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3001  Other / Politics & Society / Re: War on ISIS: Can we even win? on: July 23, 2015, 02:24:02 PM
You can't say that guerrilla tactics are conventional. Guerilla warfare by definition is unconventional and irregular fighting. ...
not any more...

....It makes zero practical difference if some Muslims want to chatter about "They are not True Islam," that's exactly the sectarian divides that have made the Middle East such a ridiculous back and forth battleground for centuries.  Rather than the solution, that's the problem.

What we are really talking about at the core here, is the exporting of the basic Crazy of the middle east to the rest of the world.

I agree fully with the first part of your statement ("I don't like the shape of the world I see evolving as a result of Muslims, and the worlds response to Muslims.  It makes zero practical difference if this is the result of 33% of muslims or 0.1%"), but I'm still not convinced that the peaceful Muslims necessarily share the burden of the violent ones just by association. (One of the reasons I asked initially was to see if anyone had any good arguments to support the notion that I haven't heard.)

We are essentially having the same debate in America right now: Dylan Roof's murder of 9 black church members has made guilty by association any person who wants to display the Confederate Flag. Because Roof came from southern culture and used the flag in his hate propaganda, anyone displaying that flag is now judged to be guilty of the same hate by association. The question at hand then is do you think 'southern culture' as it is represented by those who find the Confederate Flag to be a symbol of heritage should bear the burden of Roof's violent actions as well?

Re "peaceful Muslims" I think it's just total BS.  Look back at these threads for the evidence.  What you'll find is the likes of "Islam is peace and Love" then on questioning "Well of course except for Evil Zion" or "Except for stoning adulterers that's GOOD" and "Except for punishing gays" and "Except for cutting off hands and feet" and "Evil Jews did 911", or "Except for Great Satan, the USA."  You'll find so much totally contradictory crap it makes your head spin.  There is zero uniform and internally consistent message of "peace and love."  Zero.

Internal inconsistency lays the lie to your question of which you seek to be convinced (bolded) as a false overly broad generalization of the premise of a logical argument.


Re Confederate Flag.

No, you are parroting the top down disseminated liberal mis framing of the issue.

Who owns the Confederate Flag and it's heritage is the Democratic party and it's members.  Notice they NEVER ADMIT THIS.  NEVER.  Rather they push the lie it's the Eeeevvvoolll REupblicans.  Yeah, bullshit.

Confess up to it, please.




First, I said "southern culture." I didn't name conservative, liberal, democrat or republican. If you associate "southern culture" to only be republicans, then that's your interpretation of it. I find it possible democrats and republicans can equally identify with a southern heritage. That doesn't answer the question though. My assumption is you purposely attempted to spin to avoid owning your hypocrisy.
3002  Other / Politics & Society / Re: POLL - Do you believe in last 2 decades it has been warming? on: July 23, 2015, 02:19:46 PM
From https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/180209-2015-07-21-satellites-earth-is-nearly-in-its-22nd-year-without-global.htm.

----------Quote

Here is the summary:

After September of this year, the Earth will be entering its 22nd year without a statistically significant warming trend, according to satellite-derived temperature data.

Since September 1994, University of Alabama in Huntsville's satellite temperature data has shown no statistically significant global warming trend. For over 20 years there's been no warming trend apparent in the satellite records and will soon be entering into year 22 with no warming trend apparent in satellite data — which examines the lowest few miles of the Earth's atmosphere.

Satellite data from the Remote Sensing Systems (RSS) group also shows a prolonged "hiatus" in global warming.

----------End Quote

Smiley

Yes, this is the question of the poll.

On the one hand, you have satellite sensors which show no warming.

On the other hand, you have land based sensors which do appear to show warming.

LOL...I find it rather interesting.  It's a scientific controversy really.  But answers can and will be based on personal experience, other evidence, political beliefs, etc.  Answer anyway you feel is correct.

I find personal anecdotes to be unconvincing ('when I was little, it was never this hot,' etc.). These offer no real value because of how unreliable the information is. Memory is notoriously faulty, not to mention perception bias, confirmation bias, etc. which can alter how memories are remembered. It seems to me it's best to stick with data when making any case, and at least the satellite data is still data, even if some people take issue with its accuracy or the method in which it is gathered. Anecdotes are not data that can be quantified and measured, and offer no real value to the topic.
3003  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do islam hates people? on: July 22, 2015, 04:46:52 PM
.....

