Question is: How are we going to get value *into* the bitcoin economy without the aid of banks? Ripple? Sweat equity. No. Assuming I reward my employees/contractors for their work with bitcoins. How will *I* obtain those coins? At some point someone needs to purchase coins from someone else. Provide something that bitcoin owners desire. |
|
|
|
Why wouldn't you withdraw all your coins from a failed exchange as soon as you got the chance? You snooze, you lose...
Because it was otherwise decent exchange and I wanted to support them and give them some time to make things right. |
|
|
|
Sure that would be a major jump but it would only take you so far. I think what might happen is that power rates where there is excessive mining will increase. The network growth will switch to a sustainable level because of economics or regulation or maybe even wars.
How ? Why ? - Economics : ASICs producer have (at least) a constant production rate. And probably growing. Most of their costs are "NRE" (the first chip may cost something like one million dollar, but the next millions ones cost only pennies each). So they will not stop producing them until people stop buying them. Plus they can lower their price with time down to their marginal cost of production. In the end they will cost almost nothing and people will use them to heat their apartments. - Regulation : please explain what kind of regulation could limit the network hashrate - Wars : ... The network is growing an exponential rate largely due to huge advances by moving to ASICs. Producing more of the same ASICs will allow for more of a linear growth rate which could be sustained for a long period of time. You don't get the same exponential jump in ability without a new technology. That could happen, but it is unlikely to happen in the near future. The current ASIC companies are living high on the hog even demanding and getting pre-payment. Most of those companies won't even have the ability to cost reduce down to the marginal cost of production. Additionally why would they? What manufacture sells goods without a reasonable profit? So that would probably be another short term limiting factor. Plus if everyone started using these miners it would have a massive impact on power consumption and probably result in higher power costs, which people wouldn't like. The amazing thing to me is the extreme growth rate isn't good for anyone but the suppliers right now. Yet so many don't seem to accept that it can't continue with such an extreme growth rate. It is common for extreme growth to flatten out to sustainable levels. The same will happen the bitcoin network. When it does it will be a good thing for everyone except the suppliers. But at least they got the rapid money up front.
The "sustainable" level of the Bitcoin network is when the cost of electricity burnt is equal to the price of the newly mined bitcoins. It has happened in the CPU/GPU era. It will happen in the ASIC era. That is only true from the standpoint of a current miner. What will happen if the network keeps growing at the insane rate it is, there will be increased power costs and/or regulation to stop it. It isn't reasonable to think that is would be allowed to grow to 10% or more of the world's electrical power. Do you think people will be willing to live with vastly higher power bills and rolling blacks outs to support bitcoin mining? In the CPU/GPU era you weren't using nearly as much power as in being used today. What is more likely is that the cost of entry will get so high that it will block most from mining at least bitcoin. If the cost of power is truly what limits bitcoin, then bitcoin actually won't have much of a future. Most businesses run with as high as profit margins as they can. The micro-economics don't work the same on the marco scale and the bitcoin network is way past the micro side. I am looking forward to this time of BTC crowfunded fusion nuclear plants.  |
|
|
|
Do you remember Alpha Centauri? Resources exist to be consumed. And consumed they will be, if not by this generation then by some future. By what right does this forgotten future seek to deny us our birthright? None I say! Let us take what is ours, chew and eat our fill.
--- CEO Nwabudike Morgan "The Ethics of Greed"
Our first challenge is to create an entire economic infrastructure, from top to bottom, out of whole cloth. No gradual evolution from previous economic systems is possible, because there is no previous economic system. Each interdependent piece must be materialized simultaneously and in perfect working order; otherwise the system will crash out before it ever gets off the ground.
--- CEO Nwabudike Morgan, "The Centauri Monopoly"
And when at last it is time for the transition from megacorporation to planetary government, from entrepreneur to emperor, it is then that the true genius of our strategy shall become apparent, for energy is the lifeblood of this society and when the chips are down he who controls the energy supply controls Planet. In former times the energy monopoly was called "The Power Company"; we intend to give this name an entirely new meaning.
--- CEO Nwabudike Morgan "The Centauri Monopoly" |
|
|
|
|
Has anyone got their bitcoins (not fiat) in the last 3 months?
I aked for BTC withdrawal twice. First time in April 2013 (this worked) and second time in November 2013 (this didn't work, corresponding ticket from December is yet unanswered).
|
|
|
|
|
I shall say that I have similar problem. After Bitcoin-24 closure (and after some time to consolidate things) it was possible to withdraw bitcoins (but not the fiat). Withdraws were done (after logging and after request) manually. I have successfully withdrawn some of my BTC balance (not all of it) in April 2013. Basically I got email with code which I entered on site. It worked, I got my bitcoins.
But... I left some balance there unwithdrawn. When I asked for another withdrawal in November 2013, process was the same. Email with code, entering the code, reduction of balance, but nothing arrived this time. I expected this to take some time. They are dealing with fiat issues after all. After a month, in December, I opened a ticked because nothing arrived. (I can still log on, but the BTC balance is reduced.) Today I opened another ticket as the first one is yet unanswered.
|
|
|
|
|
I have read both of your posts. You are telling many wise and true things. But those are very unpleasant truths which (very aggressively) attack ego and illusion of self-importance and superiority of ordinary (average or sub-average) person. Not many people will listen to you. But I think you know all of that...
