How hard would it be to perform a 51% attack on a pure POS coin?
I hear people say "it is allmost impossible since you need to own 51% of the coins" but is that really the case?
Isn't it that one should own 51% of the current available coin age at any given time?
Lets say we have a coin with these parameters:
Total coins: 100 000 000 (virtually all in circulation)
Min coin age for staking: 24hr
Max coin age: no upper limit
Now, how much of these coins are elegible for staking and in wallets that is up and running at any given time?
I have no numbers but lets estimate 20%.
What would the avarage coin age be for these coins at any given time? Estimate 3 days
That gives a total staking-power (coin age * coins) at any given time of 60 000 000
If i transfer 1 000 000 coins and leave them in my wallet offline for 123 days then i will have 51% of the total staking power hence make it possible for me to perform a 51% attack.
As i said, i don't have any real numbers just estimates and they could be way wrong but if the coin doesn't have any coinage upper limit i think this is a real risk...
hmm ok you have 51% of power what now ? you will lose that power after next POS block... Block need 10 confirmations... so you need 10 blocks in row to get confirmed double sped ext... There are also other parameters like weights all is not that simple like you describe. In POW you own network all time long with 51% hash power... In Pos with coinage you lose that power in next block i don't think is so big deal. |
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First post has been updated with second attack, actually tested on Mintcoin.
rat4 i am impressed.To be honest i am not programmer but i see that you know what you are are doing. I have checked those blocks and i can confirm that your test attack is successful. just use: mintcoin-explorer.info "no PoS blocks from 203231 up to 203441, more than 1 hour of real time" and check those POW only blocks. And it looks like that is no longer true, for now: As you can see here, the PoW blocks have a different and independent difficulty algorithm than PoS blocks. If you start getting a lot of PoS blocks in a row, the chance of PoW block generation increases in order to achieve the PoW target; so after each PoS block is generated the likely-hood of generating a PoW block as the next block goes up, and after every PoW block, the chance of generating a PoS block goes up. They are both integrated with block targets and difficulties that are independent of one another; ]so one cannot perpetually overpower the other.This is why PoS/PoW hybrid is more secure vs just PoS only. And, it is also worth noting that over time, the Mintcoin networks actually will get more secure with age, whereas a PoW only coin has the potential to get less secure due to centralized mining processes. Mintcoin is protected from PoW overpowering, as well as PoS overpowering. You cannot know for certain the future of the Mintcion blockchain (at least very far). With Pure PoS, you know the future will always be a PoS block next, and with PoW you know that the future will always be PoW blocks next, but you cannot know the future with hybrid PoW/PoS like Mintcoin. And Mintcoin is open for double spend attack according to Wiki... https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Double-spending |
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Yes try cgminer 3.7.2. Or find version with those missing files |
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Hi, about a week ago, I had some help via a couple (JamesR1 and XbladeX) of members here with some issues I was having setting up my config files. I know that this will probable seem very simple to most of you, but I am having a nightmare getting my head around it. With BlackFriday looming around the corner, I would like to get myself up and running if possible. Original enquiry: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=469640.msg5896117#msg5896117I have entered my BC Address via My Miner over at Blackcoin Pool.com Here is my sgminer.conf file text: {
