What are the 5 last things you paid for with BTC (without converting it to USD before the deal was done) and how long ago were these purchases made?
This is a good question, but could you clarify the bit about the conversion part? do you mean that I personally had to convert to fiat? or that I used a bitpay like service and effectively I paid in bitcoin and the vendor received fiat? cuz I've done tons of bitpay like purchases, where I don't have to convert shit. but if you're talking about a transaction where I pay bitcoin directly to the vendor and the vendor actually accepts bitcoin and doesn't immediately convert to fiat? I can only think of 2 scenarios where that has occurred. - when I bought something from someone on this forum. - when I tipped someone from this forum because they freely gave me advice or information that I directly profited from. and that's about it/ *added a bit of ranting - viewer discretion is advised*This is why I think that all this regulation talk is complete bullshit. They should first prove that they can effectively regulate their own failing currency before they go ahead and fuck up ours. Shmadz: You are changing the question. All that matters is what you did. If you bought with bitcoin, then you have accomplished an affirmative response to the question. It does NOT matter what the receiver of your bitcoin did, and you may NOT even know what they did - whether they converted the BTC to fiat or NOT. |
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Yes I was referring to btc price. If bulls don't seize opportunities when they arise, then surely price will go down. The good news doesn't seem to move the market, but I'm fairly sure that bad news will.
But the term "all the way" usually means 0 level.Do you really think we are going all the way down? Might have to label you a permabear also  . No I'm not that bearish I have been bearish since I started trading bitcoin. Looking back I have not had many reasons not to be bearish When did you start trading bitcoin? And did you come to bitcoin b/c of its volatility? |
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It is interesting to observe the extremely diverse range of coexisting opinions on the price here. One group of posters will be absolutely confident that we are inevitably seeing $5000 by the summer, and the next group of posters will have lost all faith and not believe that it will even recover from this crash and hold value at all.
And you're part of which group?  Luckily, there is a middle ground. I doubt he's part of this one . I frequently wonder about what purpose(s) is(are) served by misstating basic facts. The description here is that people who participate in this thread are fanatics.. they believe one extreme or another - however, most people would self-describe as being reasonable to take into account information before deciding what to do. That self-description is mostly true - even though some people will panic at various points. My point is that we are NOT a bunch of extremists, here. So that is spreading FUD. |
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Attention: I have just been dubbed with the honorary title of the greatest most bearish type of bear there is: a permabear. This came after projecting a flat short term market and 'only' a 500% per year exponential growth trend.
No it was based on all your other posts. This post was actually bullish. That is what made me take note. Someone, who thus far was predicting the end of the world as we know it, switching to an (exponential) uptrend. I thought that was worthy to be mentioned Predicting that a short term dip will occur but then rebound all the way back up and then reach new highs is 'the end of the world'. #bitcointhings Attention: I have just been dubbed with the honorary title of the greatest most bearish type of bear there is: a permabear. This came after projecting a flat short term market and 'only' a 500% per year exponential growth trend.
And you just realized that ? I've never been called 'permabear' before. That is supposed to be people who don't think that btc will ever rise again and is a bad long term investment. People like Fonzie. The problem here is that you are talking to bitcoiners, who I start to believe are the same people who would think that MLM is the next best thing and is going to make them rich. why dont you say how you really feel?  My understanding is that MLM is another way of saying that you think that bitcoin is a pyramid scheme and believers do NOT realize that bitcoin is a pyramid scheme. Accordingly, you are of the belief that bitcoin bulls are delusional. It seems too premature to come to any kind of conclusion that bitcoin bulls are delusional - maybe if the bitcoin price remains more or less in the sub $500 range for the next approximately 18 months, I may begin to agree with conclusions that bitcoin bulls are delusional... otherwise... your assertion seems to be premature... and the delusional ones seem to be the bears... especially any bear that happens to be informed about bitcoin.. if they believe that the price is going to remain below $500 or even to plummet into the below $266 arena.. they seem to be much more delusional than the bulls... b/c the odds are much greater that btc prices are going up from here rather than down... especially, if we project into the next 3 months or longer |
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According to my data, the number of new users learning about Bitcoin is still decreasing. (This is an index number based on statistics from websites/webpages explaining about bitcoin.)  Today's index (not plotted here but on hourly chart) looks like it's going to be a new yearly low for a Friday. why does your "chart" only go back until January 2014? That is a bit selective of a rendition of the situation, isn't it? |
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Another thing that annoys me is that when I write "Inevitable crash" I get 3 responses within a minute stating that I am pulling predictions out of my ass. While in the meantime if for example Chessnut predicts "CCMF" with his EW analysis (which he hasnt the slightest idea about), people are already like "CCMF" etc.
