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That is is you want to have a guaranteed successful 51% attack...than 51% of the total coins STAKING....
barabbas you know that there are systems like PPC NOVA are using to prevent small amounts to make 51% attack they are preventing it because of stake modyficators time stamps many other combined solutions that only core coders understand not you... At the end you have centralized CHECKPOINTs and no 51% attack is possible because of that... POS system is not like just that you have 51%of stake and you will attack... look how Nova is preventing 51% attack with having only 25% coins those technologies are known... in fact when you have centralized checkpoint you are safe from 2x spend cause checkpoint servers will chose right chain for you...Stop telling how you know POS while you are far away from tech aspects of case. I am noob too but i know "a little more". Tech info below ( BC in POS 2.0 pushed even further those security ... ) ____________________ http://coinwiki.info/en/NovacoinStake generation issues The main proof-of-stake design problem is that unlike proof-of-work hashing rate, stake weight could be used multiple times without any overhead. It allows potential attacker to repeat his attempts to generate consecutive stakes until he will get lucky enough. And there is high probability to success without holding large stake, 20–25% of total weight (not coins) will be more than enough. Attacker can retry his attempts to generate consecutive stakes 1,000, 50,000, or 1 million times without any problem, using the same outputs.[12][13] This could be worked around using centralized check-pointing. Novacoin creators resolved this issue using balanced weighting scheme.[14] Centralized check pointing As PPCoin ideas descendant, Novacoin is not truly a decentralized currency as it still requires centralized check pointing to avoid several issues.[15] The Novacoin developer has announced however that this check pointing is only a temporary measure which will be removed once the currency grows sufficiently stable. The centralized checkpoints feature could be disabled manually using -nosynccheckpoints option for official client. |
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Veircoin is not a coin desigend to make happy the crypto world . It is designed to improve average people life .
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Use Credit card - then you can even spend money that you didn't posses... Safer faster accepted allmost everywhere... Connected with your banck acc and job salary. What do you think an avarage people would have done agains the hack ? rollback or let it go ? I think the answer is pretty clear .
Don't keep money on exchange probably is best solution... if those folks didn't keep 1/3 of all suply on Mintpal problem wouldn't be exist even i such scale... Rollback or let it go ?
If no rollback then you show that you can't trust exchanges all people have to keep money safe in home wallets paper wallets. Exchange with broken seciurity will be out of ecosystem and only bug free will stay with best seciurity solutions. Mechants have trust in alt because no one of 3rd party can force rollback-charge back in very easy way. Wallet fix will blow up dynamic interest and bring static solutions from Nova to make coin safe even with 30% staking in one wallet..After 2 months price go back to 40k -50k... and rise...100k -200k like it was with DRK DOGE BTC BC... ___________________ Now rollback: -People learned that best safe way is keep money on main exchange becouse they will force dev to rollback when needed. security will lay on exchange side. -Merchant lost trust in coin some people will lose REAL BTC becouse BTC wont rollback never -in short therem stakeholders are happy in longer run all know how VRC saved Mintpal -VRC main code wasn't updated again in solutions from PPC,NOVA,BC... to repel attacks future is unknown it can go up or down but because of that shady fix i never trust VRC again. |
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...Lets talk centralization, cause thats sure to catch peoples interest!
Vericoin wants to use the blockchain to go after a mass audience, not the crypto nuts!...
If you want centralized system just use Visa credit card or PayPal… they are much more usefull than any Veri BTC LTC in speed, easy to use... and accepted everywhere, connected with you bank… You can eve buy preloaded credit cards for children, transaction are completed in seconds… centralized system works. Crypto is about non authority control currency you can send money when you want (to shops, to Wikileaks ) and transactions can not be charge backs… Here is biggest value of crypto currency. In real that was only ONE good reason to use crypto, to feel free and transactions can not be stopped… transactions can not be charge back… goverments can put regulations but it can not be stopped. This is value of crypto. |
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Many people are missing all the team did.