"pools" : [
{
"url" : "stratum+tcp://blackcoinpool.com:3333",
"user" : "MyBCAddress",
"pass" : "xxxxxxxxxxx"
}
]
,
"intensity" : "13",
"worksize" : "256",
"kernel" : "ckolivas",
"lookup-gap" : "2",
"thread-concurrency" : "24000",
"shaders" : "0",
"gpu-threads" : "1",
"gpu-engine" : "900",
"gpu-fan" : "30-90",
"gpu-memclock" : "1200",
"gpu-memdiff" : "0",
"gpu-powertune" : "0",
"gpu-vddc" : "0.000",
"temp-cutoff" : "95",
"temp-overheat" : "85",
"temp-target" : "75",
"api-mcast-port" : "4028",
"api-port" : "4028",
"auto-fan" : true,
"expiry" : "10",
"failover-switch-delay" : "60",
"gpu-dyninterval" : "7",
"gpu-platform" : "0",
"log" : "5",
"no-pool-disable" : true,
"queue" : "1",
"scan-time" : "7",
"tcp-keepalive" : "30",
"temp-hysteresis" : "3",
"shares" : "0",
"kernel-path" : "/usr/local/bin",
"no-client-reconnect" : true
}Here is the text contained within the Launch - Scrypt.bat file: setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1
del *.bin
Color 0A
sgminer I then double click on Launch - Scrypt.bat that is in the sgminer-4.1.153-v2 that I downloaded from sgminerwindows.com, but always get this error message? https://i.imgur.com/isH2xXF.jpgAll the files that are contained within the sgminer that I downloaded are these: https://i.imgur.com/ZRpHa23.jpgMy card is a AMD Radeon Sapphire HD 7870 Can someone let me know what or where I am going wrong as I have been trying many different settings this evening, but nothing seems to work. Check config for errors like missing "," "}" last time that was my foult i just forgot "," and wasted 3h... try bat like that: setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100 setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1 del *.bin sgminer --scrypt -o stratum+tcp://blackcoinpool.com:4444 -u BCADDRESS -p PASSWORD then save config and change parameters inside if still problems try cgminer 3.7.2 on that bat rest is optimization IMPORTANT move /rename conf files, miners like force conf paramiters even you have deleted bins Thank you for the reply XbladeX I edited the Launch - Scrypt.bat to: setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1
del *.bin
sgminer --scrypt -o stratum+tcp://blackcoinpool.com:4444 -u BDb6rUjx4hF3SwVhgyEZhZF1rfnxjsX7zv -p xxxxxxxx
pause added pause so I could catch the error window that flashes up, which is as below: https://i.imgur.com/VRJ2QPn.jpgIs a .bin file supposed to be created? In the ,bat file it looks like it is set to delete it when present in the default .bat file in sgminer? remove --scrypt in sgminer bat file Hi SunnyIgor and XbladeX, Removed --scrypt in sgminer bat file, then ran .bat again (note that I am not using the Nscrypt.bat at all) and got this error: https://i.imgur.com/nOF2HrC.jpgCurrent .bat file: setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1
del *.bin
sgminer -o stratum+tcp://blackcoinpool.com:3333 -u BDb6rUjx4hF3SwVhgyEZhZF1rfnxjsX7zv -p xxxxxxxxx
pause Current .conf file: {
"pools" : [
{
"url" : "stratum+tcp://blackcoinpool.com:3333",
"user" : "BDb6rUjx4hF3SwVhgyEZhZF1rfnxjsX7zv",
"pass" : "xxxxxxx"
}
]
,
"intensity" : "13",
"worksize" : "256",
"kernel" : "ckolivas",
"lookup-gap" : "2",
"thread-concurrency" : "24000",
"shaders" : "0",
"gpu-threads" : "1",
"gpu-engine" : "900",
"gpu-fan" : "30-90",
"gpu-memclock" : "1200",
"gpu-memdiff" : "0",
"gpu-powertune" : "0",
"gpu-vddc" : "0.000",
"temp-cutoff" : "95",
"temp-overheat" : "85",
"temp-target" : "75",
"api-mcast-port" : "4028",
"api-port" : "4028",
"auto-fan" : true,
"expiry" : "10",
"failover-switch-delay" : "60",
"gpu-dyninterval" : "7",
"gpu-platform" : "0",
"log" : "5",
"no-pool-disable" : true,
"queue" : "1",
"scan-time" : "7",
"tcp-keepalive" : "30",
"temp-hysteresis" : "3",
"shares" : "0",
"kernel-path" : "/usr/local/bin",
"no-client-reconnect" : true
}Once again, thank you for taking the time to help. delete remove reneme conf files |