b/c ultimately, chestnut is correct, even if he is NOT correct about the timing... and/or his TAs may be less than ideal, he is correct about the direction |
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First of all, my opinion is not on bitcoin, strictly on its price. Second, I agree that crypto will revolutionize the finances. Just decided not to buy bitcoin atm, is all . BTW, I am not trying to write some manifesto on my personal investing philosophy. Somebody asked why the price falling without any bad news. I tried to answer as a representative of people having money put aside for high risk investments and being able to buy btc instantly, but nevertheless not buying them atm. WTF?  I had been attempting to give you the benefit of the doubt in my various responses to you, and now you are talking like a fool. I do NOT usually like to preach to anyone, but your recent responses seem to merit some preaching. If you are prepared to make various investments into potentially risky asset classes, then do that with bitcoin - rather than sitting on the sidelines and getting caught up by the price... fuck the price.. This bitcoin matter is NOT a religion, so get that out of your head.. b/c if you believe that people who are investing in BTC are lured in to some kind of religious perspective, you are deluded and failing to see reality and oversimplifying based on FUD. If you have been learning about bitcoin in recent months and seriously considering bitcoin as a potential investment (rather than trolling us like some fool, like Jorge, and maybe there are a few others that fit into that category), then you should realize that you do NOT have to buy a whole bitcoin. Buy a fucking fraction of a bitcoin, such as .1BTC or some other level that is comfortable for you. If you are seriously considering the relative value of bitcoin as compared with other investments, such as penny stocks, you should at least recognize that you will learn more about bitcoin by going through the process of putting a little skin into the game and buying some small amount. If you believe that .1BTC is too much for you and you believe the price could drop more, then buy .05BTC or some smaller amount and wait it out. Maybe you will be correct and the price will drop. On the other hand, the odds seem to be that the price is NOT dropping much more and it is more likely to go up from here within the next few hours or months (we cannot know exactly when, but it seems more likely to go up rather than to go down). In sum, I am suggesting in a nice way that you just get involved a little bit more than you are, rather than seeming to preach and judge us from some sideline idiotic perspective. The farce and idiocy of Jorge and his ilk is to invest so much time into learning about bitcoin, and NOT to put a little bit of skin into the game based on some high falutin perspective that you are above bitcoin. There's no reason to call him names just because he presented his opinion, relatively innocently, I might add. BTW Jorge imo is not trolling. He may turn out to be horribly wrong, but I don't think he is a fool, and I think he honestly believes what he says here. He has a couple trolling posts, but he makes them (I believe purposefully) quite obvious. It seems that I explained my reasons for my various explicatives which I believe are justified in order to make my point(s). Possibly, in the end, we just view matters differently regarding whether different words would have made the point(s) better. |
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has there ever been an asset where almost every participant sooner or later turns into a walking pr-machine in the same way bitcoin does it for its community members ? one million bitcoin holders all telling it to grandma & friends; all those developers working on new layers (how many are there - thousands ?) all the vc money pouring in the last 12 months, despite of one of the longest downtrends in btc history. almost every central bank in the world has issued statements, tons of government agencies are watching it, struggling for regulation. an asset with this tiny tiny market cap of just 5 billion is constantly in the headlines, causing raised eyebrows throughout the governments/banks/investment funds/venture capital firms of the entire planet - has there ever been anything like that before ? just sit back for a moment and grasp what has been achieved so far. a disruptive technology combined with an uncounted number enthusiasts/nutters stampeding through the forums, choo choo ing on every hick-up dwarfing the sheer cheering potential of even the goldbugs... p2p, decentralized, money, internet, global AND already beating every fucking other asset that exists. 5 billion is dust compared to the figures of global trade, financial assets/investments, internet trade, etc, etc - literally less than a some flies shit in a zoo - but still you have central banks of G8 (oh wait - it is G 7 now  ) members coming out with statements like this: As they do with platform-based digital currencies, central
banks are studying and closely monitoring decentralized digital
currencies such as Bitcoin. There could be potential risks to
overall financial stability if Bitcoin became a signifi cant means
of payment and the Bitcoin system remained unstable http://www.bankofcanada.ca/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/boc-review-spring14-fung.pdfin my opinion even the bears play an important role in delivering the bitcoin evangelium to the potential masses: if all would be only cheering, plenty of new potential investors (even small scale) wouldn´t take this community serious. it is the critical bears talk who is appealing to those (before they get sucked in )bitcoin is on a winning streak. even today at 445... Thank you, bears!!!!!!!!!!  Sorry. I am getting emotional. |
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No. I think that these "betting proposals" are used against me when I present an inconvenient truth, in an attempt to derail. Chew that first Nancy Reagan said that. "just say no." |
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Don't you know that because price went from 10 to 1000, that it will go from 400 to 40000 just as easily?
