WOW... You seem to be onto something Walsoraj..... that is really really funny to NOT hear from Satoshi in that particular thread for 5 years ... and then all of a sudden for some reason Satoshi Nakamoto, if that is really Satoshi, feels such a need to comment within that particular dormant thread and to say that he is NOT Dorian... ... I thought that we had NOT heard from Satoshi since about mid-2011 or so... which would then cause me to begin to believe that maybe Satoshi is Dorian.. b/c why would the real Satoshi care enough to reply in a dormant thread concerning whatever is going on with Dorian... In this regard, the real Satoshi should NOT give a flying fuck about whatever is going on with Dorian or that Dorian is being confused for Satoshi.. unless Dorian is the real Satoshi... |
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today was a low volume day
~10,230 coins were traded for ~6,800,000$
price ranged from 675 - 650
i'm pretty sure depth on both sides is meaningless
How can depth be meaningless? The ask end filled, the bid side didnt. You mean people are expecting it to break out? So they placing more orders? I would say the depth is more meaningful, when the price of the order is realistictly reachable in a couple of hours. But this now 7300btc to 700$ might hard to beat, but maybe some of them get pulled... whats going to make it break is when suddenly the mini walls on the front lines won't be replaced when filled coming soon... T-4 hours with 78% probability YEAH... and the whales pull some of these walls (under their control) on purpose b/c they want to buy up those orders and move the price upward and suck up all those coins But this now 7300btc to 700$ might hard to beat, but maybe some of them get pulled...
How will this look when we are at $3000-$4000 per BTC? Impossible for me... It will look the same or at least very similar, just less volatile b/c it takes 5 times more fiat to manipulate. So will BTC be on the cover of the next Newsweek?
Either Satoshi or Bitcoin will be Time's man of the year.... hehehe  By the way, what is CCMF? Is it "Choo Choo Mother Fucker?" What about Mark? haha I wonder if mainstream knows Mark Karpelese more than Satoshi. Yeah... that is why we had that sword picture of Mark stabbing Satoshi b/c Mark considers Satoshi to be his competition ... that fucking evil little brat!!! |
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Interesting choice of words. Denies "being the creator of Bitcoin"...
We all know bitcoin evolved. Only the cultist wing-nuts believe it was created. Tailor: I believe that my thinking is kind of aligning with yours on this point... maybe the longer we read each other's posts the more our thinking aligns... hehehe... Surely there was some early creations that became inspirational to the evolution of bitcoin... and the evolution does seem kind of fanciful, when one thinks back upon it...... and whether some of the story or the lore of bitcoin is true may NOT be relevant - however, these kinds of stories will be used by pro and by cons to argue their points or even to argue concerning the original intent... and the direction that we should go with bitcoin. The white paper does describe aspects of the original intent, and maybe some of those concepts within the white paper will have to evolve to in order to adapt bitcoin to the real world bitcoin application and maybe unexpected turns of events that may take place, to the extent that the unexpected may come about? Yes... evolution .. NOT creation.. . hehehe |
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who the fuck is hodling the bitch up at 660  so its all goverment controlled already? Personally, I do NOT believe that this BTC price matter is govt controlled. What I believe happens, is that a wall is created... for example at $700, and then the wall creator, whale, manipulates to make it appear that there is a lot of selling resistance, and then he allows build up of sellers to build up until all of a sudden he will pull the wall and also probably stimulate sales incrementally and the price will go up. He then cashes in on a lot of those sold BTC and then puts up another wall.. maybe at 700 or some other amount that the market will NOT easily penetrate... rinse and repeat ... these whales are making a killing... and they do so within the parameters of what we, as a conglomerate, are willing to pay for BTC. |
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So will BTC be on the cover of the next Newsweek?
Either Satoshi or Bitcoin will be Time's man of the year.... hehehe By the way, what is CCMF? Is it "Choo Choo Mother Fucker?" |
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Who will crash the market first?
