It looks like GABI will not be like SMBIT.
SMBIT (for what I know) is supposed to just buy bitcoins when clients invest (buy SMBIT shares), and sell bitcoins when clients liquidate (sell the shares back to SMBIT). Both operations use a fixed price of 0.1 BTC per share, converted to USD according to the market price at the time of the transaction (buy or liuidate), with fixed (non-trivial) fees. Thus an SMBIt share is just a receipt for 0.1 BTC stored by SMBIT.
GABI looks more like "give us your money, we will invest it in a portfolio of bitcoin and bitcoin-related entrerprise and other things as well, as we see fit, buying and selling so as to increase our holdings and hence the value of your shares". Is this interpretation correct?
The Company seeks to achieve capital appreciation through direct and indirect exposure to Bitcoins and Bitcoin related markets.
If profitable opportunities arise, the Company will also invest in certain other commodity markets, including precious metals, oil and other forms of money (such as FX) as required to meet its investment goals whilst enhancing the Company’s ability to manage its liquidity requirementsIndeed the interpretation is correct.... |
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Key Features of an Expert Fund
• An Expert Fund may only be offered to Expert Investors, on the basis of an offer document setting out all material information. Expert Investors are deemed to be able to evaluate the risks of investing in an Expert Fund and to bear the economic consequences should the investment fail, and are therefore also deemed to require less regulatory protection in relation to the manner in which the Expert Fund is structured.
• Regardless of the number of potential investors to whom the fund is offered, a Fund Certificate is required in relation to an Expert Fund.
• Each of the Jersey Fund Service Providers must be registered under the FS Law and comply with Codes of Practice for the conduct of fund services business (although Managed Entities may only be subject to the core principles of the Codes and standard conditions attaching to their FS Law registration – see below)
• An Expert Fund must have a Jersey Fund Service Provider which is able to certify compliance with the JFSC's requirements for Expert Funds. Approval is given by the JFSC on the basis of this self-certification. The Jersey Fund Service Provider has a responsibility to the JFSC to monitor the investment manager's compliance with the Expert Fund’s investment and borrowing restrictions (if any) and to maintain adequate records in Jersey.
• The fund company, general partner or trustee must have at least two Jersey- resident directors.
• An Expert Fund can be open or closed ended, can be established using any of the common forms of investment vehicle and no investment or borrowing restrictions are set by the JFSC.
• An Expert Fund which is a unit trust or limited partnership must have a Jersey trustee/general partner.
• The JFSC's Promoter Policy does not apply to an Expert Fund.
• The investment manager should be appropriately qualified in accordance with published criteria and must sign a prescribed statement confirming certain matters relating to its regulatory position or stature. This statement must be counter-signed by a Jersey Fund Service Provider (typically the administrator of the fund) confirming that it has conducted its own general due diligence on the investment manager and has no reason to believe the investment manager's statement to be incorrect. The JFSC has demonstrated a willingness to approve applications on behalf of funds whose investment manager or adviser is unable to comply with the criteria if they can be satisfied as to the ability of the manager/ adviser to fulfil its functions in relation to the fund. The jurisdictions in which the investment manager may be established can be found on the JFSC's website (www. jerseyfsc.org) under the Funds Business tab – Guidance Notes.
• An Expert Fund may be listed provided that certain criteria are met so that the holding of units in the fund is always restricted to Expert Investors. • Transfers of interests should only be made to other Expert Investors.
• The requirements for custody arrangements are flexible, especially for closed- ended vehicles and for hedge funds. Every Expert Fund must have adequate arrangements for the safe custody of the property of the fund and in the case of open-ended funds the custodian should be Jersey based. However, in the case of a hedge fund, the need for a custodian will be waived provided a prime broker with a credit rating of A1/P1 is appointed. Flexibility is maintained, as the JFSC will discuss any derogations from the requirements of the Expert Fund Guide on a case-by-case basis.
Expert Fund may only be offered to "Expert Investors". The term "Expert Investor" includes: – an investor who makes an initial minimum investment of US$100,000 (or equivalent); or – a person or entity (or an employee thereof ) whose ordinary business or professional activity includes acquiring, managing or giving advice on investments; or – an individual with a net worth greater than US$1,000,000 (or equivalent) (excluding principal residence); or – an entity with assets available for investment of not less than US$1,000,000 (or equivalent) or every member, partner or beneficiary of which is an Expert Investor; or – a Fund Service Provider or an associate of a Fund Service Provider to the Expert Fund (or an employee or shareholder thereof ).