And from 40,000 to 4,000,000 just as easily? Yeah, it is exactly the part I am not "getting". Perhaps because I am a mathematician and vaguely remember from school that amount of money in the Universe is finite . But you are just trolling, right? You do NOT have to believe in 10X exponential growth to recognize that BTC is a good investment. Just stick with 6% annual growth, and you will more than likely be satisfied with BTC's returns over the next few years b/c I am quite confident that BTC prices are going to appreciate more than 6% per year in the next few years. |
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at current prices risk/reward ratio for bit coin is not that great, market is practically frozen so trading is almost impossible, so they are gradually moving out to other investments.
I don't see how someone rational can come to that conclusion. Risk/reward ratio not that great ? People who evaluate the risk/reward ratio of bitcoin as poor really deserve to sell now, more or less at the bottom. I don't think there is any investment that has a better risk/reward ratio - unless you are extremely risk averse. It is funny how blind people are. What exactly has better risk/reward? There is none. Bitcoin has a small risk of going to zero, perhaps 3% annualized. That is about the same as fiat cash, or stocks, so we are talking about a net zero risk. Bitcoin's volatility is high, but the historical return is still so good that 60% of every 30-day periods are positive and in Bitcoin's history there has not been a negative year, for example. No matter which investment length period you take, and compare bitcoin with anything else, they come out a winner. So the volatility is not a problem - bitcoins have been the least risk investment on the planet for the last 5 years, because they have never returned a loss after 2 years which all the others have. The return is very good, about 1000% per year, which is higher than the returns of competing investments in the expected range of -5%...10% of returns. Currently there are about a million Bitcoin holders, which is so small that even after 10x growth from here, we are still in "innovators" and not even "early adopters" category. Furthermore, less than 100,000 people actually use Bitcoin. The potential for growth is staggering. The timing for investment, as measured by any growth trendline, is excellent right now, as the overshoot of the previous bubble has been purged, yet the infrastructure is growing, and the new wave of investors (in 10s of millions) is just waiting for the signal to enter. NOW that response is priceless - even though a bit more bullish than the average bull, but still, priceless - and I am NOT talking about religion... he h ehe |
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at current prices risk/reward ratio for bit coin is not that great, market is practically frozen so trading is almost impossible, so they are gradually moving out to other investments.
I don't see how someone rational can come to that conclusion. Risk/reward ratio not that great ? People who evaluate the risk/reward ratio of bitcoin as poor really deserve to sell now, more or less at the bottom. I don't think there is any investment that has a better risk/reward ratio - unless you are extremely risk averse. LOL, it does seem that I am not only "irrational" person here - somehow we do not see many people buying this "best investment ever". I am not selling either, I have never owned a bit coin. I am just sharing how it looks like form my perspective as someone who was interested in investing in bit coin since beginning of this year but decided recently to move on. EDIT: I am not risk averse at all - I have been trading penny stocks and options at college already Bitcoin has been best investment ever early on, but at this point in time I see better options. We will see in a couple of years who was right. You really have no idea do you "Couple of Years" I loled Also what OTHER OPPORTUNITIES have the potential to give you a 1000% return that are not on late night shoppiung channel "The exciting world of Ostrich Farms" "Binary trading" Enter your sugestion here ___________ ? Well, you are apparently one of the believers that if the price raised 10 times last year, it will most likely raise 10 times this year and next. I do not believe in exponential growth line - just normal markets bull and bear cycles. Now I guess I will be asked again to leave this discussion forum that sometimes resembles more a support group . Ah grass hopper I have been through 3 of these not 1 like you youngsters have as THEIR view of a THING It has had 100000% growth since inception On LTC I have personally made 10x growth 3 times I have turned 4c into $39 & cashed out You seem to not see the big picture of what this is ..I have been working building banking and billing systems in the finance sector for many many years and your dont understand the disruptive impact of what crypto is You are going to be kicking yourself as to an oppurtunity lost but I am keen to get your views quoted for prosperity so we can all have a laugh and a giggle later down the track First of all, my opinion is not on