Sorry no one provided a convincing argument as to why Bitcoin won't become a regulated fiat proxy.
Franky1 gave convincing arguments on how Bitcoin can remain deregulated, but that's not the same thing. Where? I didn't see any. "can" requires a realistic pathway. If you mean "could in theory" then yes Bitcoin could remain decentralized if no pressures are ever applied. We are debating whether the pressures will be sufficient to derail Bitcoin's decentralization. Europe has been beaten down by centuries of wars. SE Asians have suffered such wars even longer. America has had little in the way of total war on its shores. Americans are restless to fight so much so that most of their entertainment is about violence. It's more likely they will get what they seem to want. But that is their choice.
There isn't one America. It was the economic prosperity that kept us united and occupied, other than the Civil war. There will be fracturing into different cultures. Some want to fight for racial injustice. Some want to fight for Constitutional injustice. Some want to fight for their right to own guns. Some want to fight for and against religious issues (abortion, etc). Some want to fight for gay marriage. Some want to fight... America has always been a melting pot. That worked when everyone has individual responsibility. Now you have the government as the referee, so the pent up frustration is great. But also note that most of the aggression of the USA is from the government and negros (and Latinos), not the people (and certainly not the white people). The USA government is a head of the globalist empire. And they intend to enslave all people, not just Americans. I really don't think the rest of the world will follow America into fascism. Been there. Done that.
I think I mostly agree with that. But don't expect the filipinos to not apply the USA fascism to you. They could throw you under the bus when America says jump, they might say "how high". The Philippines will likely (they have been thus far) follow USA edicts because they are so dependent. And I would not agree if you asserted that there won't be war in SE Asia. And I would not agree if you asserted that economic hardship won't return to the Philippines, kidnappings, and that you might not be forced to leave for your safety or comfort. Also don't rule out ISIS coming to the Philippines especially as the economy goes to shit. Europe has been repeating the totalitarian debacles, so they could repeat it again. But at least one thing is different. Their population is old. And they have no guns. So I rather see some combination of Russia, ISIS, and European Commission enslaving Europe in the regulation outcome. In short, no westerner, Chinese, nor Japanese will escape regulation. The brown skin countries will go into a bit of chaos, especially Latin America. |
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There's no doubt about it, all countries have been and are being shafted by the banks.
I am big believer in personal responsibility. The people borrowed and accepted government spending. The people are complicit. Where 99% of people are asleep is that there is no debt, because the banks never lent us anything anyway - because they don't have anything lend - and it's all about book-keeping entries and the ability to maintain a lie.
It is not that simplistic. The debt now represents actual investments and labor as the debt money has gone through the economy. You can't just unwind that without picking winners and losers thus stealing from some and redistributing to others. The notion that debt can be canceled is a fallacy. It always has to be paid down by someone. |
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Their culture has never been defeated.
I often cited The Starfish and The Spider and I have Cherokee ancestry too, so please don't assume I don't understand the decentralization model. In fact, I've adopted it in my personal life to some extent. Just like a filipino, I don't let anything phase me. Move on. 50 times per day. Ah this girl snubs me, okay talk to the one standing beside her, bounce to the one at the next door, ah wait I am hungry turn around there is food, 15 pesos I am busog...whats next..."depende sa hangin" meaning I do next depending on the wind. But work is different. What I mean is filipino culture has no impact on the outcome of the global smashup ahead. They are bystanders. They will lose their overseas employment when the global economy turns down. They were years ago a net importer of rice, not sure now. They can always survive, as they can survive on bananas and roots if necessary. Although I am not sure about that. I've seen filipinas who got very weak and sickly from just trying to survive on that diet. I remember there were famines in Indonesia. Their culture can help them survive but it won't help you survive. They will leave you under the bus when they can't use you any more. When the shit comes down, you are foreigner, you need a visa to stay there, and besides you can't survive like they do. I tried it and I lost 20 kilos. It was hell. I had dysentery and amoeba every week. Had Typhoid fever, Dengue, etc.. I could probably do it now, because I am so adjusted (I often eat only carrots all day any way because of my illness). But I'd prefer not to. The outcome in the major western nations, China, and Japan will seal Bitcoin's fate. You'd have to be blind to not see they are all ripe for regulating Bitcoin and the populations are going along fine with the AML terrorist false flag shit. The western populations, China, Japan, are concerned about political corruption, not about AML compliance. Sorry no one provided a convincing argument as to why Bitcoin won't become a regulated fiat proxy. I understand some Europeans are smug. I see that often. They really think they are superior. They even debate with that smug, nonchalant, arrogant attitude ("you didn't say anything"). When I debate them in person, they criticize me arrogantly behind my back. But the reality is they are screwed economically and they are falling right in queue on regulation. Note I also know some younger Europeans that understand what is going on and I relate very well to them. Every European I've met here in the Philippines (ab)uses the European social system. And they believe it is correct. I've also met many Americans who live over here on disability, again abusing the social system. I should be declared disabled due to my blindness in one eye and very poor eyesight in the other. But I am not about to abuse the social system because of my stupid decision in 1999. I don't use health insurance, not even PhilHealth. I couldn't use the social system to pay for something that is my personal responsibility. |
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Ahahaaa.... What I get from that is that France can fuck their way to prosperity.
