Someone want to check my calculations?

I'm calculating that assuming Bitcoin gets 280,000,000 GH/s, then assuming it uses the most energy and cost efficient miner I could find, then it costs $2 per GH and uses 0.5W/GH.

This means that the cost to buy the equipment to power the network is $560,000,000.
Also, the Bitcoin network uses 0.5 W per GH.  In other words 280,000,000 * 0.5 = 140,000,000 W


Now I went with the most energy efficient drive after quickly looking around, I found this: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/4tb-3tb-hdd,3183-15.html

The HITACHI Deskstar 5K4000:  http://www.amazon.com/HITACHI-0F14697-Deskstar-5K4000-INTERNAL/dp/B00B6TMG7O

This costs you $130 for 4TB.  So $560,000,000 will buy you ~4,300,000 4TB drives.

4,300,000 drives at 6W per drive gets you 25,800,000 W

Or in other words, ~4 times more energy efficient than Bitcoin..  which is nice but considering how much cheaper it is to forge for Nxt than mine for Bitcoin.. maybe not as much potential as I initially was thinking.  Especially if new Bitcoin mining equipment truly runs at 0.19 W instead of 0.5 W as used for the above calculation.. at which it's maybe half as energy efficient as Bitcoin.

See here: http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2014/08/15/german-startup-says-its-new-chip-halves-bitcoin-mining-energy/

So this would use half as much energy as a similarly sized Bitcoin network.

Here is my much longer analysis of the Nxt network: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1J8uhdshu9epGRrQHBaloGc4itdvuAHZDAUtNDjOhz-8/edit?usp=sharing

It's still a cool idea and hard drives are more reusable though..  idk.  I'll probably still buy a little but it's not as exciting as I was initially thinking unless he can figure out a way to use that data to store something instead of simply mine with it.


Btw, FakeAccount, you may want to read this article on RAM optimizers:
http://www.howtogeek.com/171424/why-memory-optimizers-and-ram-boosters-are-worse-than-useless/

Well.. maybe if Bitcoin had patented the blockchain we wouln't have all these scammy coins you are talking about. lol

You are both saying that other competing systems have ripped off Bitcoin.. then saying that normally inventions are are invented in parallel.  If I truly had the best instant transaction system and it worked, the Bitcoin would copy it right?  If I had a strong patent, then they couldn't, correct?  That is the purpose.  Yes, it is possible for parallel invention to occur and that is not the intended purpose of patents to block.  But that is not the purpose of a patent.

But seriously.. Bitcoin has dismissed Proof of Stake, so another group of people stepped up to try to show that it could be done securely.. that doesn't make alt coins scammy.  If he didn't want alt coins around, then Satoshi shouldn't have released Bitcoin open source.

And yes, the work is internal to the blockchain BUT as long as you have the correct genesis block, you can check it all on your own.  Somewhere along the way someone would've had to cheat the system otherwise.  I will agree that it makes trimming the blockchain harder to do.. but not impossible.  Not to the point where it can't be done securely.

I will grant you that some of the proof of stake security enhancements do use information that requires a little bit of trust but once you are up and running and sure you are on the correct branch, then you will continue along that branch, even in the face of an ~90% attack on the network.

Anyway, clearly you and I have moral compasses and looks like we'll just have to agree to disagree on the patent issue.  I'm not intending to use it to block Bitcoin from anything or chrage extremely unreasonable rates or anything like that.

I was saying that this algorithm was something that Bitcoin could use as well.. yes, I happened to mention Nxt.  It's a great coin.  You insulted it, so I defended it.  I was not going out of my way to advertise it.  In fact I specifically said I was implementing it there first as a test case.. though to be honest it's because it's a great coin, with a great community, and because I promised them I'd implement it and I want to stay true to my word.  Also because I have received a lot of help from the Nxt community with this idea, so I feel it's fair to give back.  I haven't gotten any help from Bitcoin on this project.. I don't feel I need to give them my idea for free. And yes, my signature does advertise Nxt.  Because it's a great coin that doesn't get the credit it deserves and I want people to see that there are supporters out there.  Just because this isn't a Nxt thread doesn't mean that I should sit back, as you attack Nxt and not defend it.

A patent isn't an attack, it's a protection to make sure that I don't do the hard work so someone else can profit off of it. Just because nobody else around here is patenting things, doesn't make it a bad thing.  I'm grateful that a lot of work has been done in this field by people who are truly committed, but yes I want to make money off of my ideas.  I've only been out of college a few years, and I love the idea of being an entrepreneur and helping make the world a better place.  That doesn't

And you notice that you never just asked what the idea is?  But yes after you announce that you want to help invalidate my potential patent, then I don't exactly feel like sharing the idea with you and helping you do so.

