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3041  Other / Off-topic / Re: [Announcement] Butterfly Labs on: September 12, 2012, 03:28:32 AM
BFGMiner was forked by you from cgminer. Simple fact. Please stop making yourself look ultimately stupid in front of everyone.
BFGMiner was forked from a cgminer that only supported CPUs and GPUs. Whilest Con was merging BFGMiner back into cgminer, I didn't bother with making independent-but-identical releases, but when he forked cgminer's FPGA codebase out from BFGMiner, I had to begin maintaining it independently. tl;dr: FPGA-capable cgminer is a fork of BFGMiner is a fork of GPU-only cgminer.
Eh? plenty of FPGA code was in cgminer LONG BEFORE BFGminer was created.
No, before BFGMiner, cgminer was CPU/GPU-only.
Seriously dude? WTF are you talking about?

The BFGMiner thread was created April 26, 2012, 10:53:51 PM
I came up with the name BFGMiner in IRC 01-Mar-2012 (UTC+11):

14:18 < kanoi> BFGMiner? Smiley
...
14:19 < kanoi> B for bitcoin of course Smiley
...
14:19 < kanoi> BFG the most well known acronym to FPS'ers Smiley
14:20 < kanoi> but also Bitcoin FPGA GPU Smiley


The original BFL code you wrote went into cgminer:
5dfc8b69 » luke-jr 2012-01-08 BitForce FPGA support
BFGMiner started on 2012-01-05 with me replacing the CPU and GPU miner threads with a device driver API (845961a..b9d197d). I'm well aware cgminer merged BFGMiner's changes up until Con forked it around when BFL announced ASICs. I obviously had no reason to make a thread or binaries until that point - it would have been redundant. Perhaps in hind-sight it would have made things easier when Con and you decided to stop merging, to have done that from the start.
While it's a bit cute how you think you came up with the name, you have it wrong: it's St. Barbara's FPGA/GPU Miner; St. Barbara is the patron Saint of mathematicians and miners - quite a nice fit to go along with St. Eligius (patron of coin minters and coin collectors).
3042  Other / Off-topic / Re: [Announcement] Butterfly Labs on: September 12, 2012, 02:01:21 AM
Except that while you claim to be inventing, you're forgetting that BFL support came from me, and you and Con only decided to fork it so that you could steal credit for it...
...
LOL, you got in there a little late.

BFGMiner was forked by you from cgminer. Simple fact. Please stop making yourself look ultimately stupid in front of everyone.
BFGMiner was forked from a cgminer that only supported CPUs and GPUs. Whilest Con was merging BFGMiner back into cgminer, I didn't bother with making independent-but-identical releases, but when he forked cgminer's FPGA codebase out from BFGMiner, I had to begin maintaining it independently. tl;dr: FPGA-capable cgminer is a fork of BFGMiner is a fork of GPU-only cgminer.
Eh? plenty of FPGA code was in cgminer LONG BEFORE BFGminer was created.
No, before BFGMiner, cgminer was CPU/GPU-only.

Quote
Where have I or Con ever stolen credit for work you have done?
Where? Where? Where?
Right in the post I quoted from. You were claiming to deserve stuff from BFL because you claim you wrote the driver for them.
Quote me - I'm not seeing it at all ...
[/quote]
You are saying that "need" is something I am inventing, but you know as well as I do that without the support of the free miners, BFL would not be where they are today.
3043  Other / Off-topic / Re: [Announcement] Butterfly Labs on: September 12, 2012, 01:28:27 AM
You are saying that "need" is something I am inventing, but you know as well as I do that without the support of the free miners, BFL would not be where they are today.
Except that while you claim to be inventing, you're forgetting that BFL support came from me, and you and Con only decided to fork it so that you could steal credit for it...
...
LOL, you got in there a little late.

BFGMiner was forked by you from cgminer. Simple fact. Please stop making yourself look ultimately stupid in front of everyone.
BFGMiner was forked from a cgminer that only supported CPUs and GPUs. Whilest Con was merging BFGMiner back into cgminer, I didn't bother with making independent-but-identical releases, but when he forked cgminer's FPGA codebase out from BFGMiner, I had to begin maintaining it independently. tl;dr: FPGA-capable cgminer is a fork of BFGMiner is a fork of GPU-only cgminer.

