correct me if I am wrong on any of my comments above as I will not pretend to completely understand your business and security models. I agree with you that decentralized systems are better. This is a closed system so that we can offer cold-storage for people that want it. For people just getting started with bitcoins, the barrier to entry is a knowledge gap as opposed to a lack of trust. We want these coins to attract new members to the bitcoin community and so far it's working GREAT. For those that don't want it, we'll be including the private key with the coin, just like other physical bitcoins. As far as people scamming each other when doing third-party sales, there's not too much we can do to stop that. People will still sell things and then never deliver. For these coins, you can scan the back and immediately see that the coin was redeemed. Nothing can be foolproof, but it does give you an immediate way to say, "wait a minute, you sold me a funded coin and this one says it's already redeemed." Wouldn't that just be the same as looking up the address on the block chain? I get it you are trying to get new users. Preferentially I guess that is why I am against centralized systems because then it allows manipulation to possibly occur in terms of the validity of the data. Right now checking two or more block explorers ensures that the coins are still at the address as opposed to a single site. I forgot to compliment you on the superb artwork. I'm impressed. You're right on the money about decentralized being better. In fact, I've already got guys working on a system that addresses these issues...but its a few months out at least. As ridiculous as it sounds, the difference between sending someone to blockchain.info, vs. having a "friendly" interface deliver the info to them is literally a make or break issue for lots of newbies. Thank you sincerely for the compliment. I was super excited when Lealana coins came out, as I had more litecoins than bitcoins at the time. You did a great job with those, all around. |
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2-factor authentication is built in. You can't redeem a coin without also having access to an email address that the coin is registered to. A new owner can immediately change that registration info and protect the coin's value from being swept by someone that previously owned the coin. Sounds like a lot of work for a physical coin I don't mean to come off as critical but preferentially I dislike centralized systems. What happens in the case where your business gets shutdown and all information on your servers are inaccessible? At that time no coins could change ownership given that the associated password and email associated with the coins being sold would be static. Is this right? Is there a window of time that the original owner of the coin could change the information of the coin on your servers after the sale of the coin(s) and thus screwing the buyer? Please correct me if I am wrong on any of my comments above as I will not pretend to completely understand your business and security models. I agree with you that decentralized systems are better. This is a closed system so that we can offer cold-storage for people that want it. For people just getting started with bitcoins, the barrier to entry is a knowledge gap as opposed to a lack of trust. We want these coins to attract new members to the bitcoin community and so far it's working GREAT. In the case that we have to shut down, we will be emailing out a link to the coin's registered email addresses that allows owners to download the private keys from an encrypted connection. I've run other web companies that use redundant server systems and we're setup so that our system will continue to operate even if we went out of business. For those that don't want to deal with that, we'll be including the private key with the coin, just like other physical bitcoins. As far as people scamming each other when doing third-party sales, there's not too much we can do to stop that. People will still sell things and then never deliver. For these coins, you can scan the back and immediately see that the coin was redeemed. Nothing can be foolproof, but it does give you an immediate way to say, "wait a minute, you sold me a funded coin and this one says it's already redeemed." |
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2-factor authentication is built in. You can't redeem a coin without also having access to an email address that the coin is registered to. A new owner can immediately change that registration info and protect the coin's value from being swept by someone that previously owned the coin. Sounds like a lot of work for a physical coin I've been hearing that from a few people. We will be offering the coins with private key included for those that don't want to mess with it. For most though, they seem to like the peace of mind. |
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Where are you located?
Our office is at 9251 Gordon Ave. in La Habra, California. We obviously don't do any manufacturing or process any precious metals there, though. |
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What are your coins made of?
I couldn't find this information on your site or in your OP.
These are made of a copper-nickel alloy called 230, which is commonly called "Goldine" because it looks like 14k gold. The 5 and 10 bitcoin denominations that we'll be releasing are silver and gold respectively. There are some more details in the specs here: http://www.titanbtc.com/product/titan-one/ |
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2-factor authentication is built in. You can't redeem a coin without also having access to an email address that the coin is registered to. A new owner can immediately change that registration info and protect the coin's value from being swept by someone that previously owned the coin. |
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Mike Caldwell initially gained trust with the community by posting his personal information. Now years later he's well respected and has earned the trust of many. Trust is something that can only be earned with time. That's the real value you are offering behind the physical Bitcoins; being able to trust the creator. Mike was first out of the gate, as such I think any competitor can only be second to his.
