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I officially request that the NXTcommunityfund put out a bounty for the first person that successfully forges a block onto a simulated 300 GB NXT blockchain in a testbed setup. Full specifications of system used and documentation of experiences in accomplishing the task required to claim the reward.
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One thing is for sure a Turing-Complete Nxt would have much more marketing WOW than 1000 TPS Nxt.
I think everyone can clearly see that fact with Ethereum.
You cannot be serious with this statement. What percentage of people have even heard the phrase "Turing-Complete"? What percentage of people hate standing around waiting for that little machine to spit out their Visa slip? |
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Well, we have to admit that 1000TPS is still possible. For 1000TPS, 300GB blockchain is, maybe, freaking small. Don't you think?
I have no idea. I just know I'd rather have somebody in this thread educate me with a discussion of this topic instead of Turing complete languages. |
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1000 TPS is a theoretical number, in fact I'd wager that it would take at least 2 (possible more) years to have that many transactions per second. So no, you won't need 300GB available (per month).
Reaching it may be possible but to sustain it over a long period of time would be something else. 31 billion transactions if we could maintain 1000 TPS for a year. If we every reach this level then we're on MAR!....forget MOON!You get the causality wrong. Let me explain: One idea of Nxt was, theoretically, to be able to handle 1000TPS. To dethrone VISA maybe with their bullshit high fees. Some small shop owners lose 50% of there marge today because of VISA. Think about it. Now, Nxt is the saviour. If we want to get to the Mars/Moon, there needs to be something like "well, no problem, we can easily handle 1000TPS in the future if we want. Just some coding and done". <- This maybe leads to 1000 TPS in the future -> to the mars in the future. Not the other way around. btw visa handles 2000 TPS on average I believe. What do you mean with 4.25 tps to 1000 tps?
One of the killer features of Nxt is ability to process transactions at VISA rate (thousands per second). Btw, any ideas how much the price will rise after VCs realize that Nxt is able to process 1000+ tps? 10x is min, imho. 100x-1000x is more likely...
CfB, how could you push "1000 TPS" and "solving blockchain bloat" knowing it implied utilizing a 300 GB NXT monthly blockchain that's 20 times bigger than the one Bitcoin has right now? Your certainty on this point was part of the reason I assumed you guys had implemented JD Bruce's finite mini-blockchain idea... |
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I could state that my penis is forging too, because I leased my forging power.
Best quote in this thread. I'm gonna save it for future generations. Once you lease your penis' forging power, you are unable to create future generations. |
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Is the smartphone still a kind of node? I mean, does the smartphone add anything to the 'security' of nxt when it is running a lightweight client?
No. We conclude: This forging smartphone marketing thing is kinda bs. I could state that my penis is forging too, because I leased my forging power. The only difference, for example to BTC, is, that we can run a lightweight working client on our smartphones to make transactions, without the forging (and thus network securing) function. Bitcoin is at 7 TPS ...smartphones can easily handle that....I think high end smartphones (Note 3 or Iphone 5S) can easily handle 1000 TPS....if you have fast internet. Do you know for a fact that a NXT forging node can operate without having a local blockchain copy of 300 GB? I don't know that, and nobody has told me that. Somebody tell me that. And my smartphone doesn't have 300 GB of storage. And I couldn't afford to load that much data over the air anyway just to forge 1 NXT. |
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Why not focus on DE rather than this 1000(or 100) TPS?
Do you need that much horsepower (100TPS or more) when you have a Distributed Exchange?
To me DE seems much more attractive.
(note: talking from a layman's perspective)
The true layman is going to first come in contact with NXT at Crypsy. Only an already-sold NXT enthusiast is going to have a NXT client that supports Distributed Exchange. Again I say, our second highest bounty and our second highest team identification effort (after blockchain) should be a hand-in-hand approach to work with Cryptsy IT folks on a data/software bridge to get NXT on Cryptsy NOW! |
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And the team and the bounty that is working on a pruning algorithm RIGHT NOW to support a 300 GB Blockchain (holy crap!) is?  ? Is this more important or less important that selecting a Turing complete language for NXT??? My vote is obvious. Turing complete language is just for fun. Blockchain pruning / minimization is for survival. |
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Maybe Nxt should aim for a more conservative 100 TPS to avoid ending up looking very silly in a few months time.
100 TPS is a good number too. After we test this rate we will see if it's feasable to add one zero more. 100 TPS is still a lot of transactions...8.64 million in 24 hours. Dude. We still need blockchain pruning capability and we need it NOW. And we need to dial back our claims if we are dialing back our expectations, and we need to dial those claims back NOW. |
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I want to have a nuts and bolts, meat and potatoes discussion about what infrastructure it's gonna take to support 1000 TPS. I say we currently can't get there from here. Somebody prove I'm full of crap. Please.