Where have I or Con ever stolen credit for work you have done?
Where? Where? Where?
Right in the post I quoted from. You were claiming to deserve stuff from BFL because you claim you wrote the driver for them.
3044  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: Decentralized mining protocol standard: getblocktemplate on: September 12, 2012, 01:22:56 AM
what is wrong with proposing a new way for miners to communicate with pools, it isn't like it is changing a Bitcoin protocol it is a mining change.
there is no single pool software everyone uses, there is no single mining software everyone uses - I for one am interested at looking at options.
The problem is more about when people don't work together with others. Everyone was (and is) welcome to contribute to the development of GBT, so why quietly reinvent an incompatible protocol on the side? GBT vs StratumMP is like W3c HTML/CSS vs Microsoft Internet Explorer "quirks" HTML/CSS.

The problem that slush and I were both addressing separately (though we wound up doing almost the exact same thing) was that POOLS will not be able to cope with ever increasing speeds, because pooled mining is using the standard getwork protocol that is used in bitcoin.

Our protocols were designed to be specific for pooled mining.  The primary Bitcoin project does not need to be polluted with new protocols and RPC commands for mining related purposes.  Bitcoin is not about mining, and developer time should be spent on more important features that matter.
GBT is primarily a pooled mining protocol, and does address the problem you mention perfectly, while also addressing other (arguably) more serious problems (centralized pool control).

I did the Stratum just because of my requirements, not because I wanted to compete with anybody. Let me explain it:

Actually I see the difference between Stratum and GMP as Electrum client and Satoshi client. You can achieve similar results with both of them, but every of such solution has pros and cons.
This analogy doesn't really make sense. Electrum and Satoshi implement things very differently. The only thing StratumMP really does differently from GBT is the protocol/communication syntax.

THere's really no need to have one super-protocol which fits all needs. ... I see GBT as very complex and very hard to implement full specs without breaking anything. Luke will say the oposite, but GBT has simply unnecesary compexity for the environment of pooled mining. You know, many optional features etc. But pooled miners don't need that. Period.
Pooled miners already need those features enough that they've been hacked on top of getwork for a long time. Probably no miner or pool implements full specs for all the getwork extensions, and that's fine for GBT as well. The important thing is that in cases where those features are needed, there is a consistent protocol for it rather than every pool/miner doing the same thing 5 different ways.
3045  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [ANN] Stratum mining protocol - ASIC ready on: September 12, 2012, 12:24:26 AM
I've written up a forum post for getblocktemplate; replies on that topic are probably off-topic on this thread.
3046  Bitcoin / Pools / Decentralized mining protocol standard: getblocktemplate on: September 12, 2012, 12:08:56 AM
The main topic is under Mining software (miners).
3047  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Decentralized mining protocol standard: getblocktemplate (ASIC ready!) on: September 12, 2012, 12:06:49 AM
Since Eleuthria and slush have both recently announced their own developed-behind-closed-doors mining protocols, I felt it appropriate to make a thread here for end-user discussion of the "getblocktemplate" standard which they intend to compete with. As a poolserver author, a pool operator, a miner author, and a contributor to the reference client, my life is not improved by having yet another protocol to support, and what's bad for the authors of the infrastructure tools is also bad for all their users.

Getblocktemplate Features

  • Decentralized: the miners decide what they will mine, and make their own blocks - no more blindly giving up mining control to pool operators
  • ASIC-ready: miners can produce as much work as they need with a single request
  • Usable yesterday: Eligius has supported it since February, and more pools real soon
  • Solo mining: just point your miner to bitcoind 0.7 and mine by yourself (no bitcoind load issues)
  • Simple: the basic implementation requires only minimal block building
  • Extensible: extensions are available today for miners who wish to take more control over their miners, and future improvements can easily be added later

Documentation

See the new Bitcoin Wiki page for getblocktemplate, with lots of useful resources including end user and developer documentation.

