Yo! Wow.... You're challenging me  Ok. I like challenges. 1)Pictures of your mining gear setup with something like a card or piece of paper with your BTCTalk username and today's date on it & 2) Live pool info on where you're mining. For example, if you're on a public pool like Eligius, providing the wallet address so we can see live stats of your mining operation For now the total amount of GH/s ON SALE/SOLD on the platform is 3TH/s. I understand that it is sufficient for you as a proof? Or Shall I double it? Can I set-up entirely new account for it?
These photos you're asking will not be involving our Chinese operations unless I will be able to provide you with a photo of a nice Asian chick with our logo. But not topless, oh no! Seriously it does depend on me, I will ask our Chinese counterparts for a favour. I will post some pics tomorrow however.
3) You say you back up your GH/s in silver. Well... show me the money. Show me this stockpile of silver you have. Picture of silver with your username and today's date. https://www.facebook.com/kryptologika?ref_type=bookmark
Can we get some likes please??
The photo is a couple of weeks old. I will provide you with another one after 18/08 as I am on my holidays now far far away. Most of the silver is in Merrion Vaults. I do not think I can take photos inside there but I will try to make an extra mile for the better marketing
4) Clear explanation of your fee structure, especially the rates. You list in PLN - does this fee change as the value of PLN changes? Also, you list a formula for calculating fees that includes "average price per block". What does that mean? The fees structure is in PLN, this is because our mining operation has been based in Poland. It is a kind of a relic from the past times. We have calculated it in PLN to unify the costs. This is just a technical however the maintenance cots are in zloty, the exchange variations have minimal or no impact. I think you can take $0.11 per GH/s per month. And I can assure you we see some more room to reduce them on the horizon. It all depends on the volume of the sale, better hosting options etc. I am sure that $0.11 can be taken for guaranteed on today's date. It looks like we will have to replace the fees in dollars across the board...
Average price per block means average PLN/BTC exchange rate during the process of solving the block. Say a block was solved 12.00 - 12.05. During that time BTC/PLN price has an average which is needed to charge fees. We tried to make it as transparent as possible but of course it is a bit complex, thank you for asking.
5) You round down for block rewards but up for fees... that's kind of shady and not customer-friendly This is only up/down to 1 satoshi. What is shady about it? Yea I agree perhaps it is not user friendly.... but it has to stay this way. I am not going to elaborate on this for obvious reasons. Once 1 BTC is worth 100,000 it may matter, now it does not.
6) Show us a model in which one of your customers can actually make a return and profit on their investment. You clearly state that YOU'RE in this for profit - which, I applaud by the way as I believe you're pretty much the only cloud mining provider out there that has come out and said you actually want to make money, too. This is a kind of an academic discussion is mining a profitable business? Is it worth investing? I cannot give any kind of advice to anyone. All I can tell is that in some moments in time/difficulty continuity (another dimension than time space) it might be profitable to mine BTC, it might be profitable to get rid of the hashes at some stage. We are trying to set up an alternative to all cloud hashing offers we came across. It is just someone's personal decision whether to invest or not.