With great power comes great responsibility ability to influence things.
|
|
|
|
I don't know but I remember reading somewhere that if Bitcoins are obtained illegally, the bitcoin devs can disable those coins, is this true? At least the hacker wouldn't win anything with this. Anyways good luck friend. Apparently there is no justice in Bitcoin  Every hacker/scammer always runs away with their Bitcoins and they are never punished! That is wrong and I shall add fortunately. Devs can not disable or return the coins. This is one of the foundations of bitcoin and one of the reasons of its success. If there is a change that will allow devs (or government or law enforcements or mafia or public vote or whatever) to to this, I will migrate to the coin which supports "strong property" and many will do likewise. Although I sympathize with the OP, Bitcoins are build on the principle: Whoever owns the privkey, owns associated bitcoin balance. This is very important principle. Your only chance is to find the thief and force HIM (or HER or they) to transfer bitcoins back. No one can do this on behalf on him. In ideal case (thief is known and proofs are clear) police and law should help you to convince him. There are cases scammers were punished. |
|
|
|
And the price gap in % of price?  This is what I had in mind. |
|
|
|
mate i think you should go fuck yourself if im honest.
why would anyone deal with you if you exploit/scam/hack sites?
greed? profit? |
|
|
|
Also, you might want to sell bitcoins (buy them cheap elsewhere, sell on MtGox, make profit) and wait for several months. Some people do not mind the long wait.
Have you been listening at all? You can't get your money out of gox. They will likely be out of business before they send any international wires. You wanna risk it? There are some people who have problems getting money from gox. Maybe it is the majority, maybe strong majority. But definitelly not all of them. I do not think gox will get out of business. And no, I do not want to risk it. But someone does. If people were risking it the price difference between gox and bitstamp wouldn't be growing by the day. Gox has jumped $60 in the last day or so, bitstamp $30. This is not indicative of arbing. This is indicitative of people getting their money trapped in gox. True. The price gap used to be around $100, and is now $170. And the price gap in % of price? |
|
|
|
|
Also if the address 1H4esgi6KwhDtVXZXJ12AS7QEwdeQighn4 is compromised (or the wallet.dat containing this address) you should reroute regular 0.03 BTC payments (are these mining profits?) this address is receiving somewhere else.
|
|
|
|
Also, you might want to sell bitcoins (buy them cheap elsewhere, sell on MtGox, make profit) and wait for several months. Some people do not mind the long wait.
Have you been listening at all? You can't get your money out of gox. They will likely be out of business before they send any international wires. You wanna risk it? There are some people who have problems getting money from gox. Maybe it is the majority, maybe strong majority. But definitelly not all of them. I do not think gox will get out of business. And no, I do not want to risk it. But someone does. |
|
|
|
|
Also, you might want to sell bitcoins (buy them cheap elsewhere, sell on MtGox, make profit) and wait for several months. Some people do not mind the long wait.
|
|
|
|
Are you really getting an ROI
Mining is a crap shoot, very bimodal. Either you win or lose money. If you do it well, persistently, you come out ahead. Is it worth it? Depends on how desperate you are for more coins, I guess. I'm pretty desperate. My day job only pays 300k/an, and I already took out a home loan and a business loan, so to get more coins, I must mine. Your day job is 300k/an. An = annually? Is that in Lira? Pesos? Hungarian Floret?  When you save you "must" mine, I say you "must" get a better financial planner.  Here is something for some comparison :-) http://www.globalrichlist.com/ |
|
|
|
Thanks everyone for the advice. I'll definitely check out both, in the meantime I'll use the video cards occasionally.
sorry to be a killjoy for you, but occasional mining at 80-100MH/s X 300watts isn't doing you, or the network, or the environment, any favours at todays hashrate. Yeah, we'll be going the usb route, I'm thinking 2 ant miners and 2 erupters (for starters) in the next week or two and hopefully work our way up a bit more as we go, and just occasionally use the gpus for a little boost from time to time. Yes. The fun part is very important. After all, 80-100MH/s X 300watts isn't doing you, or the network, or the environment, any harm either. :-) |
|
|
|
If that's the case, then your basically saying someone with say 1Th (or any hash be it higher or lower) after a good long while will earn 0 which is not true, since everyone, regardless of the pool your in and regardless of your hash rate still earns something. No. Mudbankkeith is saying nothing like that. You're only denying your own statement. :-) Yes, everyone still earns something. And as the time still hasn't reached infinity ;-) , there's still some reward for everybody with some (non-zero) hash rate. But the reward can drop below value which is usable for withdrawals. One can for example make 0.00001 BTC per day on average. This is still "some" reward", but you will get minimal 0.01 BTC payment after 3 years. You can also hit reward rate such as 1 Satoshi per day, per week, per month.... |
|
|
|
The Logistic S-Curve The logistic function F(x) = 1 / (1 + e -x) was developed to model the growth of a population that multiplies until constrained by exhausted resources. It has the property of exponential growth to the midpoint, followed by exponentially slowing growth. In my application of the model, the population consists of all speculators who will ever buy bitcoins. That population grows as bitcoin knowledge spreads to new speculators, and that population is eventually limited by the finite number of available speculators. The price series of bitcoin is subject to bubbles and crashes that are ignored by the model, rather the model addresses the price trend. The S Curve is plotted on my chart using a logarithmic price axis, and thus does not directly resemble the Sigmoid graph above. check, http://b-gat.es/1cnazWY Well. This might be true for credit-driven debt-based cyclic economy. Nevertheless Bitcoin is (among other things) deflatory currency. This video is interesting, but basically promotes classical economic view, "important role" of central bank and government, necessity of robbery forced wealth redistribution, etc. |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