1.Satoshi
2.Mark
3.FBI
4.(put name of unknown hacker, druglord... in here ____ FONZI)
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with his identity revealed, chance of a 'dump' or sell for money to assume a new life increased. so I guess the fall is 'justified'
I doubt that even if he were revealed that he would cash out. He may take some out, but NOT all in one shot.. that is too extreme and too out of character. |
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I see. For you "audit" means a statement by the company that they have done an audit and everything was OK. So it was only a misunderstanding on the meaning of that word, sorry. [/quote] Even though they do NOT provide a number, it is quite amazing if any exchanges are holding, in trust between 1 and 2 million bitcoins.... |
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Not yet, there is a planned number that's not yet reached... Do you really think satoshi would have imagined that bitcoin would reach $1000 when he first started? IF he had a planned number, im pretty sure we have already reached it. Are you telling me that it even doesn't make sense to Satoshi that bitcoins price is this high?  Depends on your view. Do you really think that satoshi thought bitcoin would go to $1000 when he started at $0? I think that Satoshi thought that bitcoin will go to $1000 and not stop there. I thing that Satoshi estimated bitcoin maximum final price to be either $160 000 (replacing annual VISA volume) or $330 000 (replacing gold) or $800 000 (replacing USA GNP). He did not estimate bitcoin to go over $4 500 000 (If all the world economy was converted to bitcoins.). That would be totally amazing if bitcoin were to take over all of the world economy... and really that kind of scenario seems pretty highly unlikely... b/c there would seem to be some value in retaining some value in other asset classes.. besides bitcoin.. |
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Interesting. I've been waiting on some news to come out so we could judge, based on market reaction, whether we are still in a bear market or not.
Here on the forum the bears are out in full force. But the exchanges have only gone down slightly. This is the kind of semi-neutral news that could be interpreted good or bad, with a slight lean towards bad.
But the exchanges are holding their own so far. If we go up from here, I might reconsider whether this bear market still has legs.
donīt see any bears here yet besides me and kaspar  Right. But the two of you are taking up over 50% of the posts. Your enthusiasm about this news is obvious and representative. its not enthusiasm believe me....its just feeling culpable for having sold the goxcoins profiteering from other peoples Stockholm syndrom.. or who were blinded to see through this " making the Ponzi work to rid the last idiot of his monies" which is still going on because nobody wants to accept the fact that there have been 800000 stolen coins sold down to a hundred dollars at empty Gox..... I would be rather worried that the plug is again pulled- why not tomorrow morning ? - nobody else suspicious why it is being held at 650 if you īd really come to your senses thinking the matters through ? ok then cheers I don't doubt that there are various plots to undermine BTC prices and to undermine the whole public perception regarding BTC. HOWEVER, the prices are ONLY going to be able to be held DOWN for so long. After a while the dam is going to have to burst b/c the whale bots are NOT going to be able to stop the upward momentum... whether that takes a few days, a few weeks or several months, the time is gonna come.. likely before the end of the calendar year in which we are probably be in the $1500 or more area.. outside of the control of the whale/bot manipulators or whoever else may be engaging in tactics to keep BTC prices down. |
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Last weekend's British Sunday Times magazine contained a well-written article by Andrew Smith about who Satoshi might be. It examined about 10 candidates, most well-known in the bitcoin community, and did not jump to any conclusion. It puts the junk Newsweek article to shame.
