Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Spaceman_Spiff]

In particular, I cannot understand why some bitcoiners still believe that crypto-currency in general, and bitcoin in particular, will free them from governments or banks.  If that is what you expect from bitcoin, prepare to be severely disappointed.  Governments can render cyptocurrencies useless with a single stroke of the pen; we saw that happen in China and other countries.

More generally, one cannot expect that a technological invention, by itself, will bring fundamental social, political or economic change.  The people whose wealth and power could be threatened by such change will fight it, with all the resources that their wealth and power gives them.  In particular, technology cannot give to the people of a country any freedoms that their government is denying them.

Are you honestly suggesting that black markets don't exist?

Are you really ignoring that the internet fundamentally changed society and is the reason the protests and revolutions from 2011 on are even possible despite the wishes of local dictators?

Posting about government in a way that reads "government is omnipotent" between the lines, and mentioning the French Revolution in the same post seems quite ironic indeed.

[David M]

Steady bitcoin, steady.   Have patience...

[adamstgBit]

Atlas Ceo on fox business
he said 1000s of signups yesterday

poeple need to be prepared to answer why its better then fiat.

the naysayers say things like "a currency has to be back by the full faith and credit of a government"

the appropriate response to that is

" bitcoin is backed by all the poeple who chose to use it...
it has value because it has specific properties that make it desirable

bitcoin is:
1. Scarce
2. Durable
3. Portable
4. Divisible
5. Impossible to counterfeit
6. Fungible ( any 1 BTC has the same value as any other )
7. Easy to keep safe ( contrary to popular belief, it easy to print out a paper wallet...)
8. Shiny ( yes the digital bits that make up a bitcoin are VERY shiny)
9. all of the above. + very shiny

Fiat is:
1. Definitely not  Scarce, ( mage inflation in the money supply is monumental )
2. Not Durable
3. NOT Portable... compare it to bitcoin, ( try sending 1 million dollars across the globe, try sending 10 cents. then try again but with bitcoin AHhhhh you starting to get it now eh )
5.  Impossible to counterfeit LMAO
6. Fungible... ya maybe...
7. Easy to keep safe? ya all it required is huge banks, and even then....  the only reason it works is the fact the government has no problem printing (out of thin air ITS MAGIC!) as much money as they need to be solvent any time they need it, you do know what a bailout is right?
8. Shiny? Its has cocaine allover it so no... not shiny

the only thing that fiat  has going for it is that its widely accepted, for now!
"

in short:

[dreamspark]

since its quite boring in here go have a look at this thread..

-> https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=20336.0

EPIC BUMP

Lol I posted in this thread yesterday and seem to have sparked off the hilarity of being able to find out how much the transfer was for and then getting the OP's whole trade history from the gox database dump. I hadnt seen the replies so cheers for posting it 

[Erdogan]

No, if you trade one work hour for a dinner, indirectly using money, at the money stage the state does not owe you neither the work hour nor the dinner. The system trust I talk about, falls on the state, in case of fiat money, only because they produce the money and manage the supply. In other kinds of money, like gold or bitcoin, the state is not involved in the production or the management, therefore it is easier to see the difference between trust between traders, and trust to the system.

But if I give it back to them when they come calling, I get to stay out of jail.

It's not unusual for debts to change form and ownership. I could buy somebody's poker markers and they might negotiate to pay me back by mowing my lawn. Of course, there's not much negotiating with the government.

This is real money, after the transaction you don't need trust between you and that somebody.
Edit: I don't really know this, it could be an IOU denoted in some other money type from the casino, so not base money.

[knightcoin]

[JayJuanGee]

I observed this wall today, uploaded for your pleasure.
Edited: vandal's graffiti.

What's it mean?

[JayJuanGee]

I simply want to live in a society where all interactions are voluntary and property rights are respected. If that sounds too distopian to you, find comfort in the fact that I am philosophically am opposed to forcing anyone to create such a society, to live there or to stay there. Can you the the same of your society?

Those are very nice and lofty principles in theory, and they are NOT even bad things to which to aspire.  NONETHELESS, we are likely NOT going to be able to achieve complete voluntaryism, especially your concept of the term, and there are social and public benefit and social and public property that are from time to time going to impinge upon the boundaries and property rights of others that are NOT likely resolvable voluntarily.   But, in theory I would like a world that also aspires to those kinds of broad principles, to the extent feasible.. so maybe we kind of agree to the broad principles, but NOT to the absolutism of such broad principles to the detriment of society as a whole.

The debate might end here, then. There are several strong utilitarian arguments to be made in favor of distributed governance, but I'm probably not the right person to make them. I'm a Natural Rights kind of guy and I don't think coercion is justified even if it produced a net benefit for society, which I strongly believe it doesn't.

Our community just donated over $25,000 worth of bitcoin to a victim of irresponsible media. Is that not evidence of our charitable disposition?

You cannot run a society like that.... this situation got a lot of attention, but there are so many situations of public need that do NOT get attention, and the problem of free riding or free loading is a well known principle in economics and human psychology that people are NOT going to just freely invest in certain public goods, and they are just going to wait for the other guy... b/c they know that they can get it for free.. there are so many examples of this and even examples of natural monopolies that it is very inefficient to build redundant systems.. and those kinds of systems are public goods.     I think a lot of you anti-government folks do NOT account for these various factors, and somehow expect that everything important is going to be covered by some kind of hands-off voluntary/free/individualistic system.

