Actually, the title just asks 'Does God judge the nations' - not did he long ago.
And, as far as the breakdown of the family, sure, what I would have in mind is what God intended. And everyone has morals, the question is - how do they square with the Creator (which would be what?).
I did mention Romans 1, which is the NT. And there are other verses in the NT regarding God's judgement on the nations. Revelation is a whole book on the subject, though reserved for a time in the future.
I think we covered this territory and i don't see anything in Romans 1 to indicate what your saying............ Well, Romans 1 does speak of God's judgment, yes? I think you are saying that you don't see the judgement as nation specific - is that what you mean? 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness; 19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, [even] his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse Yes if you look at how things worked in the OT and the transition to the NT. To your point if a nation slides into depravity to where selfishness personal or otherwise rules, if we see a senerio such as a max thunderdome movie the nation will suffer. However i don't see any "nation" that is any more or less subject to that senerio. We have the final judgement, we also have the kind of judgement that's been going on caused by sin which is broadly dispersed thoughout the world. The final days (whenever that may be) will not involve a nation but mankind in general. Nations are used as well as people but the final plan belongs to God not us Romans 1 is not a transition. Paul is stating a principle. This is what happens when folks reject the knowledge of their Creator, true? People reject God not nations. Nations today are just different forms of govt, i can't seem to get that through to you. Jesus said nation will rise up against nation not naming them or saying one is a chosen nation And nations are made up of people, yes? And the nation is affected by the type of people that make it up, yes? Psalm 9 |
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I am not heavily religious. I am secular.I am not sure if a father could die for his son's sins if he purposely raised him to be sinful.Like I said before, I can make an entire thread about why I am secular if you want me to.
I find your threads pretty juvenile, so I'm not really keen on that idea. It just shows how bad the content is here that I actually bother to respond to you. |
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Believing in the Buddha has really led those monks down the path of evil hasnt it? Seriously that may have been the dumbest thing you have ever said. And in the long litany of that has come off your keyboard there is some stiff competition for the award. I suppose you will be the first person to volunteer to put those evil bastards to death.
The evil of believing in the Buddha isn't in the fact of the good living that they proclaim. It is in the fact that they think that anybody can ever be good enough to live forever one way or another. Eternal life isn't something mystical. Rather, it is something ultra-scientific. It is logical. For example, if you could take all the pollution out of our lives, and add only wholesome foods, destroy the inherent degradations in our cells, and think only pure thoughts, we could live for a long time - maybe hundreds of years. The problem is, we don't know what it is like to do this. Buddhism goes in that direction somewhat. The problem with Buddhism is that it doesn't, can't, go far enough, just like Hinduism. While Christianity doesn't go as far as Buddhism and Hinduism in the actual living, practical operations, Christianity goes all the way in preparing people for eternal life. God is ultimately going to destroy this universe because of the evil that has come about in it; God can't stand even the tiniest bit of evil. He is offering us a method in faith in Jesus to gain eternal life in the New Universe He is creating... a Universe that will have no evil in it, no flaws, no capability for potential mistakes, yet freedom, love, and goodness for all who live therein. You are free to make your choice. God might entice you, He might call to you, He slap you around a little, all so that you wake up and join with Him. He is the only way to eternal life. He is doing it for your own good. No matter what you think, history makes it obvious that everyone dies in this life. At least giver yourself a chance. Turn to God.  why dont you tell us the context in which an instruction to kill women and children for a belief in another god is OK? Can you do that or will you do the normal thing and allude to some hidden context in some scripture whereby we are supposed to use our ESP to figure out exactly what you might be referring to? I really dont need a response like...."you clearly ignored the context in Chapter/verse" orthe above ":note that you refuse to consider context". Ive heard you say shit like that now for days without actually ever explaining the context that might make murdering people OK. Tell us the context where killing women and children for a belief is OK and dont simply allude to it. When is it OK for me to put my neighbor to death for believing in another god? Why was it OK for people to do it back then? If context matters so much, why have you not yet shared the context that can make killing others for their beliefs acceptable? This seems to be the thrust of your argument...so fucking make it already!!! I anxiously await a detailed description of the exact context that makes it OK to kill people for their beliefs. I would like to - and thus my questions to you as to what makes somethiing murder. Are you saying humans are more than just another type of animal? Your responses certainly demonstrate that you do think so, regardless of your 'offical position'. |
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If the Bible is true, then they were not innocent.
In fact, none of us according to the Bible. According to the Bible, you and I are responsible for the crucifying of the Son of God.
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I was told by a Rabbi that no man can die for another man's sins. So that is why Jews don't believe Jesus is the Messiah.
