What about the user database? Was it compromised? I'd hate to see bitcoins sent to the wrong address.
I have a database snapshot taken before bad guys overtook the database. So there's no reason to think payout addresses have been modified. Any change of wallet on pool profile requires email confirmation by account owner so I think we're on safe side here. Unfortunately the user database can be considered as compromised, so the attacker knows user's emails :-(. Should we consider our passwords compromised? |
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So none of our earned bitcoins will be lost?
Ack. It is an old hack that might be worth checking in your mail options. You might want to consider checking your inbox for any Forwarders. There is a way in most email systems for people to forward mail received in an account to another destination. The original mail still remains at the account but duplicates are normally forwarded to a second destination. The forwarding process is usually not obvious until you inspect your settings carefully. This kind of hack means that you only need to compromise the account once, as once the forwarding is set, the account continues to transparently duplicate and forward the new mail to a second destination. Does not matter if you regain control of the account. It also does not require a person to check the content of the inbox as they get a copy at their forwarded address (so the original inbox remains untouched). You should also contact the folks at your various providers to let them know that you want a stricter security check on each of your accounts. It will require more checks before you can do anything on the phone but it will preempt (or make very difficult) any forms of social engineering to gain access to your account. |
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I purchased it a couple of weeks ago on a saturday, the download was weird. It wouldnt work. I pm cyro he sent me a file a downloaded it would not accept the key. I contacted paypal and got my money back. I never deleted the file.
Then that monday my btc-e and vircurex account were hacked all my coins gone.
I'm not saying it was this software it could of also been a btc-e troll box link.
That was my experience.
Did you enable the API functions for withdrawls? |
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Luckily there are a ton of other less mature currencies which will allow newcomers to enter the markets. I doubt mining will end. It will just shift from one Coin to another. (IMO)
Aka Litecoin? ASICs will not be happening for Litecoin for a LONG time. It already takes up 1.5 - 2 GB of memory for just around 500-600 khash. I don't think LiteCoin will be that important in the long term. If anything it [LiteCoin] will be a cheap way of converting and moving funds from one place to another. Check my original post as I elucidated a bit more on what I think will happen next. I think the future will be what BitInstant is now. Except it will be on an individual level and minus the high fee rates for exchanging or converting transactions. I think the long term future (or should I say hope) will be someone writing an easy to use interface which will look at regional registrations. Some individuals within those registrations will have ties to the "old fashioned" bank accounts. Others will have ties to different currencies, yet others to different forms of sending money (Western union, A specific Credit Union, Interkassa etc), yet others will have the capability to convert it into physical cash at some distant location etc. I hope the future takes the control of money from regulated institutions and places it unto individuals with connections and a variety of methods of honoring that transaction. If you want your BitCoins (if it exists by then) denominated in 3 different currencies and in addition 2 types of money orders and 1 physical cash transaction to someone in another country, it can be done via this yet to be built interface. I hope this is where it is going. The current system is incredibly vulnerable and subject to being seized. The TeraHash issue is going to be pretty insignificant compared to a sudden future closure of MtGox by one or more governments. |
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Luckily there are a ton of other less mature currencies which will allow newcomers to enter the markets. I doubt mining will end. It will just shift from one Coin to another. (IMO)
My [imaginary] crystal ball tells me that the biggest challenge to the Future of Coin Mining will be from governments. BitCoin needs to detach itself from the banking system. MtGox, BTC-e, BitFloor etc, will need to find alternatives to converting currency while side stepping the current fiat infrastructure.
Someone will eventually have to create a feedback system that is reliable and tied to a persons real or virtual permanent identity. A system that can keep tabs on decentralized transactions and multi-currency conversions without the direct aide of banks.
I think there are some steps in that direction, but they seem spotty at the moment. I don't think ASICs will be the end of anything anymore. It will simply push Virtual Currencies to be alot more distributed and flexible.
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So for the average (non-ASIC owner) miner, what does this mean?