A discretionary investment manager is an Expert Investor for the purposes of the Expert Fund Guide and may invest on behalf of non- expert investors provided that it ensures that an investment in the Expert Fund is suitable for the underlying investors. Any application to include other types of "carried interest" investor within the definition of Expert Investor is likely to be treated sympathetically by the JFSC. This is intended to encourage investment by those involved in establishing and providing services to Expert Funds. There are a number of funds approved in which such carried interest vehicles participate. There is no restriction on the number of Expert Investors, but each must acknowledge in writing a specific investment warning acknowledging their understanding that the fund is suitable only for Expert Investors.
Authorisation Process for an Expert Fund In order to establish an Expert Fund, a standard application form must be completed, signed on behalf of the Expert Fund and the relevant Jersey Fund Service Provider and filed with the JFSC, together with copies of the offer document, fees and a declaration certifying that the Expert Fund complies with the requirements of the Expert Fund Guide.
The JFSC relies on the declaration in order to authorise the Expert Fund on an expedited basis. The authorisation process will conclude with the issue of a Fund Certificate in relation to the Expert Fund and the registration under the FS Law of any Fund Service Providers not yet registered:
Fund Certificate Conditions relating to the Expert Fund will be attached to the Fund Certificate which will be granted to the fund itself if the fund is a company, to the general partner if the fund is a limited partnership or to the trustee if the fund is a unit trust. Registration under the FS Law to carry on fund services business Each Jersey Fund Service Provider of an Expert Fund needs to be registered under the FS Law to carry on fund services business.
All registered Fund Service Providers are required to comply with Codes of Practice for the conduct of fund services business which consist of seven core principles together with detailed requirements in respect of each of these principles. However, Managed Entities acting in relation only to expert funds, related expert funds or materially equivalent funds are subject only to the seven core principles and a set of standard conditions attaching to their registration under the FS Law unless they have elected to comply with the Codes in full. Once a person (other than a Managed Entity) is registered to provide fund services business of the relevant type, it does not need to apply for authorisation in relation to each new fund for which it intends to carry on the same type of fund services business. Changes made to an Expert Fund do not require the prior approval of the JFSC provided the criteria in the Expert Fund Guide continue to be met.
Timescale for Authorisation The JFSC's published timescale for authorising an Expert Fund is 72 hours. This timescale is based on the JFSC receiving a fully completed application and satisfactory responses to enquiries. The JFSC has confirmed that applications for registration under the FS Law of a Managed Entity which is to act for an Expert Fund will also be processed within the 72 hour timescale provided that the JFSC has previously approved the directors of the Managed Entity. Statutory Fees Application fees A fee of £1,000 is payable on application for the Fund Certificate plus £1,000 in respect of each of the fund’s Jersey Fund Service Providers. Annual fees Annual fees are payable in relation to a fund which holds a Fund Certificate. The amount depends on the total number of pools of assets in the fund at the time the fee is payable (this ranges from £2,000 if there is only one pool of assets to £20,000 if there are 200 or more pools of assets). Statutory fees are also payable by Jersey Fund Service Providers. A fee of £1,000 is payable for a Fund Service Provider’s application for registration under the FS Law.
Please note that as mentioned above, once a Fund Service Provider is registered, then if it is not a Managed Entity, it does not need to apply for authorisation in relation to each new fund for which it intends to carry on the same type of fund services business. The annual fees payable by a Fund Service Provider depend on the number of pools of assets in all the collective investment funds in relation to which it is a Fund Service Provider. This ranges from £2,000 to £20,000. From 1 July 2009, a Fund Service Provider is required to pay the minimum annual fee of £2,000 even if the number of pools of assets in all the collective investment funds in relation to which it carries on fund services business is 0.
If the Fund Certificate is granted or the Fund Service Provider registered on a day after 1st July the annual fees are calculated pro rata for each complete month of the year to the following 1st July. Offer Document The Expert Fund Guide prescribes basic information which must be contained in an Expert Fund’s offer document. This includes all the information that investors would reasonably require for the purposes of making an informed judgement about whether to participate in the Expert Fund.
The requirements are not unduly burdensome and also benefit Expert Fund promoters in providing clear guidance as to the requirements for offer documents. In addition, an open-ended Expert Fund structured as a company or a unit trust must comply with the UFPO and a closed-ended Expert Fund structured as a company must comply with the GPO. Offer documents for Expert Funds need to include an investment warning in the approved form, and each investor must acknowledge in writing that he has received and accepted this warning.
