[ANN] IPO of MaidSafe: Entering the Future of the Decentralized Internet

[zeeman]

when  expected the update?

You mean this one??

Link to topic: MaidSafe Dev Update 6th September 2016

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[chinchs]

MaidSafe rebuilding secure decentralised internet with BnkToTheFuture equity fundraising

MaidSafe's funding begins on 12th September and runs for 30 days. The target is £1.75m-£2m which will be received in sterling and bitcoin. Nick Lambert, chief operating officer, MaidSafe told IBTimes UK: "This is a raise for equity as opposed to a coin sale. It's most certainly not crowdfunding.

Ok, so how does this work ?
Do the investors get MAID for their investment ?? Or just shares ?

I'm a little confused here...

I thought we MAID hodlers are already the investors

Projects like Ethereum, Maidsafe and others crowdfunded in 2014 by selling coins which have use on their networks. These coins could be seen as a presale of a product. They don't hold any shareholder rights in
a company. This way of funding with Banktothefuture do give people shareholder rights. Via a SVP people become shareholder of the company. So a number of projects like Factom, BitPesa, Shapeshift and soon Maidsafe sell a part of their company to investors that become shareholders. No new coins are created or sold.

Here's a list of projects on BTTF for those interested.
 

Getting listed on BTTF have some prerequisites? what's the money for? Development only? Thx

[OmegaStarScream]

I have a question regarding the Safecoin , according to the Website , there will be only 4.3 billion coins in circulation at one time .
I would like to understand what "at one time" means exactly  ? Is it like Bitcoin where 21 million coins will ever be created ? or does it mean that If some coins get lost,burned or whatever , more will  be created ?

Another thing , If only people who provide resources will get paid , what would anyone buy the coin as there is no demand ? (unless people who use the network will have to pay coins as well)

[zeeman]

I have a question regarding the Safecoin , according to the Website , there will be only 4.3 billion coins in circulation at one time .
I would like to understand what "at one time" means exactly  ? Is it like Bitcoin where 21 million coins will ever be created ? or does it mean that If some coins get lost,burned or whatever , more will  be created ?

Another thing , If only people who provide resources will get paid , what would anyone buy the coin as there is no demand ? (unless people who use the network will have to pay coins as well)

Yes, it's like the limit with Bitcoin. No more can be created on the system, but it will take over a 100 years to fill it all up. In SAFE a Safecoin is "owned" or "not owned". When you upload data to the network you need to give up ownership of some Safecoin. So it goes from "owned" to "not owned". If you deliver a Chunk from your vault to the network you might earn Safecoin. In that case the close nodes look if a random address is "owned" or "not owned". If it's "not owned" you become the owner and you just Farmed some SAFEcoin. If you spend it to store some data you give up ownership again. So when 50% of all coins are owned the change of you farming a Safecoin goed down 50%. The Network changes the value per deliver chunk as well. Same for the price to PUT data to the network. So one day you might own 0.0001 Safecoin per MB. A month later when more people provide resources it could be lower than that.

If there's no demand?? Same for Gold, Dollar or Bitcoin. The price goes down I think. You can always use it to store data on the network. If the price becomes very low a lot of people will stop farming. The network notice and the reward for delivering data to the network goed up. the network will always balances itself.  

@chinchs

Getting listed on BTTF have some prerequisites? what's the money for? Development only? Thx

Yes, it's for development. They have around 15 people working for them. Most of them devs.

[MrBig]

Another thing , If only people who provide resources will get paid , what would anyone buy the coin as there is no demand ? (unless people who use the network will have to pay coins as well)

Spend Safecoins to store data on the network, paid Safecoin options for more features on apps, buy and sell Safenet domains or IDs, pay Safecoin for programs or services, etc.

[poornamelessme]

Another thing , If only people who provide resources will get paid , what would anyone buy the coin as there is no demand ? (unless people who use the network will have to pay coins as well)

Spend Safecoins to store data on the network, paid Safecoin options for more features on apps, buy and sell Safenet domains or IDs, pay Safecoin for programs or services, etc.

That's where I think they will run into a problem. Will the average person be willing to buy a coin so they can store data or obtain other services, when they can either get that for free or use existing services? I don't think the average person would care about the decentralized aspect so much.

Now if companies somehow became interested in the network, that could work ... just not so sure that will happen.

[StratisKing]

Another thing , If only people who provide resources will get paid , what would anyone buy the coin as there is no demand ? (unless people who use the network will have to pay coins as well)

Spend Safecoins to store data on the network, paid Safecoin options for more features on apps, buy and sell Safenet domains or IDs, pay Safecoin for programs or services, etc.

Safecoin will be very expensive after the main net is live. Like you said, ppl will use this service for decentralized internet, they need to biy safecoin.