That explains why I am in the Philippines! I have southern French ancestry (and German and Welsh). |
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Look your economies are going to implode. And the retirees are going to support the government to find taxes where ever they can.
Hey I am European, no problems over here.
Oh no? You've got three these albatrosses round your neck, Italy, Greece and Spain.... Cyprus, Ireland, UK, France, Germany etc.........Hey Germany was in recesssion until the formation of the Euro which was a currency war against the PIIGS, allowing Germany to devalue their manufacturing so they could undercut the PIIGS manufacturing and steal. Europe's banks are leveraged on the order of 50-to-1, much much higher than the USA banks were before they were recapitalized in 2008. Are you ready for the Portabello? So now you are married to the coming implosion. One for all, All for one. Isn't it bloody amicable brings tears to my armpits. Ciao.  |
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Look your economies are going to implode. And the retirees are going to support the government to find taxes where ever they can.
Hey I am European, no problems over here.
Oh no? You've got three these albatrosses round your neck, Italy, Greece and Spain.... Cyprus, Ireland, UK, France, Germany etc.........And when did the Euro turn down recently? You ignore Armstrong's model at your peril. I should keep an eye out for the possibility that Europe could bounce until 2014.675. I need to search for facts that can tell me how long this bounce is likely to last. I don't want to be too early again, as I was on China last July 2012.
As I've been expecting, looks like we will get that a deadcat bounce in capital fleeing Europe and developing markets into the USA, which may put a temporarily top on the USA equities. Safe haven bond yields in Europe are increasing (exodus from safe havens) and US Treasury yields are declining (from recent dramatic rise) which is a combination of capital coming out of USA equities taking a breather, capital coming out of safe haven European bonds, and lower PPI placing doubt on Fed's Sept. taper.
...
Remember on Exter's Inverted Pyramid, that US federal reserve notes are at the bottom just above gold. Patience goldbugs, patience...
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Oblivious shares mean that the block contents are not disclosed to the hasher. The hasher may be working on a malicious branch of the chain without even knowing about it. They may even be crushing start-up alt-coins, or embeding prayers in the block-chain. I believe oblivious shares can be implemented using a public hash of the block data. The secret can be independent of the compilation of the contents of the block. As I understand it, the secret can be an arbitrary length: that is the whole point of a hash function. With oblivious shares, block manipulations possible with getblocktemplate are impossible: since a hashed header implies a read-only block. Wait I will dig up the math to be sure. I will go eat first outside, reply when I return. It took so long to get back to this. The SecretSeed does not depend on the contents of the block[1]. Thus I don't see how it is incompatible with any modifications to the contents of the block. [1] http://arxiv.org/pdf/1112.4980.pdf#page=29 |
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Hey I am European, no problems over here.
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But there is no point in answering that 2 "questions", because the assumption behind this 2 "question" is, that EU-countries have to give up there social model, if they do not agree to some imaginary edict and that doesn't make any sense at all.
Thanks for proving that in your case I am correct about the European psychosis. You think that you can have an unsustainable tax and redistribute economic model and not have to confiscate the wealth. Duh. And therefor you assume implicitly that a non-compliant Bitcoin won't be used to hide wealth. Look your economies are going to implode. And the retirees are going to support the government to find taxes where ever they can. |
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Okay cbeast we get your point. You think I am a delusional maniac in the mold of Alex Jones Massacre.
Perhaps you can try to refute my point about Europe.
