Yes, I have been monitoring auction threads keep track of share transfers. Please do all bidding and payment information in this thread. I am using the block chain to settle any disputes, so by keeping all transactions for shares public, I am protecting both the buyer and the seller. Only use an address you can sign with.  |
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1 minute left, I can hardly contain myself.
/sarcasm
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Zomg, FTC is on life support. FYP |
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Its the old lady with the soldering iron from BFL.
She stole BFLs schematics and had her grandson, who happens to be an electrical engineer, fix the power problems.
She then spent 24 hours assembling them by herself with a soldering iron.
24 hours you say??? Yeah shes a pro.
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Hi 420,
I like this idea too, however getting 100 Bitcoiners in one place that are all willing to do this would be somewhat challenging. Perhaps the only place this could happen is at the Bitcoin conference next weekend. Are you going? I wouldn't mind trying to get together some people to go do this and raise awareness. All media outlets should be notified beforehand too so that it gets as much press exposure as possible.
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And if everything accepted bitcoins and nobody paid taxes, how would you pay the state to provide services like: police, emergency services, infrastructure, public services, public buildings, etc?
And jails, to hold scum like limitless.  Everyone would have to pay for jails if they want to be protected from criminals, other wise they will be exiled to Criminal Island.  Just joking.. obviously there are social problems that this could possibly cause, but I believe there will always be some way to work these issues out other than the current tax system. Just because taxes have been done like they have been for years, it doesn't mean that it's not subject to change. |
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physical cryptocurrencies. "Its like fiat except you pay 40% just to hold it in your hand"
With the way Litecoin prices are rising, I expect the cost of each coin to be less than 40% of its value, especially on the 50 LTC denomination. Prices will be tied to the US dollar, they will change with the market. As Litecoin gains value, you will be able to buy them for less and less Litecoins. The prices in the picture I posted were calculated when LTC was about $2.55 I think. Already today they would be cheaper than what I originally stated, it will be fluid though and change with the market price. I cannot control the market price of LTC/usd and what is costs to design, make, assemble, and sell them (since I have to pay for most of this proccess with FIAT.) |
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Yeah I understand. But how would the state function then?
Schools, hospitals, police, emergency units, parks, roads EVERYTHING is paid for with tax money.
How would this work if bitcoin is not to be regulated?
That's the thing, the Government would have to figure that out.. this cannot be stopped if implemented. They would have to take down the Bitcoin network. If everyone started using Bitcoins for everyday transactions, the Government would be cut out of all revenue streams. Like I said earlier, if this were to get really popular, to pay for schools, hospitals, police, emergency units, parks, roads, etc., people would have to pay for each government service they want, instead of it just automatically coming out of taxes.An added benefit is people would not have to pay for services they don't want and wars they don't want to fight. |
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And this is the problem man!
If more and more people commit tax evasion like this, someone is bound to make it illegal.
And if it's going to be illegal, exchanges will be shut down.
And guess what? No more tax evasion ^_^
You are so focused on FIAT.... the world does not have to revolve around FIAT. There is no need for exchanges if you can spend Bitcoin everywhere. |
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In order for that to happen, you'd have to tax it m8 Otherwise tax evasion can happen through the use of bitcoin which won't be accepted by any government. Of course, once it's taxed, it has to be regulated. And this is against all that bitcoin stands for.. :-s But a middle way will probably be found. You think tax evasion is not already happening with Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies? ZeroCoin would make it even easier. The government would have to change their whole tax infrastructure. Someone would have to pay for each government service they would like to receive. This is peer to peer, to stop ZeroCoin they would have to kill Bitcoin itself, and with TOR-like services I don't see how it could be stopped considering if Bitcoin was widely accepted. |
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And if everything accepted bitcoins and nobody paid taxes, how would you pay the state to provide services like: police, emergency services, infrastructure, public services, public buildings, etc?
This is a very libertarianish idea, but it's simple- each person chooses whether they want to have those services. If they do, then they have to pay for them. If they don't, then they won't get the services and don't have to pay for them. |
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What about people that don't have computers? How do you expect them to pay? ^_^
And every national bank has a gold reserve man. No economy classes ?
They can use FIAT. Imagine the guy at the cash register saying "cash, debit, credit, or Bitcoin?"  |
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Yes but FIAT currency has gold as backup.
Bitcoin has FIAT currency as backup.
Something to report to.
Bitcoin would be worthless without the dollar.
So in order for an exchange to actually work, one would have to exchange these bitcoins into stuff that actually have value, like gold or fiat currency.
Either that, or simply just convert all currency to bitcoins, which would be impossible in the next 50-100 years.
In order for bitcoin to have value, people need to offer services and goods in exchange for bitcoins. Then they need to actually be able to do something with those bitcoins in order to get value out of them (i.e. exchange them for money so they can pay their bills/food/etc.).
Do you see my point?