But even if we just accept the logical fallacy, it doesn't offer any value to the question of moral standing of the Brits who castrated him. Computers existing is not proof that Britain was morally superior for brutalizing him but stopping short of actually murdering him. I take the position that any society that would go so far to brutally suppress someone has no moral standing on the issue whatsoever. It's possible to have no moral standing and there yet be more brutal actions you could have taken, but there's no moral redemption for being slightly less brutal. And Turing's case is even more remarkable because he was an undisputed war hero. Surely if there was someone to be exempted from prosecution, it would be a war hero. The fact that he was not underscores my point on moral standing.

You still don't understand it at all.

Turing was at the center of Allied SPYING.  He was instrumental in many, many people being killed (and many not getting killed.)

Think Coventry.  If that doesn't mean anything, go look it up.  Consider how many had loved ones in Coventry that might have hated Turing for what he did.  Many, many, MANY examples like that.

Normal rules - in particular your SJW modern view - have little relation in such a situation let alone in the past.

Nothing here refutes my original assertion re: moral standing, or supports your original assertion that the treatment of Turing after the war could be described as one of "tolerance and appreciation for a great many odd types of people." If you intended your post to counter mine or support yours, please explain further.
3004  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do islam hates people? on: July 22, 2015, 04:44:38 PM
I'm making a valid point as a humanist. I'm not sure what your motivation is in obfuscation.


I am giving you the right to ask away. Why aren't you happy about me giving you permission to express yourself? Obfuscation? Nope.

 Smiley


Your premises are flawed (almost certainly intentionally) so can only be regarded as obfuscation since you're no longer contributing anything relevant to what lead you on this tangent.


I am not the one defending the rights of gays under sharia law... I am just saying they have none. I never said it was cool what happened to turing. I am saying he does not exist under sharia law.

I told you not to trust my answer and ask muslims here in this thread. You are afraid to ask, saying it is irrelevant to have the opinion of people with the knowledge of sharia law.

I know enough that I do not know enough so to feel superior to believe I am talking in the name of all muslims here, not needing a direct answer from them...




I agree they have none. Turing may have been killed instantly under Sharia Law. Or they may have used his skills to aid their war effort and then killed him after, the way Britain used his skills to help the war effort and then castrated him after they were done with him. The reason I'm not asking Muslims is because it's not relevant to my point. I concede he may have been murdered under Sharia Law, and that doesn't affect my point that Britain has no standing to claim moral superiority for castrating him for being gay.


IF
      I agree they have none.
THEN
         Turing may have been killed instantly under Sharia Law.
END

COMMENT
" Or they may have used his skills to aid their war effort and then killed him after





Congratulations on repeating what I said in another format I guess?
3005  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do Atheists hate Religion ? on: July 22, 2015, 04:32:04 PM
I don't see "action" listed as a verb anywhere in the definition.

Since the word "action" is a noun, and it is being compared to "reaction," another noun, Newtons Third Law is talking about "things," which are not verbs.

Smiley

The WORD action is a noun. Things that ARE actions, are verbs. Are you really this simple?

Actions: Running, breathing, sitting, talking, explaining to BADecker first-grade level grammar rules

Nouns: Electrons, Electrolytes, neurons, anything else you said...

When you look back at your posts, do you even realize that you've demonstrated ignorance of things they teach to 6 year-olds in order to prove your interpretation of Newton's Third Law? Does that not strike you as utterly hilarious?
3006  Other / Politics & Society / Re: “God bless Planned Parenthood” – PP Uses Abortions to Sell Baby Parts on: July 22, 2015, 04:25:26 PM
i see no problem with this. Why let fetus parts go to waste? Fetuses aren't people anyways


Not people... But have value for life for other people, ready to buy this "waste"... Illogical. Waste has no value. If it does then it is not waste. Why creating a law forbidding people from buying or selling baby body parts?

Do it openly if it is waste.




Anything can have value. Do you throw away garbage or recyclables that have no value? They have value to the companies that sort and sell it, or to the dumps that harvest methane from decomposing garbage.
3007  Other / Politics & Society / Re: “God bless Planned Parenthood” – PP Uses Abortions to Sell Baby Parts on: July 22, 2015, 04:19:31 PM



The House Energy and Commerce Committee has sent a letter to Planned Parenthood requesting Dr. Deborah Nucatola brief the committee on all of the issues she discusses in the video.




http://energycommerce.house.gov/sites/republicans.energycommerce.house.gov/files/114/Letters/20150717PPFA.pdf




These are legitimate questions that I would like to see answered, at this point, just to eliminate doubt that is being manufactured, as evidenced by the increasing hysteria displayed in the headlines being posted in an attempt to create a reality that doesn't exist.  Why are the questions coming from the House Energy and Commerce Committee though?