It means GPU miners will be pushed out of BitCoin mining....Unless the extreme difficulty leads to each BitCoin being worth alot more (1,000 USD per BitCoin by summer). If that happens, then expect the "new normal" to be people buying BitCoins in fractions up 8 decimal places. Personally I think people should focus on storing and increasing their current BitCoin Stockpiles. If you do, it may very well keep you padded with enough cash to transition to the next generation of ASIC's. Maybe... |
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Oh, this gets interesting. I didn't expect this amount of sales in such a short timewindow.
Now it would be a golden time for BFL to start shipping if they don't want cancelled orders flooding in like crazy.
According to BFL, they don't have a refund issue.  I know, I laughed too when I heard him say that. |
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You do realize that real businesses that do a large amount of transactions with Paypal have account reps assigned to them specifically... sort of like a concierge service, right? You mean the account manager or a senior manager? You seem to think you are strangely unique in that regard. Crazy... If hundreds of members here have thousands of dollars to spend...I am pretty sure if they have ever been in business (like many have) they know that. I had dozens to handle different accounts in the past. So what of it? Oh, no, that's right.. you live in a shack in San Antonio and have a failed Computer Repair business and you buy women's handbags on the side... I guess you wouldn't know anything about doing business on a scale beyond a few dollars here and there, would you?
Do you honestly think Paypal is unaware that our business involves hardware that is related to Bitcoin? Seriously?
It could be worse, I could be you.  Edit: By the way, in all seriousness. You should be applauded for getting this far. Your dedication to the miner and ability to take multiple hits for Team BFL is really admirable. You definitely know how to walk through a marsh full of shit and still walk to the other end. No one should ever say that you didn't have a sense of dedication to see things through to the end. I'll give you credit when it is due. (I am also thankful that the new Jalapeno didn't burn the reviewers hands upon touching it. It seems like it lost it's coffee warming abilities.) |
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Pro Tip:
Don't ever mention that you offer to give your customers refunds via BitCoin. Especially if they made a USD purchase through PayPal services. Instant closure of your account is an almost 99% certainty to occur.
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You just go on advocating fraud there, Yajaira. You are a real stand up guy! Not only a liar, but a thief and fraudster as well, GG!
By the way, my dear genius, keep in mind...when you refund. You refund, that is pretty much it. There is "no more" to "fraud" the "process". It was designed a specific way for a specific means. If you alter that to avoid account closure that is your business. So far you don't even seem to be denying it. Now if you abuse the system to keep from being "flagged", then yes, you open yourself to claims and "double taps". Try explaining to Paypal why the next customer is asking for a refund on their transaction after you claim you have already given them their money. Do you actually think the 9 to 5 people at Paypal will actually give a damn that you used some exterior method to compensate your customer? I don't think they will. They will look at their screen like a robot plugged in and say something akin to "Sir, I see on my screen that this transaction has not yet been refunded. I am therefore going to close the claim and issue their refund. Thank you."Don't expect Paypal to go the extra mile. It won't happen. Reasoning with them is futile. (I hope someone posts that Star Trek Borg cube after this) |
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I guess no one seems to wonder how a company can issue refunds of thousands of dollars of pre-order merchandise and Paypal never balks at it? See, Yajaira D Guevara, this is why you're so pathetic. You make statements like this. Who says we issue refunds of thousands of dollars? Your warped little mind? We get very little refund requests in the grand scheme of things. I know you desperately want it to be true that people are asking for refunds in droves, but it's simply not the case. This is why I know a large majority of the whiny brats that cry about BFL still maintain their pre-orders. Frankly, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if you had a stealth order yourself, just like Frizz, but until there's evidence of that, I'll give you props for being one of the few trolls who actually doesn't have a pre-order. You just go on advocating fraud there, Yajaira. You are a real stand up guy! Not only a liar, but a thief and fraudster as well, GG! Joshua Ryan Zerlan, That is definitely trollbait. I don't really have much to say since I am sure everybody will pile on at some point. "This is why I know a large majority of the whiny brats that cry about BFL still maintain their pre-orders." --Joshua Ryan Zerlan |
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It is pretty sneaky. Though they would probably not want anyone to know that their customers might be able to "double tap" them for a refund.
Consider that a customer using Paypal would want an actual refund of a transaction. So they use that workaround to "send" the customer money as a ?"gift"? for what they are owed. The original transaction still remains with that valid refund button. So if that customer still demands the transaction be refunded and open a dispute....they may very well get to "double tap" the refund.