Technical specifications:
Supported by... (post or PM me to get yours added)

Poolservers (providing getblocktemplate to miners):
Mining software:
Libraries for mining software:
Mining pools:
History/Background

Getblocktemplate's origins trace back to forrestv's getmemorypool JSON-RPC method for bitcoind. He created it so that his pool (P2Pool) could piggy-back on bitcoind so as to avoid harming the Bitcoin network (up to this point, it mined only empty blocks that never confirmed transactions). Having been fighting with scalability problems in pushpool/bitcoind for months on my pool (Eligius), I set out to implement a fast pool server using getmemorypool to do its own block production (this became Eloipool, this first open source makes-its-own-blocks poolserver). Other poolservers also implemented block creation using getmemorypool over the months following.

At about the same time, interest in decentralizing pooled mining became a hot topic. While BitPenny had initially released its own decentralized mining proxy months prior, P2Pool's implementation became rapidly popular. Anyone involved in Bitcoin mining protocols could see the need to move control of block creation back into the hands of the miners. Unfortunately, both BitPenny and P2Pool had used very pool-specific proprietary protocols to implement their decentralization. On the other hand, getmemorypool was almost a perfect fit for the task - it just lacked support for the now-ubiquitous pooled mining extensions that had developed around the getwork protocol over time.

In February, I implemented and deployed a first draft of getmemorypool mining support in Eloipool (and on Eligius) along with a proof-of-concept getwork proxy (now known as gmp-proxy), adding revisions as needed to function as a general-purpose decentralized mining protocol. After I had confirmed it was working, I documented and proposed it on the Bitcoin development mailing list for review on February 28th, where discussion began on what was missing and what needed to be changed or clarified. During the following few months, a number of others, both developers and testers, provided constructive criticism and suggestions, which were integrated into the standard. I also actively encouraged participation in the development of the standard among pool operators and poolserver authors, especially as it became necessary to move forward into the ASIC "mining generation". Eventually, it was decided it would be best to rename it to the more appropriate "getblocktemplate" name and drop backward compatibility with getmemorypool for simplicity. The standard was split into two pieces and the technical specification can be found in BIP 22 and BIP 23.

Support for getblocktemplate mining was announced for BFGMiner a week ago, and is currently functional (implementing the basics is quite easy) though not entirely optimized yet. A number of other software developers and pools have told me they intend to add getblocktemplate support soon.

(side note: all of this occurred before Eleuthria or slush made their protocols public, and neither of them chose to participate in the open development of the getblocktemplate standard)

Contribute

All that being said, there is always room for improvement. Reception of the proprietary proposals strongly suggests getblocktemplate is in desperate need of good miner-side example documentation. If you have the time to help bring getblocktemplate to everyone sooner in any way, please get in touch Smiley

Thanks to... (in no particular order)
  • Forrest Voight
  • Pieter Wuille
  • Jeff Garzik
  • Gregory Maxwell
  • Geir Harald Hansen
  • Gavin Andresen
  • Stefan Thomas
  • Michael Grønager
  • ...anyone else I forgot to mention
3048  Other / Off-topic / Re: [Announcement] Butterfly Labs on: September 11, 2012, 11:44:13 PM
You are saying that "need" is something I am inventing, but you know as well as I do that without the support of the free miners, BFL would not be where they are today.
Except that while you claim to be inventing, you're forgetting that BFL support came from me, and you and Con only decided to fork it so that you could steal credit for it...

I overhauled Luke-jr's BFL code to make it more robust, but also slight more efficent (cpu usage wise).
P_Shep definitely did make notable contributions to the BFL driver. Smiley
3049  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [REQUEST] TO ALL POOL OPS on: September 11, 2012, 08:35:57 AM
  • *SMPPS are not hoppable at all.
  • *SMPPS has zero maturity time
  • *SMPPS has lower instability than PPS (which should be the most unstable)
Why didn't you bother to read the definition of the terms?
I did.

"Maturity time" means the time until the reward is received. If an SMPPS pool has a very negative buffer, it will take a long time for miners to get the reward for current mining.
That's not the definition used in the table.