WE HAVE to be a subscriber of the sunday times to read Smith's article. Accordingly, I have NOT seen Smith's article. Not yet, there is a planned number that's not yet reached... Do you really think satoshi would have imagined that bitcoin would reach $1000 when he first started? IF he had a planned number, im pretty sure we have already reached it. Are you telling me that it even doesn't make sense to Satoshi that bitcoins price is this high? Depends on your view. Do you really think that satoshi thought bitcoin would go to $1000 when he started at $0? I don't know what Satoshi thought.. I don't even know who Satoshi is, so it's very hard to speculate his motives and plans. And that makes it funny that people are calling bitcoin "sound money"... they are actually trusting their wealth in the hands of someone they know nothing about... because if those old 1mil coins will be dumped, then bitcoin is back to costing cents and won't ever recover This is fairly high speculation; however, I bet that if one million BTC were dumped onto one or more of the exchanges, BTC price would soon recover. We may get prices into the $100 range, but I really doubt that BTC price would go much below $100 and it would likely NOT stay there for a very long time.... Although, surely that large of a dump would surely cause a certain amount of panic if we did NOT know from where those 1 million coins were coming.. and others would likely choose to short their coins upon speculation of the price drop... and sure the domino effect of dumping would cause a large dump and then a large repurchasing the coins at a lower price. I guess my point is that 1 million coin dump would NOT be the demise of BTC.. especially since currently there are only about 12.5 million BTC and some investors may consider an opportunity to buy cheap coins as a means to attempt to take control over a larger percentage of the BTC supply. |
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You can summarize this long rant into "I'm right, even if I'm not right". Religious nuts like these create more harm then good to bitcoin imo.
This could be said of you as well. Whats up with intelligent people arguing desperately against bitcoin in a bitcoin forum like Jorge Trollfi and you, kkaspar? Is there a point in shouting bitcoin will fail to a group that mostly believe in bitcoin? What if you actually turn out to be right? You gain absolutely nothing from this. And don't come with the "I'm only here to help" argument. Thats utter bullshit It's funny that you say that people are actually "arguing against bitcoin". I myself find that bitcoin is an interesting piece of software, but I also find myself arguing against the religious zealots who have gathered around bitcoin. It's common for religious people to speak in those terms. I have often heard that if I don't agree with the Christian world view, then I'm actually against god. People aren't able to comprehend that there could be different understandings of god and if you don't accept the religious dogmas in Christianity, then you are not against god. It's not surprising to see the same mentality here. I'm here for the same reasons then most probably are, to read and to speak my mind. I think that bitcoin doesn't need religious worshipping, so I can't see that I have to either worship it or leave. I like to keep an sober mind and take bitcoin as it is. An interesting piece of software that currently is an innovative gambling platform, but what also brought forward ideas that can trigger the start of something more." It seems that we already determined, several times in the past day that this religious accusation that is leveled at bullish bitcoiners is bunk. Yes... billions and zillions... bitcoin being the solution to world banking problems... bitcoin not having a deflationary problem etc... just regular bullishness.. Determined. P.S. People who tell that Scientology is a religion are wrongfully accusing bullish scientists. Determined. Fair enough that you have your mantra or your view of things in which you seem to want to simplify and to describe BTC bullishness attitudes as a form of cultish behavior. Frequently, there is some truth to any fiction and/or any propaganda, including the framework that you are outlining. I do NOT really have any major problem with you having your viewpoint and expressing it - though I remain somewhat bothered that your simplification has a tendency to dilute and distract and to mislead.... and also sometimes it rises to the level of patronizing and criticizing guys for being blind followers - when that frequently is NOT the case. YET, I have seen that a few of your posts have made decent points, from time to time, so long as you steer clear from what seems to rise to personal attacks. By the way, my various times stating, millions, billions or gazillions, it does NOT matter was to suggest that the exact number was NOT the point that was being made at that particular time... though, I recognize that sometimes, we may need to get fairly specific concerning the numbers that we are considering.... .. and in that regard if we were to take a snapshot of bitcoin's current infrastructure, we are going to come up with several ways to calculate the value of that infrastructure.. and some ways are going to produce larger numbers depending upon which aspects of the infrastructure that are included in such snapshot(s). |
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You can summarize this long rant into "I'm right, even if I'm not right". Religious nuts like these create more harm then good to bitcoin imo.
