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I think that we're missing the point here. Let's say a big pool is closing down. Will BTC fail? NO! Even 6 clients worldwide are enough to make the network running. Fraud is always possible Voodah. I'm not taking it lightly. But for BTC as we know it - it's rather rare and/or stupid for someone to try and get profit out of it.
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@Voodah &@Eleuthria:
It's not that simple as "throwing away money" IMHO. "When in doubt; follow the money". EVERYONE involved in btc business has an incentive of keeping the network going. Even if they have 1BTC or less. It's the way it's been built. So I don't think they will make anything funny. There's profit for them too. Either from their mining percentage, or from their margin via "your btc NOW" vs "possible profitability".
BTW: Great job with btcguild. Keep it up.
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Another way to say "cool it guys?"  Pretty! |
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what does organofcoti say about this? i highly doubt its 100% true
Voodah, it's just "luck". They're legit and never cheated.
I sincerely hope both of you guys are right..! I don't really enjoy this at all, and know, calling this out can generate a certain level of hatred by some. Still, I think we need more transparency. Trust me it's only luck I have few Ghs on BTC guild and my income today is 30% more than it is normal on this diff. +1 Same here. Ah this brings back memories when we had same problem with deepbit. Anyone knows why deepbit stayed on getwork and is not upgrading it just stayed as it was years ago and still mining? If you're mining on GPU then I think it's your only choice. I still have a 6950 mining on them |
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Meanwhile we have some movement on Gox.
p2pool looks very interesting and something we should all be involved in to help safeguard the integrity of btc. When I first found out about btc I assumed mining was similar to the old SETI program you could run in the background on your computer to help find ET life out there. I was pretty disappointed when I realised it took investment to participate effectively. I really liked the idea of it being able to withstand any kind of onslaught due to the multitude of miners all around the world. I suppose Satoshi didn't anticipate large dominant mining pools, pity something can't be written in so individual, solo miners could contribute in some meaningful way.
Used to participate at 17orbust back in 2000's. Sierpinski's problem pointed out a great deal of math geekiness back then plus the awesomeness of distributed computing. When I got involved into BTC mining I was wondering "where's all that computing power going". Well. Try explaining this to anybody that's not familiar with distributed computing / math / cryptography and good luck with it. I agree with you about letting small players in. But; did you consider that even 1Ghs might be able to pay for itself in the (not so distant) future? It's not about the power. It's about the price. We'll see. I like experimenting. I like science. That's why I am here. |
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what does organofcoti say about this? i highly doubt its 100% true
Voodah, it's just "luck". They're legit and never cheated.
I sincerely hope both of you guys are right..! I don't really enjoy this at all, and know, calling this out can generate a certain level of hatred by some. Still, I think we need more transparency. Trust me it's only luck I have few Ghs on BTC guild and my income today is 30% more than it is normal on this diff. +1 Same here. |
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This is new even for this very thread. Trolling to another level. You people are hilarious... seriously? Do you remember the time that Btcguild was near 50%? There were people that accusing them for attacking the network, so they cut off all their "slow" connections in order to discourage people mining for them. They're in the game because they EARN from it. They don't have to go the other side to make the system fail. Nor it's clever. Seriously what are you drinking? |
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Voodah, it's just "luck". They're legit and never cheated.
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ChartBuddy, what's that white outline on your graphs?
Jack the Reaper I presume. Just regular FAD I guess... |
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It's official. It's 2014 in Greece and I AM DRUNK! Happy new Year! I'm in the same timezone  Cheers! P.S.: Have fun with the EU-Presidency for the next 6 months  (German Spiegel headline: "Of all nations Greece now has the EU presidency" - an idiotic bash article...) EU has the worst politicians EVER. All the wrong people to all the wrong places. No arguments, just random movements here and there to save their precious "unification". Where's Valéry Giscard d'Estaing, Helmut Kohl, Konstantinos Karamanlis... those were politicians with balls. What we have here is their cheap imitations. Employees of big corporations, that play it "Leaders" in their monopoly games. I just hope it falls apart in pieces. If it's not bitcoin; let it be something else, I really don't give a rat's ass' shit. I just want better people governing. Not those clowns. Maybe it's because I'm drunk, but I surely won't take back even a piece of what I've wrote. Good night people. Happy new year. Cya tomorrow, hopefully with not to much hangover. |
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It's official. It's 2014 in Greece and I AM DRUNK!  |
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One and a half hour for the New Year in Greece. Twaz quite a year. Off to get drunk and stuff. Cheers everybody!