Another legitimate question, from a comment on youtube:

I'm a bit confused. If they don't do this, and don't sell the stuff, why did the good doctor agree to meet with folks posing as buyers looking for organs a medical biotech start up looking for research tissue?

No hysteria.




I fixed your quote to remove all the hysteria and spin and return it to reality.
3008  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Is ISIS Proof that Islam has Failed at Peace? on: July 22, 2015, 04:11:34 PM
I rather like the analogy, but still suggest you use the commonly used term "ISIS."

And if the "worst" of the two religions is respectively Westboro and ISIS, I know which this here atheist likes better.

Yeah, I would rank ISIS a million times worse. As uncouth as they are, the W.B.C. congregation is just expressing an opinion peacefully.  
I use DAESH for a few reasons. Most of my experience with them has been in the middle east and they are always called DEASH there. But the main reason is that calling them ISIS is showing support for them. In the Islamic state it is forbidden to refer to them as DAESH. The punishment for this is that "your tongue will be cut from your mouth." They hate being called DAESH because it is a play on words in Arabic. It is the acronym for ISIS, but also sound like you are saying the word meaning to trample or crush under foot. Arab culture is weird about feet and this term is considered very disrespectful. As this war plays out over the next 10-20 years I think you will see this term replacing ISIS or IS or ISIL. All of which acknowledge the existence of the Caliphate.  For me they are not a caliphate and are better described as the ones who trample everything.

Yes. And the westboro church is absolute, unequivocal and undeniable proof that Christianity is a violent, bigoted cult and nothing more. Good point OP!

Are you being facetious or serious? I can't tell if your tone is sarcastic or not.
I was being sarcastic. As pointed out above, I was referencing the logical fallacy of making a rule from one example.

Yours is a fair point, I'm actually inclined to believe in it. That is to say, I do believe that people who operate under a particular label don't speak for other groups that are not affiliated with them. It is striking though that we continue to have people this day and age that are savagely murdering in the name of religion. I suppose being from the West, where we have seemingly having advanced beyond the period of holy wars, the Middle East seems particularly anachronistic. I do wonder though how violence and religion continues to mesh. Is it violent people who seek out a religion to justify their violence, or a violent religion that seeks out violent individuals to advance its political agenda?

Interesting explanation on Daesh. I knew that they hated to be referred as it, but didn't know why.
3009  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why is there such an insurgence of flat-earthers in 2015? on: July 22, 2015, 03:56:47 PM
I've spoken up in other threads, that I think debate is great. You learn something new everyday. Though most laugh at this immediately, I find the debates going on fascinating.

There comes a time when debate is pointless. The Earth is not flat. Debate on the topic is not great, it's evidence of either stupidity, trolling, or subversion for personal gain (money, attention, notoriety; whatever your currency of choice).

There are certain topics where I wouldn't characterize debate as "great", and this is one of them. Not to say people aren't free to be stupid, but celebrating it is going too far.

As for the evidence it suggests, most of the people trying to prove the Earth is flat, are not getting any money, and are being ridiculed. I will give you trolling, it could be a reason, but I don't think it's stupidity, as they are attempting to disprove a theory that is heavily regarded. If they are going to be successful, they will have to work harder than many to come up with a proof that is accepted. You may consider a waste of time because you think they will not succeed. But I believe working for something, even if proven wrong, still teaches you something.

Also, looking at the world in ways others don't consider, well, this is how inventions are made. Just look throughout history, there are examples of inventions that were made from things that had no relation. You never know when a positive will come out of scientific work.

They are attempting to disprove a fact, not a theory that is heavily regarded. To say it as such is to criminally mischaracterize the merit of the "debate" they are trying to have. Anyone who does not accept facts is just too determined to be stupid to be salvageable. We have seen the planet from space. It is round. End of discussion.

You've been in space? Wink

To those who disbelieve the Earth is a sphere, they're obviously going to say it's a theory that the Earth is a sphere, that the images are pictures, and CGI effects, etc. You have to put yourself in the other person's shoes to see this. There's a video linked in the OP, that is a man claiming to have drawn the Earth from space for NASA, remember? Lots of people have been saying the moon landing was faked for a lot longer too.

