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3461  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What do you think about Warren Buffet and Others? on: February 23, 2018, 11:21:28 PM
Hello,

I had read a few months ago that many people like warren buffet had bad perspective for cryprocurrency. He said that bitcoin will have a bad ending.

Do you think it's proper for him to gave a comment like that?

IMO it's not proper. Even if he was an expert in stockmarket but he was commenting on cryptomarket.

It's like an Electrical Engineer questioning the structural integrity of a building design by a Civil Engineer.

Warren Buffett made his money by finding the safest investments and slowly building up his wealth consistently over a period of decades. That describes his approach to investment decades ago and its still the same today. Bitcoin being a new emerging technology which is relatively untested there is likely zero chance Warren Buffett would ever invest in it. Slow and steady is his signature move. I don't think Warren Buffett has ever invested in something new. He tends to favor tried and tested technologies which he believes are undervalued and have a good growth potential.

It is true that equities markets where Buffett made his money, valuate differently than precious metals or crypto currencies like bitcoin. There is the P/E metric in equities markets which could allow a better price/value approximation. Gold or bitcoin have no similar analogue. To some degree: you're right that Buffett is commenting outside his area of expertise. Also Buffett isn't someone who invests in new technologies and so one might criticize him there, too. He's not known for having skill or experience in recognizing good emerging technologies to invest in.

Buffett has always attacked gold and investments other than equities markets. Its nothing new from him.
3462  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: bitcoin sports broker on: February 23, 2018, 11:08:59 PM
so was wondering why we don't see such thing in bitcoin gambling , I mean imagine accessing all the bitcoin bookies from one site and getting the best of the odds without the need of keeping your btc moving between bookies

this may be a million dollar ICO project  Grin

Good idea.  Smiley  I'm not certain how high in demand better odds are or what the average split is between high books and low books. Most gamblers I've come across seem to want additional betting props and live betting. Those could be the two features which are highest in demand. Props and live betting may also be the most dangerous and high risk features for sportsbooks to offer to customers due to the elevated odds in props and what could be a higher probability of winning with live betting.
3463  Economy / Economics / Bitmain, the largest mining hardware manufacturer made $4 billion last year on: February 23, 2018, 10:54:43 PM
Quote
Bitmain, one of the largest Bitcoin miner and hardware manufacturer has made around an estimated $4 billion in operating profits.

The price of Bitcoin and other Cryptocurrencies have increased exponentially in the last year creating a great demand for GPU’S and ASIC based hardware miners.

To have a comparison in terms of revenues, big companies like Goldman Sachs or chip making companies which are in business for multiple decades usually made around the same kind of operating profits.

Bitmain is located in Beijing, China and was founded by Jihan Wu. The company has been created in 2013 when Bitcoin is still relatively unpopular. The company apart from selling the famous Antminers which gets sold out in minutes now also does mining itself and keeps or sells the Bitcoin.

The increased demand for special hardware like GPU’s and ASIC based systems has created a black market where hoarders buy the hardware in the market and sell for exorbitant prices on websites like E-Bay.

This also made it difficult for gamers and other scientific organizations like SETI to obtain the hardware. Nvidia, the largest maker of the GPU’s seems to resolve this by making Cryptocurrency mining specific hardware soon.

Altcoin Mining is a thing in 2018 since it became increasingly difficult to mine any Bitcoin unless you have large scale equipment. The fluctuation in the Cryptocurrency prices also makes it hard for the new miners to break even considering the relatively high prices of the Antminers.

Ethereum, Vertcoin and other Cryptocurrencies seem to be getting a lot of traction from the new miners entering the market.

Bitmain at the moment makes 10nm ASIC chips and is planning to introduce a more sophisticated chips in 2018.

Analysts believe that the demand for the miners will increase when Bitcoin reaches it’s previous All Time High and it seems Nvidia would be fighting for the niche hardware equipment sales to rake in some extra billions of dollars.

http://coinsocial.io/2018/02/23/bitmain-largest-mining-hardware-manufacturer-made-around-4-billion-last-year/

....