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Does this make us all honorary members of the illuminati? If so that would be awesome! Sign me up. OMG ROFL I just received this email... Apparently Satoshi is a high ranking member of the illuminati! Or is the Illuminati! This is a paid message from a third party. Trade of the Week is not affiliated with and does not endorse any publicly traded companies or products mentioned below. Please read all disclaimers. Dear concerned citizen, The dark years of Illuminati are over. Once on the brink of extinction, the secret society has powerfully re-emerged in the United States. In fact, it now wields more power than ever. As founder of a major publication, Wall Street Daily, I can say the following with absolute conviction.... Illuminati was behind every consequential wealth event of the past year. Its biggest coup was the emergence of bitcoin. (Crypto-currencies have always been the classic signature of Illuminati.)Please be warned... Illuminati's next bombshell will be even bigger. It's scheduled to hit America in January. While the public desperately waits for the dust to settle... Illuminati members will get even richer. To access the full Illuminati Report, including details of its next bombshell, click the link below. Yes, I'd like to access the Illuminati Report. Happy New Year, Robert Williams Founder, Wall Street Daily Wall Street Daily, LLC., 105 West Monument Street, Baltimore, MD 21201 This is a paid message from a third party. Trade of the Week is not affiliated with and does not endorse any publicly traded companies or products mentioned above. Please read all disclaimers. If you have any questions concerning this third party or their product, please contact the third party at the address above. View our Privacy Policy and Terms of Use. Copyright 2001-2013 Trade of the Week. All rights reserved. Please note that we are not a registered investment firm or broker/dealer. Readers are advised that the material contained herein should be used solely for informational purposes. We urge you to always conduct your own research and due diligence and obtain professional advice before making any investment decision. We will not be liable for any loss or damage caused by a reader's reliance on information obtained in this email or on our web site. Our readers are solely responsible for their own investment decisions. All information contained in this email should be independently verified with the companies mentioned. We do not endorse the product or companies mentioned in this announcement and we have not independently reviewed the validity of the claims or statements contained in this announcement. Furthermore, we are not responsible for errors or omissions of the content of this email. Go here to get more information from http://www.TradeofWeek.com Contact Information ProfitableTrading, LLC, 4601 Spicewood Springs Rd, Building 3, Suite 100, Austin TX 78759 To Unsubscribe You may choose to stop receiving special offers from Trade of the Week at any time. *** Important *** If you unsubscribe from these special offers, then you may also be unsubscribed from our Trade of the Week newsletter. To no longer receive these special offers, click here. Ah, THAT explains it... Robert Williams? He's a singer in Greece! Seriously WTF??? |
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mind you the bitcoin foundation would love it, say it legitimized bitcoin. i think they have no reason to live if they don't file an anti-trust action against APPL.
Picking an anti-trust fight with AAPL? Even if fun to watch it would sink them completely and gain us very little. Bitcoin doesn't need AAPL as much as AAPL needs bitcoin. Let them be the late adopters. Bitcoin is the means; ie: the protocol, on which applications run; like messages/monetary transactions and probably many more to come in the future. Or if you prefer "the river" that many "boats" will be floating. Whether a company (no matter how big or small) decides to (or not to) incorporate it to their marketing philosophy it's really their call. Eric Schmidt from Google yesterday said in an interview that " We should have been into social networking earlier". Maybe it's Apple's turn to pay (or not) the price for not getting into bitcoin. This new year will really be a huge turn for Bitcoin. I'm not sure if it's $10000 or $10 by this time next year; but what I have to stand for is this: It's a brand new innovative tech that it's similar to no other. The thing we have to answer to ourselves is: Is the world ready for such a technology? Only time will tell.  |
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Slow NYE. Bot's apocalypse in all exchanges...  Happy new year everyone. It's been a great one for us bitcoiners. Let's hope 2014 will be even better. Love peace and prosperity to all of you and your beloved ones. |
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i think an e.u. directive requiring registration of bitcoin addresses to a chartered financial institution would really shake things up. it wouldn't need to be legit, just so long as it was picked up by bloomberg and maybe reuters. pray god that it doesn't happen now or i will be blamed.