I didn't come to the Philippines to get all stressed about Western culture and ideologies. Do you not realize that you are surrounded by the most unique culture and people in the world? If you want to think about something deep, ask yourself why Filipinos are so sought after as workers worldwide. Hint: it's not just because they work cheap. If you want to make a difference in the world, talk to them about Bitcoin. You will be surprised at their understanding and the unique position they are in to benefit from Bitcoin on a global scale. Filipinos don't plan and don't care about the future. They live for the moment. They make great entertainers and perform well in any social work. But don't ask them to do silent engineering (the non-Chinese ones). This is rare. They are just a pawn of the powers such as the USA, China, and Japan. Any way, I think this discussion have been taken far off topic. And this is not useful to me. We need to stop this. I don't want to spend my time on irrelevant topics. |
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turvarya,
You do realize that decentralization and the European social model (tax and redistribute) are incongruent?
A decentralized currency(!) and the European social model are not incongruent? There are not just this two extrems: Either everything is decentralized or everything is centralized. There is also not just that outcome, that Bitcoin succeed and every fiat disappears or Bitcoin disappears. If your imagination is just limited to think of 2 possibilities, than I finally understand, what your big problem is. You realize you didn't answer the second and third question. Are Europeans going to rail against AML laws that aim to prevent tax evasion so they can avoid AML compliance for Bitcoin? If yes, the tax evaders can just route everything through Bitcoin. I am glad you are disagreeing with everyone who thinks Bitcoin will be a really big and dominating phenomenon. So your argument is Bitcoin is irrelevant. Okay. Readers Europeans do tie themselves in logical knots when it comes to their social model. They think they can have that and have some idealistic concepts about "freedom" or rational "decentralization" or some other conflicted psychosis. |
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Okay cbeast we get your point. You think I am a delusional maniac in the mold of Alex Jones Massacre.
Perhaps you can try to refute my point about Europe.
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turvarya, You do realize that decentralization and the European social model (tax and redistribute) are incongruent? Do you think the mainstream will give up their beloved social model to prevent an edict to use only approved AML compliant Bitcoin service providers? They will choose to destroy their tax collections?  Even Switzerland voted 74% against a 20% gold backed money in a referendum this week. The EU demographics are old and old people want their government guaranteed retirements. |
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I still have no idea, what are talking about, when you say "turvarya, are you not aware of all the seizures of cash and gold of Europeans crossing borders?". There are limits of how many cash your are allowed to bring over a border. If you bring more, it get seized.
Oh I see that seizure of money and capital controls are not evidence of USA style authoritarianism which you claimed doesn't exist in your nirvana. Do make one thing clear: I am not generally against governments enforcing laws. Also when it comes to people who want to avoid paying taxes. There is nothing "USA style authoritarianism" about that. I was asking for examples, where someone with some common sense of law, would say it was not ok, to seize that money. You are raffling random stuff...
Information is noise to those who can't do addition or who are willfully vested in ignoring information. You pretend to be dumb. You didn't provide any information to my questions. So there is nothing to ignore, it is just not there. So there is your answer. You think tax and spend (at 60% of GDP) is sustainable. You think capital controls are freedom. So you embrace an authoritarian megadeath outcome. I know you don't realize it always results in that outcome, and that is because you are European and you guys repeat the same outcome over and over throughout history. The American situation is very "in your face" obvious because there is a still a lot of resistance to the concept (even though many people like the government handouts, they still believe they should have freedom too). In Europe there is no conceptual resistance. They believe in giving up freedoms in order to have a better collective order. So the outcome will be as easy as a hot knife through warm butter over there. I doubt you all be able to put up any resistance to the European Commission edicts which are in the back pocket of the USA. Or if you do finally put up a resistance, that is when you will see the boots come out. But it won't take much as nobody owns a gun over there. You will be pushing on barricades, throwing stones and lighting fires as they do in Greece and Spain, but still the edicts are made. The easiest way is to fool you into believing you won. Get you all to join Bitcoin with compliance on identification for taxation. So then you feel you won, even though you lost. |
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I broadly agree that all gov's are power crazed organisations and truly capable of the most dangerous of actions.
However, if the USA were to close the internet backbones, it would leave them without the ability to snoop and spy on the rest of the planet and thus be isolated. They are then, in effect, in a similar same catch 22 situation as those they would seek to control.