Now who are you and why should I trust you don't have all the private addresses stored?
My name is Tim Fillmore and I don't expect you to trust me like we trust Mike. You can't just create trust out of thin air, and if you could it wouldn't be worth anything. These coins were created to wordlessly communicate the elegance and beauty that the bitcoin represents. They are also a bridge to people that don't know what bitcoins really are. I've found that traditional coin collectors are getting as excited about these as are existing bitcoin enthusiasts. That's what its about.  Titan One physical bitcoin, Front I have the utmost respect for those in the community that need time and the verification of other community members before they get on board. No hard feelings at all. In regards to the private keys, we can't really offer cold storage without having control over the transfer of bitcoins. We're totally OK with people who disagree with that decision. For those people, we're about to offer the option to have the private keys included on the coin, underneath the hologram. |
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Just a quick addition: I've gotten a lot of questions from respected members of the community about how we're handling the cold storage and whether we can sell coins with the private keys included. The short answer is that we run offline systems to sign transactions and bring them back to one of our web connected computers to broadcast to the network. Cold storage is a service we're offering for people that don't necessarily know (or want to know) how to do it themselves. And yes, we're about to offer the option to forgo our cold storage service so that you can have your private key included underneath the hologram. However, if you ever resell those coins, the new buyer will get a warning when they scan the barcode telling them what's up. Feel free to PM me if this isn't clear, or you can email me at Tim@titanbtc.com. |
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EDIT: This thread is intended for brainstorming about new ways to do Physical bitcoins. I've started a separate thread for questions about http://www.TitanBtc.com in the Marketplace section. -- Physical bitcoins are absolutely the BEST way to introduce people to the concept of bitcoins. I've personally recruited dozens, if not hundreds, of people to the bitcoin community and by far the most effective tool in winning someone over is simply handing them a physical coin. There's just no replacement for feeling the weight of bitcoin in your hand. However, after years of UI/UX design for web and product launches, I know that there's no such thing as "too simple". People need to be led gently down a path to understanding and the current generation of physical bitcoins isn't quite cutting it. Physical bitcoins, both paper and coin, have the potential to be much more than novelty or collectible. To realize that potential, I'm convinced that this community needs to have physical bitcoins that: 1. Look and feel like real currency 2. Have ZERO barriers to entry for newcomers 3. Require ZERO pre-existing knowledge of bitcoins to acquire, use and enjoy, and 4. Are inherently secure and impossible to counterfeit. (Physical theft is always a danger, but that's a separate conversation.) 5. Seamlessly convert to bitcoins in your wallet with a minimum of technical knowledge required. It's a tall order, but it's an important one to fill. Physical bitcoins serve as a valuable extension to cryptocurrencies and they're a vital bridge to the many people who have yet to embrace the idea of bitcoins. Effectively reaching this group may allow cryptocurrencies to cross the chasm that exists between early adopters and the mainstream user. If you have investments in bitcoin, this jump to the mainstream is what reduces risk and increases the return on your investment. If you believe in the principals behind bitcoin, this jump to the mainstream is what opens people's eyes and brings about real, revolutionary change in our financial system. Doug Feigelson, Mike Caldwell, Rob Kohr and others have shown us what is possible. Thank you sincerely. Let's build on their contributions and move forward. What's next? What does this next generation of physical bitcoins look like and how is it technically executed? I'm looking for feedback from this community and I'm also looking people that are ready to design it and build it as I'm putting my personal/business resources behind this project. |
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Just wanted to report that this update is definitely Usable on our windows7 64-bit machine. Typically we use ubuntu, but I've wanted to try out some watch only copies on windows. While it does seem to hang regularly when closing the program, its been stable enough to test functionality and everything we typically use works great.
Current RAM usage on this version is hovering around 315 Mb, which is at least an order of magnitude improvement. I'll continue troubleshooting to provide more helpful feedback but for now I just wanted to say THANKS for this much needed fix and good luck in your troubleshooting.
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YOU BOUGHT THE BOOKS FROM THE GARAGE DOOR CLOSER!
... no sane person would pay $400+ for text on paper... I have good friends that have paid $10,000+ for binders of business advice from info-marketers like Dan Kennedy. The funny thing about spending a lot for text on paper is that you tend to value the information...a LOT. They would tell you that it was worth it. |
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Are these MLM things you guys are talking about the kind of thing I experienced when I tried job hunting the typical way? If I'm right they're essentially these weird and phony looking marketing companies that aren't necessarily outright scams but certainly they don't operate legitimately. One of them called me back after I applied randomly so I decided to do a background check on them and discovered all kind of shit and more recently I heard a news item on the radio about how they were taking advantage of people like me basically and trying to convince them they were doing legitimate work and were going to get paid.