I wait for further instructions what hashrate shall I show.Sorry I haven't gotten back to this thread in a few days. Firstly, thank you for responding. Let me address your comments below: 1 and 2) Telling me you have 3TH/s is not the same as showing actual proof that you have the hardware to back it up. While topless photos of beautiful women are always a nice distraction, and topless women posing in front of mining hardware would be an excellent marketing strategy, neither provides actual proof of the existence of your hardware. For example, I mine on p2pool and run my own node. Currently because I'm traveling for work, my hardware is pointed to http://www.coincadence.com. You can clearly see my stats here: http://minefast.coincadence.com/miner.php?id=1DeVLDoGvkbbB5n3dPvbpDbwiKGjYckCy9. I can post photos of my 8 Antminer S3s as well. This is the kind of evidence we'd like to see. 3) You've got some silver. Thanks for providing the link to the Facebook profile showing it. 4) It sounds like your fees are variable depending on market rates (how the Zloty is doing, etc). Would it make more sense to charge fees in BTC rather than fiat (PLN, USD, EUR, etc)? Your quote of $0.11 per GH/s per month translates into $110 per TH/s per month, which is just about $0.15 per kWh electricity costs assuming your hardware is 1W/GH/s. Obviously this goes back to point 1 - without knowing what kind of hardware you're running it's tough to determine if that's a fair fee structure. 5)If it's only a satoshi here and there, then make the rounding policy consistent. Either always round up, or always round down. Stating that you're rounding up if it's in your favor, but rounding down if it's in the customer's favor is what is referred to here in the US as "Nickel and Diming". It's a relatively meaningless amount, but you're trying to squeeze every last little bit from the customer. 6) I wasn't speculating on whether or not cloud mining in general is profitable. I was asking you to show an example of how YOUR service might provide a positive ROI for the customer. Thanks for taking the time to answer. |
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47 days?! For a share? On a 9GH node?
One of my nodes is less than 2GH - expected time to share is 5.5 hours...........
For Bitcoin? The math doesn't work out that way. Expected time to share is the formula I posted. If you've got a Bitcoin p2pool node with only 2GH/s showing expected share time of 5.5 hours, something's wrong. 2GH/s expected time to share: 8076919.15 * 2^32 / 2000000000 / 86400 = 200.753 days
You should see a share every 200.753 days, not 5.5 hours. I've got near 4TH/s mining on p2pool, and my expected time to share is about 2.5 hours. No way should your 2GH/s be anywhere near that. EDIT: Of course, you could be mixing up your "G" and your "T"  . He's got 9 Gigahash per second. I presume you meant you have 2 Terrahash per second, in which case your expected time to share is 4.82 hours. |
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thank jonny for speedy reply.
will give p2pool another try, was mining at it for around 6 days, but on and off, and did not receive anything from it. kinda disappointed.
One thing to remember when mining on p2pool is that you're going to see a lot of variance depending on how much hashing you have. For example, if you've got 1TH/s right now, you can expect to find a share every 9.8 hours. This means you should expect to have about 7 shares on the chain for payout. The lower the hashing speed, the fewer shares you have on the chain, and the more variance you'll experience. If you're going to mine on p2pool, it can't be an on/off thing. You need to be on it 24/7. |
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I believe there is something wrong with that node - according to the info bar on the left of the main page, the expected time to find a share is 49.4 days!!If this is correct for a node that has 9GH/s, it's a seriously sick node - drop it immediately. Nothing's wrong... the expected time to share for 9.01GH/s right now is: Difficulty * 2^32 / hash rate / 86400
8538174.25 * 2^32 / 9010000000 / 86400 = 47.107 days
47.107 days. |
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He has 1.5GH/s, take a look at the graph again. i've look at the graph in this moment, but he has the same reward... Patience is required with p2pool - I am using less hashrate than you on a couple of different nodes, sometimes I can go without a share for 12 hours or more - then 2 or 3 shares will appear within 5 minutes of each other. Hash rate & diff is going up on every pool - this is the way of things. Just sit tight - it'll come  Yes but patience apart, I have mined for about 2 weeks and in the last 4-5 days my reward decrease and go to 0. On http://p2pool.info/ the active user speed is over 1900th/s He has the same payout because he hasn't found another share, and his share is still on the chain. If he doesn't find another share before that one falls off the chain, his payout will go to zero. With the increasing difficulty, you're going to find fewer shares. The theory is that the pool will find more blocks, meaning the fewer shares you find will be paid more often. Can confirm that using --queue 0 on my S3's results in less DOA also (also running a local node) That's interesting data. I'm actually using the default values of 4096 on my local node and get 1-2% DOA. I never really noticed much difference when I set the queue values to 0 or 1 or left it alone at stock. I believe that using --queue 0 puts more load on the asic cpu, but I'm not sure tbh - it might be the other way round - maybe ck can chime in here. Using a queue setting of zero has generally been regarded as the way to go with p2pool since the early days, although obviously the tech has changed since mining with 5 series GPU's  Works good for me though..... If it works for you, then have at it. Personally, I saw no difference with the different queue settings. To be honest, I have no idea why Bitmain sets the queue value so high, and to understand it would require having their driver code. Bitmain uses an older version of cgminer that they have customized, so expectations of queue settings based upon the latest version of the software may not apply to Bitmain's fork. |
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Patience is required with p2pool - I am using less hashrate than you on a couple of different nodes, sometimes I can go without a share for 12 hours or more - then 2 or 3 shares will appear within 5 minutes of each other. Hash rate & diff is going up on every pool - this is the way of things. Just sit tight - it'll come Difficulty going up... boy is that the truth. I'm looking at 9.7M right now... any bets on when it crosses 10M?