I don't want to run a society. I want it to run without anyone running it. Kind of like Bitcoin. Free riders are not the primary issue to the truly altruistic. The main issue is "are the needs of the helpless being met?"    

You have a clever way of pointing at technicalities such as you do NOT want to "run a society."  Who gives a flying fuck whether a person uses the word run or  that the society is running on its own...

Ultimately, the point that I am making is that in the real world apart from your fantasy land of generalities (that supposedly is shared by others with similar visions of grandeur), the societal objectives are NOT going to be met.  ... and net happiness will be down.. even thou some people may feel free an empowered by such a vague societal outline.... b/c supposed individualized liberty will be embraced and respected...   Your whole outline seems much to vague.


And face the reality... you cannot "meet the needs of the helpless" without having various plans that outline such rather than relying on some amorphous concepts of voluntary giving...... and I am quite confident that the helpless will be a much broader category than you are contemplating in your vague outline of principles.

[chriswilmer]

Atlas Ceo on fox business
he said 1000s of signups yesterday

this new exchange coming up is a mega bullish news, hopefully few more spring up here in the states

Wow... it's not often you see a media discussion that's dominated by Bitcoin bulls teaming up on one skeptic!

[adamstgBit]

Atlas Ceo on fox business
he said 1000s of signups yesterday

this new exchange coming up is a mega bullish news, hopefully few more spring up here in the states

Wow... it's not often you see a media discussion that's dominated by Bitcoin bulls teaming up on one skeptic!

if it was me i'd make that bear cry and have him begging me to sell him a 1/10th of a bitcoin for 100$

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Wary]

try sending 1 million dollars across the globe

I've just tried, and it doesn't work: I don't have the million! 

[adamstgBit]

try sending 1 million dollars across the globe

I've just tried, and it doesn't work: I don't have the million! 

try 10cents then

[adamstgBit]

Atlas Ceo on fox business
he said 1000s of signups yesterday

poeple need to be prepared to answer why its better then fiat.

the naysayers say things like "a currency has to be back by the full faith and credit of a government"

the appropriate response to that is

" bitcoin is backed by all the poeple who chose to use it...
it has value because it has specific properties that make it desirable

bitcoin is:
1. Scarce
2. Durable
3. Portable
4. Divisible
5. Impossible to counterfeit
6. Fungible ( any 1 BTC has the same value as any other )
7. Easy to keep safe ( contrary to popular belief, it easy to print out a paper wallet...)
8. Shiny ( yes the digital bits that make up a bitcoin are VERY shiny)
9. all of the above. + very shiny

Fiat is:
1. Definitely not  Scarce, ( mage inflation in the money supply is monumental )
2. Not Durable
3. NOT Portable... compare it to bitcoin, ( try sending 1 million dollars across the globe, try sending 10 cents. then try again but with bitcoin AHhhhh you starting to get it now eh )
5.  Impossible to counterfeit LMAO
6. Fungible... ya maybe...
7. Easy to keep safe? ya all it required is huge banks, and even then....  the only reason it works is the fact the government has no problem printing (out of thin air ITS MAGIC!) as much money as they need to be solvent any time they need it, you do know what a bailout is right?
8. Shiny? Its has cocaine allover it so no... not shiny

the only thing that fiat  has going for it is that its widely accepted, for now!
"

in short:

for #5 "Impossible to counterfeit"
does that even apply to fiat given the fact that it is, relatively easy to counterfeit, and in essence, counterfeited into existence?

[shields]

Atlas Ceo on fox business
he said 1000s of signups yesterday

this new exchange coming up is a mega bullish news, hopefully few more spring up here in the states

Wow... it's not often you see a media discussion that's dominated by Bitcoin bulls teaming up on one skeptic!

Was he drunk? He was babbling, he said "early adapters"  instead of "early adopters" about 4 times and said nonsense like "when you're storing Bitcoin you can put a value there and say it's representing gold or other things like that". Wow, that's the best rebuttal he had to the original point, which was that Bitcoin is not backed by a government or gold. Honestly he didn't sound confident talking about Bitcoin at all.

[Spaceman_Spiff]

Atlas Ceo on fox business
he said 1000s of signups yesterday

this new exchange coming up is a mega bullish news, hopefully few more spring up here in the states

Wow... it's not often you see a media discussion that's dominated by Bitcoin bulls teaming up on one skeptic!

Was he drunk? He was babbling, he said "early adapters"  instead of "early adopters" about 4 times and said nonsense like "when you're storing Bitcoin you can put a value there and say it's representing gold or other things like that". Wow, that's the best rebuttal he had to the original point, which was that Bitcoin is not backed by a government or gold. Honestly he didn't sound confident talking about Bitcoin at all.

probably just nervous in front of camera

[hdbuck]

anyone heard of this??

-> http://getpopcornti.me/

freaking awsome

[shields]

anyone heard of this??

-> http://getpopcornti.me/

freaking awsome

No, but I've heard of being on topic, have you heard of that?

[Walsoraj]

Last ~4 hours we've been in a tight range.

Interesting.....

Anything less than a 50% flash crash is boring. 

[hdbuck]

anyone heard of this??

-> http://getpopcornti.me/

freaking awsome

No, but I've heard of being on topic, have you heard of that?

In the wall observer thread? Good luck.

lol come on, the last 10 pages were just sociology chitchat.

at least that site is big news.

edit: should run a BTC donations campaign for these guys since they're probably going to go through a lot of harassment/trials.  

edit edit: godd im so bullish on everything right now.