But if downloading is free, aren't you just inviting 100% utilization of the available bandwidth?
For instance, if I'm hosting partial data, and Netflix decides to house all their motion pictures for streaming on the service. That would mean those hosting the data would be delivering that data constantly, and it sounds like potentially multiple times if the file is very popular. In exchange for a few dollars a month? The economics of that won't work for most people. Especially if their Internet is being bogged down by all the requests for data on their services.
Granted, Netflix isn't realistic, but this is just an example. The point being that there is no penalty for downloading, so everyone can expect their bandwidth to be 100% eaten once they've acquired the files. Plus, what's the incentive to hold old files? If I get paid when new stuff is created, and paid when stuff is uploaded. Why would I then hold old data? Wouldn't I be better off clearing that data away to make room for more new data? Storing and distributing it doesn't appear to benefit me at all.
Very good questions that came up in several topics >> https://safenetforum.org/t/free-gets-arent-going-to-fly/5836 The network uses "caching". So you run a Vault and get a request from a Vault you are connected with for chunk "ABC". You ask another Vault for that same chunk as you don't have it. In XOR it will take between 3 to 7 steps until the right Vault with chunk "ABC" is found. So that Vault sends the chunk to the Vault that requested the chunk. So it might take 3 to 7 steps before it ends up at the Vault who requested it. What just happened?? 1 Vault (who stored chunk "ABC") got paid some Safecoin. The other 3 to 7 nodes now have the chunk in cache. So if it's requested by others they can deliver in an instant. So the more popular a file becomes on SAFE the faster it get's downloaded. And if you take a 1000 mb. movie for example. It's spread over at least 3000 nodes. So the load for this movie is balanced by design. So the Vaults always help each other with asking and delivering chunks. 1 moment a Vault in the US farmed some Safecoin, next time it's you. If you only made 3 dollar after a month of running would you still want to be run a Vault?? Nope, you would shut it down. And as more people do this, the Farming Reward goes up. So now you can make 5 or 6 dollar a month. Not enough? Well, don't start your Vault! Wait for good prices. And look at Netflix, they can deliver a lot of GB's for like 8 dollar a month. So I expect a lot of small companies (like design studio's with fast fiber) to run Vaults 24H a day as they can make money on it. BitTorrent isn't making anyone money but still people upload and seed stuff like maniacs. I guess with some coins to be made they even seed more. |
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Yes, that's 1 example. Take Germany, if they catch you downloading some torrents they offer you a 800 euro "settlement" so you wont be brought to court. People are scared to use P2P in that country. And a lot of people hate the big power of Facebook, Google, and the others. They want their have their own "decentralized Youtube" and social media. So if SAFE works the way it's intended people use Apps on their phones without even noticing it's a P2P technology.
Now will people need to buy safecoins to download data from the network? Or just to store data? If free to download, people may use it in lieu of downloading torrents. The issue then is if anyone would be willing to pay (in safecoins) to just give away files... what is their incentive? Downloading from the network will always be free. You only need to pay when you want an account, register a domain or PUT (upload) data to the network. On BitTorrent nobody get's paid for anything. On SAFE everybody who delivers chunks to the network get's paid. That's the trick, when you deliver chunks out of your Vault to the network, like the real chunks your address in XOR is close to, you Farm some safecoin. These coins are created for you when you Farm. If someone uploads data to the network, they have to pay. The coins are then "un-owned" again so free for future farmers to Farm them again. So coins are recycled when someone uploads to the network. So this is it: - Run a Vault (be a "seeder" on the network) and the network pays you. That's a great incentive
- Run the Client to upload data to the network and you pay the network
- Run the Client to upload "dynamic data" and you pay the network a bit more
- Run the Client and register a domain name and you pay the network
due to an incentive for running a Vault, a lot of people will. It's like getting Bitcoins for being a seeder on BitTorrent. And each mb. has at least 3 to 5 seeders. So for a 2000 mb. file we have like 10.000 nodes storing and delivering chunks in the hope to make some money. So you never pay someone directly for storing data. The network does. And as a user you pay the network (give up the coins so someone else can farm them later on). But as a user you can use Safecoin for whatever you like. Tip someone, pay someone etc. Safecoin transactions are expected to take less than a second. Including all the confirmations. |
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zeeman are you in dev team or you just a maidsafe lover? actually ive seen u are around here all the time. a maid true lover.