"$4 billion." Wow. That's a lot of money. Much more than I expected. This explains why samsung, nvidia and even russia have announced plans to enter the mining hardware business. Hopefully all of these new entries will decentralize the market, bring prices down, reduce electrical consumption of mining units(as silicon lithographic etching processes shrink in nanometers) and produce other benefits to consumers and the industry at large.
3464  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: UFC on FOX 28: Emmett vs Stephens Prediction and Info Thread on: February 22, 2018, 11:56:34 PM
Notes.

-I think Tecia Torres used to train @ american top team. Recently she moved to train with her girlfriend Racquel Pennington @ Elevation Fight Team. Elevation is where TJ Dillashaw, Nate Marquardt, Neil Magny and many other UFC fighters train. They're pretty legit and so I don't think this will have much impact on Tecia Torres but we will see.

-Sarah McMann also recently switched gyms and moved to Team Alpha Male.

-Some of these names have never fought in the UFC before. It might make this card difficult to predict although oddmakers have done a great job with their insider sources in determining odds of late. There haven't been the large number of underdogs winning their fights like there have been in the past.

-Josh Emmett is coming off a KO win of Ricardo Lamas. I think that KO was kind of a fluke. They both threw left hooks. Emmett got there first. It happens in a lot of fights. Carlos Condit vs Dan Hardy and Sergio Pettis vs Ryan Benoit are other examples of the same in the UFC. Both fighters throw left hooks. Guy who gets there 1st wins.
3465  Economy / Economics / 4+ million sign ups for the new Robinhood platform competitor to Coinbase on: February 22, 2018, 10:35:19 PM
Quote
More than 4 million people have signed up to open accounts at Robinhood Markets Inc. as the brokerage app begins offering commission-free trading of Bitcoin and Ethereum today for the first time.

The Palo Alto, California-based firm, which first gained traction by offering a free stock-trading app, said last month that it was getting into digital assets. Trading in the two largest cryptocurrencies is available to users in California, Massachusetts, Missouri, Montana and New Hampshire. The startup aims offer the service in most U.S. states by midyear.

Robinhood had signed up 2 million users as of April, a figure it saw jump to 3 million in November and skyrocket since saying it would offer crypto trading.



This gives another financial technology startup and popular digital currency exchange, Coinbase Inc., a new competitor. It’s unclear how many of these new accounts either moved from Coinbase or have accounts at both startups, but each firm is targeting a similar demographic. According to a recent survey, more than half of Bitcoin holders are between the ages of 18 and 34. Robinhood said its average customer is 30. When comparing the user bases, Coinbase had 13 million users as of late last year.

Anyone that uses the Robinhood platform to buy Bitcoin or Ethereum today comes into a market that has lost roughly half of its value over the past couple of months. After nearly touching $20,000 in December, Bitcoin recently dropped below $10,000.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-22/line-gets-longer-at-robinhood-as-cryptocurrency-trading-begins

....

Summary: A financial named Robinhood (https://crypto.robinhood.com)platform most have never heard of gained more than 1 million new users by offering crypto trading.

Another recent statistic for contrast.

Quote
JANUARY 25, 2018

NEW YORK (Reuters) - E*Trade Financial Corp will acquire 1 million retail brokerage accounts with around $18 billion of clients’ assets from Capital One Financial, it said on Thursday.

The discount brokerage will pay $170 million for the brokerage accounts, which will add roughly $1.7 billion in cash and $115 million in margin loans to E*Trade’s balance sheet, executives said on a conference call with analysts.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-capital-one-fin-m-a-e-trade-financl/etrade-to-acquire-1-million-retail-brokerage-accounts-from-capital-one-idUSKBN1FE35J

An exchange adding more than 1 million new accounts simply by announcing crypto support could highlight the high growth potential of cryptocurrencies. This could also be good news in terms of it decentralizing away from coinbase and adding market competition which could benefit consumers in the form of lower fees, prices and better support.