No, I have not been to space. Cheesy  But I also don't doubt that hundreds have been, and I further don't need to thanks to the wonders of technology. This is too big of an issue to fake and keep faking for hundreds of years. All our technology and understanding of physics only works with a spherical planet. And it's verifiable for the whole world, it's not like such a huge conspiracy could be perpetrated. To believe so is to be especially removed reality. To be so ignorant of all the proof to cling to a disproven "theory" is a level of stupidity I don't need to engage. While they're free to "debate" (that word is being used as derisively as possible), it's not a delusion anyone should feel compelled to coddle because "debate is always good." No, sometimes it's just useless drivel.

Lots of people have been saying the moon landing was faked for a lot longer too.

And I wish Buzz Aldrin could punch every one of them in the face!
3010  Other / Politics & Society / Re: War on ISIS: Can we even win? on: July 22, 2015, 03:44:46 PM
This is a growing question in intelligence circles. It has really become incorrect to refer to these guys as terrorists. They do practice terror, but so do a lot of nation-states. True terrorism is practiced in an asymmetric warfare environment. When you can't win a battle you try to get the enemy to make stupid moves by making them fearful. Al-Qaeda works this way. Look at how successful they were on 9/11. We lost a few buildings and a few thousand people. It was bad, but the reaction we launched has cost us trillions, wrecked our economy, ruined some of our key alliances, and created hundreds of thousands of new Jihadis.  
We foolishly played the hand they dealt us.    

Is this what DAESH is like? Not anymore anyway. They fight conventional battles, they have nation level weapons, they have their own currencies, medical services, oil refineries, they control huge areas of land. These things are putting them on a path to statehood and in 100 years it is possible that there will still be a Caliphate in the region.

We could beat them right now, however we (USA) are not willing to do the work. It will take a draft and a force of at least 300K (500K would be better). Are you ready to go to war. Not the kid stuff we have been doing so far, but a real war with losses in the tens of thousands.

I have to disagree the some of the characterizations here. I don't think Al-Qaida's goal was all the aftermath of 9/11 (wrecked economy, alliance strain, etc.) but was a nice bonus for them. Their goal was just to kill as many people as possible and to do so as dramatically as possible.

And ISIS certainly does not fight conventional battles. Every time they try, they are routinely routed by militarily superior forces that oppose them. They fight with guerrilla tactics: car bombs, suicide bombs, anything that allows surprise attacks on heavy civilian areas before they shrink back into the surroundings. When the terror they bring forces people and government forces to flee an area, they take control of it. But in no sense is that a conventional battle.

Because of this, I question whether we could beat them right now. If we put troops on the ground again, I view it more likely we will radicalize more to their cause than defeat them first.
Disagreement and discussion is how we move forward.  Cheesy
But I do think there is some confusion about terrorism. You are correct that DAESH (ISIS) often use guerrilla tactics. However these tactics are a standard part of modern conventional warfare. Guerrillas fight in uniform and are structured into conventional units. Terrorists work in cells or even alone, do not wear uniforms, do not hold ground, and are primarily interested in pushing events to a tipping point that allows for open guerrilla warfare. I realize that this is on a spectrum and DAESH's earlier iterations used terrorism. But now they are fighting open battles and I don't see where they are losing overall.
By comparison Al-Qaeda (the base) members mostly hide in cities under fake names and focus on traditional terror tactics. I think they did expect that the U.S. would over-react and hurt themselves. That is what Bin Laden was saying as far back as the early 1990's.
Why just two days before 9/11 Ahmad Shah Massoud was assassinated by Al-Qaeda in preparation for America's expected war in Afghanistan.  These guys are no dummies. The attackers on 9/11 were doctors and engineers. They study political science and history and have vision for what they want to do. It would be great if they were just crazy and foolishly delusional. 