I think that Shrinking is enough to solve bloated blockchain issue. If u do it every month then u'll need only 300 GiB storage. And the team and the bounty that is working on a pruning algorithm RIGHT NOW to support a 300 GB Blockchain every month (holy crap!) is? ? Is this more important or less important that selecting a Turing complete language for NXT??? My vote is obvious. |
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whats the story with vertcoin?? 400 odd percent gain there the last day and 2xx odd percent today??? wtf?
As what i knew it was listed in cryptsy recently And our second biggest bounty (after creating a finite mini-blockchain) should be to the team that is working hand in hand with the Cryptsy folks to create the software / data bridge necessary to get NXT on Cryptsy ASAP. Who is this team? Why have we not organized it? Why are we not talking in this forum about their progress? |
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We don't need as less instructions as possible. We need a usable language.
Indeed I had thought that was what you *meant* (rather than what you actually said).  Do you agree that it should have op codes for things like SHA256 and what about the whole problem of the impact of running said scripts on the TPS rate? In any case, since 1000TPS is bandwidth limited, we dont really have any CPU bottleneck issues, unless you actually want to calculate crypto functions in the script instead of pushing it down with the script embedded in the AM I don't think 1000 TPS is bandwidth limited, I think it is blockchain bloat limited. As I've said before, 1000 TPS at 128 bytes per transaction is 10 GB added to the blockchain EVERY DAY if it is storing every transaction. Anybody claim that math is wrong? If that's correct, who is storing a complete copy of the blockchain? It's not "service providers", since CfB has specifically said that "service providers" are not necessary for 1000 TPS. I don't think it's going to be a Raspberry Pi or smartphone when its turn comes to forge a node - unless NXT blocks can be added to the NXT blockchain without a node having a complete local copy in memory? Can somebody clarify to me whether or not this is true or possible? On page one post one of this very thread we claim "Nxt improves different features of Bitcoin, removes some disadvantages (e.g. bloated blockchain)" and "Blockchain Shrinking - In progress". I claim that if "moving from JSON to binary to achieve 128 byte transaction size on the blockchain" is our only bullet in this area, then NXT has big problems. I had privately assumed (which in this case has made an ass of me and me alone) that NXT was incorporating JD Bruce's brilliant idea of a finite sized block chain based only on current account balances instead of historical transaction data. Both CfB and serveral others including one I thought was BCNext were in on this idea at its inception, which from a timing standpoint was four to six months before NXT was announced. I thought finite mini-blockchain (along with transparent PoS forging) was the secret sauce in NXT. Even JD himself takes note of NXT moving in this direction: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=371601.msg3976934#msg3976934Looks like I was wrong about that. JD Bruce himself has a $20K bounty out to create the first finite mini-blockchain. March 2013 thread: Re: Blockchain-less P2P Currency (theoretical idea) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152662.40April 2013 thread: Cryptocurrency with Finite "Mini-Blockchain" https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=169311.20May 2013 Paper: Purely P2P Crypto-Currency With Finite Mini-Blockchain http://www.bitfreak.info/files/pp2p-ccmbc-rev1.pdfMay 2013 thread: Re: Building the Next Generation of Crypto-Currency (developers required) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=215936.0If BCNext and JLP and CfB have not already implemented a finite mini-blockchain behind the scenes, IMHO we need to issue our own NXT bounty for it, make it the biggest bounty we offer, and bump it to the top of our NXT add-on priority wish, WAY above adding yet another of these "services" we keep talking about. The blockchain is the fundamental foundation of NXT. If we have not solved the blockchain bloat problem already (as we claim), we either do solve it in the future or we die. I hope either somebody challenges me successfully on that point, or that we get our act together and start working on what's critical to our survival. Who stores the complete 1000 TPS block chain? Just how big can it get? How do we prune this blockchain? When and how often? Can we make it finite sized and based on account balances and not transaction history? Please don't let me have brought this topic up yet again only to be ignored while the discussion veers off into something esoteric like which Turing complete instruction set to bolt onto NXT. I want to have a nuts and bolts, meat and potatoes discussion about what infrastructure it's gonna take to support 1000 TPS. I say we currently can't get there from here. Somebody prove I'm full of crap. Please. |
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rickyjames: you failed at reading CfB's quiz  Sigh. I'm not as clever as I think. |
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CfB, your memory fails you.
Maybe. I don't pay much attention to names, mainly to ideas. Btw, this guy speaks Russian. Does BCNext? |
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OK.
I think BTNext's previously used BCT username was/is Ukigo.
