I know that I have heard some anecdotal stories of people losing their BTC... on BTC e, also.  However, I question whether those are just made up or exaggerated stories.  I remember one guy had provided me a link to a story.. but in my view, the story did NOT pan out b/c the person was merely sending out negative stories before there was even an issue of a problem.   Surely, it is possible, and maybe I should withdraw some of my BTC from there.. I have about 15 BTC (about 40% of my holdings) on BTCe.

What are your points of contention regarding the problematic nature of BTC e, if any?    Are they NOT transparent enough?  Are they engaged in fractional banking?  What's going on?

Surely, a lot of the money can be made on volatility, and we have been in boring territory for a couple of weeks now...

I mean we have been expecting more volatility than what we have been getting.. especially given the Gox Shenanigans with the bankruptcy filing and then the mysterious movement of 180k GOX BTC money and the hacking of Gox information and the appearance of Dorian... and even the threats from Twobit to "OUT" out the bitcoin foundation......

oh yeah, and then there was the pending blockchain announcement on bloomberg tv... but in the end... mostly all of these resulted in anti-climactical movement that let to no meaningful choochoo in either direction.   Is there such a thing as a backward choo choo or a stopped choo choo....

Even litecoin has been somewhat less than exciting.. regarding movement we thought that there may be some action with litecoin base on its increase exposure to china exchanges... .. but that has, so far, kind of flopped.. with an initial spurt that lasted a few hours at most and overall without any real meaningful price changes... (though maybe a little more back and forth movement in prices as comparison to BTC?)

You have a clever way of pointing at technicalities such as you do NOT want to "run a society."  Who gives a flying fuck whether a person uses the word run or  that the society is running on its own...

Ultimately, the point that I am making is that in the real world apart from your fantasy land of generalities (that supposedly is shared by others with similar visions of grandeur), the societal objectives are NOT going to be met.  ... and net happiness will be down.. even thou some people may feel free an empowered by such a vague societal outline.... b/c supposed individualized liberty will be embraced and respected...   Your whole outline seems much to vague.


And face the reality... you cannot "meet the needs of the helpless" without having various plans that outline such rather than relying on some amorphous concepts of voluntary giving...... and I am quite confident that the helpless will be a much broader category than you are contemplating in your vague outline of principles.

What's it mean?

You cannot run a society like that.... this situation got a lot of attention, but there are so many situations of public need that do NOT get attention, and the problem of free riding or free loading is a well known principle in economics and human psychology that people are NOT going to just freely invest in certain public goods, and they are just going to wait for the other guy... b/c they know that they can get it for free.. there are so many examples of this and even examples of natural monopolies that it is very inefficient to build redundant systems.. and those kinds of systems are public goods.     I think a lot of you anti-government folks do NOT account for these various factors, and somehow expect that everything important is going to be covered by some kind of hands-off voluntary/free/individualistic system.

That is one of the interesting things about the speculation thread... some posters will see good news,  and predict the exact opposite of what any other reasonable person would expect.

NONETHELESS, sometimes there are solid bullet points to support why a poster believes the market will go in one direction or another, such as... CCMF........ and I am of that inclination that the stars are aligning us for a CCMF - however, i am NOT clear whether that CCMF will be today or possibly within the next 6 months...

Accordingly, my BTC price prediction timeline is almost too broad to be credible... but it seems to be in line with some others in this thread.... and my long term bullishness seems to be why I am more of a long term kind of dollar cost averaging BTC investor, rather than a day trader.

DITTO>...... 

Yes I have heard quite a bit of Alan Watts presentations...     Some of you guys may need to read economist richard wolff to get some perspectives on labor history and to get a sense of our modern state of affairs and the exploitation of the people by capitalists (my employment of the word capitalist does NOT mean I am against capitalism).

If these guys are smart people and they have the mathematical solutions and visions, you surely have NOT done them justice in your summarizing them.  or your assertions about the solutions in society.

I am NOT going to waste my time and read up on them, unless some of their ideas, if they have any, are presented to me in a more meaningful and practical way.