I would be interested to know this communities stance on commission less trades(as offered by the Robinhood exchange mentioned in this article). Some have said in the past it can be utilized as a means of market manipulation. Is that a fair assessment?   Huh
3466  Economy / Economics / Re: What would happen if another cryptocurrency took Bitcoins place in Market Cap? on: February 22, 2018, 10:14:31 PM
Its difficult to imagine a scenario where an existing altcoin or fork achieves a higher market cap than bitcoin. Perhaps if a future alt were rolled out with significantly superior technical capabilities: greater transactions per second, higher security, better support for loans or assorted substantial improvements it might be possible for an alt to attain a higher market cap. The way things are now, it doesn't look as if there are serious contenders who are likely to dethrone bitcoin anytime soon.

If someday someone succeeds in building a better bitcoin which might be labeled a 2nd generation crypto currency in terms of it representing a noteworthy degree of improvement, then perhaps it could be a good thing if it embodied evolution, innovation and progress. It wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing or a negative if someone manages to improve on something that makes peoples lives better and empowers economies and world markets. Which could in turn elevate living standards and help decrease poverty and have other positive net effect.
3467  Economy / Economics / Re: Update: Venezuelan state issued crypto to be backed by oil, gas, gold & diamond on: February 21, 2018, 08:48:57 PM
Apparently Venezuela has already raised $735 million from it's pre-sale:

https://www.rt.com/business/419397-venezuela-petro-cryptocurrency-maduro/

Quote
Investors have purchased some $735 million worth of Venezuela’s oil-backed cryptocurrency on the very first day of pre-sale, according to President Nicolas Maduro, who praised it as means of breaching the US financial blockade.

“Today, a cryptocurrency is being born that can take on Superman,” Maduro announced on Tuesday, referring to the US as a comic character. The Venezuelan leader, however, provided no details about the first investors in the ‘petro’, which is backed by the country’s oil, gas, gold and diamond reserves.

“The Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela guarantees that it will receive PETRO as a form of payment for national taxes, fees, contributions and public services, taking as a reference the previous day's Venezuelan oil basket price with a discount,” says the official website for the newly-launched asset, which is set to go public next month.

Interesting, thanks for sharing + merited.

Venezuela may accurately be described as a sinking ship. I would be very surprised if anyone invested $735 million in the strength of their oil with its dwindling reserves or their economy which doesn't look as if it will recover anytime soon.

I know some who say venezuela and russia could form an alliance as both are under economic sanctions from the european union and united states. I think that statement is similar to the news media claiming Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden were forming an alliance which needed to be stopped by a war in iraq. It may not make sense in many different ways. Venezuela and russia are both major oil providers and perhaps more competitors than allies. Venezuela also may not have much to contribute towards an alliance with russia. They are unable to provide for their own people much less for an ally.

If venezuela did receive $700 million in funding, I think it may have come from bankers who are hoping to own a stake in venezuela which they can redeem later for greater value if the country enters a post crash era where its assets are liquidated.
3468  Economy / Economics / Re: Switzerland is thinking about erasing debt-money ! on: February 21, 2018, 08:12:31 PM
This is incredible !

They will hold a referendum about the separation of money and debt, requiring commercial banks to no longer create money out of nothing !

There is hope !

See: https://www.trustnodes.com/2018/02/19/switzerland-hold-historic-referendum-sovereign-money


This could be doomed to failure.

Switzerland is home to swiss banks who are known to provide tax shelters for the wealthy. A large part of switzerlands economy and business model depends upon them incentivizing means for the wealthy to avoid paying the taxes everyone else must pay. As such they are far from being objective or reliable in this analysis. The most likely scenario here is they will use this as a platform to discredit ideas of money and debt being separated having value as a means of benefiting society.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, does anyone know how houses were financed before fractional reserve banking was invented? How did people afford real estate or homes in an era when the gold standard was utilized or gold and silver were the most commonly used methods of payment?