That rabbi seems like an idiot. Try thinking about all the exceptions to what he said. Can you name some exceptions in the Jewish religion? I can name examples in life. I can't say I care enough about any religion to worry about trying to justify anything based on the drugged ramblings of bronze age barbarians. I'm arguing from the religious standpoint. I myself am secular. But I was arguing from the Jewish standpoint. I wasn't arguing life examples; only Jewish examples. I personally think that it is weird that God would sacrifice himself to himself to appease his own wrath. First, you are heavily religious, and pretending otherwise is kind of juvenile. Second, you made a straightforward comment you attributed to some unknown rabbi. The comment was blatantly and obviously untrue literally. I said so. The statement itself was neither religious nor secular. |
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A person cannot get any more illogical than that.
If this is indeed an act of the Creator, and since the Creator is the source of all Goodness - it cannot be evil.
We cannot be more righteous than our Creator. So, if anything, the problem is with us.
Nothing more arrogant than us judging our Creator. But, we all do it. Part of our fallen nature.
Thats all fine and well but tell that to the guy who commanded Moses to tell others to kill men, women and children who happened to be born in a place where they worship other gods. Your brainwashing tells you god is good, so you rationalize the shit out of the old testament. I am not brainwashed and can see the OT as the fire and brimstone murdering angry god that is clearly written. it is one thing if you were simply disagreeing - but, your thinking is twisted, given how illogical your answer was. If the Bible is true, the problem is us. Had you said that therefore because you cannot accept the implications of the Bible being true, it is then false, you at least would not have been illogical, right or wrong as you then may be. But, you are a typical example of Romans chapter 1. Note that you refused to consider context, and you also refused to have your position looked at closely also. |
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Actually, the title just asks 'Does God judge the nations' - not did he long ago.
And, as far as the breakdown of the family, sure, what I would have in mind is what God intended. And everyone has morals, the question is - how do they square with the Creator (which would be what?).
I did mention Romans 1, which is the NT. And there are other verses in the NT regarding God's judgement on the nations. Revelation is a whole book on the subject, though reserved for a time in the future.
I think we covered this territory and i don't see anything in Romans 1 to indicate what your saying............ Well, Romans 1 does speak of God's judgment, yes? I think you are saying that you don't see the judgement as nation specific - is that what you mean? 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness; 19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, [even] his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse Yes if you look at how things worked in the OT and the transition to the NT. To your point if a nation slides into depravity to where selfishness personal or otherwise rules, if we see a senerio such as a max thunderdome movie the nation will suffer. However i don't see any "nation" that is any more or less subject to that senerio. We have the final judgement, we also have the kind of judgement that's been going on caused by sin which is broadly dispersed thoughout the world. The final days (whenever that may be) will not involve a nation but mankind in general. Nations are used as well as people but the final plan belongs to God not us Romans 1 is not a transition. Paul is stating a principle. This is what happens when folks reject the knowledge of their Creator, true? |
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A person cannot get any more illogical than that.
If this is indeed an act of the Creator, and since the Creator is the source of all Goodness - it cannot be evil.
We cannot be more righteous than our Creator. So, if anything, the problem is with us.
Nothing more arrogant than us judging our Creator. But, we all do it. Part of our fallen nature.
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I was told by a Rabbi that no man can die for another man's sins. So that is why Jews don't believe Jesus is the Messiah.
That rabbi seems like an idiot. Try thinking about all the exceptions to what he said. Can you name some exceptions in the Jewish religion? I can name examples in life. I can't say I care enough about any religion to worry about trying to justify anything based on the drugged ramblings of bronze age barbarians. |
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I was told by a Rabbi that no man can die for another man's sins. So that is why Jews don't believe Jesus is the Messiah.
That rabbi seems like an idiot. Try thinking about all the exceptions to what he said. |
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He certainly has a way with words. He's also a bit of a douche though and seems willing to compromise good policy formulation for the sake of political posturing. But I guess that is everyone on the hill.
I'm not so sure I would agree with this, but I can't see how he could possibly win a republican primary, so I doubt it matters. I focus mostly on foreign affairs, so his politicking in that area has been my main exposure to him and there he has waged a rather (in my opinion) dishonest campaign which seems largely aimed at winning him political points by bashing Hillary Clinton as soundly as he can, facts be damned. I'm not really a fan of using serious issues for such means. Then again, I would never survive on the hill. |
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btw, now that i think of it, he was on like his third marriage? and milked dry by the previous 2, maybe he was just broke and getting to old to work like a dog .
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So sorry to hear this, he has brought so many fond memories. I cannot accept he committed suicide, it could be drug overdose but I doubt he would ever give up even in this life. Hard to say what my favorite Robin Williams role was. Probably Mrs. Doubtfire. What a huge loss.....