How about the fact that the cgminer dev said should use at least 1 not zero?
M
Yeah, ck said he recommended a setting of 1 - that's why I used it to start with, but as you can see, setting it to 0 works better for my setup Can confirm that using --queue 0 on my S3's results in less DOA also (also running a local node) That's interesting data. I'm actually using the default values of 4096 on my local node and get 1-2% DOA. I never really noticed much difference when I set the queue values to 0 or 1 or left it alone at stock. |
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hi jonny, may i know how to check if i have found a share? and i saw someone mine with just 1.5 gh/s but his expected return is 0.003 btc, which is very high right?
Hi yan7181. It depends on the node. Some nodes have very well-developed front ends that will give you all kinds of details about your own shares. For example, windpath's node at www.coincadence.com has a bunch of information. If you're on a node that is using the default front end (for example, you are mining on your own node with no customizations), you can see the node's shares and just look for ones with your miner's payout address. Seeing someone with only 1.5GH/s with an expected payout of 0.003 BTC just means that miner got lucky and found a share. It might have taken him weeks, or it could have taken minutes. It's just the way the mining game works. Also, that miner could have had more hashing power previously, but when you saw it only happened to have 1.5GH/s. |
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Hello,
This is a dumb question for sure, but I can't find it anywhere.
How do I calculate the "dollar per GH/s" for a system?
I assumed I just divide the cost of the system by the hash rate but that doesn't seem right.
Thank you for your time.
No, you cant calculate, you can just estimate, cause its hard to predict the difficulty rise every 10 days and the bitcoin price over the next 6 months. How do either of the two things you mentioned have any effect whatsoever on dollar to GH/s ratio? First, difficulty changes every 2016 blocks, not 10 days. Also, it does not always go up, it can go down (although the last time it did was January of 2013). Bitcoin price over the next 6 months has no bearing on how much the hardware cost. Difficulty changes have no bearing on how much the hardware cost. Your hardware cost X dollars and gets Y hash rate. Therefore, it gets X/Y dollar to GH/s. Example: You pay $1000 for 600GH/s, it's $1.67 per GH/s. |
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Disaster Recovery
10 S3s, losing a unit only costs 10% of your overall hashing speed
1 SP30, losing a unit costs 100% of your overall hashing speed
Advantage: S3
This is wrong. SP30 is built using a modular design. The whole unit can't fail so that you loose 100% hashrate. Each chip is independently and also each PSU is independently. So you can fail either 1 or more chips or 1 or 2 PSUs (highly unlikely). Most frequent fails are in a chip or series of chips (SP10). One SP30 chip is around 5% of the hashrate so the advantage would be SP30 here. I agree that the SP30 is modular and can certainly have single chips fail. So can the S3. I'm talking about failure. Disaster recovery. You lose that SP30, you're out 4.5TH/s. You lose the S3, you're out 450GH/s. It doesn't really have to be very dramatic. Rip the network cable out of the unit. Controller board fails. It can happen, and when it does, losing that SP30 costs you everything. Hence I gave the advantage to the S3. |
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The problem with cloud mining is that it requires a large capital investment up front by the provider if it is to be legit. The service provider must purchase the hardware, set it up, maintain it, etc. Assuming I want to setup a 1PH/s farm, I'm pretty sure I've seen the $1,000,000 number floated as necessary capital to do so. Even if that number is only $800,000 it's still a sizable chunk of cash.