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Hi, about a week ago, I had some help via a couple (JamesR1 and XbladeX) of members here with some issues I was having setting up my config files. I know that this will probable seem very simple to most of you, but I am having a nightmare getting my head around it. With BlackFriday looming around the corner, I would like to get myself up and running if possible. Original enquiry: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=469640.msg5896117#msg5896117I have entered my BC Address via My Miner over at Blackcoin Pool.com Here is my sgminer.conf file text: {
"pools" : [
{
"url" : "stratum+tcp://blackcoinpool.com:3333",
"user" : "MyBCAddress",
"pass" : "xxxxxxxxxxx"
}
]
,
"intensity" : "13",
"worksize" : "256",
"kernel" : "ckolivas",
"lookup-gap" : "2",
"thread-concurrency" : "24000",
"shaders" : "0",
"gpu-threads" : "1",
"gpu-engine" : "900",
"gpu-fan" : "30-90",
"gpu-memclock" : "1200",
"gpu-memdiff" : "0",
"gpu-powertune" : "0",
"gpu-vddc" : "0.000",
"temp-cutoff" : "95",
"temp-overheat" : "85",
"temp-target" : "75",
"api-mcast-port" : "4028",
"api-port" : "4028",
"auto-fan" : true,
"expiry" : "10",
"failover-switch-delay" : "60",
"gpu-dyninterval" : "7",
"gpu-platform" : "0",
"log" : "5",
"no-pool-disable" : true,
"queue" : "1",
"scan-time" : "7",
"tcp-keepalive" : "30",
"temp-hysteresis" : "3",
"shares" : "0",
"kernel-path" : "/usr/local/bin",
"no-client-reconnect" : true
}Here is the text contained within the Launch - Scrypt.bat file: setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1
del *.bin
Color 0A
sgminer I then double click on Launch - Scrypt.bat that is in the sgminer-4.1.153-v2 that I downloaded from sgminerwindows.com, but always get this error message? https://i.imgur.com/isH2xXF.jpgAll the files that are contained within the sgminer that I downloaded are these: https://i.imgur.com/ZRpHa23.jpgMy card is a AMD Radeon Sapphire HD 7870 Can someone let me know what or where I am going wrong as I have been trying many different settings this evening, but nothing seems to work. Check config for errors like missing "," "}" last time that was my foult i just forgot "," and wasted 3h... try bat like that: setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100 setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1 del *.bin sgminer --scrypt -o stratum+tcp://blackcoinpool.com:4444 -u BCADDRESS -p PASSWORD then save config and change parameters inside if still problems try cgminer 3.7.2 on that bat rest is optimization IMPORTANT move /rename conf files, miners like force conf paramiters even you have deleted bins Thank you for the reply XbladeX I edited the Launch - Scrypt.bat to: setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1
del *.bin
sgminer --scrypt -o stratum+tcp://blackcoinpool.com:4444 -u BDb6rUjx4hF3SwVhgyEZhZF1rfnxjsX7zv -p xxxxxxxx
pause added pause so I could catch the error window that flashes up, which is as below: https://i.imgur.com/VRJ2QPn.jpgIs a .bin file supposed to be created? In the ,bat file it looks like it is set to delete it when present in the default .bat file in sgminer? setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100 setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1 del *.bin sgminer -o stratum+tcp://blackcoinpool.com:3333 -u BDb6rUjx4hF3SwVhgyEZhZF1rfnxjsX7zv -p xxxxxxxx yes in bin you store old configs this is normal auto creation |
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Hi, about a week ago, I had some help via a couple (JamesR1 and XbladeX) of members here with some issues I was having setting up my config files. I know that this will probable seem very simple to most of you, but I am having a nightmare getting my head around it. With BlackFriday looming around the corner, I would like to get myself up and running if possible. Original enquiry: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=469640.msg5896117#msg5896117I have entered my BC Address via My Miner over at Blackcoin Pool.com Here is my sgminer.conf file text: {
"pools" : [
{
"url" : "stratum+tcp://blackcoinpool.com:3333",
"user" : "MyBCAddress",
"pass" : "xxxxxxxxxxx"
}
]
,
"intensity" : "13",
"worksize" : "256",