This could be said of you as well. Whats up with intelligent people arguing desperately against bitcoin in a bitcoin forum like Jorge Trollfi and you, kkaspar? Is there a point in shouting bitcoin will fail to a group that mostly believe in bitcoin? What if you actually turn out to be right? You gain absolutely nothing from this. And don't come with the "I'm only here to help" argument. Thats utter bullshit It's funny that you say that people are actually "arguing against bitcoin". I myself find that bitcoin is an interesting piece of software, but I also find myself arguing against the religious zealots who have gathered around bitcoin. It's common for religious people to speak in those terms. I have often heard that if I don't agree with the Christian world view, then I'm actually against god. People aren't able to comprehend that there could be different understandings of god and if you don't accept the religious dogmas in Christianity, then you are not against god. It's not surprising to see the same mentality here. I'm here for the same reasons then most probably are, to read and to speak my mind. I think that bitcoin doesn't need religious worshipping, so I can't see that I have to either worship it or leave. I like to keep an sober mind and take bitcoin as it is. An interesting piece of software that currently is an innovative gambling platform, but what also brought forward ideas that can trigger the start of something more." It seems that we already determined, several times in the past day that this religious accusation that is leveled at bullish bitcoiners is bunk. |
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...
Yeah it went down to $102. Get it right guys !
...
Actually, on the 21st February on MtGox (death spiral), it went down to 92$. Speaking of getting it right... These ups and downs have to be more descriptive in the media to be accurate (I am NOT holding my breath) - b/c it is really misleading to suggest bitcoin went down to $92 in any meaningful way, when it only went down to $92 on one exchange in which many people did NOT have access to such $92 prices b/c money was NOT easily moved in or out. And at the same time, overall BTC did get into the lower $400s at some point after the shutting down of GOX, yet when GOX was at $92, overall BTC was in the upper $500's I believe. And, as far as the $102, that was a flash crash on BTC-e. If a person had set their buy orders, low, then those people could have benefited from the $102 flash crash; however, the flash crash took place so quickly that it would have been difficult to place a buy order, while the flash crash was happening. I was on BTC e website at the time, and I saw that prices go from $610-ish to lower $500s, I was NOT looking at my screen when it went lower than that, and I had NO idea until later. |
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First, english is not my first language so apologize for not writing essays to rhetorically back up my POV, Second, i'm not being not constructive; maybe you don't like my sense of humor or my cynicism (which is aimed mostly on Mark and bitcoin heists) And third, i'm no fan of picky chitchat and referenceless tirades. So yea, i'd have definitely enjoy drawing pistols at dawn with you, but lets not make it that dramatic, since deep down, we all are here for the same reasons. Anyho, im not saying you always talk BS (although im certainly not going to agree about this billion $ you are fanatically conjuring). Just that i also dont like being insulted. And at least I backed up my answer to you with a reference, which you clearly did not when calling me a liar or stupid.. So lets burry the War Axe and move on to more interesting subjects. And since you seem to like latin quotes here you go: Oculi plus vident quam oculus I am NOT in the practice of putting posters on ignore; however, I do place them in a mental category regarding whether they tend to add value. Here, it appears that the ONLY value that HDBuck seems to add is the entertainment value of distraction from the topic of the thread. |
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You can summarize this long rant into "I'm right, even if I'm not right". Religious nuts like these create more harm then good to bitcoin imo.
This could be said of you as well. Whats up with intelligent people arguing desperately against bitcoin in a bitcoin forum like Jorge Trollfi and you, kkaspar? Is there a point in shouting bitcoin will fail to a group that mostly believe in bitcoin? What if you actually turn out to be right? You gain absolutely nothing from this. And don't come with the "I'm only here to help" argument. Thats utter bullshit It does become very diffcult to understand their purposes in being in these kinds of forums, and maybe in the end they are merely paid by some big bank or something to undermine bitcoin and to spread disinformation and to distract us from engaging in meaningful discussions about bitcoin. |
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Thankfully I had not yet gotten around to ignoring kkaspar yet, so I saw this. Of course I have to ignore him now that he caught my attention, since he is a troll who adds nothing of value, regardless of viewpoint. Having seen the accusation of mendacity, I reply. including billions of dollars of investment going into its infrastructure and its wider and wider network of acceptance and use.