Now I've got to recoup my investment. As we all know, the value of the hardware depreciates very quickly. Assuming meager 10% difficulty jumps, you're looking at losing 10% of your revenue stream every 2016 blocks. This hardware costs money to run - power, cooling, location, maintenance - which further reduces my revenue. Basically, your cloud mining provider faces all the same things every other miner does.
Since I'm in business to make a profit, I must therefore charge consumers accordingly. This is where I need to try and forecast the future and make decisions based on how much risk I'm willing to accept. Here is where you, as the cloud mining consumer, are also making your decisions. It's a gamble. Do you think you can forecast better than I can? That's the game we're playing. If you win, you make a profit on your cloud mining contract. If I win, I make the money on that contract. The difference is that I'm the one in control. I'm setting prices. I've got the edge because I can adjust things according to how the market is doing. You, on the other hand, are locked into the decision you made.
Up to this point, I'm only speaking of legitimate providers. Companies who really do own hardware and are actually mining Bitcoin with it. As a consumer, I've already got virtually everything going against me with these guys. Now you introduce the scammers. The easiest scam is the Ponzi. Maybe I invest a bit of capital up front to purchase some Bitcoin and setup a website. I then sell my "cloud mining" service to you. You pay me Bitcoin, which I then turn around and pay back over time. I tell you to refer your friends and you'll get a cut of the profits. You're interested because it means more coin in your pocket. As long as I can continue to get people to join the game, I can keep the game going. Those of us on the top make a killing. I've already recouped my initial investment (if I even made one to begin with). Eventually, no more people will join and things start to go bad. All I have to do is close up shop. I can claim I was hacked, robbed, beaten, whatever. It doesn't matter. I'm out with a ton of coin and you're stuck with nothing.
In both cases the cards are not stacked in the consumer's favor. Legitimate cloud mining providers are in it to make a profit for themselves - not the consumer. Scammers - well, we know they're only in it for themselves. Do yourself a favor and avoid cloud mining altogether.
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4 and all of them have splitters.so i'll just use 1 cabe with both spliters, right ?
thanks !
Look at this picture: snipped If you are going to use only 1 cable per S3, then you must plug it in according to how the green ovals show. Personally, I would use 2 cables per S3, with each cable plugging into two connectors, either oriented like the green ovals, or the red rectangles. That way each S3 has all 4 plugs filled. You've got the cables for it. I'm quoting the picture so it makes sense: If you're going to try to load balance (not that it is really necessary on a RM1000), then plug once chain into the green oval on the right (that will power 2 boards). Plug the second chain into the green oval on the left. Each chain has 2 6+2 connectors if I'm not mistaken, but you only need the 6 pin part for the S3. Yes, you can plug one split cable per green oval or you can plug in using the red rectangles if you use two cables from the PSU (2 cables turn into 4 PCI-e connections into the S3). Yes, the S3 uses the 6 pin (the +2 is not used). If you're only using 1 cable per S3 (1 cable splits into 2 PCI-e connectors), then you MUST plug it in as the green ovals show - either the one on the right, or the one on the left. If you try to plug only 1 cable into the red rectangles, it won't work - only a single board would be powered. |
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If anyone sees this please read this and share your opinion:
I'm toying around with the idea of having a set group of people who I've personally deemed are high quality posters to continue to get paid per post count and branching off the campaign to allow anyone to join on and off instantly and use a PD3 referral link which will automatically credit their account (I'd likely boost the referral rate to something like 20%+ for those not being paid per post)
I'm confident doing this would greatly cut down on forum spam, while the very high quality posters who I select would have the option to continue the campaign as it exists privately or swap to a referral based payment.