"kernel" : "ckolivas",
"lookup-gap" : "2",
"thread-concurrency" : "24000",
"shaders" : "0",
"gpu-threads" : "1",
"gpu-engine" : "900",
"gpu-fan" : "30-90",
"gpu-memclock" : "1200",
"gpu-memdiff" : "0",
"gpu-powertune" : "0",
"gpu-vddc" : "0.000",
"temp-cutoff" : "95",
"temp-overheat" : "85",
"temp-target" : "75",
"api-mcast-port" : "4028",
"api-port" : "4028",
"auto-fan" : true,
"expiry" : "10",
"failover-switch-delay" : "60",
"gpu-dyninterval" : "7",
"gpu-platform" : "0",
"log" : "5",
"no-pool-disable" : true,
"queue" : "1",
"scan-time" : "7",
"tcp-keepalive" : "30",
"temp-hysteresis" : "3",
"shares" : "0",
"kernel-path" : "/usr/local/bin",
"no-client-reconnect" : true
}Here is the text contained within the Launch - Scrypt.bat file: setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100
setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1
del *.bin
Color 0A
sgminer I then double click on Launch - Scrypt.bat that is in the sgminer-4.1.153-v2 that I downloaded from sgminerwindows.com, but always get this error message? https://i.imgur.com/isH2xXF.jpgAll the files that are contained within the sgminer that I downloaded are these: https://i.imgur.com/ZRpHa23.jpgMy card is a AMD Radeon Sapphire HD 7870 Can someone let me know what or where I am going wrong as I have been trying many different settings this evening, but nothing seems to work. Check config for errors like missing "," "}" last time that was my foult i just forgot "," and wasted 3h... try bat like that: setx GPU_MAX_ALLOC_PERCENT 100 setx GPU_USE_SYNC_OBJECTS 1 del *.bin sgminer --scrypt -o stratum+tcp://blackcoinpool.com:3333 -u BCADDRESS -p PASSWORD then save config and change parameters inside if still problems try cgminer 3.7.2 on that bat rest is optimization IMPORTANT move /rename conf files, miners like force conf paramiters even you have deleted bins |
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Din look at HeavyCoin algorithm it takes -50% power cost comparing to script and -30% less than X11 while hash speed is 9x higher.
Anyway hash speed doesn't matter as much as power cost now ^^ while we in deep of price of all crypto now.
Darkcoin x11 is popular just because it was 1st anyway Heavy has better for sure.
Even keeping x11 is much better than script or n factor.
Less power > more miners > better distribution at the end. (probably about 30% more miners involved some of them will stick with edge for longer )
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Let's have a once monthly International Blackcoin rent-a-farm day. Say, the first Friday of every month - we can call it Black Friday -Everyone who can rents a fucking GPU-farm for 24 hours and hits the Blackcoinpool. It would be a great way to bring the worldwide Blackcoin community together.
+1 +1 Yeah, I'm gonna +1 myself on this one. International Black Friday inauguration date is April 4th. Guest list: Jabulon, 26.5 MH/s +1 but buying coins will occur in random time during next weekend just in case to deter pumpers ^^ and buy on low for miners. |
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This can not be done with other coins because all other coins are being mined they are proof of work. Its only possible with proof of stake. Blackcoin cant be mined so its
immune to dumping. Its the first true 100% proof of stake! It can be used to prove the point that mining is a waste of power and time. Blackcoin is faster, and POS is better.
Peercoin has no community. Thats the problem. So other coins can try to mine other coins to buy their own but that would drop the difficulty of their own coin.
If their difficulty drops, they would have to mine their own coins again. Thus, it detracts from the intended deflationary nature of their coins!!!! People do not
realize that Blackcoin is the only coin that can win the war because they can use the mining power to buy itself which is limited in supply! I have no idea why this coin
is not at least 10 times what it is now. Any miner who does not mine this coin is insane. Every miner should move in on Blackcoin.