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To answer your question as it does not really say too much about audting and reporting in the collective investment funds (Jersey) law 1998 link, however I believe I can answer your question anyway For recognized funds (I believe that Expert funds are the same in terms of reporting requirements) the annual and half-yearly audited financial statements and portfolio statements and reports prescribed by the RF Order must be made available to investors and sent out within: four months of the relevant period’s end in the case of an annual report. two months of the periods end in the case of a semi-annual report (An unregulated fund which is a company must send annual audited financial statements to investors and file them with the Commission) +
https://www.jerseyfsc.org/registry/documentsearch/NameDetail.aspx?Id=297268Name: GLOBAL ADVISORS BITCOIN INVESTMENT FUND PLC Registered Office: Ground Floor Liberation House Castle Street St Helier Jersey JE2 3AT Registration number: 115205 Registration date: 12-Mar-2014 Year End: 30-Jun Law: Companies (Jersey) Law 1991 Business Code: RCP Business Type: RCP - Registered Public Company Status: Live Public companies must file with the Registrar of Companies a signed copy of the accounts for each financial period together with a copy of the report thereon by the auditors Thanks! Shoud we then assume that we will not know what GABI is doing for 10 months at least (assuming the reports are published or leaked then)? Hmmm in terms of performance no, but I am not sure exactly what is stipulated in their order.. though under the fund regs they do have to provide an "Offer Document" Offer Document The Expert Fund Guide prescribes basic information which must be contained in an Expert Fund’s offer document. This includes all the information that investors would reasonably require for the purposes of making an informed judgement about whether to participate in the Expert Fund. The requirements are not unduly burdensome and also benefit Expert Fund promoters in providing clear guidance as to the requirements for offer documents. In addition, an open-ended Expert Fund structured as a company or a unit trust must comply with the UFPO and a closed-ended Expert Fund structured as a company must comply withthe GPO. Offer documents for Expert Funds need to include an investment warning in the approved form, and each investor must acknowledge in writing that he has received and accepted this warning. So that is what is available until they hand over their first set of audited accounts/reports. |
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For those that still have not seen this or missed it and may be interested.... (apology to those that have seen it already, not "spamming" but it seems there is still some confusion as to who and where and how... there is a link to the regulation that covers GABI nearer the bottom) Some infos I have gathered regarding: GABI (Global Advisors Bitcoin Investment Fund) for anyone that may not have seen it. ANNOUNCEMENT FROM JERSEY GOV= http://www.gov.je/News/2014/Pages/CryptoCurrency.aspx
(Global Advisors Jersey Limited) Daniel Masters ( http://www.linkedin.com/pub/daniel-masters/8/939/197) Co-Principal and Portfolio Manager Director of Trading & Execution Daniel Masters started out in 1985 at Royal Dutch/Shell, where he was responsible for managing a portfolio of North Sea Crude. Moving to The Phibro Energy Division of Salomon, Inc. in 1987, he pioneered the firm’s entrance into the electricity markets. He structured groundbreaking natural gas deals and was an original participant in the “Contract for Difference” (CFD) market for physical oil in Europe. J.P. Morgan hired him in 1993 to add trading expertise to its array of financial capabilities. Based on Danny’s success in establishing a proprietary trading program, Morgan promoted him to head its global energy trading business in 1997. Russell Newton( uk.linkedin.com/pub/rus-newton/0/419/371) Co-Principal and Portfolio Manager Director of Systematic Model Research & Development Russell Newton began his career as a crude oil trader for Royal Dutch/Shell in 1986. As head of Shell’s futures and forwards trading, he was one of the original developers of pricing models for the Brent CFD market. Rus also worked for The Phibro Energy Division of Salomon, Inc. and Rhein Oel Limited before joining J.P. Morgan in 1993. At Morgan, he served as global commodities strategist, covering base and precious metals as well as energy. He developed a new derivative trade structures and new techniques for researching, analyzing and modeling markets. J Mognetti( uk.linkedin.com/in/jmmognetti) Mr Mognetti is a director and shareholder of Global Advisors (Jersey) Limited. Mr. Mognetti is registered with the National Futures Association (NFA) as a Principal, an Associated Person , and a National Futures Association (NFA) associated member of Global Advisors (Jersey) Limited and is also approved as a Key Person of Global Advisors (Jersey) Limited by the Jersey Financial Services Commission (JFSC). Global Investment Bitcoin Investment Fund Ground Floor Liberation House Castle Street St Helier Jersey JE2 3AT http://www.globaladvisors.co.uk/The Company seeks to achieve capital appreciation through direct and indirect exposure to Bitcoins and Bitcoin related markets.