So you you have spent months calling BFL a scam and now you are encouraging people to commit fraud? Really taking the moral high ground here I see! A small tip, when you are trying throw shit at others make sure to not stand in your own shit pile, your shoes tend to get messy that way. Haha, do you expect anything less from Puerto Libre? He's lied repeatedly for months, why not throw some fraud into the mix? He's right up his alley, given his lifestyle. Can you feel the epic wave of back peddling by the likes of Yajaira D Guevara and the rest of the clown crew as they try to claim they never said BFL was a scam or that BFL would never ship or that BFL never had ASICs etc... but they ACTUALLY meant something entirely different. Want to play? Josh[ua] Ryan Zerlan? I expected that those who were emotionally invested in the whole "omg BFL is a scam" thing would have trouble accepting otherwise and would probably look for other reasons for BFL to be in the wrong, but honestly I'm slightly surprised that PL outright advocated fraud. I didn't advocate fraud. If people end up doing it, it is because BFL is misapplying refunds. (IMO) There is no loophole until it is then created. There is an incentive now to close this loophole. I am surprised no one ever realized it. ---------------- I guess no one seems to wonder how a company can issue refunds of thousands of dollars of pre-order merchandise and Paypal never balks at it? Circumvent the way refunds are done and you open up a backdoor to new problems. As long as no one is the wiser the abuse may continue. If you want to say sly crap, go right ahead. Pointing it out is not advocating. Unless you are one of those types that thinks security through obscurity is...security? Let Paypal deal with that issue when they come to it. |
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There is a good reason why Paypal account have metrics. The Paypal system is supposed to catch abnormal surges of money or a spike of refunds and alert them. Working around the refund process to transfer huge quantities of refunded money under the nose of Paypal is against Paypal Policy. This is "fraud" and "abuse" of the Paypal system.
There is a difference between them possibly breaking paypal's terms/rules and encouraging people to commit outright fraud. One get's you thrown out of paypal and one gets you thrown into jail, I'll leave it to you to sort out which one is which Rograz, you can't possibly be serious... If you potentially break/game the system then you are opening large loopholes. The refund process is simple and straightforward for a reason. P.S. I don't encourage anyone to "double tap". It's just "the risk" you run if you refund someone through an outside system (or use an alternative within that said system). People are assholes when it comes to refunds. There is also no way for Paypal to verify that a refund has occurred if the customer lies about it. The people behind Paypal are pretty dumb about alot of things. |
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It is pretty sneaky. Though they would probably not want anyone to know that their customers might be able to "double tap" them for a refund.
Consider that a customer using Paypal would want an actual refund of a transaction. So they use that workaround to "send" the customer money as a ?"gift"? for what they are owed. The original transaction still remains with that valid refund button. So if that customer still demands the transaction be refunded and open a dispute....they may very well get to "double tap" the refund.
So you you have spent months calling BFL a scam and now you are encouraging people to commit fraud? Really taking the moral high ground here I see! A small tip, when you are trying throw shit at others make sure to not stand in your own shit pile, your shoes tend to get messy that way. Haha, do you expect anything less from Puerto Libre? He's lied repeatedly for months, why not throw some fraud into the mix? He's right up his alley, given his lifestyle. Can you feel the epic wave of back peddling by the likes of Yajaira D Guevara and the rest of the clown crew as they try to claim they never said BFL was a scam or that BFL would never ship or that BFL never had ASICs etc... but they ACTUALLY meant something entirely different. Want to play? Josh[ua] Ryan Zerlan? |
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what came to my knowledge after reading that guy's account was the response from BFL_StevenM: "The 45-day default limit on PayPal refunds does not mean that we can't just click "Send Money". " Clearly stating that they are willing, and able, to refund money above and beyond the 45 day limit set by pay-pal. I don't think you understand the situation: Read carefully: "The 45-day default limit on PayPal refunds does not mean that we can't just click "Send Money". This option costs us a tiny fee, but nothing we can't handle. Our PayPal refund period is longer though. Spec was told that PayPal will not allow anyone to send money to the country which is registered on Spec's PayPal account. A bankwire was attempted on 2013-04-05, has not been confirmed by Spec's bank. BFL_Jody will have to check the wire logs and email Spec again." Last I checked the refund button disappears after 60 days. The 45 day limit is (last I checked) for escalating the issue to a claim. The two are different. In either case, I'll call them up right now and ask. |
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It is pretty sneaky. Though they would probably not want anyone to know that their customers might be able to "double tap" them for a refund.