[zeeman]

Another thing , If only people who provide resources will get paid , what would anyone buy the coin as there is no demand ? (unless people who use the network will have to pay coins as well)

Spend Safecoins to store data on the network, paid Safecoin options for more features on apps, buy and sell Safenet domains or IDs, pay Safecoin for programs or services, etc.

Safecoin will be very expensive after the main net is live. Like you said, ppl will use this service for decentralized internet, they need to biy safecoin.

The network adapts to the price of Safecoin. So if the price is high, a lot of people will try to "farm" coins to sell them. The network detects that and the reward for every delivered chunk (Farming Reward) goes down. Same the other way around: if a lot of people try to farm coins, there are lot of resources available. If there isn't that much money to make people will stop farming.

You don't have to spend a dollar to use the network. Just start a Vault on your computer and let it run for some time. After you made some safecoin that way you could store data, tip someone, register a domain, and more. Do you have a nice blog? Add a tip-button and see the Safecoin come in.

Browsing the network will always be free, no need to have an account.

[poornamelessme]

You don't have to spend a dollar to use the network. Just start a Vault on your computer and let it run for some time. After you made some safecoin that way you could store data, tip someone, register a domain, and more. Do you have a nice blog? Add a tip-button and see the Safecoin come in.

Browsing the network will always be free, no need to have an account.

I brought up the show Silicon Valley in relation to this project earlier, and I wonder if it might not turn out similar. Basically nobody might care about being 'secure', or decentralized websites, or storing their data, but the project may find a niche somewhere else.

Distributing video/software (illegally) over a decentralized network... maybe?

[zeeman]

You don't have to spend a dollar to use the network. Just start a Vault on your computer and let it run for some time. After you made some safecoin that way you could store data, tip someone, register a domain, and more. Do you have a nice blog? Add a tip-button and see the Safecoin come in.

Browsing the network will always be free, no need to have an account.

I brought up the show Silicon Valley in relation to this project earlier, and I wonder if it might not turn out similar. Basically nobody might care about being 'secure', or decentralized websites, or storing their data, but the project may find a niche somewhere else.

Distributing video/software (illegally) over a decentralized network... maybe?

Yes, that's 1 example. Take Germany, if they catch you downloading some torrents they offer you a 800 euro "settlement" so you wont be brought to court. People are scared to use P2P in that country. And a lot of people hate the big power of Facebook, Google, and the others. They want their have their own "decentralized Youtube" and social media. So if SAFE works the way it's intended people use Apps on their phones without even noticing it's a P2P technology.  

[cheapcoin]

zeeman are you in dev team or you just a maidsafe lover? actually ive seen u are around here all the time. a maid true lover.

[zeeman]

zeeman are you in dev team or you just a maidsafe lover? actually ive seen u are around here all the time. a maid true lover.

No not dev. I hang out on the forum and really like the idea of SAFE so follow them closely. Wish I could program myself and help them out. But it's quite
some technical stuff. Already takes me time to understand a XOR-network as I wasn't familiar with Kademlia or something. 

[poornamelessme]

Yes, that's 1 example. Take Germany, if they catch you downloading some torrents they offer you a 800 euro "settlement" so you wont be brought to court. People are scared to use P2P in that country. And a lot of people hate the big power of Facebook, Google, and the others. They want their have their own "decentralized Youtube" and social media. So if SAFE works the way it's intended people use Apps on their phones without even noticing it's a P2P technology.  

Now will people need to buy safecoins to download data from the network? Or just to store data?

If free to download, people may use it in lieu of downloading torrents. The issue then is if anyone would
be willing to pay (in safecoins) to just give away files... what is their incentive?

[zeeman]

Yes, that's 1 example. Take Germany, if they catch you downloading some torrents they offer you a 800 euro "settlement" so you wont be brought to court. People are scared to use P2P in that country. And a lot of people hate the big power of Facebook, Google, and the others. They want their have their own "decentralized Youtube" and social media. So if SAFE works the way it's intended people use Apps on their phones without even noticing it's a P2P technology.  

Now will people need to buy safecoins to download data from the network? Or just to store data?

If free to download, people may use it in lieu of downloading torrents. The issue then is if anyone would
be willing to pay (in safecoins) to just give away files... what is their incentive?

Downloading from the network will always be free. You only need to pay when you want an account, register a domain or PUT (upload) data to the network. On BitTorrent nobody get's paid for anything. On SAFE everybody who delivers chunks to the network get's paid. That's the trick, when you deliver chunks out of your Vault to the network, like the real chunks your address in XOR is close to, you Farm some safecoin. These coins are created for you when you Farm. If someone uploads data to the network, they have to pay. The coins are then "un-owned" again so free for future farmers to Farm them again. So coins are recycled when someone uploads to the network. So this is it:

• Run a Vault (be a "seeder" on the network) and the network pays you. That's a great incentive
• Run the Client to upload data to the network and you pay the network
• Run the Client to upload "dynamic data" and you pay the network a bit more
• Run the Client and register a domain name and you pay the network

due to an incentive for running a Vault, a lot of people will. It's like getting Bitcoins for being a seeder on BitTorrent. And each mb. has at least 3 to 5 seeders. So for a 2000 mb. file we have like 10.000 nodes storing and delivering chunks in the hope to make some money.