If profitable opportunities arise, the Company will also invest in certain other commodity markets, including precious metals, oil and other forms of money (such as FX) as required to meet its investment goals whilst enhancing the Company’s ability to manage its liquidity requirementsIntro video if you have not seen it = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMN03xti4pkPartnersCarey Olsen as legal advisers led by James Mulholland - http://www.careyolsen.com/locations/jersey/Moore Management as fund administrator http://www.mooremanagement.com/Netagio and Elliptic as providers of custody services "to strengthen and enhance our fund offering." https://secure.netagio.com/ Netagio. The first British Bitcoin, gold & sterling exchange. + https://www.elliptic.co/ Company formation and registration details https://www.jerseyfsc.org/registry/documentsearch/NameDetail.aspx?Id=297268
The fund will operate within the Collective Investment Funds (Jersey) Law 1998 as an "Expert Fund"of which you can find a copy here = http://www.jerseyfsc.org/pdf/schedule_2_codes_for_certified_funds_august_2011.pdf
........Interestingly enough the company that I used to work for who are based in Jersey, who have since merged and then morphed and changed names several times.. was most likely involved in advising the government (and others) in writing the Collective Investment Funds (Jersey) Law 1998, and I also worked at the same company as one of the other members of the team at GABI ,one of the non exec directors, albeit I never met the guy from memory.... ..small world  Edit: actually the same company also advised quite a few other governments too over the years in various aspects of Taxation law and Financial and International Finance law/International law and the like, they get around, highly respected in their field and everything they touched was solid as a rock....huh really small world... looking around I see 6 or 7 people from one company I worked for (Jersey/London based) are now working in and with Bitcoin related businesses, even one guy working for one of the GABI partners. |
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Why the fuck is everyone making fun of GABI? They are probably just another front for JPMorgan (like the Fed is) that want to make crazy money shorting bitcoin into the dirt ... people wanted Wall St. in Bitcoin ... well here they are kids, what do you think now? Want 6 more months of short manipulation by the best bots dollars can buy? Hmmm I think it is more Blythe (Masters) , Daniels ex wife that you would want to be concerned about in that respect (somebody say silver?) |
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Why the fuck is everyone making fun of GABI?
In my case, it is because they just said "we expect N millions in the first year" or something to that effect. For what i know, they can be 3 20-something in a 100 bucks a month office, rolling thumbs and wishing a lot. That being said, i'm bullish short, medium and long term .. I have even posted it here 3 times in the past two days.... C.Vs, Bios, contact details, past experience, the lot... they are far from three 20 year olds... impressive team.. and impressive partners.... regulated fund with some oversight.... is quite interesting.. and also , connected to the nines ... they know already where the money $200 mill approx is coming from imo...and they most likely already have it.. besides it is not just a Bitcoin fund as they clearly state These guys are pro's .... not just a bunch of guys on reddit... and they are operating in a very interesting neck of the woods... Edit (Global Advisors Jersey already trade around 2bn in energy and equities +) Edit (Also ... they are going to open a "US" "companion fund" I do believe) here is the link again : (not the empty box the date)
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I heard a rumor that GABI want to invest a zillion Zimbabwe dollars, if they manage to find a Cessna to carry the banknote to Jersey Island. Their fund manager is one Mr. Ciccio Pasticcio, of renowned fame because he can light a cigar with a lighter and a fart.
Why the fuck is everyone making fun of GABI? First of all, if they started taking investment money yesterday - that money has to be sent, received, processed and THEN it can be used to buy bitcoins - whenever the fund DECIDES to make that investment. Even with SecondMarket is wasn't immediate. So we won't know the effects of that fund for quite some time, imo. For these factors AND because I am sure some investors are saying to themselves, lets see how far down this market goes before I send my funds to invest. When SecondMarket came online, we were already in an uptrend for a couple of months. Then it escalated quickly and a lot of money chased bitcoin right into the fund. GABI is coming online in a down trend. Chances are, its not going to grow as fast in the beginning. When the day comes we are in an uptrend again for a few months, then Id expect GABI's liquidity to increase greatly. I think Masters & co already know where their $ investors are coming from, most of them anyway, and most likely have their ducks in a row... |
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Isn't GABI supposed to be investing billions of dollars into bitcoin right now?