Consider that a customer using Paypal would want an actual refund of a transaction. So they use that workaround to "send" the customer money as a ?"gift"? for what they are owed. The original transaction still remains with that valid refund button. So if that customer still demands the transaction be refunded and open a dispute....they may very well get to "double tap" the refund.
So you you have spent months calling BFL a scam and now you are encouraging people to commit fraud? Really taking the moral high ground here I see! A small tip, when you are trying throw shit at others make sure to not stand in your own shit pile, your shoes tend to get messy that way. Rograz, You seem to be ignorant. Paypal does not allow anyone to offer a refund "outside" of Paypal services. BFL cannot offer an alternative means of compensation. If paid by Paypal, they cannot offer BTC, Wire Transfers, etc. There is a good reason why Paypal account have metrics. The Paypal system is supposed to catch abnormal surges of money or a spike of refunds and alert them. Working around the refund process to transfer huge quantities of refunded money under the nose of Paypal is against Paypal Policy. This is "fraud" and "abuse" of the Paypal system. |
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Well, at least it didn't explode! --------------------- Off-topic, There is word that BFL is probably abusing Paypal refund policy. It seems to keep their account active they are "sending" people money rather than clicking on the refund button. I do not know how extensively this is used, but it sounds like a call to Paypal may clear up whether this "workaround" is acceptable by their policies. It is pretty sneaky. Though they would probably not want anyone to know that their customers might be able to "double tap" them for a refund. Consider that a customer using Paypal would want an actual refund of a transaction. So they (BFL) uses that workaround to "send" the customer money as a ?"gift"? rather than a refund for what they are owed. The original transaction still remains with that valid refund button. So if that customer still demands the transaction be refunded and opens a dispute....they may very well get to "double tap" the refund. I wonder how many other customers got their refund back as "a gift" rather than a standard (and proper) Paypal refund? This came to my knowledge after reading this guys account: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/pre-sales-questions/1606-bfl-fraud-i-can-not-get-refund-5.html |
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even if they started shipping in big volume tomorrow it will still have been a complete disaster for anyone who ordered anything from this company.
Unless you ordered a mug, or a clock... Their clocks have been in stock for 2214 years!  if you include the wattage of the sun to operate that, it isn't very power friendly It is only 58 to 170 petawatts of sunlight? |
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I would suggest not selling your BFL pre-orders. I guarantee you BFL will deliver. $0.10 on the dollar is very low, and likely OP is working towards buying a bunch of preorders at a really good price. If you want to buy out of the product you pre-ordered, try ebay, you might actually turn a nice profit.  How would that work? Paypal buyer protection would leave a huge hole the size of Kansas in their wallet. You are not going to be doing anyone a favor by non-delivery. The only people who can legitimately sell ASIC hardware meant for Bitcoin mining are Avalon Customers. Any Ebay listing with BFL hardware is just plain fraud as none [or 99.99%] of the customers have any hardware. Is this an effort to increase the size and scope of a huge mistake? |
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This is the reason you will never be successful like Yifu and Avalon. You are busy making bets on a message board and calling your customers lying pieces of shit. They are busy shipping units to customers.
Uh, That, and the idea that he is probably paying for these bets with customers funds.... Unless he has a side job...I doubt he gets paid 130k a month or 65k a month to be laying down these huge bets. He has not yet given any indication that he has paid the 1000 BTC that he lost. Yet here he is drawing huge sums of Bitcoins for yet another bet...seemingly on a whim. It just adds to the dysfunctional nature that is BFL. Now we have a COO who is seemingly a gambler with (speculatively) customers funds. If I were a BFL customer I would be dead serious about getting my money back. ASAP! |
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