This isn't at all decided, so feel free to weigh in.
I think it would be an interesting metric to track and see exactly how much traffic you're getting from signature link clicks vs people going directly to PD. I'm a bit confused by your idea, though. Maybe it's because I've been up working too long . So, you would have a group of handpicked posters that continue to get paid per post, and everyone else would use a referral link in their signature? If I'm reading that correctly, the PD signature campaign continues to exist as it does now for a selected group, while anyone else can put a PD referral link in their sig, and earn from their referrals? I realize going through the mountain of posts is probably more than a full time job. I mean honestly, how can you go through and proof 400 posts per user to ensure they aren't filled with one liners and random spam? You and Micro and whoever else you've got helping you out with this are saints. Obviously for you it would be far easier just to have a limited set of trusted users who you know are quality posters. That way, you can just get the post count and send the BTC, without going through the tedium of looking at post after post of user after user to ensure they don't have 300 posts of worthless garbage. From my perspective, I know I look at people's signatures to see what they're promoting. I also know that I pay far more attention to those signatures from people who post well thought out discussions than from people posting thinly veiled attempts to pad their own pockets. To me quality advertising will win out any day over the shotgun effect of spraying as much as you can on the wall to see what sticks. |
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Using the dual cable should work just fine. But assuming that psu is 1000w it may be stretching it a bit, thus the warm cables. If you have a 1300w psu the cables will barely be warm.
It's not going to be stretching it at all. The RM1000 delivers 1000W and 83.3A of sustained power through the 12V rail. The S3 is 340W running stock, 366W at 478 and 390 at 504. You are well within the PSU specs running two over clocked S3s on it. |
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4 and all of them have splitters.so i'll just use 1 cabe with both spliters, right ?
thanks !
Look at this picture:  If you are going to use only 1 cable per S3, then you must plug it in according to how the green ovals show. Personally, I would use 2 cables per S3, with each cable plugging into two connectors, either oriented like the green ovals, or the red rectangles. That way each S3 has all 4 plugs filled. You've got the cables for it. |
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Doesn't the RM1000 have 8 PCI-e connectors? Also, how much are you planning to over clock? You can safely do 237.5 (giving you 478GH/s) on two cables per unit. If you're going to 250 (504GH/s) and beyond, then 4 connectors per miner is recommended.
yes it has 8 PCI-e.and at the other end the cable is 6+2, but the end is split in 2x 6+2 like in the picture i posted above.can I use both of that to power 1 board? i could try 237.5 first, yes Yes. How many actual cables are there? 6 cables, 2 of them have splitters, or 4 and all 4 of them have splitters? If it's the first, use 2 singles and 1 double per S3. If it's the second, you're using 2 doubles per S3. |
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I already sold off my S1s and upgraded with S3s directly, so I won't be purchasing the upgrade kits. I'm glad I did, 9/20 is a long ways off. One thing I'd like to add here is that the upgrade kit really doesn't make sense. Here's why: Your S1 is already getting you 180GH/s (or 200GH/s if you've over clocked it). The upgrade kit effectively turns your S1 into an S3. You gain 273GH/s - 304GH/s (base clocks to both over clocked). So, is ~275GH/s worth 0.46 BTC (by the way, the MOQ on the upgrade kits is 2, so you're looking at 0.92 BTC). It is much more efficient per watt too....... That goes without saying... the S1 is 2W per GH/s, the S3 (and the upgraded S1) are 0.78W per GH/s. I think my main point was that with a ship date of 9/20, neither the S1 or the S3 make a lot of sense. I got in with the early batches (1, 4, 5), so by the time the S3+ comes out, my S3s will have been mining for a couple months. |
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Doesn't the RM1000 have 8 PCI-e connectors? Also, how much are you planning to over clock? You can safely do 237.5 (giving you 478GH/s) on two cables per unit. If you're going to 250 (504GH/s) and beyond, then 4 connectors per miner is recommended.