Billions of dollars? Really? That's hype on a whole new level. Really. I can enumerate a billion in ventures without trying hard. It's only a thousand millions, and a 5-10 million startup is begun practically every week. Then there are miners, the foundation, numerous apps for every platform in currency, exchanges, miner manufacturers, purveyors of plastic, shopping sites, not to mention the dark net. BTC turns over 6 times annually. For each dollar of recurring cash flow multiple dollars of investment are rationally expected. yeah try again. LIAR -> http://www.coindesk.com/following-money-trends-bitcoin-venture-capital-investment/On the Bitcoin side, the $97.5m in venture capital that has been publicly reported underestimates the total, which would include unreported venture investment, by tens of millions of dollars. (...) Finally, it has been estimated that upwards of $200m has been invested in bitcoin mining hardware and infrastructure to date, a figure which exceeds even a less conservative estimate of the total venture capital invested in bitcoin to date. we're far from a billion  I am a liar, but you don't qualify to call me one, hd. In a more romantic world (not necessarily a better one) we would be drawing pistols at dawn. I know I am a liar, because I have to wage war against myself every day, to stay on a path of truth. I admit to indulging all too much rhetoric, by purely rationalistic standards (but definitely not by romantic ones). More struggle remains, I guess. But that rhetoric is not intended to deceive, and if I am in factual error I am eager to correct it, if only to steel my rhetoric against facile attacks by nattering nabobs of negativity. I played loosely with words, and you called me out on it. For that I commend you, in that it was an excellent call, accurately identifying your perceived opponent's weakness, and maximizing it to your perceived advantage. I say perceived because I believe that, in fact, your own interests would be better served by seeking win-win collaboration and value-enhancing synergies than by exercising your oppositional personality disorder. It would not, in fact, be "easy" for me to enumerate a billion in ventures full stop. I would have to include "miners, the foundation, numerous apps for every platform in currency, exchanges, miner manufacturers, purveyors of plastic, shopping sites, not to mention the dark net". Correction made. One small aspect of the brilliance of bitcoin in its conception and execution is that it aggregates to its own agenda the resources previously dedicated to the fiat economy. While resources freshly allocated to bitcoin may be less than 2 billions (but certainly more than 1 billion, and hence deserving of the term "billions", rather than "millions", which would be mendaciously misleading) the resources now commanded by bitcoin, subservient and leveraged to its design goals, are on the order of tens of billions in USDnow terms. If bitcoin achieves its maximum conceivable penetrative success, without the expense of more than X USD of fresh purposefully dedicated infrastructure, it will have done so my commandeering trillions is pre-existing infrastructure, and re-purposing it. By the way, hd, your attack, while well placed, lacked force. You quoted (to your credit) parts of the source which supported my position, and the conclusions of the quote were weak refutation, if they even qualified as refutation. The source enumerates 300 millions and explicitly states that this underestimates the total. Moreover the source does not include resources which I explicitly mentioned (without estimating). If the source were to underestimate by a factor of 3, it would not be incorrect as a result, thus both the source and my statement can be simultaneously true. Thus the source is no refutation at all. (That you choose obsessive oppositionalism over a synergetic approach, which would seek to extract what valid truth can be found instead of finding fault where perfection is lacking - everywhere, in fact - is probably not doing you good service.) I should not have said "easily" but I persist that I can enumerate in excess of a billion, without excessive stretching. This would involved many disputable numbers and perhaps even disputable resources. They would still be enumerated, and their total would still be serving the interests of bitcoin's design, some in a dedicated manner, some in a multipurpose manner, the latter mostly inherited from pre-existing infrastructure, but fractionally co-opted by bitcoin. It would also include ventures not considered in the total reported by your source. (If both law and principle prevent me from defending myself with lead or steel, I can at least man up enough to use the tongue granted me, in the most temperate but penetrating manner which I can promptly muster.) You can summarize this long rant into "I'm right, even if I'm not right". Religious