You can't say that guerrilla tactics are conventional. Guerilla warfare by definition is unconventional and irregular fighting. My question at this point is where are you finding information about them fighting open battles? Every time they come out in the open, they are bombed into oblivion by all the air forces targeting them. Their only asset is to remain unknown and not easily identifiable, otherwise they will be obliterated by the superior militaries targeting them. I can't imagine they have "uniforms," because if we could easily identify who is ISIS from who is a regular civilian, we wouldn't have such a hard time engaging them. There are stories of them dressing in Kurish uniforms to infiltrate an area undetected before they start fighting, but as soon as they come up against superior forces, they disintegrate out of necessity. That's not conventional fighting at all, even if it's the norm for insurgencies (which is nothing new, that's how America colonials were effective against the militarily superior British in the Revolutionary War).
3011  Other / Politics & Society / Re: War on ISIS: Can we even win? on: July 22, 2015, 03:34:22 PM
This is a growing question in intelligence circles. It has really become incorrect to refer to these guys as terrorists. They do practice terror, but so do a lot of nation-states. True terrorism is practiced in an asymmetric warfare environment. When you can't win a battle you try to get the enemy to make stupid moves by making them fearful. Al-Qaeda works this way. Look at how successful they were on 9/11. We lost a few buildings and a few thousand people. It was bad, but the reaction we launched has cost us trillions, wrecked our economy, ruined some of our key alliances, and created hundreds of thousands of new Jihadis.  
We foolishly played the hand they dealt us.    

Is this what DAESH is like? Not anymore anyway. They fight conventional battles, they have nation level weapons, they have their own currencies, medical services, oil refineries, they control huge areas of land. These things are putting them on a path to statehood and in 100 years it is possible that there will still be a Caliphate in the region.

We could beat them right now, however we (USA) are not willing to do the work. It will take a draft and a force of at least 300K (500K would be better). Are you ready to go to war. Not the kid stuff we have been doing so far, but a real war with losses in the tens of thousands.

I have to disagree the some of the characterizations here. I don't think Al-Qaida's goal was all the aftermath of 9/11 (wrecked economy, alliance strain, etc.) but was a nice bonus for them. Their goal was just to kill as many people as possible and to do so as dramatically as possible.

And ISIS certainly does not fight conventional battles. Every time they try, they are routinely routed by militarily superior forces that oppose them. They fight with guerrilla tactics: car bombs, suicide bombs, anything that allows surprise attacks on heavy civilian areas before they shrink back into the surroundings. When the terror they bring forces people and government forces to flee an area, they take control of it. But in no sense is that a conventional battle.

Because of this, I question whether we could beat them right now. If we put troops on the ground again, I view it more likely we will radicalize more to their cause than defeat them first.

I don't like the shape of the world I see evolving as a result of Muslims, and the worlds response to Muslims.  It makes zero practical difference if this is the result of 33% of muslims or 0.1%, the result is equally nasty, and equally the responsibility of Muslims, in either case.  It makes zero practical difference if some Muslims want to chatter about "They are not True Islam," that's exactly the sectarian divides that have made the Middle East such a ridiculous back and forth battleground for centuries.  Rather than the solution, that's the problem.

What we are really talking about at the core here, is the exporting of the basic Crazy of the middle east to the rest of the world.

I agree fully with the first part of your statement ("I don't like the shape of the world I see evolving as a result of Muslims, and the worlds response to Muslims.  It makes zero practical difference if this is the result of 33% of muslims or 0.1%"), but I'm still not convinced that the peaceful Muslims necessarily share the burden of the violent ones just by association. (One of the reasons I asked initially was to see if anyone had any good arguments to support the notion that I haven't heard.)

We are essentially having the same debate in America right now: Dylan Roof's murder of 9 black church members has made guilty by association any person who wants to display the Confederate Flag. Because Roof came from southern culture and used the flag in his hate propaganda, anyone displaying that flag is now judged to be guilty of the same hate by association. The question at hand then is do you think 'southern culture' as it is represented by those who find the Confederate Flag to be a symbol of heritage should bear the burden of Roof's violent actions as well?
3012  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Transgender on: July 22, 2015, 03:22:02 PM

Some of the results of Fukushima are only now being brought to light:

Mutant Flowers From Japan's Fukushima Nuclear Disaster Go Viral Online

But someday God will create a new world. Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.

Tell me how you reconcile a creator god and the fact that genetic mutations exist

Seriously?
Yes, if things were designed perfectly for a perfect world, why are some babies stillborn with their hearts outside their bodies? What kind of God plays such a cruel, physically-painful, nine month long joke on a mother?

I've already discussed this with you.