I think there are many interesting points and questions involved in this topic. Unfortunately I do not think we will ever see a legitimate attempt made to answer those questions or to disseminate information which might benefit society or civilization at large. At most all we will see from this is lpropaganda and political spin designed to influence people into supporting fractional reserve banking, tax shelters for the wealthy and other things which redistribute wealth to one percenters.
3469  Economy / Economics / Re: Central Bank of Poland paid a 1,000,000 subscriber youtuber to FUD cryptos on: February 21, 2018, 08:05:08 PM
Sadly, this is not surprising. There is a lot of money thrown at those who spread lies and misinformation. On the flipside those who made an effort to educate or inform the public on what the right policies to support are, such as Martin Luther King Jr. or Malcom X are attacked mercilessly by the establishment. Many of the viewpoints and perspectives presented by the media are designed to influence people into supporting policies which are worst for their own self interests.

Being against crypto currencies and bitcoin is what is worst for the public and for humanity and so there will undoubtedly be large sums of money thrown behind encouraging people to support those campaigns. Just as there are large sums of money thrown behind support of other campaigns which are bad for communities, families and the publics own self interest.
3470  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: UFC 221: Romero vs Rockhold Prediction and Info Thread on: February 21, 2018, 07:17:05 PM
I didn't watch the fight as I only see a few interesting fights in the card but according to some sports news outlet, this is one of the lowest buys in PPV in UFC history and they are saying that Boxing is starting to pick up again while UFC continues with its low PPV buys. I guess its because they only have a few fighters left that attracts PPVs.

UFC fighters don't have careers that last very long. Many of them burn out after a short time. Ronda Rousey, Conor McGregor, Jon Jones, Cain Velasquez have all not been active and UFC PPV numbers have fallen as a result. I think fans are irritated as many of their heroes and fighters they develop an emotional attachment to don't last very long as champions in MMA. Its not like boxing where Manny Pacquiao or Floyd Mayweather dominate for periods lasting decades.

Casual fans probably don't know who Luke Rockhold or Yoel Romero are. A lot of people seem to not like Rockhold for whatever reason. Yoel Romero also doesn't speak english very well which makes it difficult for fans to relate to him. Unfortunately, I don't think this card was going to do well with both of them headlining it.

3471  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Israel Confirms It Will Tax Bitcoin as Property on: February 21, 2018, 07:12:25 PM
Quote
The circular explains that profits from cryptocurrencies will be subject to capital gains tax at rates between twenty percent and twenty-five percent

In the USA the higher tax rate is reserved for cases where someone buys and holds for less than 12 months.

The lower tax rate applies to cases where investors buy and hold for a period longer than 12 months.

In this way the capital gains tax can encourage HODL investing strategies which in turn have a net effect of increasing price stability and decreasing volatility. This implies that a capital gains tax applied to crypto could decrease volatility, encourage HODL and do away with the massive price fluctutations we've seen since crypto futures were introduced and bitcoin became more an instrument of speculation than its historical role of being a method of storing value via HODL.

Quote
individuals mining or trading cryptocurrencies in connection with businesses must pay a seventeen percent value-added tax (VAT) in addition to capital gains tax.

It helps to remember chinese miners probably won't have to pay this tax, which is a big part of why they're so dominant. The deregulation present in chinese markets gives them a massive advantage which deters competition on a global scale.
3472  Economy / Economics / Re: Beliefs about money and wealth on: February 20, 2018, 08:54:01 PM
What of these do you agree with? What other beliefs do you have about money?

1 - Millionaires are greedy, that is why they become millionaires.
2 - Company managers just want to use the workers to make themselves rich and others poor.
3 - Having money is a question of luck, if not of "gods grace".
4 - Debt is always bad.
5 - To make money, you just need to have a great idea nobody thought off.
6 - Cryptos are the way to make money and be successful without having to put effort into it.
7 - To become rich I just have to believe in Bitcoin because many people have become rich doing that.
8 - To become rich I just have to be more clever and streetwise than everyone around to get my share of the cake.

Your turn to think ...