bitcoin, strictly on its price. Second, I agree that crypto will revolutionize the finances. Just decided not to buy bitcoin atm, is all . BTW, I am not trying to write some manifesto on my personal investing philosophy. Somebody asked why the price falling without any bad news. I tried to answer as a representative of people having money put aside for high risk investments and being able to buy btc instantly, but nevertheless not buying them atm. WTF? I had been attempting to give you the benefit of the doubt in my various responses to you, and now you are talking like a fool. I do NOT usually like to preach to anyone, but your recent responses seem to merit some preaching. If you are prepared to make various investments into potentially risky asset classes, then do that with bitcoin - rather than sitting on the sidelines and getting caught up by the price... fuck the price.. This bitcoin matter is NOT a religion, so get that out of your head.. b/c if you believe that people who are investing in BTC are lured in to some kind of religious perspective, you are deluded and failing to see reality and oversimplifying based on FUD. If you have been learning about bitcoin in recent months and seriously considering bitcoin as a potential investment (rather than trolling us like some fool, like Jorge, and maybe there are a few others that fit into that category), then you should realize that you do NOT have to buy a whole bitcoin. Buy a fucking fraction of a bitcoin, such as .1BTC or some other level that is comfortable for you. If you are seriously considering the relative value of bitcoin as compared with other investments, such as penny stocks, you should at least recognize that you will learn more about bitcoin by going through the process of putting a little skin into the game and buying some small amount. If you believe that .1BTC is too much for you and you believe the price could drop more, then buy .05BTC or some smaller amount and wait it out. Maybe you will be correct and the price will drop. On the other hand, the odds seem to be that the price is NOT dropping much more and it is more likely to go up from here within the next few hours or months (we cannot know exactly when, but it seems more likely to go up rather than to go down). In sum, I am suggesting in a nice way that you just get involved a little bit more than you are, rather than seeming to preach and judge us from some sideline idiotic perspective. The farce and idiocy of Jorge and his ilk is to invest so much time into learning about bitcoin, and NOT to put a little bit of skin into the game based on some high falutin perspective that you are above bitcoin. |
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Lots of good news everyday. The next bull run will be out of this world !
Please define: "out of this world!" |
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Chinese miners still gotta sell.
asicminer is in china, right? I don't hear much about them anymore... anyways, I gotta get some sleep, so at the risk of being spammy I'll drop this link one more time. http://youtu.be/XcGh1Dex4Yo?t=1h14m39sgood night now! the price of bitcoin is highly correlated to the number of post in this thread, spam away Even when we are writing about bullshit politics, such as the role of government in the "new" bitcoin world? versus the role of libertarianism ? versus the role of anarchy? versus the role of socialism? And other irrelevant matters that we do NOT really agree or know anything about? for example ripple ? |
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Why the dump on Huobi? Can't find anything about it. Help me
Why not? I mean, nobody is asking "why the pump?", why do we need a special reason for the dump? Just basic laws of demand and supply - apparently not enough buyers atm at Huobi to support the current price. Knowing Huobi, 15 mins from now it can change dramatically again Maybe, but looking at the charts it was a significant dump. It's not common whale behavior and definitely not a smart move. Why would he exit with a market sell? There are some rumors about bad news in the upcoming weekend, but I honestly can't find anything else. Until I find more information I'll assume that he dumped... because he wanted to dump, right He may be dumping b/c he is hoping for a reaction from other exchanges, and when he does NOT get very much of a reaction, then he may decide to adjust his BTC buy/sell/hodl strategy and rethink the responsiveness of the rest of the BTC market to chinese exchanges. It may be the case that if the various chinese exchanges have become less liquid, the those chinese exchanges are going to have to adjust BTC prices downward somewhat b/c of that illiquitity? If in the future, the chinese exchanges return to a more liquid status, then BTC prices can be more closely aligned with other exchanges. In other words, the chinese exchanges may be coming to learn that their status has been downgraded and the BTC price market is finding a new comfortable downgraded equilibrium. 5-10% downgrade? |
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It's Thursday, is this just the Bitcoin Investment Trust on its weekly shopping spree?