In the beginning everything was fine. Then Eve sinned and we as a human race got kicked out of the Garden of Eden. In the bible it talks about fallen angels mating with female humans and having offspring (Nephilim). In the book of Enoch it talks about how the fallen angels/Nephilim corrupted mankind even more. They also cross bred animals (which is where the dinasours may have come in to being). This was an attempt to make it so that mankind's bloodline would be mixed so that Jesus could not be born of a pure bloodline to stop evil. Because it was predicted when Eve was kicked out that her offspring (further down the line) would defeat satan (of course that offspring was Jesus Christ and he did save us).

We also have all these GMOs being introduced into our food by the governments, and drugs in the water.  

Why is it that we as a race have not had our lifetimes lengthened more that they have been after all the new tech? Why are there more food allergies today too?

It is predicted in the bible that when the end times come they will be like the days of Noah. The reason the flood happened was to save His pure blood line from evil crossbreeding (with fallen angels). Also some people, believing that they are part Nephilim are known to inbreed, could be they are trying to strengthen their angelic bloodlines.

Of course to everyone reading this, who doesn't believe in the bible this will sound ludicrous. But it's clear in the bible and the book of Encoh, that that this mix-breeding and incestual lines could happen. With that being the case they could easily lead to things like you described.

Edit: We were never supposed to "play god" and mess with our blood lines like some have.

Biblical conspiracy theories are even better than regular crackpot conspiracy theories!
3013  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Transgender on: July 21, 2015, 06:26:07 PM
I've always been amazed at how many things could easily go wrong at any moment, and we'd have chaos. Yet, instead we seem to be protected more than we ever should be  if there was no God watching over us.
We are the only gods watching over us. Let's hope we're wise and compassionate Watchers. Otherwise...

[snip for size]



^^^ Completely off topic, but this photo is a phenomenal piece of visual commentary!
3014  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Boycott German products on: July 21, 2015, 05:42:02 PM
People will keep consuming german products because they are simply objectively good... a german car is a work of art, compared to the piece of trash scams you can buy in other countries. I don't think people is going to care about some philosophical thoughts before buying a car, they will want a good car for their money. That's sadly how it is.

I just bought food from lidl and a new adidas track suit  Smiley

I can boycott any car from Germany since I don't have money to buy it, but not for adidas. I like its quality and I dont care what country adidas is. I think there is no connection between government of Germany with its companies in Greek crisis.


What if this attempt to boycott German goods just created more demand for them to spite the people who haven't yet learned the consequences of spending more than they can afford and are looking for a scapegoat?
3015  Other / Politics & Society / Re: War on ISIS: Can we even win? on: July 21, 2015, 05:35:08 PM
This is a growing question in intelligence circles. It has really become incorrect to refer to these guys as terrorists. They do practice terror, but so do a lot of nation-states. True terrorism is practiced in an asymmetric warfare environment. When you can't win a battle you try to get the enemy to make stupid moves by making them fearful. Al-Qaeda works this way. Look at how successful they were on 9/11. We lost a few buildings and a few thousand people. It was bad, but the reaction we launched has cost us trillions, wrecked our economy, ruined some of our key alliances, and created hundreds of thousands of new Jihadis.  
We foolishly played the hand they dealt us.    

Is this what DAESH is like? Not anymore anyway. They fight conventional battles, they have nation level weapons, they have their own currencies, medical services, oil refineries, they control huge areas of land. These things are putting them on a path to statehood and in 100 years it is possible that there will still be a Caliphate in the region.

We could beat them right now, however we (USA) are not willing to do the work. It will take a draft and a force of at least 300K (500K would be better). Are you ready to go to war. Not the kid stuff we have been doing so far, but a real war with losses in the tens of thousands.

I have to disagree the some of the characterizations here. I don't think Al-Qaida's goal was all the aftermath of 9/11 (wrecked economy, alliance strain, etc.) but was a nice bonus for them. Their goal was just to kill as many people as possible and to do so as dramatically as possible.

And ISIS certainly does not fight conventional battles. Every time they try, they are routinely routed by militarily superior forces that oppose them. They fight with guerrilla tactics: car bombs, suicide bombs, anything that allows surprise attacks on heavy civilian areas before they shrink back into the surroundings. When the terror they bring forces people and government forces to flee an area, they take control of it. But in no sense is that a conventional battle.

Because of this, I question whether we could beat them right now. If we put troops on the ground again, I view it more likely we will radicalize more to their cause than defeat them first.
3016  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Boycott German products on: July 21, 2015, 04:50:20 PM
UN driven by US now?  obviously it is not the fact. The fact  is that China and Russia use their VETO so often to make right thing wrong.