What happens when other pure POS coins starts doing the same thing. The more different coin's multipools there are competing with each other, the less money each multipool will make to buy their own coin with. Could it result in a few giant multipools dominating the market and squeezing out the smaller multipools and their coins? POS cannot fright each other direct but like rather with communities. You are seeing here many "Mint fans" trying FUDs, advertising ext... "Buy Mint" bla bla... This is that kind of fight.Dirty but their damge their own coin more that way. ( Sorry for Mint community buy only they come here and bash BC... i didn't saw any HBN,PPC,Nova,NXT user blaming BC like Mint is doing) More multipools is ok because not all coin need to be mine with 10Ghs.. or 2Ghs... Smaller pools are trying adjust to situation.If any main pool fails you just swith to other it is harder DDOS 4 pools than just one. Those pools are destroying price of POW coin only not POS... There is no matter if people are mining for BTC,BC,NXT... POS coin price can be destroyed only by inpatient owners or people who really need cash out even on low. People are considering BC like store of wealth.(that is why BC MP so great) NXT this very good coin to pump that way but only when you subtract that factor it was 1st distributed to only 72 people...Plus BC over NXT is that you can get you 1% stake after year of holding coin in wallet in same time NXT require being online al time if you want POS minig. NXT was considering as good coin only alternative to POS system but BC is superior in distribution and not being premine just free market here. NXT was 100% premined...But those are only my thoughts |
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Hello,
I need some advice. I have 1,74 LTC in my wallet and want to trade them for black coin maybe. But when i look at the chart at mintpal i got more the idea that the coin will fall back to 2000 instead of going up. What whould you do? Should i sell all my LTC and trade them for BlackCoin? Or sell a bit LTC and when the price goes down buy a bit more BC? At this point i dont know anymore because you cant predict the market. And another question, what does this coin bring for the community except it was the first PoS coin? I mean Mint has 26 merchants and black coin none. So anybody an idea? I started in January and that was a bit late and didnt had or have much money to buy a good mining rig. With my two GPU's i has with 750 kh/s but i try and dont want to screw things up i want to try this for a long term investment and need good advice about what i should do.
Thank you!
Actually, BC is going down, probably to 5200-5000 sat, but i highly doubt it will go to 2000. And you have to know that the BCMultipool Payouts will come in a few hours, this means price will be up a bit at this moment (around 3 to5 BTC buy order, maybe more). That's my short term prediction, and i'm not an expert. Can't tell what the value will be tommorow, when China will awake... So take it for what it's worth. It's just more Mint FUD, carried over from yesterday. Just ignore, and preferably report. What BC FUDs are popular now i was off for a weekend ? |
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BlackCoin Multipool current speed update for those that want to know and those that just joined in;
Scrypt: 630MH/s
SHA256: 1000GH/s
and growing...
I have to admit, these pools are confusing to me. Are the payouts coming from one of the existing wallet balances? Since the coins is PoS at this point, that's the only way it could be getting paid out, or am I missing something major? They mine other ALTs, dump them on the market and buy BC It seems that only they can get Only when we pay But on free market there is allways somebody willing to buy some alt qustion is what price will be  ... When you mine most profitable it just mean that you mine more effective. Many people mined Doge to swap it for LTC eg. and Many people wanted swap LTC for Doge... There will be allways some coin to mine all depends how much profit you will get. With BC you just more like store of value of alt becouse it can not be mined more in traditional way. In log run with bigger price like eg, Bitcoin it can be more stable. You remember that guy who bougth pizza for 10000BTC... what wallet he could have 100k or mayby more BTC. So with some time BC will have some liquid after 2-3 years noone will care that 1m stakeholder. About minig you will allways find someone willing to buy mined coins one people will swap it into $ some will buy BC... |
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PSA this is the Blackcoin thread for all those who have trouble with reading.
I understand you're bagholders in other coins, but trying to dump your shit on us in the blackcoin thread is in poor taste.