1. I think that's more a negative stereotype.
2. There are documented cases of CEO's firing as many workers as they can to give themselves a pay raise. Not certain if "company managers" are high enough on the food chain to achieve similar things.
3. Jesus said it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. That's an interesting comment to me from a religious and societal perspective.
4. If I remember right Robert Kiyosaki and those like him like to preach the importance of building assets and income rather than the idea of debt being evil.
5. I think this one involves nature abhorring a vacuum and investments and businesses which fill a vacuum being more successful via originality contributing towards an easier time attaining market share and value than in more heavily saturated consumer markets. To add to that Thomas Edison said "genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration". Everyone has an good idea for a business or product. Very few are willing to put in the work or make the commitment to make their ideas or plans a reality.
6. The boat has likely already sailed on that one.
7. Bitcoin may not have a high enough growth potential atm for that to be true.
8. I think that one neglects the importance of having some type of team or support group
3473  Economy / Economics / Re: Cryptocurrency Market Capitalizations are misleading on: February 20, 2018, 08:43:38 PM
There's an alternate school of thought which says: cryptos market cap devaluing wipes out the "weak" money and "weak" investors leaving behind stronger and better adapted investors and money, resulting in a more powerful and robust crypto market. (There are memes which parallel these ideas, that are jokes. The one about alcohol wiping out weak brain cells, leaving only the stronger and fitter brain cells behind is lols.)

On a more serious note. Even in commodities and equities markets, there will be many who argue intermittent price corrections, such as cryptos recent decline, can be healthy for markets and the economy. The massive decline of the ICO market could benefit crypto over the long run. The type of large scale devaluation which hit ICO's recently wiped out many of the scammy and overvalued investments. When that occurs, the more legitimate and higher quality investments survive. This could benefit ICO's over the long term. Bitcoin's recent decline might also do away with some of the lower quality or scam based operations, leaving behind better opportunities and a safer more reliable market. It may not be difficult to find examples of value increasing as market cap decreases.
3474  Economy / Economics / Re: Vitalik Buterin sold himself on: February 20, 2018, 08:15:42 PM
First of all it is always a good thing to diversify your assets so him suggesting we go traditional route is not bad in any sense.

If either the european union or united states default on deficit/debt. Going the traditional investment route could be bad if the euro/dollar implode. Either bitcoin or alts could be a safer investment than stocks. The DOW average declining could be considered evidence of this: savvy investors may be selling their long term HODL holdings in anticipation of a crash.

It helps to remember very few saw the subprime mortgage crisis coming. No one could remember the value of US real estate declining. Many believed real estate to be a bullet proof investment immune to price corrections or devaluation. As a result, subprime mortgage derivatives were heavily leveraged even as potentially toxic assets which exacerbated the economic & financial damage inflicted when a crash finally came.

It is possible anything denominated in dollars or euros could be described as sinking ships. While banks and others fund anti crypto FUD campaigns labeling bitcoin a "sinking ship which could fall to zero at any time" that description could more accurately describe fiat currencies given the large deficits and politicians insistence on continuing their flawed policy of spending and taxing their way out of debt.

Also in regard to Vitalik Buterin some might find the following interesting.

This is what goldman sachs says:

Quote
Most cryptocurrencies are likely to fail with their value falling to zero, Goldman Sachs said in a note, comparing the current market to the "internet bubble of the late 1990s."

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/07/most-cryptocurrencies-will-crash-to-zero-goldman-sachs-says.html

This is what Vitalik Buterin says:

Quote
"Reminder: cryptocurrencies are still a new and hyper-volatile asset class, and could drop to near-zero at any time," Vitalik Buterin said on Twitter. "Don't put in more money than you can afford to lose."

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/19/ethereum-creator-vitalik-buterin-warns-about-cryptocurrency-investment.html

Is it interesting how they both repeat near to an identical message?