As soon as VeriCoin was alerted they shut off Veri-bit ect and secured the coin from every way possible. Including an unpopular descision to protect its community from a thief. End of Story, VeriCoin is here to stay, and its here to change the way people view crypto. Live with it.
... Such event only hurt whole crypto reputation and shows how easy you can make rollbacks on demand... Rollback like this will damage image of All alts... All because of VRC community was keeping 1/3 of all coins in one place even with that POS coins like Nova PPC NXT BC can resist those attacks you have "centralized checkpoints" to solve issues like that... you can play with stake modfiacators, coin age,time stamps to make such attack almost imposable to execute... Rollback here is for save coin in short therm it creates dangerous social experiment for all crypto i will never support that that is why BTC is huge... |
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So far what I get from the FUD is a projection of their own fears at the loss of integrity of their own coins as a result of being shown up by their biggest competitor. Because in reality it seems to be them that experience the loos of integrity, while Vericoin has taken on new followers as a result.
Already watching a few return to the circle. Couple of my friends were very iffy about bitcoin, now they feel they are safe to get in.
Quite funny to watch.
Yea and best for them will be keeping coin on exchange in case of hack they don't need worry about security anymore... Better not risk having coins on local PC  - no rollbacks That even hurt ALL crypto this is sad. |
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Perhaps we have just witnessed the death of proof of stake coins - a wallet in an exchange can hold and stake such a large percentage they can execute their own attack on the network. Or someone who can hack and take control of that wallet could kill the coin. Centralized much?
There are solution to that 30% attack possible: Nova coin: Novacoin creators resolved this issue using balanced weighting scheme. PPC: Centralized checkpoints. BC : ( PPC + NOVA + own implementation of all in POS2.0 ) NXT: build up to resist 90%+ attacks... VRC - had rollback to save stake holders asses who left 1/3 of coin in one place and do not let it dump on market that is all don't join into that shit whole POS family |
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Once the issue gets resolved and the devs and community come back to the thread, its going to be a fucking circus with all the fudders. See you later VRC thread, prob will be locked.  This ^ is what I see given what happened today with the rollback. No rules just roll it back. Future implications of roll backs need to be addressed. They devs said they will never do it again. I doubt that. What if 30% gets stolen again? What % is the cut off to be considered "roll-back" material? 10%? 20%? maybe then developer will go true way of development POS. Anyway solutions to 30% staking should be implemented already, if VRC is PPC>NOVA>BC fork and whole situation of 30% coins is just smoke screen of saving Mintpal exchange. Here source of info. Issues/controversies ( http://coinwiki.info/en/Novacoin ) Stake generation issuesThe main proof-of-stake design problem is that unlike proof-of-work hashing rate, stake weight could be used multiple times without any overhead. It allows potential attacker to repeat his attempts to generate consecutive stakes until he will get lucky enough. And there is high probability to success without holding large stake, 20–25% of total weight (not coins) will be more than enough. Attacker can retry his attempts to generate consecutive stakes 1,000, 50,000, or 1 million times without any problem, using the same outputs.[12][13] This could be worked around using centralized check-pointing. Novacoin creators resolved this issue using balanced weighting scheme.[14] Centralized check pointing_______ (BC POS 2.0 make more to repel those kind of attacks too... ) |
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I would bet this was somehow an inside job either with VRC dev's and someone inside Mintpal hence why the decision to rollback was such an easy out.