Yeah, this time they bought ~341 BTC. Actually, I am not sure if it is bullish - they keep buying but the price stays the same. Think what would happen if they would stop buying - or start selling. I wouldn't think too much about it... hehehe. Why? They sort of have a "ticking bomb" design - you are only allowed to sell after holding for 6 months. So they may have many investor who bought high and want out, but they have to wait some time, until this 6 months will pass. You have been reading too many of Jorge's posts. What I mean is that the potential negative scenario that you are describing is NOT as highly likely as you are making it out to be. In this regard, if an investment fund is attempting to appeal to institutional investors or larger investors with a longer time horizon, the larger investors know the drill and they understand the terms of the agreement in that the investment is longer term (and NOT trading), and the investor understands the need to stick with the minimum time-period whether good or bad, and hopefully institutional investors and investment funds are sufficiently diversified in order to have varying performance of different assets that are contained within their portfolio. I am of the belief that there are trade offs, and different kinds of investments appeal to different kinds of investors. Even though some kinds of investments may NOT be suitable for a day trader, institutional investors are usually long term... or at least longer term in their choices, and 6 months is NOT a burdensome commitment for an institutional investor. I agree that institutional investors act very differently than most individual investors or people around here. But Second Market is not for institutional investors, it is for individual folks, just a bit more wealthy than average. The "first 6 month selling ban" is not a guideline, it is simply prohibited. Meaning that Second Market believed their investor would be prone to panic selling, just as the regular folks. So far, their have pretty bad record of buying high, that is why I believe they would be also prone to selling low. Not Barry fault at all, he has on influence on these decision other than this 6 months selling ban. Btw, you sound a bit if you believe I am trying to sell some agenda. I am just expressing my views, like anybody else on this forum. I am neither long or short in bit coin, and actually decided not to buy it, so I would not gain whatever happens with the price. I may have been a little accusatory in my tone; however, I did NOT mean anything personal. I was merely attempting to make the point that businesses may structure themselves in various ways in order to attract a certain kind of clientele. Whether that structure/approach is a good business strategy or NOT, we cannot always be sure. I suppose that if I was accusing you of anything, then the accusation would be that you seemed to have been, in my thinking, too critical of Second Market's business strategy, and I personally, do NOT see their business strategy as a problem, unless they were engaging in some kind of trickery (which does NOT seem to be the case). In essence, whether Second Market is attempting to appeal to institutional investors or regular individuals, you seem to be conceding that they are attempting to appeal to longer term investors rather than day traders. In my thinking, absent other variations, the targeting of longer term investors could be a good marketing strategy for second market, as a business, and it can be good for bitcoin to have various options in the kinds of investments that you can make (depending upon whether you are willing and/or able to meet their conditions). In the end, it seems that we do NOT really disagree, and we are phrasing matters a little bit differently. In the end, I learned from your responses. |
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We are hearing a lot more about existing products integrating with Bitcoin, pretty exciting! All we need now is for a big company who use this type of technology to accept Bitcoin, discuss the benefits/ sales from BTC in the press and there'll be no stopping the rocket. I agree and additionally, it will be good when the big companies are providing opportunities for employees to receive all or part of their salaries in bitcoin and to be paying various venders in bitcoin. |
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It's Thursday, is this just the Bitcoin Investment Trust on its weekly shopping spree?
Yeah, this time they bought ~341 BTC. Actually, I am not sure if it is bullish - they keep buying but the price stays the same. Think what would happen if they would stop buying - or start selling. I wouldn't think too much about it... hehehe. Why? They sort of have a "ticking bomb" design - you are only allowed to sell after holding for 6 months. So they may have many investor who bought high and want out, but they have to wait some time, until this 6 months will pass. You have been reading too many of Jorge's posts. What I mean is that the potential negative scenario that you are describing is NOT as highly likely as you are making it out to be. In this regard, if an investment fund is attempting to appeal to institutional investors or larger investors with a longer time horizon, the larger investors know the drill and they understand the terms of the agreement in that the investment is longer term (and NOT trading), and the investor understands the need to stick with the minimum time-period whether good or bad, and hopefully institutional investors and investment funds are sufficiently diversified in order to have varying performance of different assets that are contained within their portfolio. I am of the belief that there are trade offs, and different kinds of investments appeal to different kinds of investors. Even though some kinds of investments may NOT be suitable for a day trader, institutional investors are usually long term... or at least longer term in their choices, and 6 months is NOT a burdensome commitment for an institutional investor. |
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It's Thursday, is this just the Bitcoin Investment Trust on its weekly shopping spree?
Yeah, this time they bought ~341 BTC. Actually, I am not sure if it is bullish - they keep buying but the price stays the same. Think what would happen if they would stop buying - or start selling. I wouldn't think too much about it... hehehe. |
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Mt. Gox was the most promising exchange ever  YES!!!!! And, it is on its way back!!!! |
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