US just let China and Russia do what they want in case they don't disrupt US business.

Number of resolutions vetoed by each of the five permanent members of the Security Council between 1946 and 2007




Most recent event China and Russia exercised their veto power
July 8, 2015: Russia vetoed a resolution condemning the Srebrenica massacre as a genocide
May 22, 2014: China and Russia vetoed a resolution condemning the state of Syria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_veto_power

Nothing wrong with that veto imo.
 

This chart actually shows that the US vetoes the most in the contemporary period, with Russia and China hardly vetoing anything in comparison.
3017  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why is there such an insurgence of flat-earthers in 2015? on: July 21, 2015, 04:34:56 PM
I've spoken up in other threads, that I think debate is great. You learn something new everyday. Though most laugh at this immediately, I find the debates going on fascinating.

There comes a time when debate is pointless. The Earth is not flat. Debate on the topic is not great, it's evidence of either stupidity, trolling, or subversion for personal gain (money, attention, notoriety; whatever your currency of choice).

There are certain topics where I wouldn't characterize debate as "great", and this is one of them. Not to say people aren't free to be stupid, but celebrating it is going too far.

As for the evidence it suggests, most of the people trying to prove the Earth is flat, are not getting any money, and are being ridiculed. I will give you trolling, it could be a reason, but I don't think it's stupidity, as they are attempting to disprove a theory that is heavily regarded. If they are going to be successful, they will have to work harder than many to come up with a proof that is accepted. You may consider a waste of time because you think they will not succeed. But I believe working for something, even if proven wrong, still teaches you something.

Also, looking at the world in ways others don't consider, well, this is how inventions are made. Just look throughout history, there are examples of inventions that were made from things that had no relation. You never know when a positive will come out of scientific work.

They are attempting to disprove a fact, not a theory that is heavily regarded. To say it as such is to criminally mischaracterize the merit of the "debate" they are trying to have. Anyone who does not accept facts is just too determined to be stupid to be salvageable. We have seen the planet from space. It is round. End of discussion.
3018  Other / Politics & Society / Re: ISIS' Image Problem? on: July 21, 2015, 04:17:20 PM
I don't think that this news is reliable. For long, the ISIS has used this type of gory and graphic videos to recruit psychopaths and mental patients from around the world. If they stop publishing these videos on their Twitter and YouTube accounts, then their recruitment drive will take a severe hit. And right now, they can't afford to do the same.

It comes publicly from their leader. Whether or not it will prove popular with the whole organization and be respected is another matter.
3019  Other / Politics & Society / War on ISIS: Can we even win? on: July 21, 2015, 04:12:32 PM
Some very interesting ideas in this article:  http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/isis-transforming-into-functioning-state-that-uses-terror-as-tool/ar-AAdgIOq?ocid=DELLDHP

Here are some highlights I found most interesting, though I recommend the whole article.

ISIS Transforming Into Functioning State That Uses Terror as Tool

...

While no one is predicting that the Islamic State will become steward of an accountable, functioning state anytime soon, the group is putting in place the kinds of measures associated with governance: issuing identification cards for residents, promulgating fishing guidelines to preserve stocks, requiring that cars carry tool kits for emergencies.

That transition may demand that the West rethink its military-first approach to combating the group.

“I think that there is no question that the way to look at it is as a revolutionary state-building organization,” said Stephen M. Walt, a professor of international affairs at the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard. He is one of a small but growing group of experts who are challenging the conventional wisdom about the Islamic State: that its evil ensures its eventual destruction.

In a recent essay in Foreign Policy magazine — “What Should We Do if the Islamic State Wins?” — Mr. Walt argued that the Islamic State could indeed prevail in the face of a modest, American-led military campaign that has been going for almost a year and still left the group in control of large areas of Iraq and Syria.

He wrote, “an Islamic State victory would mean that the group retained power in the areas it now controls and successfully defied outside efforts to ‘degrade and destroy’ it.”

He added that now, after almost a year of American airstrikes on the group, it is becoming clear that “only a large-scale foreign intervention is likely to roll back and ultimately eliminate the Islamic State.”

...

Under the Islamic State, he said, life can be brutal, but at least it seems more stable for those who can avoid crossing the group’s leaders. “Here they are implementing God’s regulations,” he said. “The killer is killed. The adulterer is stoned. The thief’s hands are cut.”