Astute point. I agree the powers-that-be will prefer compliance, but in the absence of compliance they can use war. By definition, non-compliance means they also lose their ability to snoop. Agreed! In fact, Zbigniew Brzezinski has said "Populist Awakening" is possibly derailing the move towards a new world order controlled by the technocrats and elite. However, you would be very naive to think that the global elite didn't anticipate this and didn't already have a plan of action. Brzezinski has hinted at their plan (which is obvious to me). Key on this phrase, "it is easier to kill a million". Another option is blocking non-compliant traffic on the backbones. Thus they can force compliance domestically because the mainstream economy doesn't want to be impacted by the rogue cowboys and will agree to weed them out. One of the impetus for making a better Tor now is to make is popular asap, so that it is more difficult to filter it without impacting the mainstream. But we may already be too late. Generally speaking the masses are against the political corruption, not against an identification card and showing it when asked. So the powers-that-be only need to vilify some figure heads and get the masses focused on that, while getting them to join Bitcoin via Paypal or some other compliant service provider. Again the rogue cowboys will be shut off from the mainstream as usual. For those nations that decide to go rogue en mass, the powers-that-be can turn their country into a chaotic shit hole with war. And they can even in some cases get that country to fight itself, e.g. Ukraine. There are deep divisions in the USA so it won't be difficult to get the USA to fight itself as the economy turns down hard. The HUGE burden of finding resources to carry out all this monitoring and enforcement shouldn't be underestimated as they'd be confronting people by the millions (billions?).
The black budget of stolen funds is on the order of $5+ trillion, which Donald Rumsfeld admitting on TV the day before 9/11 (then all the records were destroyed at the Pentagon the next day). The DEEP STATE is already in possession of this money. Besides they will charge the costs to public, by confiscating (ahem taxing) wealth, including Bitcoins. And they earn money by selling weapons and giving loans to both sides of any conflict.  |
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France doesn't have a nuclear deterrence force, it has a nuclear defense force. Obviously they won't start a war with Russia, but they can and would escalate it. Save the NWO stuff for Alex Jones.
This time it isn't a joke. You guys have no idea how your world is going to turn upside down over the next several years. I hope you realize Russia's economy is threatened by the collapsing oil prices and global downturn. The only way Putin can maintain his 80% public approval rating is to keep escalating. And the powers-that-be are happy to oblige this. Europe also needs a war when their economies implode (coming soon). |
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You can get rid of your US-citizenship if you want to. Many people already did.
Yes of course I know that. And I know ways of obtaining a new citizenship that doesn't require I spend much money too. Does that warrant cluttering this thread with a post? I realize you are trying to make some silly claim that because I haven't done it yet, then I am not serious about doing it. And you are incorrect. |
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The bitcoins I bought are worth more today, so your assumption that I lost money is just wrong, like most of your assumption.
Oh I see, you are "buy and hold religiously and ignore any new information". That is a classic gold bug mentality also. I still have no idea, what are talking about, when you say "turvarya, are you not aware of all the seizures of cash and gold of Europeans crossing borders?". There are limits of how many cash your are allowed to bring over a border. If you bring more, it get seized.
Oh I see that seizure of money and capital controls are not evidence of USA style authoritarianism which you claimed doesn't exist in your nirvana. You are raffling random stuff...
Information is noise to those who can't do addition or who are willfully vested in ignoring information. You pretend to be dumb. |
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Um. France has nukes too.
What could be better to torment the world into begging for a new world order to restore peace, than to have regional nuclear war. Remember Putin keeps making the point that whatever the USA did in the past, he can do, e.g. Kosovo and Putin Crimea. When the shit really gets hot, nobody is going to care about who owns the internet cables in the ocean, only that they've been selectively rendered inoperable. Remember the powers-that-be, "whether by peaceful compliance or conflict, we will have a new world order". |
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You just showed pretty well, what a arrogant US-American you are.
What is "the last time your socialism peaked and collapsed into hell" even supposed to mean? I mean seriously, US-education on history isn't really known for being accurate about things that happened outside of US.
But sure, believe that your country is all-powerfull and can force whatever they want on everybody, because your country is doing so damn well.
I guess you weren't alive during World War 2. I don't wish my country can enforce its edicts you European cry baby. I want to get rid of my USA citizenship. I am just looking at reality. The reality is none of you own a gun and so Putin could have his tanks in France within 15 days if the USA doesn't try to stop him. And guess what? We are not going to stop him. We will pretend we have budget problems, even though Obama sees no problem with running $1 trillion deficit spending on the socialism. You will get an education soon about reality of the outcome of your safety nets. |
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