I guess if I had to describe them properly it wouldn't be a scam I guess you could say the real way it works is like affiliate marketing, the problem is this is clearly that unpopular and everything they're forced to lie about it in order to sucker people in so they claim you can earn cash etc. etc. and in reality what you're doing is door to door sales etc. and trying to convince people to buy whatever product the marketing company has been assigned to sell. The difference between these guys and affiliate marketing is that they're running around outright lying to people about who they are and I'm not entirely sure why they do it really lol, probably because more honest affiliate marketing is all over the place right now.
There are some really nasty ones in the US. (not arguing all MLM schemes are scams, or even scammy -- I even pitched a business idea which used MLM just a few months ago) Not too long ago, I almost interviewed for a scammy charity fundraising MLM (cold calls to raise funds for unknowns [likely people involved] and promising a salary but really giving commission) after sending out a resume to just about everyone I could find. I initially agreed without looking into it much, then was hesitant about driving 40 minutes out, so read up on them. My second response was "Sorry to have taken your time up, but I no longer have interest in an interview after reading more about the company." She didn't even bother trying to defend against it. Thinking about it more, I should probably file a formal report if they're still operating. I'm not sure why peddling is still considered legitimate, anyway. I don't think I've ever had a peddler come to my door and talk honestly. The whole time, I'm trying to get them out and fighting the urge to point out inconsistencies in their story. For example, just a couple weeks ago, a young woman walked in our garage and closed the garage door (thinking it was a doorbell). It turned out she was selling textbooks for children (yes, in 2013). She initially started by saying she was majoring in education and decided to start her own business (going door-to-door out-of-state selling textbooks for a company established over a century ago -- lie #1). I incidentally started preparing lesson plans for our daughter a month ago partly using the new Common Core Standards (set of guidelines and expectations for K-12 students) documentation, so I asked her about it and noted how relatively rigorous the new standards are. She hesitated and made up a story about the books being "compliant" with Common Core standards (lie #2), and how kids are expected to do advanced algebra in 2nd grade (lie #3 & 4 [she obviously isn't majoring in education]). She prattled on a long list of people in the neighborhood who purchased books from her, and happened to note one of our neighbor's kids (who's also a mother, and who we've never spoken to -- we generally don't speak to any of them, and not about anything personal) said we were very active in our daughter's upbringing (lie #5 [don't take that the wrong way]). She had a 6-minute timer she reset at least three times, and kept giving us a bunch of books to thumb through. We're both too polite/cowardly to simply say "we're not interested and get out, lying scum," so we kept half-heartedly going along with this until we ordered $400 in textbooks after seeing they had a return policy. The closest experience I've had to a legitimate peddler was once when a guy replaced our fence and, after finishing, decided to shout, while outside, at my wife about Jesus. He gave her a horribly-written book he himself'd written trying to discredit carbon dating with hilariously stereotypical (and irrelevant) arguments like "scientists want you to think we came from monkeys but that doesnt [sic] sound right to me. Does it sound right to you?!" At least he wasn't trying to sell the book.  YOU BOUGHT THE BOOKS FROM THE GARAGE DOOR CLOSER! Were they any good? Did you return them? MLM fills a void by enabling people to sell who would otherwise not have the initiative to come up with a sales strategy. I have dissuaded many a friend from joining an MLM, but for people that are natural networkers, the model makes a lot of sense. There's unlimited profit to be made by just making "things" a little bit easier for people. MLMs spoon feed the principles of "entrepreneurship" to people. Sometimes it works. |
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Just to address 2112's comments... yes I classify as a "lone wolf" coder when it comes to Armory. That doesn't mean I have never worked with other people or that other people don't like working with me. It means that Bitcoin, and especially Armory is a complicated project, and few people have the right mix of skills, motivation, and free time to get involved in a project like this "for free".
At my previous job, I worked on a team of about 6 devs/engineers developing a massive physics simulation, which was in constant integration with the work of 3-4 teams of similar sizes. The last few of those years, I was in charge of my own little sub-are of the project, with 2-3 coders working both under & parallel to me (I was the task lead while also being a task contributor).