Does anyone know whether the Jersey regulations require that full status reports and/or independent audits of investment funds to be published periodically? Or will those reports be available only to investors? To answer your question as it does not really say too much about audting and reporting in the collective investment funds (Jersey) law 1998 link, however I believe I can answer your question anyway For recognized funds (I believe that Expert funds are the same in terms of reporting requirements) the annual and half-yearly audited financial statements and portfolio statements and reports prescribed by the RF Order must be made available to investors and sent out within: four months of the relevant period’s end in the case of an annual report. two months of the periods end in the case of a semi-annual report (An unregulated fund which is a company must send annual audited financial statements to investors and file them with the Commission) +
https://www.jerseyfsc.org/registry/documentsearch/NameDetail.aspx?Id=297268Name: GLOBAL ADVISORS BITCOIN INVESTMENT FUND PLC Registered Office: Ground Floor Liberation House Castle Street St Helier Jersey JE2 3AT Registration number: 115205 Registration date: 12-Mar-2014 Year End: 30-Jun Law: Companies (Jersey) Law 1991 Business Code: RCP Business Type: RCP - Registered Public Company Status: Live Public companies must file with the Registrar of Companies a signed copy of the accounts for each financial period together with a copy of the report thereon by the auditors |
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Isn't GABI supposed to be investing billions of dollars into bitcoin right now?
Does anyone know whether the Jersey regulations require that full status reports and/or independent audits of investment funds to be published periodically? Or will those reports be available only to investors?
/\ CLICK ON THE LINK TO MY POSTING (September 01, 2014, 11:32:32 AM) /\ There is a link nearer the bottom for the regulations in question, and more info on the guys running it and the partners involved etc, GABI comes under the "Collective Investment Funds (Jersey) Law 1998" and is listed as an "expert fund"
FOR YOUR PERUSAL..
(I thought that it would be up your street Jorge)
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Poor guy.  Ok! Now think about the same news but interchanging the husband with the wife....is it still funny? inb4: omg! rape rape! sexism! women are opressed! etcetcetc.not so funny the other way around... ... the female to male way around though.... .....dating a nympho is both rewarding, tiring , and tbh can be disturbing too... pros and cons... it is all funny and games til the bunny is in the pot, then not so |
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You're not alone. I also feel these stories are manufactured. It is not what I experience with other people.
Sure, some of them are in doubt, but others are at the brink of buying their first bitcoin because of my enthusiastic talk about it.
can you explain me how to explain the long decline to them? -20% in the last 30 days are not very enthusiastic... +5% shorts in 24 hours could be an opportunity and the much needed momentum upwards... look at the history broader than 30 days .. also look at the history broader than the last 9 months. Maybe also explain diversification and only investing your comfort level rather than investing either balls to the wall or expectations to get rich quickly? Even though you may be a trader or others may want to attempt to get rich through trading, most people lose a lot of money through trading and a more sound dollar cost averaging system should be contemplated and employed.. in other words buying and holding.. and investing in small increments. that's more or less what i always said...don't get me wrong with my bearishness...maybe a few percent and i'm bullish again...but right now after all the dumps and failed 'rallies' i am really disappointed... short term i am really bearish, mid term stagnating at best, long term the chances are 30:70 against a bitcoin rise... with that personal pov, the next time i meet some people to talk about bitcoins i will have to say that i lost a lot of money and maybe now is not a good entry point because more losses are expected there really has to be a rise soon or mass market adoption will fail, cause everyone will consider bitcoin as too dangerous or will forget about it i will hodl what is left but i will not consider buying more and i will explicitly make aware of the danger of losing all investments...i prefer that they say "why didn't you force me to buy" than "because of you i lost a shitload of money" When did you buy in? and how did you lose money? did you buy high and sell low? or get margin called? how exactly did you lose a lot of money? i don't see a point in giving especially you more ammo to shoot at me ?...... I am merely asking for you to clarify your statement that you have lost money? I am not sure how that is "ammo" to ask you to explain your statement in a way that people can understand that makes sense? other than a vague "I lost a lot of money" because that does not say much about Bitcoin on its own at all... I am asking how you managed to accomplish losing money ? was it buy high and sell low? or margin calls or bad trading? or are you sitting on unrealised losses, or are you talking hypothetical losses? (due to missing perfect hypothetical trades) It makes a LOT of difference, and your answer could give context and substance to your "I lost a lot of money because Bitcoin" statement.... more or less
25% buying high/hypothetical losses
25% bad trading
since it isn't just about the money the main problem is the loss of faith in the bitcoin market...