+1 And this is bad PR for those coins too when you want out shit on BC. You want make advertisement of other coin you are free to do it in other tread. And those all FUDs... + those whining in XXX coin i can earn more and more come and pump it for me becouse im bagholder of it. If you want make here complain that you coin in bag is 100x betrer than BC just GTFO |
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It was the first hybrid PoW/PoS to go to only PoS with 0 premine and no IPO...... others=crap
I think IPO was genius, now they creators have a lot of money that they can use to create a really awesome product. Oh well, I guess we all have our favorites.. Nxt has huge things coming it's way though. This is not good way when you all coin distribute to 72 people... Price doesn't matter. IPO - generally there is no scam behind it IPO investors took risk only risk, but is stupid when whole amount you divide to only 72 people like with NXT. More fair is system is like BC with POW distribution and high difficulty at beginning and initial about 5000 users at beginning... If some people have even hmm 5m BC that is only beouse we let them to have it... Don't sell cheap and don't cry later is that big problem ? If someone sold BC for 500 and now price is about ~5000 he will come here and flame about BC...scam...FUDs... but in reality he can not stand his loss. If someone have even 2m BC this is just because he was willing to buy it at current market price. He is keeping BC and he is rewarding for that anyway all who flame BC could did the same noone prevent them... NXT is total different coin than BC. BC is building his community from scratch it have to every new member add some value to BC some new concepts / ideas. Some people are making stuff like BCpool,Casino... BC Devs is real poor about 35k/74m 0,0005% from donations... same time premined coins have eg. 1%-5% market share... Do you see difference ? One Dev is making something for fun for some adventure other to be honest mostly for $ profit. Eg. when some developer want create some green energy saving coin and he officially don't support multipoolpump idea but he is agreed that it can help them. I just asked myself who it will help? Ok at beginning he will have more some coin but at the and of story whole green idea is broken and Dev looks like person who cares only about profit... Not about idea behind it... I just liked when people came here and wanted more % of interest and rat4 wrote in FAQ something like that. 1% interest to small for you...What you doing here try HBN...(150% true inflation this year 100% from POS 50% from POW) But in few days he removed that HBN part to do not make free commercial for HBN haha... Point is that he hard refuse breaking concept of coin for quicker $ and to attract more people. |
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why can't the wallet have an option to only be unlocked for staking but not allow for any transactions to be SENT? then ppl could leave their wallets unlocked to stake without worry of being stolen.
Good point we will try ask rar4 for that feature.Something like transaction password block |
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when does this coin come out? also what estimated price is the ipo.
for example if i invest 0.05 btc how much edgecoin do i get and when. also when can i start mining
If you mine all depend on difficulty but eg Zeit keep price and none want sell me 1m for 0.01 BTC  after minig. So don't expect miracle for 0.05 BTC you will get now 10-15m from IPO // ~ something about that. If offcourse dev don't run away with IPO. In worst caste 1-2 sat for Edge you cen buy 2m-3m. But this is not premine coin but IPOshare coin so there will be bit different mechanic. // If it will start offcourse - IPO investors are taking bigest risk in backing project. Premine - Dev dump VS IPO - Miners can dump |
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not looking good when the dev is getting banned! :L glad i didnt invest!
He is probably now unbanned he got 24h ban for spamming advertisements. Just don't make to big drama if he wont run away with IPO BTC all should be ok ^^ |
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I might invest a little after all, just curious about this one first. What is the mining algo going to be?
Scrypt PoS We are actually taking a look at x11. Thanks for the feedback better is Heavycoin algo "HEFTY1" faster and less power for GPU mining ^^. At least i have quiet in bathroom now well optimized algorithm. |
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any idea where the price track will end up? seems to be a slow drop atm, given whats recently happened to BC i dont blame it for dropping.
before just people overhyped BCmooltipool which is in beta. now is "correction" and return to normal plus we are absorbing stolen BCs ths is why its stopped rissing for a while ^^ |
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the cryptorush.in has the black coin's problem,why it has,i still have some btc in it,how can i get it back.
u missed part with CR fail ? and lost 1.5m because of their bug in DB ? in short : - they lost 1.5 / stole your BC. //people was able withdraw more than they had. - they want give you back BC but they don't promise do it for sure ... |
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I swear transactions are almost instant with BC. I click enter and the wallet pops up to say its received, do other coins do that because Ive never noticed it show that fast
Pure POS ^^ that is why is so fast.In POW you are capped by block generation time in pure BC POS you are not. |
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