A similar sentiment helped the Taliban consolidate power two decades ago in Afghanistan: While the Taliban were feared, and their justice was often brutal, they were also respected by many Afghans for standing against corruption and chaos — and they remained firmly in control until the American invasion in 2001.

John E. McLaughlin, who was deputy director of the C.I.A. from 2000 to 2004, said he was recently at a dinner party in Washington at the home of an Australian diplomat when the discussion turned to the threat of the Islamic State.

“It suddenly just occurred to me, if you add everything up, that these guys could win,” he said. It was a controversial notion, he explained, because the group’s graphic brutality, which it showcases to the world in gory videos released through social media, has fed a sense that its demise is inevitable because it is so evil.

“Evil isn’t always defeated,” he said.


...

Drawing on parallels from history, experts say, the group’s violence can be seen in a different light. Mr. Walt mentioned the guillotine of the French Revolution, and the atrocities of the Bolshevik Revolution in Russia and the Communist one in China — imperfect analogies, to be sure, but ones that underscored the violence and oppression that can precede creation of a revolutionary state.

“At the time, these movements were regarded as completely beyond the pale and a threat to international order,” he said.

Mr. McLaughlin pointed to Hezbollah, the Lebanese militant organization seen as a terrorist group in the eyes of the West and now a legitimate political player, and also reached back centuries to the brutality of English royalty.

“If you look at what the English kings did to consolidate their territories in the 14th and 15th centuries,” he said, “they were not only beheading people but disemboweling them.”

William McCants, the director of the Project on U.S. Relations With the Islamic World at the Brookings Institution in Washington, and an expert on the evolution of the Islamic State, said the historical analogies are accurate.

“We in the West have bought into this idea that insurgency and counterinsurgency is a battle for hearts and minds,” he said. “We forget how many states have been established through brutality.”


...

Inside Islamic State territory, the group’s violence is regarded differently than it is in the West. In the communities it controls, citizens have already grown inured to violence. In Iraq, citizens have lived with war for more than a decade, including the days of sectarian civil war when a signature act of some Shiite militias was to drill the heads of Sunnis. And before that, they lived under the police state thuggery and corruption of Saddam Hussein’s Baath Party.

Now there is a limited sense of order, and cleaner streets, a low bar, perhaps, but a reality amid years of war and anarchy. Hassan Hassan, an analyst who has studied the Islamic State and a co-author of a book on the group, said that on the ground there is “a logic of savagery.” If people avoid any sign of dissent, he said, they can largely go about their lives.

“Not happily,” he said, “but they can live at peace.”

He added, “They feel like there is a functioning state.”


I think this article was so interesting to me because it challenges some notions on the topic which I held as invariably true:

1. Because ISIS is so brutal, their defeat is inevitable because the world will not tolerate their evil.

2. Due to the brutal nature of ISIS, their rule cannot be an improvement over the previous governments in the minds of the people, even if those government were hopelessly corrupt.

3. ISIS rule cannot provide stability or peace for the populace.

4. ISIS brutality is unprecedented in the attempted establishment of a state.
3020  Other / Politics & Society / Re: POLL - Do you believe in last 2 decades it has been warming? on: July 21, 2015, 03:09:47 AM
Yes.

Some of it is human-made, some due to natural warming, IMO.

also:

The average combined global land and ocean surface temperature for June 2012 was 0.63°C (1.13°F) above the 20th century average of 15.5°C (59.9°F). This is the fourth warmest June since records began in 1880.

The Northern Hemisphere land surface temperature for June 2012 was the all-time warmest June on record, at 1.30°C (2.34°F) above average.

The globally-averaged land surface temperature for June 2012 was also the all-time warmest June on record, at 1.07°C (1.93°F) above average.

ENSO-neutral conditions continued in the eastern equatorial Pacific Ocean during June 2012 as sea surface temperature anomalies continued to rise. The June worldwide ocean surface temperatures ranked as the 10th warmest June on record.

The combined global land and ocean average surface temperature for January–June 2012 was the 11th warmest on record, at 0.52°C (0.94°F) above the 20th century average.

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201206
Can I correctly paraphrase this as "I'll believe the land numbers, not the satellite numbers?"

Yes, but only with the understanding that it's not simply choosing which data set to believe. The accuracy and reliability associated with each method informs which one I find more credible.
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