i even unignored fallling (and ignored again)
but i am only bearish since sunday...so with a lot of new shorts and a bit of stagnation some people will maybe get nervous and give the much needed momentum to the upside
thanks... but I am still unclear Does this mean that of the funds you have "lost" 25% buying high/hypothetical losses = So this means you have not actually lost anything with this 25% then ? ....yet and you say that part of the 25% was hypothetical i.e trades you could have made if you had perfect prevision?or were trading with hindsight? (which means that you did not actually lose anything there either? 25% bad trading - does this mean that you consistently nipped away at your net worth through bad trades? (did you keep buying high and selling low?) or did you make leveraged losses (or both?) Also of the money you have lost that only cover 50% how did you lose the other 50%? Also it does make all of the difference... it is the difference between saying "Bitcoin, will lose you money" and "I made some bad decisions/had bad luck trading Bitcoin" with the latter statement you could replace Bitcoin with "gold, silver, forex, stocks, etc etc i,e any trading instrument" and with the former, you are making a statement regarding Bitcoin itself. You make the statement about loss of confidence in the Bitcoin market, is this a personal statement? Having bought BTC a fair time ago... and held all the way through several previous rallies, and during ath and continuing to hold today, I would say that my confidence in the Bitcoin market is stronger than ever before... for many obvious reasons... I for one am experiencing no such loss of confidence... May I ask have you experience in trading pre Bitcoin? short term trading or mid term trading? any further clarifications ? |
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thanks...
but
I am still unclear
Does this mean that of the funds you have "lost"
25% buying high/hypothetical losses = So this means you have not actually lost anything with this 25% then ? ....yet and you say that part of the 25% was hypothetical i.e trades you could have made if you had perfect prevision?or were trading with hindsight? (which means that you did not actually lose anything there either?
25% bad trading - does this mean that you consistently nipped away at your net worth through bad trades? (did you keep buying high and selling low?) or did you make leveraged losses (or both?)
Also of the money you have lost that only cover 50% how did you lose the other 50%?
Also it does make all of the difference... it is the difference between saying "Bitcoin, will lose you money" and "I made some bad decisions/had bad luck trading Bitcoin" with the latter statement you could replace Bitcoin with "gold, silver, forex, stocks, etc etc i,e any trading instrument" and with the former, you are making a statement regarding Bitcoin itself.
You make the statement about loss of confidence in the Bitcoin market, is this a personal statement?
Having bought BTC a fair time ago... and held all the way through several previous rallies, and during ath and continuing to hold today, I would say that my confidence in the Bitcoin market is stronger than ever before... for many obvious reasons... I for one am experiencing no such loss of confidence...
May I ask have you experience in trading pre Bitcoin? short term trading or mid term trading?
Empowering: approximately when did you start buying BTC, and approximately what is your average per BTC buy in cost (including any admin/transaction fees)? $75 and under (though I did buy over that price but only to buy into certain alts here and there) (I may consider buying again in low $400 but if not then I am happy with what I have, and I am considering liquidating some of my alts back into BTC) I am going to attempt to resist developing "BTC buy-in price envy" It was not totally faultless... I did not buy tons.... I should have acquired many many many more than I actually did under those prices... Then after early/ mid last year I ran out of fiat to play with, and some personal reasons had to step back from investing/buying and now I also have other interests that take up my resources and due to various reasons I am not fiat flush atm... though I do have some dry powder for certain scenarios.. if it were not for the other rather pressing responsibilities and concerns I have in other aspects of my life, I would still be a buyer... however for now, I am, a hodler.... maybe buy the odd dip here and there, depending on what happens with some other things. I hold a few other coins in some fair numbers.. some of those are a bit daunting to look at.... but I have not lost anything on those yet either. |
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@empowering -- as an ex-finance man I thought you were a bit more into the numbers than all the cultist clap-trap -- is this what you did with your clients "don't worry about the APR, here's an amusing gif I found on the internet"? EDIT -- just saw the above post -- faith is seldom shaken when you are still making a 500% profit  I think I strike a nice balance on here of laughs and contribution... maybe that is just me... and also no... at work.... I was always stone cold serious.... I did not make many friends. Here though everyone is a friend |
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thanks...
but
I am still unclear
Does this mean that of the funds you have "lost"
25% buying high/hypothetical losses = So this means you have not actually lost anything with this 25% then ? ....yet and you say that part of the 25% was hypothetical i.e trades you could have made if you had perfect prevision?or were trading with hindsight? (which means that you did not actually lose anything there either?
25% bad trading - does this mean that you consistently nipped away at your net worth through bad trades? (did you keep buying high and selling low?) or did you make leveraged losses (or both?)
Also of the money you have lost that only cover 50% how did you lose the other 50%?