... i agree with that something is wrong around whole situation... Who would benefit from this though?  If there was BIG deal around and we didn't saw it... some one with BIG BTC wallet could force rollback IMO. This is only one of many theories there is MANY BC clones XC Cloack Cry and more more - mostly POW coins are benefits (BTC,LTC are winners here ) of whole shit storm because they have shown that idiots who keep coins 1/3 of all on one exchange they blame exchange for manipulation but not themselves... And now best: solution to attacks possible with 20%-35% attacks are known:NOVA coin use (balanced weighting scheme.) PPC ( centralized check-pointing ) BC ( POS 2.0 join both + coing age modification ) while VRC will solve it by rollback is that true way to do it ?Here source of info: ___________________________________________________________ Issues/controversies Stake generation issues ( http://coinwiki.info/en/Novacoin ) The main proof-of-stake design problem is that unlike proof-of-work hashing rate, stake weight could be used multiple times without any overhead. It allows potential attacker to repeat his attempts to generate consecutive stakes until he will get lucky enough. And there is high probability to success without holding large stake, 20–25% of total weight (not coins) will be more than enough. Attacker can retry his attempts to generate consecutive stakes 1,000, 50,000, or 1 million times without any problem, using the same outputs.[12][13] This could be worked around using centralized check-pointing. Novacoin creators resolved this issue using balanced weighting scheme.[14] |
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We won't be adding flavor of the week clone coins to our exchange, we will focus on coins that add true innovation to the crypto ecosystem and maintain good trading volumes. We felt MintPal practice of ninja adding several direct clone coins of Blackcoin after BC succeeded did a lot of damage to our value for their own profit. We want to provide a quality exchange and we will select quality coins to be traded on it.
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And that CAN MAKE you huge !! i am tired of shit clones without any development behind. |
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Root of the problem (IMO) is this is a mintpal issue.. ...
After party you forgot that 1/3 of all coins were stored on ONE exchange like in on line wallet... POS systems as secure as they stakeholders are if you as majority trust exchange... I don't see to regular people taking here risk of having coins in their wallets because if Mintpal wallet will be hacked again it will be rollback if my wallet on local PC will be hacked i am lost. I don't see point to keep money safe in local PC from VRC holder point of View mintpal is less risky place than local PC IMO. |
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I would bet this was somehow an inside job either with VRC dev's and someone inside Mintpal hence why the decision to rollback was such an easy out.
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i agree with that something is wrong around whole situation... |
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As far as we know the coins that were stolen on Mintpal (not cloakcoin) was related to an exploit in the security system of the exchange. Nothing to do with the coin itself.
The flaw that we found in many PoS systems enables somebody (or a group) to effectively sabotage the PoS staking system and grind it to a halt.
It doesn't enable people to steal coins.
Today is Sunday and lead dev has been off to attend to other things. Tomorrow is Monday, that means more productivity.
Patience guys, we got a long way ahead of us and these are early days.
Hmm interesting. if that true looks like Dagger will join to elite good POS devs : ) Sunnyking, Rat4 . Good to know.Not many coins contribute to POS now days.If real worth to buy some cloak. +1 for real POS developer. PS: Anyway as i see in POS ( PPC BC ) most changes are around timestamps last BC attack was time bomb attack i wonder if it is another exploit of that type. that is why PPC systems runs centralized checpointing |
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Why don't Vericoin community use the decentralized Nxt asset exchange ?
Probaly for same reason that they keep 1/3 of all coins in one place for convenience and laziness. They use exchange like online wallet. Anyway i think that p2p solutions are future of crypto Assent exchange is ok , Counterparty exchange too, bithalo + nighttrader (more solution we have then better for crypto ) at some point people will atop and realize that centralized exchange give more damage that profit for us all. And what will happen to all the transactions that took place after the hack, they will also be void if I'm not wrong? I don't own any VeriCoins but just concerned about the people who bought coins after this incident took place.
transaction will be rejected... merchants and other exchanges will lose BTC because of that hack this is side effect of roll back. they are talking that there was no too many trades so they can reverse all - all depends how much BTC attacked has stolen already... before those BTC/VRC was stole from exchange now coins will be stolen from merchants and individual traders who were trading with thief. |
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Rolling back would be the same thing as producing money out of thin air...moving it magically from one wallet to another.