I'd say those early days of Mork and Mindy. But that was a good movie. Patch Adams was good too.My favorite bit by Robin is when he explains how the game of Golf was conceived/developed. It's absolutely "wet your pants funny." Robin was a devout liberal and no doubt supported Obama...twice. It may very well be that the failures of Obama...and consequently the failures of our country contributed to Robin's depression. It's possible. He was good in 'Good Will Hunting' also. |
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Much of said "support" has nothing to do with theological beliefs, but practical concerns of sectarian violence and concerns of political marginalization.
I agree it has always been about political manoeuvring and rivalries. they all see IS as a threat because IS wants to destroy all national borders between them. if the IS caliphate existed the way they want it.. there would be no Syria, No Iraq, No Iraqi kurdistan, no Jordan, no Lebanon, no Palestine and no Isreal. that is why it was called the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) originally. the Levant + Iraq is the fertile crescent which takes in all of those countries. It's true. Shias and Sunnis have been fighting in Iraq for over a decade and Sunnis feel marginalized.But at the same time, it's like making a deal with the devil.I wish Iraq's Sunnis had a better way to help their people rather than rely on those ISIS monsters. That's where a more inclusive government other than Maliki's administration comes into play, and why mover said that Maliki was part of the problem. |
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Item A: It has always been murder in any context to put someone to death for a belief. People may have thought they were correct to do it at the time but their stupidity is irrelevant to the fact it was still murder. I need not demonstrate this fact to any other human alive. I think we all agree that killing someone for a harmless fairy tale belief they were likely born into is murder....but you. Its like this...your beliefs are all wrong , but that is no good reason for me to justify killing you, right? That would be murder, correct? Its the same thing.
Item B: Noah is a fairy tale, but if God did something like it such as breaking the Bosporus peninsula 8000 years ago and flooding the Med valley (which happened and could be the folk lure responsible for this fairy tale), then he murdered people ....and surely not all of them were bad.
Noah is a fairy tale you say - are you saying that what Israel did when it destroyed the nations after crossing the Jordon is not a fairy tale? It has always been murder in any context to put someone to death for a belief.
You are saying it has always been murder, even when folks thought they were correct to do so. You are then saying that there is a moral principle that transcends the human race, that the human race is subject to? I am saying that putting someone to death for a harmless belief should certainly always be considered murder. And your objection to discussing Noah and the flood is that he is a fairy tale you say - are you saying that what Israel did when it destroyed the nations after crossing the Jordon is not a fairy tale, since you did not object to discussing that? How hard is it for you to understand that I feel the bible is a book of folk lure..with perhaps some vague truths and other long forgotten lure and some just plain fairy tales. I really dont give a shit about parsing which is which in the entire book. It is most likely that none of it is pure historical truth. We cant even agree on how things happened last year when we have it on video, so the odds of a 2000 year old book translated in dozens of languages being "truth" is pretty much zero. So, not answering the question regarding what God did during the flood in Noah's time because it is a 'fable' is just a dodge. Thought so. |
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Much of said "support" has nothing to do with theological beliefs, but practical concerns of sectarian violence and concerns of political marginalization.
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If you vote Libertarian then you're throwing away your vote. In other words, if you vote Libertarian then you don't care about the election results.
Voting isn't about choosing the perfect candidate. Its about doing everything you can to help your country. In this country the GOP is the only decent option.
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It still doesn't excuse the formation of ISIS. They're too radical regardless of how Sunnis feel excluded.
He wasn't explaining the formation of the ISIS. He was explaining why Iraqi Sunnis would rebel against the central Iraqi government which creates a space for ISIS to operate in. |
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The religious argument goes in here. I want to keep a balance of Shia and Sunni control so that Sunni insurgents do not overthrow Shia States and then turn to attacking Israel and the U.S.
So you want to perpetuate endless sectarian fighting so that Israel is never targeted? Or how exactly would that work to protect israel and the US? |
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Actually, the title just asks 'Does God judge the nations' - not did he long ago.
And, as far as the breakdown of the family, sure, what I would have in mind is what God intended. And everyone has morals, the question is - how do they square with the Creator (which would be what?).
I did mention Romans 1, which is the NT. And there are other verses in the NT regarding God's judgement on the nations. Revelation is a whole book on the subject, though reserved for a time in the future.
I think we covered this territory and i don't see anything in Romans 1 to indicate what your saying............ Well, Romans 1 does speak of God's judgment, yes? I think you are saying that you don't see the judgement as nation specific - is that what you mean? 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness; 19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, [even] his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse |
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