Also it does make all of the difference... it is the difference between saying "Bitcoin, will lose you money" and "I made some bad decisions/had bad luck trading Bitcoin" with the latter statement you could replace Bitcoin with "gold, silver, forex, stocks, etc etc i,e any trading instrument" and with the former, you are making a statement regarding Bitcoin itself.
You make the statement about loss of confidence in the Bitcoin market, is this a personal statement?
Having bought BTC a fair time ago... and held all the way through several previous rallies, and during ath and continuing to hold today, I would say that my confidence in the Bitcoin market is stronger than ever before... for many obvious reasons... I for one am experiencing no such loss of confidence...
May I ask have you experience in trading pre Bitcoin? short term trading or mid term trading?
Empowering: approximately when did you start buying BTC, and approximately what is your average per BTC buy in cost (including any admin/transaction fees)? $75 and under (though I did buy over that price but only to buy into certain alts here and there) (I may consider buying again in low $400 but if not then I am happy with what I have, and I am considering liquidating some of my alts back into BTC) (apart from that I have never sold a single BTC) |
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You're not alone. I also feel these stories are manufactured. It is not what I experience with other people.
Sure, some of them are in doubt, but others are at the brink of buying their first bitcoin because of my enthusiastic talk about it.
can you explain me how to explain the long decline to them? -20% in the last 30 days are not very enthusiastic... +5% shorts in 24 hours could be an opportunity and the much needed momentum upwards... look at the history broader than 30 days .. also look at the history broader than the last 9 months. Maybe also explain diversification and only investing your comfort level rather than investing either balls to the wall or expectations to get rich quickly? Even though you may be a trader or others may want to attempt to get rich through trading, most people lose a lot of money through trading and a more sound dollar cost averaging system should be contemplated and employed.. in other words buying and holding.. and investing in small increments. that's more or less what i always said...don't get me wrong with my bearishness...maybe a few percent and i'm bullish again...but right now after all the dumps and failed 'rallies' i am really disappointed... short term i am really bearish, mid term stagnating at best, long term the chances are 30:70 against a bitcoin rise... with that personal pov, the next time i meet some people to talk about bitcoins i will have to say that i lost a lot of money and maybe now is not a good entry point because more losses are expected there really has to be a rise soon or mass market adoption will fail, cause everyone will consider bitcoin as too dangerous or will forget about it i will hodl what is left but i will not consider buying more and i will explicitly make aware of the danger of losing all investments...i prefer that they say "why didn't you force me to buy" than "because of you i lost a shitload of money" When did you buy in? and how did you lose money? did you buy high and sell low? or get margin called? how exactly did you lose a lot of money? i don't see a point in giving especially you more ammo to shoot at me ?...... I am merely asking for you to clarify your statement that you have lost money? I am not sure how that is "ammo" to ask you to explain your statement in a way that people can understand that makes sense? other than a vague "I lost a lot of money" because that does not say much about Bitcoin on its own at all... I am asking how you managed to accomplish losing money ? was it buy high and sell low? or margin calls or bad trading? or are you sitting on unrealised losses, or are you talking hypothetical losses? (due to missing perfect hypothetical trades) It makes a LOT of difference, and your answer could give context and substance to your "I lost a lot of money because Bitcoin" statement.... more or less
25% buying high/hypothetical losses
25% bad trading
since it isn't just about the money the main problem is the loss of faith in the bitcoin market...
i even unignored fallling (and ignored again)
but i am only bearish since sunday...so with a lot of new shorts and a bit of stagnation some people will maybe get nervous and give the much needed momentum to the upside
thanks... but I am still unclear Does this mean that of the funds you have "lost" 25% buying high/hypothetical losses = So this means you have not actually lost anything with this 25% then ? ....yet and you say that part of the 25% was hypothetical i.e trades you could have made if you had perfect prevision?or were trading with hindsight? (which means that you did not actually lose anything there either? 25% bad trading - does this mean that you consistently nipped away at your net worth through bad trades? (did you keep buying high and selling low?) or did you make leveraged losses (or both?) Also of the money you have lost that only cover 50% how did you lose the other 50%? Also it does make all of the difference... it is the difference between saying "Bitcoin, will lose you money" and "I made some bad decisions/had bad luck trading Bitcoin" with the latter statement you could replace Bitcoin with "gold, silver, forex, stocks, etc etc i,e any trading instrument" and with the former, you are making a statement regarding Bitcoin itself. You make the statement about loss of confidence in the Bitcoin market, is this a personal statement? Having bought BTC a fair time ago... and held all the way through several previous rallies, and during ath and continuing to hold today, I would say that my confidence in the Bitcoin market is stronger than ever before... for many obvious reasons... I for one am experiencing no such loss of confidence... May I ask have you experience in trading pre Bitcoin? short term trading or mid term trading? |
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You're not alone. I also feel these stories are manufactured. It is not what I experience with other people.