Except that no new coins were created. Anyway VRC broke here "unbreakable" rule crypto is not paypal you can not charge back... many coins were hacked before and recovered ?... I know many coins who were damaged by thief BTC - GOX, LTC BTC-e, Doge - online wallet,DRK - Poloniex 300k , BC - crypto rush... and much more coins but general rule here was simple crypto you can't charge back that was main point of crypto no one can stop it: government, stake holders,thiefs... BTC and alts all the time learn other how important it to not keep all money on any exchange... Whole situation is shady because mostly save only big exchange... POS system is secure as they stakeholders are when VRC community decided keep 1/3 of all supply in one place they provoked such situation... |
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Ask yourself, if your other alts had this happen, what would the dev response have been?
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Pos 2.0 rat4 (Blackcoin core dev) developed system to rappel such attacks or make it REALY hard to do... But whole his idea was marginalized by VRC community as unnecessary because you don't need it...http://www.blackcoin.co/blackcoin-pos-protocol-v2-whitepaper.pdfA. Coin Age In the PeerCoin protocol block generation is based on coin age which is a factor that increases the weight of unspent coins linearly over time; the proof that has to be provided together with a new block and has to satisfy the following condition: proofhash < coins · age .... In short BC dev did: CHANGES IN THE PROTOCOL -A. Taking the Coin Age out of the equation. -B. Changing the Stake Modifier -C. Block Timestamp Rules this took him months of work and few thousands lines of code to solve your attack problems like you can suffer now if you will read whitepaper correctly you will find solution how prevent 30%
of coins ruling whole POS network that is why he called it POS 2.0 ...
it soved in simply way one of POS problems |
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Try do the same with decentralized BTC...
Check-and-mate, ignoramus.
BTC has hard forked previously. You, sir, are merely insistent on baring your ignorance to the world. BTC fork didn't roll back transactions this is difference... Anyway here is hard decision to make and no winners at the and because of fail coin build mostly. Don't get me wrong all types of coins have their problems. |
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Because one guy can rollback coin... this is evidence You need to learn a little more of the concept of what a hard fork is. If 'one guy' attempted a hard fork and the rest of the coin's community did not accept it, do you know what happens? Nothing. No fork takes place. We have been told why a fork needs to occur, but it requires the majority to accept it. So, no, it is not 'one guy' performing a hard fork, it is the community. Decentralised. Check-and-mate, ignoramus. " 1) We lost a considerable amount of VeriCoin in the attack, however we have been working with the VRC developers and all major exchanges to hard fork the coin at a position before the attack. " = rollback in short ( https://support.mintpal.com/index.php?module=announce&sec=view&id=17 ) Have little guys decided about that hard fork or you got solution and have to accept it ? NO. Devs and exchanges comes out with ultimate solution to save their business mostly. Answers is no - those hard decision was taken by developer and exchange owners... You can only accept it or no... Try do the same with decentralized BTC... Check-and-mate, ignoramus. |
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No they picked the worse of two evils, they just proved this coin is completely centralized crypto and it will screw over countless innocent people. How do you figure that a theft of VRC from an exchange is evidence of VRC being centralised? It was stolen from an exchange, not from a VRC services. VRC is still a decentralised currency. If this had occurred from a service provided by VRC then you'd have a point but it is nothing to do with VRC and everything to do with, again, trading-exchange weaknesses. try do the same with BTC... eg. MtGox... BTC-e hacks and much more people lost 500m+ $ and no fork this is decentralization. |
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People should take note of this. Not because of the hack, but because of the immediate step-up of the developers to defend the integrity of the coin.
Ladies and gentlemen, I do believe the bar has effectively been raised.
+10 But thing about it widely: 1) Conclusion is that VRC is valuable to 8m /27 *100% = 30% attacks...not 51%2) Big hit into decentralization image of VRC "rolbacks" - shows that crypto is not decentralized coin... So fork BTC before MtGox that way... |
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