And the issue with 'Nothing at stake' is that everyone argues that you could forged you could forge along multiple chains.  But in order to do that you have to get a stronger chain than the competition to have the network accept it or else they will discard it. In order to do this, probabilistically 50+% of the forging power would have to participate in this to sustain it for any reasonable about of time.  So yes, you do need a majority of the forging power to participate.  There are other attacks as well.

If this is the kind of reception Come-From-Beyond recieved, then I don't blame him for not having a great attitude.  Maybe something got lost due to this being done via text instead of in person.  I'm defending myself and the coin I'm involved with, I have not criticized Bitcoin or attacked you, and in fact was offering to help out by fixing one of Bitcoin's biggest problems.  You mean while have implied I'm a parasite, called alt-coins scammy, insulted my intelligence, etc.

And no, I didn't 'pay a single bitcent' for your knowledge.. I spent months and months working and thinking and trying to solve a problem, which is a form of payment itself.

If you have really done this much great work, you should ask the Bitcoin Foundation or people if you can be paid for it.  How do you keep yourself alive off for years off of the donations of a dozen Bitcoins?

If someone else thinks I'm being unreasonable there, please tell me so.

I'll address history key attacks as well, which I assume is what you are talking about.  Nxt has thought of those as well and has solutions.

Please stop trying to make me out like I don't know what I'm talking about.

You know, if you'd had a reasonable discussion with me, instead of dinging my reputation, and believing that there is no way that I could possibly understand how blockchains work..  you may have actually been able to convince me not to patent.  A discussion might change my mind.. but putting me down and telling me I don't "understand basic technology"? Forget about it. Back to work on the patent.

I will agree that there are a lot of generous people in this field.  You also realize that you have no idea how much I'm willing to sell it for.  I wasn't planning on being unreasonable but if this is the kind of reception I get?  I actually thought that I was being helpful to Bitcoin by announcing that I've solved one of your biggest problems.

Sure, let me finish up this patent and as soon as it's patent pending I can throw something up and let people analyze it and attack it.

Well, if they are using the algorithm I wrote, then I feel like it is reasonable to expect to be paid for it.  After all, I have spent a year learning all I could about blockchains and at least half a year figuring out how to make decentralized instant transactions work in the context of a blockchain and years before that learning about computer software, hardware, and math.  And patents are a good thing, because I will now be able to share this algorithm and provide Bitcoin with something very good in the process.  But I wouldn't have spent that much time working on it, if my intention wasn't to try to figure out how to make money off of it.  So in this case, patents are providing something new to the system that may have not been discovered for years to come.  If it was so obvious, then surely someone would have figured it out, right?

NXT's algorithm is actually very secure, I'm in the process of writing a paper explaining how Nxt solves the Nothing At Stake Problem.  Which let's face it, is only an issue if over approximately 50% of the forging stake is running a version of the software that tries to be selfish and work together to form attacking branches.  I would be happy to run it by you and hear your thoughts.  I suspect you haven't heard one key part of the algorithm that fixes the nothing at stake issue and provides 90% protection to the network.

Congrats on working for donations only..  but did you invest early yourself?  Maybe not the only reason, part surely part of your reason for working on Bitcoin is in order to increase the price of the Bitcoin you own. Maybe you actually are that selfless.. it's nice to have those kinds of people in the world.  But I've spent the last 6 months surviving off of less than minimum wage, specifically because I had and initial idea and wanted to flesh it out, analyze it from all angles and figure out how to do this.

And why do I want money?  Because most of my life I haven't had enough of it and have had to pinch pennies and scrounge to make sure that I could maintain a reasonable quality of life, it would be really nice to have a nice financial cushion.  At that point, I will likely be a lot more generous.  For me it's not about being greedy or wanting a nice fancy sports car.

It's funny that people working on money believe that money can be evil.. money can be a good thing and a good incentive for getting things done.

Many people have looked at it.. no worries, it should work and provide fast, secure transactions.  I have spent a lot of time looking into prior art, I'm pretty sure it is unique.. though that is a risk of course.

And if it really does work as well as it seems it should, then I think that Bitcoin will be willing to pay a little bit for it.. either that or be beaten by Nxt which will have this feature working.  Which is fine by me too.

Also, I love cryptocurrency and I think it's got a bright shiny future ahead of it.. I'll be honest I'm mostly invested in it because I wanted to make money and the reason I invented this algorithm was because I was looking to make money and help out Nxt, and I don't think that's selfish.. you got in early right?  Why haven't you sold your Bitcoins and worked on Bitcoin for minimum wage in order to be selfless?