No not dev. I hang out on the forum and really like the idea of SAFE so follow them closely. Wish I could program myself and help them out. But it's quite some technical stuff. Already takes me time to understand a XOR-network as I wasn't familiar with Kademlia or something. |
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You don't have to spend a dollar to use the network. Just start a Vault on your computer and let it run for some time. After you made some safecoin that way you could store data, tip someone, register a domain, and more. Do you have a nice blog? Add a tip-button and see the Safecoin come in.
Browsing the network will always be free, no need to have an account.
I brought up the show Silicon Valley in relation to this project earlier, and I wonder if it might not turn out similar. Basically nobody might care about being 'secure', or decentralized websites, or storing their data, but the project may find a niche somewhere else. Distributing video/software (illegally) over a decentralized network... maybe? Yes, that's 1 example. Take Germany, if they catch you downloading some torrents they offer you a 800 euro "settlement" so you wont be brought to court. People are scared to use P2P in that country. And a lot of people hate the big power of Facebook, Google, and the others. They want their have their own "decentralized Youtube" and social media. So if SAFE works the way it's intended people use Apps on their phones without even noticing it's a P2P technology. |
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Another thing , If only people who provide resources will get paid , what would anyone buy the coin as there is no demand ? (unless people who use the network will have to pay coins as well)
Spend Safecoins to store data on the network, paid Safecoin options for more features on apps, buy and sell Safenet domains or IDs, pay Safecoin for programs or services, etc. Safecoin will be very expensive after the main net is live. Like you said, ppl will use this service for decentralized internet, they need to biy safecoin. The network adapts to the price of Safecoin. So if the price is high, a lot of people will try to "farm" coins to sell them. The network detects that and the reward for every delivered chunk (Farming Reward) goes down. Same the other way around: if a lot of people try to farm coins, there are lot of resources available. If there isn't that much money to make people will stop farming. You don't have to spend a dollar to use the network. Just start a Vault on your computer and let it run for some time. After you made some safecoin that way you could store data, tip someone, register a domain, and more. Do you have a nice blog? Add a tip-button and see the Safecoin come in. Browsing the network will always be free, no need to have an account. |
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I have a question regarding the Safecoin , according to the Website , there will be only 4.3 billion coins in circulation at one time . I would like to understand what "at one time" means exactly ? Is it like Bitcoin where 21 million coins will ever be created ? or does it mean that If some coins get lost,burned or whatever , more will be created ? Another thing , If only people who provide resources will get paid , what would anyone buy the coin as there is no demand ? (unless people who use the network will have to pay coins as well) Yes, it's like the limit with Bitcoin. No more can be created on the system, but it will take over a 100 years to fill it all up. In SAFE a Safecoin is "owned" or "not owned". When you upload data to the network you need to give up ownership of some Safecoin. So it goes from "owned" to "not owned". If you deliver a Chunk from your vault to the network you might earn Safecoin. In that case the close nodes look if a random address is "owned" or "not owned". If it's "not owned" you become the owner and you just Farmed some SAFEcoin. If you spend it to store some data you give up ownership again. So when 50% of all coins are owned the change of you farming a Safecoin goed down 50%. The Network changes the value per deliver chunk as well. Same for the price to PUT data to the network. So one day you might own 0.0001 Safecoin per MB. A month later when more people provide resources it could be lower than that. If there's no demand?? Same for Gold, Dollar or Bitcoin. The price goes down I think. You can always use it to store data on the network. If the price becomes very low a lot of people will stop farming. The network notice and the reward for delivering data to the network goed up. the network will always balances itself. @chinchs
Getting listed on BTTF have some prerequisites? what's the money for? Development only? Thx Yes, it's for development. They have around 15 people working for them. Most of them devs. |
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MaidSafe's funding begins on 12th September and runs for 30 days. The target is £1.75m-£2m which will be received in sterling and bitcoin. Nick Lambert, chief operating officer, MaidSafe told IBTimes UK: "This is a raise for equity as opposed to a coin sale. It's most certainly not crowdfunding. I may be confused, but didn't they also have early funding for all of those years of development, before they even did the Maid ICO (coin)? Just wondering how much of the company they even have left to sell anymore. After a certain number of funding rounds, one would think there wouldn't be much left to offer, or it turns into a Producers scenario. Yes, they had investors before 2014. They're selling around 6% of the company in this round. Uber is at round 17 or something. And even when companies are listed on the stock exchange they still sell some fresh printed shares now and then. Tesla has done it several times, but investors don't like it when a company is listed on the stock market. They rather have buybacks  .  LINK |