In this regard, I get the sense that you get a lot of modern day facts wrong including the role of unions, the detroit problems and us auto industry and the comparison of german companies and society, so why would I have faith in these other sources that you have supposedly digested into your philosophical outlook.

Bitcoin is NOT going to resolve all of these societal and community questions b/c they are still going to exist; however, bitcoin will likely bring some revolutionary possibilities in the way that we think about our social institutions and how we think about and carry out social interactions.

Those are very nice and lofty principles in theory, and they are NOT even bad things to which to aspire.  NONETHELESS, we are likely NOT going to be able to achieve complete voluntaryism, especially your concept of the term, and there are social and public benefit and social and public property that are from time to time going to impinge upon the boundaries and property rights of others that are NOT likely resolvable voluntarily.   But, in theory I would like a world that also aspires to those kinds of broad principles, to the extent feasible.. so maybe we kind of agree to the broad principles, but NOT to the absolutism of such broad principles to the detriment of society as a whole.

You still design by NOT designing... So there is NOT some lofty point that you are getting that I am NOT getting.  Billyjoeallen has painted several aspects of his vision of society.. which seems scary if it were to be applied... unless, of course, the world population was 10% or less of its current quantity.

Richy_T...

I get the sense that we would agree about a lot of the criticisms of the current system, and surely I am NOT opposed to responsible capitalism nor responsible capitalists.  Some of our bones of contention seem to come when we get into describing solutions or if we attempt to paint too broadly with solutions.    We also may agree about some of the solutions, if we were to take them one by one.  It is much too difficult to get into painting broad solutions in a forum like this and through a variety of short written posts.


Though I do tend to agree with one of the points above made by Octaft that removing some of the distractive and corruptive nature of money in politics would likely go a long ways towards moving us in the right direction.  I think that movements can be made in that direction, so I would NOT throw my hands up in the air regarding those kinds of potential measures to remove or to lessen the impact of the money in politics matters.

Yeah.  Give them all nice sounding names, and that will help....


NOT....     



You need more substance, facts, rather than merely having a nice sounding name and a vision that is NOT based in reality.

I would hate to live in the experimental society that you would design after the supposed revolution....

From my reading your various posts on the topic of your vision of what society should be, your society would likely be a very dog eat dog world with a lot of holes and loop holes that do NOT provide for the public to benefit from the public goods.. and probably would NOT adequately protect public goods.... unless of course, after the revolution, your side is able to slim the population down by 80% or more. 

To me, it appears as if you were misreading my earlier post and my use of the word capitalist.   I used the word capitalist to refer to persons holding capital.  My comment was concerning technology, and the history of recent technological innovations in the USA has disproportionately rewarded the capitalists and NOT workers and NOT other segments of society.  This is a dynamic in germany as well, but in germany, labor and the people in general have been more successful to allow for the taking advantage of the technological innovations in order to spread out work and to work less and the rewards of the technological innovations are spread across the people and the society. 

So I was NOT specifically criticizing capitalism with my employment of the term capitalist and my description of what seems to have been a major problem in the united states's allowances regarding the capitalists.   Also, NOT all capitalists have been able to suck all the surplus value - such as the smaller businesses are stuck attempting to compete and putting up their capital and their risk and then getting screwed by the overall poor business and poor humanity infrastructure in the USA. 

IN the USA, you tend to make more money by being a dickhead, rather than by being responsible - even though there are some examples of responsible companies, such as Costco, who treat their workers relatively well, and Costco still is rewarded in the market place.  Wallmart is rewarded in the market place, but treat their workers like shit, and deserve to be regulated into a better state of business, humanity and state of responsibility.

Yeah, that would be even worse.

You were participating in some of them as well...   

I have NO problem with people making profits... there is a difference between a form of regulated capitalism and forms of vulture capitalism whereby the rrich exploit and pretty much steal from the people in various ways and make their money using trickery and such leverage.  small honest businesses are out gunned when these kinds of vulture capitalists are allowed to run free and unfettered.