nuts like these create more harm then good to bitcoin imo.That is NOT religion. It is an itemization of sources to support an argument. Every source does NOT need to be specifically known with exactitude in order to support the general idea behind the argument that ultimately is NOT a religion but instead a support for a direction and a prediction of a direction. The ultimate prediction in this scenario is based in a reality (not religion) that the bitcoin network is expanding and resources are continuing to be allocated towards bitcoin networking resources. And, maybe in the end, a more fair characterization of the current expansion of the bitcoin network would be to suggest that current investments into the bitcoin network are in the hundreds of millions dollars and arguably into the billions with every day increasing amounts of investments being allocated thereto. And, really an attempt at distraction based on technical points (about whether it is millions or billions or gazillions) that are irrelevant to the main argument that the bitcoin network continues to expand which is ultimately going to affect its price in an upward direction in BTC price.. so hang on for those ongoing price increases... and hang on for the continued expansion of the bitcoin network.. which does NOT seem to be slowing down in any material way. |
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Just had a revelation: When you think about it, the famous BS expression refers to Bulls.. not Bears.. Hence, who is likely to talk with more sense?!  edit: and plz dont tell me thats just some coincidence maybe so in the stock market but in the bitcointalk forums it should refer to bears  Podyx::::: That's BEARSHIT!!!! OK>>> Just practicing. |
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Octaft: To which "he" are you referring. Surely, you are NOT siding with Tailor, who appears to have contributed NO value or substance with this distracting baloney crap article.
Am I referring to you? Nah. Am I siding with Tailor? Not necessarily. Does that mean I think the word of everyone who disagrees with him is gold, and will take it without a second thought, and without sources or references? Nope. If you know something someone else doesn't, you don't tell them to do their own research. That's not helpful or adding anything to the conversation. Besides, even if the person you are addressing is a troll, and you have no hope of convincing them, maybe you convince someone who stumbled onto the forum and is lurking, and you make the community look good because you remained polite in the face of adversity. You also make it a lot harder for the people who accuse bitcoiners of being a cult to make their case when you're handling disagreement with politeness. It benefits pro-bitcoiners to actually argue their side, and argue it repeatedly so newbies can see without having to scour the forums. I really dislike the whole "it's the same old shit." Well, of course it is! They're newbies, they weren't around for the explanation the first time, and they're probably getting a bunch of stuff that you disagree with drilled into their heads. In their minds, they have done the research. It's your job to convince them their information is flawed, if that's what you think. Just remember, YOU (collective you) asked those questions when YOU first found out about bitcoin, and if you didn't, I would consider that highly irresponsible. Be nice to the newbies, if it's ever going to get to 5k+, it will likely be on their backs. Certainly, I get your point, and I largely agree with it as you have described it, above. NONETHELESS, in my mind there remains a difference in how I am going to react and/or respond to someone who is asking naive questions versus someone who comes into a conversation with superficial conclusory comments and what appears to be accusations towards one side or another. In essence, naive questions will receive a better reception from me.... even if that naivete is inarticulate in various ways... which each of us are guilty of inarticulate rambling, from time to time.. and some of us more than others... and back to bitcoin.... break up or break down..? I say up... I say this b/c it seems that we had our opportunity for down last week after we heard about the Gox bankruptcy filing, and meaningful and prolonged breaking down did NOT come.... so I predict that it is time for an up to between $750 and $850... .. however, it may take us approximately a week to get solidly into that price zone. |
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Just had a revelation: When you think about it, the famous BS expression refers to Bulls.. not Bears.. Hence, who is likely to talk with more sense?! edit: and plz dont tell me thats just some coincidence The more you explain, the more sense you make ... ... ... ... .. NOT |
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