Where did this come from? Did you make it up? No need to do it; if someone wants to have your IP; one might as well trace it if you just traded once... (if you don't use anonymity s/w that is) http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/193/how-do-i-see-the-ip-address-of-a-bitcoin-transaction |
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If major retailers, such as Overstock.com, intend to immediately convert bitcoins to fiat, then is spending bitcoins equivalent to selling on an exchange? If so, there is little incentive to spend because it adversely impacts your investment, unless sufficient new fiat is flowing into the exchanges to offset your bitcoin purchases. 2014 could turn out to be a very bad year for bulls if too many large merchants decide to accept bitcoin.  Isn't what BitPay does with its BTC more important then what Overstock does with it? Or maybe we can start a whole new group of activists who support merchants who don't instantly covert their BTC to fiat at the POS. Well, the point is that more merchants accepting bitcoin is typically viewed as bullish. I disagree if the merchants intend to immediately convert back to fiat. There's an article on this... http://www.businessinsider.com/retailers-warm-up-to-bitcoin-2013-12 |
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If traders are not exploiting defects in the trading system itself (which is actually a "feature" on the NYSE where elite participants have better access than everyone else) then there really is no argument. A manipulator that can influence the market because he has more coins or fiat than other's is not reason to cry foul. It is also a misnomer to think a large trader negatively affects the smaller; the smaller must set his mind to figuring out what the big trader is doing and to front run him. The big trader is handicapped by his size and will move slower, unravel trades over longer time frames, thus he is the shark that suffers the irritation of a thousand sucker-fish. Of course he accepts this as long as he can get his fill.
This said, faking volume is perhaps fairly nefarious, stopping this however is almost impossible as long as the multiple accounts are under different names and different IP addresses. The exchange would have a very hard time proving this beyond being able to provide "circumstantial evidence" of suspicious trades.
VERY well put. Totally agree. (THIS FORUM NEEDS A LIKE/THANKS BUTTON!) |
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Interesting debate guys regarding market manipulation. I think aminorex's definition below is a good one (regardless of one's views on the ethics of such an activity): Market manipulation is generally understood to mean trading for purposes of effecting a price impact, not otherwise in the interest of the trader. For example, sham sales, in which the counterparties have pooled resources, or one party takes both roles, so that transactions occur at their preferred prices, can be used to create a trap for speculators, who trade at prices not determined by market forces, but by the collusion of the manipulator(s).
According to this definition, I believe that market manipulation is indeed happening. The next question is "is this wrong"? vdcc says this is fraud: No violence, but fraud yes. If you pump/dump coins (or even fake volume and trades) for financial gain, then you are defrauding honest traders.
I'm not convinced, but I'd like to hear further arguments. Here's what I think is fraud: A whale calls up the owner of an exchange and, says "I want to put up a 5,000 BTC ask wall to scare the fish into selling to me for cheaper, but I don't actually want to risk a bigger whale buying all my coins. Can I pay you 50 BTC to ensure that if someone tries to buy my wall that your trading engine encounters 'technical difficulties'?" If the owner agrees, this is fraud and we have laws that would apply in such a situation. But if two colluding whales buy and sell to each other on the open market to try and make it appear there is more volume at a price higher or lower than what they believe to be the market price, then could not one argue that this is simply "strategy"? Is not everyone still playing by the same rules? That's pretty much the way I see it. It's our job to decipher fake volume. This isn't the stock market. BTC exchanges is an entirely different monster. However are there actually any laws that apply to these kinds of exchanges? Any precedent? +1 And... laws? no there are not. It's "far west" out there. On the other hand let's not forget one significant parameter; people with a huge volume can do their business OUTSIDE of the exchanges. Think about it. What somebody who has a LOT of coins wants? More coins or more exchange value? FWIW: I believe too that the price is manipulated and it's heading north FOR A REASON! That's why I'm hodling. Maybe I'm right, but as well I may be left too... EDIT1: oda.krell SERIOUSLY WTF? EDIT2: oda.krell PHEWWW read it! Nice post |
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