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Up Front Costs
10 S3 at 4.5TH/s is 3550 watts. 5.8BTC + PSUs.
1 SP30 at 4.5TH/s is 3000 watts. $3895 + $300 shipping
Advantage: S3
Hosting
10 S3s, plus PSUs, lots of cabling, non-standard design
1 SP30, 1 network cable, 1 power cord, standard rack design
Advantage: SP30
Maintenance
10 S3s, individually configured, or creation of generic deployment scripts, individually managed firmware updates, or scripted, have to hunt on Bitmain's website to see if new versions are available
1 SP30, individually configured, individually managed firmware updates with clearly visible new version notifications
Advantage: SP30
Support
10 S3s, support handled through web-based tickets or email. Long turnaround times and RMA through China.
1 SP30, direct support from Spondoolies-Tech staff including using TeamViewer to diagnose and troubleshoot problems directly on your machine.
Advantage: SP30
Time to Market
10 S3s shipped on or before 9/20
1 SP30 shipped end of September
Advantage: S3 (depending on how much before 9/20 they ship and what "End of September" means for SP30)
Disaster Recovery
10 S3s, losing a unit only costs 10% of your overall hashing speed
1 SP30, losing a unit costs 100% of your overall hashing speed
Advantage: S3
Conclusion
While the SP30 wins out in ease of deployment, support and maintenance, it loses on cost and potentially on time to market. In favor of the S3 is precisely their ability to be spread around. Use them as space heaters in the cold months, add a few more here and there to compensate for difficulty increases. They can be reliably run at rated hashing speeds on 110V power. The SP30 loses speed on 110V power due to PSU and firmware limitations. You can test your luck and try to override those settings, but you'll void your warranty.
For data center deployment, the SP30 is the flat out winner. The standard rack design works very well with high-density cabinets. There's only a single machine with a power cable and a network cable. The data center only needs to worry about managing a single IP address and providing remote access to the web-based configuration interface and direct SSH access can be controlled easily.
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you can also merge-mine other coins: IXC, DVC
Not on Eligius. If you run your own p2pool node, you can merge-mine BTC, NMC, IXC, I0C, FSC, HUC, DVC. On Eligius, it's NMC and BTC. Hey all,
I have recently set up my 2 antminers and they are both hashing away on eligius...
I noticed the other day that there is an option for adding a nmc address for merged mining.
How would I go about getting a nmc address?
My btc wallet was generated through the Armory installed on my pc.
I don't think armory has any support for nmc.
I read somewhere that you need to sign a msg with your btc wallet in order for eligius to accept your nmc addr.
Can I do that? And if so how?
Thank you in advance for your replies...
You need to download and install the NMC wallet locally. To sign a message with Armory, go to Tools -> Message Signing. Enter your message (copy it from the line on Eligius) and then put the resulting signature back in the box provided in the Eligius page. |
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You will be hard pressed to find a more reputable and responsive pool operator then Eleuthria at BTC Guild. I have NEVER heard of BTC Guild "stealing" from miners. Whoever told you that either knows something I don't or is a bald faced liar!
Haven't figured out how to insert quotes yet.
Answer to above:
I googled "btcguild bad luck" today after no blocks were found for about 7 hours. Accusations showed up. Noticed ghash.io considered evil by many as well. Not sure what to think about this.
GHash has done a number of dubious things, and continues to do so. That is why so many people hammer them. The only thing I know of from BTCGuild was they were victims of a block withholding attack, which Eleuthria discovered and acted upon. By the way, just hit the "quote" button to insert quotes. Or, if you hit the "Reply" button, look down and you'll see each post has an "Insert Quote" link. |
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