You can have as many exchanges as you'd like. If it's illegal you won't be able to convert the bitcoins to currency. Which means they would be worthless, as FIAT is what gives everything value.
So the bitcoin idea is fundamentally flawed. Unless it can be taxed.
If every store, everybody, and everything accepted Bitcoin, then there would be no need for FIAT. It's value would still be upheld by the free market and everyone could do with Bitcoin anything they could ever wish to do with FIAT. Bitcoin is only going to get more and more adopted, its popularity is growing at an exponential rate. Also, since 1971 the dollar is no longer backed by gold or silver. |
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Which leads us to the fundamental problem.
Inability to pay taxes means the whole economical system goes down.
No taxes = no economy. It's basic. A state, a government cannot function without taxes, they are essential for a countrys development.
And because you can't tax zerocoin, most probably governments will outlaw any legal transactions with zerocoins. So exchanges will not be able to trade these coins legally. They will still be used, but their value would be almost 0.
See my point? Which is also where bitcoin is heading if it can't be taxed. If bitcoin is to be universally adopted, it would have to be regulated.
Which kinda sucks. Don't get me wrong, I don't like the idea.
You bring up some valid points about taxes, however I think you overestimate the Governments control if this were to be implemented into Bitcoin. Also, many people feel that the Government wastes our tax dollars on unnecessary policies, this would enable us the people to take back financial control of our government, a truly democratic financial model. Simply make each person pay for what services they need or want. If they don't want protection from the police, they don't have to pay for it. If they don't want to fund a war across the ocean, they don't have to pay for it, etc. The TOR network for example would be a prime place to have a ZeroCoin/Bitcoin exchange. Even though most tax system run on the honor system, the Government cannot tax you for an amount if they don't know how much it is or who owns it- ZeroCoin makes transactions completely anonymous. As long as the Bitcoin network is safe, then this idea could work if someone was to never exchange into FIAT and just buy things with their Bitcoins. I imagine there will be many many places that accept Bitcoins in about 10 years. |
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If you convert BTC into USD, and deposit it into your bank account, you better claim it on your taxes.
Sure, I agree you should always pay taxes on income. However, as Bitcoin becomes more accepted at different stores and sites, doing Bitcoin business transactions that do not involve FIAT would be impossible to trace by the Government with ZeroCoin implemented. |
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Also, I wanted to mention that as Bitcoin gets more and more popular, the more Governments are going to want to get involved. Let's face it the block chain is not completely anonymous. There is a paper trail- an account ledger for every address and transaction. Making cryptocoins more anonymous would help to avoid Government intrusion. Also, this will be backed by ASICs making the network really secure.
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This is one of the most innovative merge mined / ALT coin ideas IMO, it's a shame there isn't a thread here on the ALT subforum about it. It is an idea of a merge mined SHA-256 coin that truly adds anonymity to the Bitcoin network. Quote:"Abstract—Bitcoin is the first e-cash system to see widespread adoption. While Bitcoin offers the potential for new types of financial interaction, it has significant limitations regarding privacy. Specifically, because the Bitcoin transaction log is completely public, users’ privacy is protected only through the use of pseudonyms. In this paper we propose Zerocoin, a cryptographic extension to Bitcoin that augments the protocol to allow for fully anonymous currency transactions. Our system uses standard cryptographic assumptions and does not introduce new trusted parties or otherwise change the security model of Bitcoin. We detail Zerocoin’s cryptographic construction, its integration into Bitcoin, and examine its performance both in terms of computation and impact on the Bitcoin protocol." Read more here: http://spar.isi.jhu.edu/~mgreen/ZerocoinOakland.pdfI am going to go on record on saying that this is going to be the new best ALT currency, this is true innovation. They aren't just changing a couple parameters of existing coins. They are actually improving Bitcoin by making it more Anonymous, while creating a new coin at the same time. This has the possibility of blowing most other ALTs out of the water in terms of value. The silk road/bmr/etc. types are going to love this and also libertarians like myself. I just found out about this today- I saw it on the schedule for the Bitcoin conference and I can't wait to hear more about it. PS: I did not write the white paper and have no affiliation with this the guys that did- I just think it is really neat. |
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I'll be there.. I'm definitely down to meetup with some peeps, hang out, and talk Bitcoin/alt coins.
I'm looking forward to it! I will be staying at Four Points by Sheraton, it seems that the hotels in the immediate are of the conference center is booked, but the Sheraton looks to only be about a block away.
Cheers,
Ch
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I can't wait for a new ALT coin to come out that is truly innovative. I will support it the best I can.
People say I only say good things about Bitcoin and Litecoin, but that is simply because all of the new ALT coins are scam coins/pump and dumps and/or only changed a few parameters from existing coins.
I'm not going to support any copy cat chains, but when something truly innovative comes out, I will be the first to adopt it.
It's time for ALT coins to innovate or be left in the dust and soon forgotten.
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