Sure, some of them are in doubt, but others are at the brink of buying their first bitcoin because of my enthusiastic talk about it.
can you explain me how to explain the long decline to them? -20% in the last 30 days are not very enthusiastic... +5% shorts in 24 hours could be an opportunity and the much needed momentum upwards... look at the history broader than 30 days .. also look at the history broader than the last 9 months. Maybe also explain diversification and only investing your comfort level rather than investing either balls to the wall or expectations to get rich quickly? Even though you may be a trader or others may want to attempt to get rich through trading, most people lose a lot of money through trading and a more sound dollar cost averaging system should be contemplated and employed.. in other words buying and holding.. and investing in small increments. that's more or less what i always said...don't get me wrong with my bearishness...maybe a few percent and i'm bullish again...but right now after all the dumps and failed 'rallies' i am really disappointed... short term i am really bearish, mid term stagnating at best, long term the chances are 30:70 against a bitcoin rise... with that personal pov, the next time i meet some people to talk about bitcoins i will have to say that i lost a lot of money and maybe now is not a good entry point because more losses are expected there really has to be a rise soon or mass market adoption will fail, cause everyone will consider bitcoin as too dangerous or will forget about it i will hodl what is left but i will not consider buying more and i will explicitly make aware of the danger of losing all investments...i prefer that they say "why didn't you force me to buy" than "because of you i lost a shitload of money" When did you buy in? and how did you lose money? did you buy high and sell low? or get margin called? how exactly did you lose a lot of money? i don't see a point in giving especially you more ammo to shoot at me ?...... I am merely asking for you to clarify your statement that you have lost money? I am not sure how that is "ammo" to ask you to explain your statement in a way that people can understand that makes sense? other than a vague "I lost a lot of money" because that does not say much about Bitcoin on its own at all... I am asking how you managed to accomplish losing money ? was it buy high and sell low? or margin calls or bad trading? or are you sitting on unrealised losses, or are you talking hypothetical losses? (due to missing perfect hypothetical trades) It makes a LOT of difference, and your answer could give context and substance to your "I lost a lot of money because Bitcoin" statement.... |
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You're not alone. I also feel these stories are manufactured. It is not what I experience with other people.
Sure, some of them are in doubt, but others are at the brink of buying their first bitcoin because of my enthusiastic talk about it.
can you explain me how to explain the long decline to them? -20% in the last 30 days are not very enthusiastic... +5% shorts in 24 hours could be an opportunity and the much needed momentum upwards... look at the history broader than 30 days .. also look at the history broader than the last 9 months. Maybe also explain diversification and only investing your comfort level rather than investing either balls to the wall or expectations to get rich quickly? Even though you may be a trader or others may want to attempt to get rich through trading, most people lose a lot of money through trading and a more sound dollar cost averaging system should be contemplated and employed.. in other words buying and holding.. and investing in small increments. that's more or less what i always said...don't get me wrong with my bearishness...maybe a few percent and i'm bullish again...but right now after all the dumps and failed 'rallies' i am really disappointed... short term i am really bearish, mid term stagnating at best, long term the chances are 30:70 against a bitcoin rise... with that personal pov, the next time i meet some people to talk about bitcoins i will have to say that i lost a lot of money and maybe now is not a good entry point because more losses are expected there really has to be a rise soon or mass market adoption will fail, cause everyone will consider bitcoin as too dangerous or will forget about it i will hodl what is left but i will not consider buying more and i will explicitly make aware of the danger of losing all investments...i prefer that they say "why didn't you force me to buy" than "because of you i lost a shitload of money" When did you buy in? and how did you lose money? did you buy high and sell low? or get margin called? how exactly did you lose a lot of money? |
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If they guarantee X% minimum return in CNY, that is simply Huobi borrowing CNY at a fixed interest rate. So? If they guarantee X% minimum return in BTC, that is not "low risk" investment at all; and the deal will be most lucrative for Huobi if the BTC price drops. Anyway those 2000 BTC provided by the investors will be immediately sold for CNY to pay for the hardware expansion. Of course Jorge it is all that simple...
http://youtu.be/rFEGFEGMDBc |
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