So you never pay someone directly for storing data. The network does. And as a user you pay the network (give up the coins so someone else can farm them later on). But as a user you can use Safecoin for whatever you like. Tip someone, pay someone etc. Safecoin transactions are expected to take less than a second. Including all the confirmations.  

[tempestb]

But if downloading is free, aren't you just inviting 100% utilization of the available bandwidth?

For instance, if I'm hosting partial data, and Netflix decides to house all their motion pictures for streaming on the service.  That would mean those hosting the data would be delivering that data constantly, and it sounds like potentially multiple times if the file is very popular.  In exchange for a few dollars a month?  The economics of that won't work for most people.  Especially if their Internet is being bogged down by all the requests for data on their services. 

Granted, Netflix isn't realistic, but this is just an example.  The point being that there is no penalty for downloading, so everyone can expect their bandwidth to be 100% eaten once they've acquired the files.  Plus, what's the incentive to hold old files?  If I get paid when new stuff is created, and paid when stuff is uploaded.  Why would I then hold old data?  Wouldn't I be better off clearing that data away to make room for more new data?  Storing and distributing it doesn't appear to benefit me at all.

[zeeman]

But if downloading is free, aren't you just inviting 100% utilization of the available bandwidth?

For instance, if I'm hosting partial data, and Netflix decides to house all their motion pictures for streaming on the service.  That would mean those hosting the data would be delivering that data constantly, and it sounds like potentially multiple times if the file is very popular.  In exchange for a few dollars a month?  The economics of that won't work for most people.  Especially if their Internet is being bogged down by all the requests for data on their services.  

Granted, Netflix isn't realistic, but this is just an example.  The point being that there is no penalty for downloading, so everyone can expect their bandwidth to be 100% eaten once they've acquired the files.  Plus, what's the incentive to hold old files?  If I get paid when new stuff is created, and paid when stuff is uploaded.  Why would I then hold old data?  Wouldn't I be better off clearing that data away to make room for more new data?  Storing and distributing it doesn't appear to benefit me at all.

Very good questions that came up in several topics >> https://safenetforum.org/t/free-gets-arent-going-to-fly/5836

The network uses "caching". So you run a Vault and get a request from a Vault you are connected with for chunk "ABC". You ask another Vault for that same chunk as you don't have it. In XOR it will take between 3 to 7 steps until the right Vault with chunk "ABC" is found. So that Vault sends the chunk to the Vault that requested the chunk. So it might take 3 to 7 steps before it ends up at the Vault who requested it. What just happened?? 1 Vault (who stored chunk "ABC") got paid some Safecoin. The other 3 to 7 nodes now have the chunk in cache. So if it's requested by others they can deliver in an instant. So the more popular a file becomes on SAFE the faster it get's downloaded. And if you take a 1000 mb. movie for example. It's spread over at least 3000 nodes. So the load for this movie is balanced by design. So the Vaults always help each other with asking and delivering chunks. 1 moment a Vault in the US farmed some Safecoin, next time it's you. If you only made 3 dollar after a month of running would you still want to be run a Vault?? Nope, you would shut it down. And as more people do this, the Farming Reward goes up. So now you can make 5 or 6 dollar a month. Not enough? Well, don't start your Vault! Wait for good prices. And look at Netflix, they can deliver a lot of GB's for like 8 dollar a month. So I expect a lot of small companies (like design studio's with fast fiber) to run Vaults 24H a day as they can make money on it. BitTorrent isn't making anyone money but still people upload and seed stuff like maniacs. I guess with some coins to be made they even seed more.      

[zeeman]

The funding went live yesterday. Here's the link for those interested. These are real shares in Maidsafe the company. Not coins.

MaidSafe funding with Banktothefuture

Enjoy!@!

[zeeman]

MaidSafe Dev Update 13th September 2016

[tiredday]

The funding went live yesterday. Here's the link for those interested. These are real shares in Maidsafe the company. Not coins.

MaidSafe funding with Banktothefuture

Enjoy!@!

What? Crowdfunding to buy their shares? I prefer coins, cause we can't buy and sell their shares easily, and we can only buy with fiat?? No btc payment?

[OmegaStarScream]

What? Crowdfunding to buy their shares? I prefer coins, cause we can't buy and sell their shares easily, and we can only buy with fiat?? No btc payment?

Bank to the future allows Bitcoin as a payment method : https://bnktothefuture.com/pitches/maidsafe-net