FALSE. I don't even recall/know this name. CfB, your memory fails you. You had several exchanges with Ukigo on March 14, 2013 in the initial thread JD Bruce (bitfreak!) started to discuss his mini-blockchain idea. Re: Blockchain-less P2P Currency (theoretical idea) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=152662.40JD went on to create another thread in April you did not participate in: Cryptocurrency with Finite "Mini-Blockchain" https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=169311.20And published his whitepaper on the mini-blockchain idea in May 2013: Purely P2P Crypto-Currency With Finite Mini-Blockchain http://www.bitfreak.info/files/pp2p-ccmbc-rev1.pdfAnd then offered a $20K bounty in another May 2013 thread to actually implement the idea (note the title): Re: Building the Next Generation of Crypto-Currency (developers required) https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=215936.0I believe that Ukigo/BCNext took his initial contact with this idea (and perhaps with you?) and instead of going for the bounty offered by JD, used the mini-blockchain idea instead to start NXT. On April 27 Etlase2 started a new thread about a PoS coin called Decrits Decrits: The 99%+ attack-proof coin https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=189239.0You, CfB, posted a comment on the very first day. So did Ukigo, on the topic of achieving Shareholder consensus: 100% consensus of Shareholders is a myth. There will be majority and minorities. Maybe at every CB. Of course you can have 100% agreement, but only after disagreeing minorities got decimated by some mechanism Wink By August Etlase2 and Ukigo are writing code that sounds very NXTish and effectively vanish: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=189239.500The NXT [ANN] goes up on September 28: [ANN] Nxt :: descendant of Bitcoin https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=303898.1660BCNext registered that username on Sept 27 and made the last posting under it on November 8. During that period Ukigo made no postings. There's more. FWIW. |
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Let me clarify. I do not claim to know his REAL identity either. However, BCNext himself has acknowledged being a long time poster at BCT under another user ID. I believe I know that BCT user ID. Do you know that?
If so, one day I will send you an anonymous message on the NXT blockchain revisiting this topic.
Let's play the game but we fix the weak points in such a way: 1. U post ur guess in this thread, I'll answer it publicly as well. 2. I tell TRUE or FALSE according to my guess regarding the real identity of BCNext. PS: And then u'll tell why u think so, ok? OK. I think BTNext's previously used BCT username was/is Ukigo. |
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CfB, let's play a game. I have a very good theory on who BCNext is. I would like to send you a PM with just a name in it, no long paragraphs or words, just a name, just this one time and I only get just this one chance. I will not pester you with follow up guesses. If I have correctly deduced who BCNext is, I give you my word that I will keep it a secret and communicate it to no one online or offline. I only want the satisfaction of knowing my detective / research skills are good... or not. If I send you this PM, will you tell the community if I am right or if I am wrong?
2 weak points in ur proposal: 1. U assume that ur PM won't be read by forum admins. 2. U assume that I know the real identity of BCNext. Let me clarify. I do not claim to know his REAL identity either. However, BCNext himself has acknowledged being a long time poster at BCT under another user ID. I believe I know that BCT user ID. Do you know that? If so, one day I will send you an anonymous message on the NXT blockchain revisiting this topic. EDITED TO ADD: Thank you for not listing me possibly not keeping my word as a weak point in my proposal.  |
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BCNext = Beyonce comes Next = Come from Beyonce ??
U could ask rickyjames to find BCNext and ask who he is...  Some things in life are better left with an air of mystery about them. CfB, let's play a game. I have a very good theory on who BCNext is. I would like to send you a PM with just a name in it, no long paragraphs or words, just a name, just this one time and I only get just this one chance. I will not pester you with follow up guesses. If I have correctly deduced who BCNext is, I give you my word that I will keep it a secret and communicate it to no one online or offline. I only want the satisfaction of knowing my detective / research skills are good... or not. If I send you this PM, will you tell the community if I am right or if I am wrong? |
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as if we are some blind religion that should just have blindfaith in NXT and it's creator, no matter what.
Seems we r. BCNext does his best to influence as little as possible but we still ask for his Second Coming... I am happy to ask for just his source code and some idea of what the starting point is to improve it. That starting point is his ending point. He won't tell us his ending point at this time. Therefore we have to wait. Once the source code is released in early April, it will be a disaster to continue the way we are. We cannot plot as a community what additions to make to the released NXT baseline unless they are coordinated with the current core devs. This is why I asked how many of them will still be working full time on NXT in May. You said you don't know. We certainly don't know. So we've got to wait. I've got to tell you, all this talk of tricks and traps and obscure gotchas embedded in the code does not inspire me that it is going to be straightforward for the community to extend NXT even as the main path, much less a competitor fork. |
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when skynet will be ready? genesis account will come alive in block 150.000 ?
Skynet is ready. BCNext won't release it until he is satisfied with distribution of coins. Um...what is Skynet? (In the NXT sense of that term?) |
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