"Instability" includes the severity of a collapse. If a PPS pool collapses nothing happens. If an SMPPS pool collapses miners can lose a lot of money.
No, if a PPS pool collapses, miners lose their due balances. If a SMPPS pool collapses, nothing happens, and nobody is out any money due.
3050  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [REQUEST] TO ALL POOL OPS on: September 11, 2012, 08:01:27 AM
  • "Pay orphans?" doesn't really make sense for *MPPS since it's PPS after all... Eligius does "pay orphans" in any case. I assume all the others do too, since I'm not really sure how to avoid it with *MPPS.
  • *SMPPS are not hoppable at all.
  • *SMPPS has zero maturity time
  • *SMPPS has lower instability than PPS (which should be the most unstable)

Thanks for the feedback Luke-Jr. I've fixed the Eligius listing. I agree that it would make sense that all *PPS and PPS variants would pay orphans, but unfortunately this is usually not seen in the intro post on this board - unless I see it stated specifically I've simply written "No" and hoped pool ops would correct me as necessary.

I'll only have room for one of your promo lines - which one would you like? And would you be able to post a quick explanation in the Mining pools list thread?

Thanks Luke-Jr!
Those weren't promo lines, they were corrections to your reward system graph...
3051  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [ANN] Stratum mining protocol - ASIC ready on: September 11, 2012, 06:23:31 AM
gmp-proxy has been functional on open source Eloipool-based pools for months.
To be honest, I don't understand how gmp-proxy works, so I'm unable to find out what the payload itself is. Cryptic variable names and not-a-single comment in the source code don't help the readability much.
Sure, gmp-proxy isn't exactly written to be readable - it's just a quick proxy cobbled together. Doesn't change the fact that it works. Wink

However you're still talking about payload, but it is just small fragment of the problem. I'm not sure how many connected users your pool has, but maybe keeping 10k+ connections from weird cpu miners will change your opinion. With the Stratum protocol, load is completely driven by the server, so I can handle these 10k connections with a single CPU core.
You have to keep 10k connections no matter what protocol you use over them, unless you're using UDP (which is a bad idea for other reasons). Long polling itself moves load to be server-driven, though that of course won't help the problem of announcing new blocks all at once no matter how you do it. A pool that doesn't want users to request new templates on their own could simply set the expiration on it to 90 minutes later and only return new ones via long poll responses. Besides, CPU mining is dead and will only get more dead as ASICs go online. There's no reason they can't continue to use getwork until they're gone completely.
3052  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [REQUEST] TO ALL POOL OPS on: September 11, 2012, 06:18:37 AM
  • "Pay orphans?" doesn't really make sense for *MPPS since it's PPS after all... Eligius does "pay orphans" in any case. I assume all the others do too, since I'm not really sure how to avoid it with *MPPS.
  • *SMPPS are not hoppable at all.
  • *SMPPS has zero maturity time
  • *SMPPS has lower instability than PPS (which should be the most unstable)
3053  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [ANN] Stratum mining protocol - ASIC ready on: September 11, 2012, 06:05:03 AM
Luke, nobody is saying that your baby is bad. I just think that BIP22/23 is too complex in parts which are irrelevant for pooled mining and it don't solve issues which are relevant there. So we're just solving another problem.
BIP 22/23 is only complex if you make use of the extensions that don't exist for StratumMP at all. If you don't, it's in fact just as simple (perhaps simpler).

But to have viable solution for real-world miners, you have to propose complete stack and step-by-step algorithm, which obvously BIP22/23 isn't at this time.
Block building is the same no matter what protocol conveys the data... if you're not happy with the current level of documentation, it makes more sense to improve it rather than just start from scratch.

For this reason I picked the best things lying around and knocked up this proposal & implementation, which can be used here and now.
gmp-proxy has been functional on open source Eloipool-based pools for months.
3054  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [ANN] Stratum mining protocol - ASIC ready on: September 11, 2012, 05:15:56 AM
Not sure this is really any different/better than the BIP 22/23 standards which have been in open development for months...
as for the comments on it in the Stratum mining protocol doc:
  • the fundamental BIP 22 operation is fairly easy to implement, just making use of the more advanced functionality (which StratumMP doesn't even support yet) is more complex
  • GBT does not require or depend on HTTP; it is intentionally designed to be JSON-RPC over any transport
  • GBT does not require a complete dump of the server's memory pool
  • checking shares shouldn't be any different AFAIK?