Starting this company and managing 3-4 developers is basically very similar to what I was doing before. And real talent is being brought in, and paid well with good benefits to focus on Bitcoin full time. These are guys that that don't have much knowledge about Bitcoin but are superstar programmers who will have no problem learning about Bitcoin. If I had to limit myself to super-star Bitcoin programmers, I'd have very little choice -- if they're really good, they're probably already employed by another Bitcoin company. Plus this has the benefit of bring more talent into the Bitcoin ecosystem, instead of just redistributing it. I find that awesome developers are literally 5x more valuable than average ones, and I'd rather keep the team small than fill it with mediocrity.
Also, I don't think the "recent graduate" comment applies to me anymore. I worked there for 7 years and had many leadership roles. "Young" -- yes. "Recent graduate", no.
Perfect. This is how bitcoin grows. Bringing fresh rock-star programmers into the community is the best thing possible for bitcoin. I'm doing the same thing wherever I can. BTW, I would be "up a creek" without Armory. Cold storage in offline computers is the backbone of a few of my projects and you helped us get to market much more quickly and cheaply than would have been possible otherwise. Seriously...Thank you. I plan on sending you a nice gift once we're in the black. -T |
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I stand on the side of the highway and scream angrily at the cars as they drive by.
I don't think it's the screaming so much as my soiled tighty whitey underwear that has been holding me back
 They will come around eventually. Thank you for getting out there and spreading the..."word". |
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I have to agree with OP on his points. I've tried to do larger investment deal with BTC and its rare to get any takers. The conclusion though should be that wherever there is pain, there is opportunity. We don't need to apologize for crypto-currency being in its relative infancy. We need to see the opportunities it presents and work to make them a reality.
Those that see opportunities and act on them to make bitcoins more practical (for use as investments or wealth storage or everyday purchasing) are those that will be at the helm of a fundamental shift in the banking industry.
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I wrote a book specifically meant to get people excited about bitcoins and I give away copies to people who are interested.
The physical bitcoin is BY FAR the best way to get people interested though. I recently showed one of my physical bitcoins to a 70+ year old woman, with very little computer/tech knowledge, and she said,
"I don't know what it is, exactly, but I'd like to buy one!"
Never underestimate the power of a shiny object to draw people in. Bitcoins are a bit too complex for the average person to fully understand, but everyone knows instinctively that shiny golden object = good.
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Bitcoin was not ment to be a storage of wealth. Only complete idiot would consider something that requires fucking network of computers,
man made shits that can't survive flood, EMP and so many other real world threats, and require electricity to even run, as solid foundation.
Do you have any idea how the current banking system modern western society works? Yes, it is not working very well. So you understand that we are already completely dependent on a network of computers, the availability of electricity etc. and that floods, EMPs and other real world threats on a level that would threaten the Bitcoin network would already cause devastation to society? And therefore building a protocol on top of this to be used as a currency and using it as a store of wealth is not much further a stretch? Brilliant. I couldn't have said it better myself. Bravo. |
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Building bridges between the government and existing financial systems absolutely does create a more viable currency. You SHOULD care if governments accept bitcoins or not because that will have a direct impact on their value and longevity as a storage of wealth.
Bitcoin was not ment to be a storage of wealth. Only complete idiot would consider something that requires fucking network of computers, man made shits that can't survive flood, EMP and so many other real world threats, and require electricity to even run, as solid foundation. The idea behind Bitcoin was to buy or mine coins and send them to anyone without some 3rd party being able to prevent you in doing so. Bitcoin is about machine controled supply of coins. It is about keeping a decent level of privacy when doing something with your money. It is retards like you, people blinded by opportunity to become rich quick, that are fine with government involvement or whatever. Fuck off!I'm sorry for whatever I said that directed such a torrent of hateful assumptions towards me. You must have really been hurt by people that invaded your privacy or took something that was important to you. I feel your pain, as its happened to me too. I assure you that I'm merely a pragmatist with no "significant" mental deficiencies that I'm aware of. I WILL be honest with you though...Getting rich quick does sound nice. Getting rich slow would be fine too, am I right? Being fine with government involvement is quite different than acknowledging that government involvement is inevitable. We, the torch bearers for this new form of currency, have a choice at the current state of things. We can either: 1.) Play with our toys in the corner with big brother secretly looking over our shoulders with "dark intentions", or we can 2.) Shake hands with the "enemy" out in the open and create cooperation between bitcoin supporters and goverment entities on mutually beneficial terms. I'm simply in favor of the latter, and I don't mind if you disagree with me. |
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