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Ok, so how does this work ? Do the investors get MAID for their investment ?? Or just shares ? I'm a little confused here... I thought we MAID hodlers are already the investors Projects like Ethereum, Maidsafe and others crowdfunded in 2014 by selling coins which have use on their networks. These coins could be seen as a presale of a product. They don't hold any shareholder rights in a company. This way of funding with Banktothefuture do give people shareholder rights. Via a SVP people become shareholder of the company. So a number of projects like Factom, BitPesa, Shapeshift and soon Maidsafe sell a part of their company to investors that become shareholders. No new coins are created or sold. Here's a list of projects on BTTF for those interested. |
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Yeah...ok dude
Not fudding anything, just making observations
And MAID will be very big when they go live with the SAFE network
No fudders can change that
I just have no confidence that MAID will ever actually be used for anything. It reminds me of the HBO show Silicon Valley (data is shared in tiny pieces amongst all other users) ... nice tech, but either too complicated for the regular user, or nobody has a real need for it. Safecoin will be quite different from Bitcoin as it doesn't use a blockchain. No need for all nodes to share a transaction. So Safecoin transactions are expected to take place in under a second. That's at least 600 times faster than Bitcoin. These coins do have a use, think of it like BitTorrent where you get paid to be a "seeder". In this case you don't have to open a torrent file to seed it, but encrypted chunks end up in your Vault where they're requested now and then. The chunks are created by the software and won't bother the user in any way as they don't notice. They just upload a file and share it with others, and other just rightclick and choose "safe as". To me it's the next logical step after BitTorrent. Even better people can build a "youtube" or "facebook" on top of it. |
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Great critique. Absolutely devastating to the hopium overdose pipe dream of Maid creating some kind of new, post-Bitcoin cryptography. I've been saying Maid is nothing more than 1990s era Gnutella/Freenet/Kademlia DHT, with trendy "MOAR BLOCKCHAIN" glued on for marketing/fundraising purposes. Now we have confirmation of that assertion, from a former Maid dev: I do not see any advancements from existing distributed storage
networks.
The C++ code required that every node in the quorum group
receive and successfully process messages in identical order, and a
node making a request assumed the first "quorum-size" messages received
were from the quorum. I do not know how they intend to properly keep
the group in consensus with p2p churn, and they had a non-implemented
solution for the group verification which [Christophe Aguettaz
discovered would likely have security issues][0]. The Rust code
currently mirrors the C++ code in these two areas, and potential
solutions to the problems are vague.  |
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Earning Coins ?
Can I currently earn Maidsafe's coins by downloading and running their software on my computer?
I ask because I have a computer currently that is not being used. If so what and where can I find what I am suppose to download.
Please advise,
Thanks so much,
Ed, aka-mcptrman
No, you have to wait until Safecoin is implemented and Farming is active. |
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I really want to buy the safecoin but i don't know where to put them.
I found some guide online but it was very old. Can somebody who has free time help? Thank you
Go tho this website: https://www.bitaddress.orgDisconnect your computer from the internet for extra security. Move your mouse and create a Bitcoin address. Print out the information and/or store both the private and public key in a text file. Your public key is your Bitcoin address. Your private key is the one you should keep secure. You can send you MAID to the address (public) and store this way in a "cold wallet". Whenever you want to sell, go to https://www.omniwallet.org and import your private key. The MAID will show up and you can send them to an exchange to sell. |
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Ok look like safe network is heading forward. Very good progress on development also price spike.
Meanwhile eth still drama on the new chain and old chain....sign...
It's easy to avoid drama WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE A WORKING PRODUCT and are still deep in the hopey-dreamy vaporware phase. I doubt MAID will make it as far as ETH did (about two years) before suffering a catastrophic DAO-type debacle and ensuing ETC-type contentious hard fork. Your claims about vaporware and not a working product just don't hold. A few weeks ago you were asking for the MVP:  Well, it's out. So far for your vaporware claim they have released a working project. You also made the claim that this "shitcoin" would go back to 5K satoshi. Well, I hope you didn't short the thing. As your call is miles off from reality.  Techcrunch wrote a very nice article about Maidsafe and Alpha. There's also the news that Maidsafe will raise 2 million with Banktothefuture. Banktothefuture is a well respected platform that helps companies like Bitpay, Factom and Kraken to raise money selling a part of their company to new investors. So if you claim them to be fake, your view is far off from both Techcrunch, Bankothefuture and others. Maidsafe has released a product, they just hired 3 new devs and with the new funding round they will probably hire more new people. So it looks to me you once got your fingers burned on MAID (used leverage on Polo or something?) and now you are blaming others instead of yourself. So keep yelling and screaming about DAO's and other nonsense. But is doesn't really make sense  . |
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