Actually, I'm in the process of patenting a decentralized, secure, fast instant transaction system.. should be easily able to be integrated into Bitcoin at which I'll have to see if Bitcoin is willing to buy the patent off of me.  We're sticking it into Nxt first though, partially to test if it works.  Should provide sub second transaction confirmations and works nicely with the current blockchain implementations.

Ahh.. gotcha.  Thought you were dumping BTC on an exchange in exchange for BURST

Are you sure that's the right id?

I'm getting:  "An unknown error occured."

What's Hardinvest?

How does this work?  Which exchange(s)?

Assuming you've seen this but Microsoft's write up on Permacoin:
http://cs.umd.edu/~amiller/permacoin.pdf

Their way of doing proof of storage, I believe in a way the allows storing actual data and something burstcoin has clearly thought in first post.

My bad.. good.. got to there from a Burst page, thought this was a burst dedicated website.

Though I'm actually surprised if it is indeed over 100mb.. not enough to kill the coin but at this size.. a little bit surprised.

Thanks.

I was thinking I might buy a $100 worth of Burst.

But blockchain size of 23.79 GB when it's only three months old??
Source: https://bchain.info/BTC/

This works in a Proof of Stake System where you can lock up or track the other coins within your fork.. with proof of work though, just move your miner to a new wallet address, and how can you possibly prove whether 'new' miners are valid or invalid?

Yet another positive for Proof of Stake

So it affects payment processors like GoCoin and BitPay?  It means more work short term making sure they are up to date with regulations but in the long run more business for those companies since individual merchants will want to let them deal with the KYC laws.  It seems to me like it affects merchant to Bitcoin processors more than business to business.

If BitPay has to know it's customers.. which are merchants.. that's not a bad idea.  If it's everyday consumers, that's bad. I still don't feel a Bitcoin killer but very bad.

Does it affect customer to cryptocurrency processing solution?  Maybe customers will have to have Bitcoin addresses linked to known identities.. which would be bad but cryptocurrency killer?  I don't think so.  And when sending person to person transactions, this does not apply, which is one place where cryptocurrency is particularly valuable.

Was a bad idea to send a letter asking that question though, remember, it's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission.

Why?  It was already the case that Bitcoin exchanges had to implement Know Your Customer (KYC) for USA.. doesn't sound to me like this is saying anything new in that regard.

1) Nxt
2) BTC

That's about it..  BitShares might be worth looking at and Ethereum might provide something interesting but hard to speculate considering they say they don't think they'll have anything working until Feb.

In my opinion, Nxt is by far the most interesting.  Lots of very good stuff going to be released in the near future.

So as I understand SPV(simplified payment verification proof), every single miner in this other network would need to run a copy of the Bitcoin blockchain in order for this to work?

Also, please get your vitamin D levels checked as vitamin D deficiency is often linked to schizophrenia.. I think bluemeanie might honestly believe all these conspiracy theories.  Though it doesn't explain why he thought he was owed 1 million Nxt for almost 0 work and didn't return it.

Personally, I recommend hashrate.org instead of Battlecoin.

It automatically mines for smaller cryptos, dumps them on the market and buys Nxt with them then transfers them into your Nxt wallet.  If you see the potential that POS has, it helps you put your old mining equipment to use accumulating POS coins.  Either way, helps hedge your bets regarding POS vs POW.

My money's mostly on Nxt.. best POS algorithm and will soon be 90% attack resistant.. and that's a proof of stake attack, not a proof of work attack.  Which means barely any energy is needed (Bitcoin uses more than facebook.. Nxt uses approximately 20,000 times less energy.. which translates to lower transaction fees.. which translates to more customers).  Keep in mind that Bitcoin is currently recommending a $0.50 transaction fee to make miners profitable.. they are just all mining at a loss figuring that once Bitcoin takes off that will become profit.

With Nxt, you invest as much as you'd invest into a miner into Nxt itself and you are instantly profitable.  Add in the leased forging where you lend your forging power to someone else and suddenly even customers who have $20 worth of Nxt sitting in their Nxt account can generate interest over time.  Not to mention that

Trust me.. I've researched POW and Nxt.. Nxt is going to be huge someday and everyone will be wishing they'd gotten in on it like they wish they'd bought Bitcoin early.

Mostly this.. otherwise why would they care?

Plus many of them don't understand BTC and have heard about Silk Road and Mt. Gox and didn't look much further.

Also a little bit of this:
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/your-online-secrets/201409/internet-trolls-are-narcissists-psychopaths-and-sadists

Trolls largely just enjoy trolling and BTC is a good place to do it, people might actually lose money off of their trolling, which they love!

Eventually people realize they are trolls, they get a bunch of negative trust votes.. and they switch to a new account that hasn't been blacklisted by the community yet.