We don't need a VHS vs Betamax...
Perhaps it would have been a good idea for you and slush to participate in forming the standards instead of privately working on duplicate protocols? :/
3055  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Version 0.7.0 release candidate 1 ready for testing on: September 09, 2012, 09:02:01 PM
Together with multisig coin control is one of the most important features imho. No coin control is a deal breaker for me and potentially for anyone who ever used it...

It is not quite clear to me, could you/team please clarify if it is possible via rpc in 0.7?
You can use external software to create your own custom transactions via RPC now.
You cannot simply "sendfromaddress <fromaddr> <toaddr> <amount>".

Are there any plans for implementing the gui for it?
I suspect everyone would plan to merge it if anyone submitted a properly-designed and cleaned up GUI.
I suggested in another thread that those interested might set up a bounty, and/or hire a developer to get it done.
3056  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: CGMINER GPU FPGA overclock monitor fanspeed RPC linux/windows/osx/mip/r-pi 2.7.5 on: September 09, 2012, 05:04:49 PM
Hello everyone, I am using ckolivas's cg miner with an nvidia geforce gt520 and I don't believe I am getting the MH/s rates I shouls be getting as I am currently getting 10.4 - 14.3 MH/s which is pretty much the same speeds I get from my laptop cpu (intel t4400). My current command line is:

"cgminer.exe -o http://mint.bitminter.com:8332 -u c4n10 -p password --gpu-engine 800 --auto-fan --gpu-memclock 800 --gpu-vddc 0.900 --intensity 9"

Can someone please point me in the right direction? Thanks!
Sounds about right. nvidia is garbage
3057  Bitcoin / Mining software (miners) / Re: BFGMiner: modular FPGA/GPU, overclk/fans, scrypt, RPC, Linux/PPA/Windows 2.7.5 on: September 08, 2012, 08:36:51 PM
Is there a way to change pool priority or failover order without changing the order of the pools in bfgminer.conf? And is there a way to make this persist through a restart? I know by using the Switch Pool command, I can change the priority of one pool to 0, but that reverts after a startup, even if I write the conf again.
The RPC API has a poolpriority command I added to set the priority of all pools at once. If you want to open an enhancement Issue for a --pool-priority option, I can probablyl get that added for the next minor release (I might forget if there's no issue to track it).
3058  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [605 GH] Eligius: Decentralized, 0Fee SMPPS, no reg, BTC+NMC on: September 08, 2012, 05:02:41 AM
...and you're not including stats for orphaned blocks.
...
2. From a stats point of view there's no reason not to include shares for orphaned blocks and reasons to include them. Unless it's just not possible?
Orphaned blocks simply don't exist, so they don't really have stats... Shares go toward whatever the next block is found, regardless of any orphans in the meantime.
3059  Bitcoin / Pools / Re: [400GH/s] p2pool: Decentralized, DoS-resistant, Hop-Proof pool on: September 06, 2012, 12:56:24 AM
... or as I've stated before ...
Only transfer the block header, coinbase txn and merkle tree by default then get the recipient to say if it wants the transactions and which ones (a list) from the merkle tree.
Most bitcoinds already have ALL txn but the coinbase, so that is a massive waste and always has been.
Secondly, why are the txn's re-validated, shouldn't they have been validated when they were received the first time?

I'm certainly by far not an expert at this.. but I would assume that you there is a "trust no one" factor here, you can't safely assuming incoming transactions are validated already.
He meant the clients might have already seen the transaction broadcast before, so would have validated it themselves already. That is indeed already cached, but there are a lot of transactions that don't get seen by any given node (about 10% IIRC), and the back-and-forth of requesting missing transactions would add delays - though it might make sense on top of the basic block distribution parallelization I mentioned, but it will need to be benchmarked.
3060  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Version 0.7.0 release candidate 1 ready for testing on: September 06, 2012, 12:05:52 AM
It's my understanding that you reported multiple vulnerabilities fixed in 0.7.0rc1, each of which is assigned a different number.
Yes, you're right. These are not the same vulnerabilities that were fixed in 0.6.3, they may be the ones reported by me or other reported by somebody else, I don´t know.

CVE-2012-4682 and CVE-2012-4683 are two reported by you and fixed in 0.7rc1.
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