Where's the diversity of opinion and views they love to preach about?   Grin
3475  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: UFC FN 126: Cowboy vs Medeiros Prediction and Info Thread on: February 20, 2018, 08:07:20 PM
Cowboy improved his boxing and punching technique a lot in this fight. In the past he used to rely on his kicks with his hands mostly used to set up his kicking techniques. I don't think Cowboy has hurt or finished anyone with his hands since he fought Melvin Guillard around 5 years ago.

Derrick Lewis looked like he didn't train much wrestling or grappling in preparation to fight Marcin Tybura. Lewis usually has a good wrestling game. He might have cut down on his wrestling training to ease the strain on his injured back. It'll be interesting to see if he opts for surgery in the future (as so many have) or cuts corners on his future training to avoid injuring his back further(assuming it hasn't 100% recovered).

There weren't many surprises on this card which is surprising in itself. Hope I can do better on the next one with my gambling. I barely scraped by to get ahead on this 1.
3476  Economy / Economics / Re: Update: Venezuelan state issued crypto to be backed by oil, gas, gold & diamond on: February 20, 2018, 01:19:46 PM
Oil is traded on world markets only for dollars.

It is true that before 2017 things were 100% that way for a long time.

In 2017 however china (being the largest importer of oil in the world) announced plans for oil transactions to be denominated in the yuan (china's native currency):

Quote
China has grand ambitions to dethrone the dollar. It may make a powerful move this year

    China is looking to make a major move against the dollar's global dominance, and it may come as early as this year
    The plan is to price oil in yuan using a gold-backed futures contract in Shanghai, but the road will be long and arduous

China is looking to make a major move against the dollar's global dominance, and it may come as early as this year.

The new strategy is to enlist the energy markets' help: Beijing may introduce a new way to price oil in coming months — but unlike the contracts based on the U.S. dollar that currently dominate global markets, this benchmark would use China's own currency. If there's widespread adoption, as the Chinese hope, then that will mark a step toward challenging the greenback's status as the world's most powerful currency.

China is the world's top oil importer, and so Beijing sees it as only logical that its own currency should price the global economy's most important commodity. But beyond that, moving away from the dollar is a strategic priority for countries like China and Russia. Both aim to ultimately reduce their dependency on the greenback, limiting their exposure to U.S. currency risk and the politics of American sanctions regimes.

The plan is to price oil in yuan using a gold-backed futures contract in Shanghai, but the road will be long and arduous.

"Game changer it is not — at least not yet," said Gal Luft, co-director of the Institute for the Analysis of Global Security, a Washington based think tank focused on energy security. "But it is another indicator of the beginning of the glacial, and I emphasize the word glacial, decline of the dollar."

Beijing faces skeptical global oil markets and global perceptions it exerts too much state control. Those factors will hinder its drive to build a viable oil pricing benchmark that's able to compete with more established benchmarks like West Texas Intermediate or Brent (both dollar-denominated).

The architects of the "petro-yuan" face an uphill struggle in dislodging the "petrodollar" and, with it, more than four decades of U.S. dollar-priced oil. Attracting interest from entrenched and active markets in Europe, the U.S. and the Middle East — used to price more than two-thirds of the world's oil worth trillions of dollars – poses another major challenge.

"Many, many futures contracts are launched because they make some sense from a logical market point of view and they get a lot of attention. But then they die because the key is liquidity," said Jeff Brown, president at FGE, an international energy consultant.

There are really only a handful of truly global oil contracts from which all else is based, Brown explained, adding: "It will be extraordinarily difficult to change that."

Level playing field?
Another obstacle standing in the path of China's ambitions to price oil in yuan is the currency itself. The yuan is not yet fully convertible, it's fixed daily, prone to intervention and subject to capital controls.

Given that regime of tight control over the currency, many global players are likely to assume a yuan-denominated oil benchmark would be firmly under Beijing's thumb.

"My biggest reservations are the role of the Chinese central government, potential state intervention and favoritism toward Chinese companies," said John Driscoll, director of JTD Energy Services in Singapore and a former oil trader whose career spans nearly 40 years.

"Will the contract create a level playing field? The biggest challenge in global oil markets may be ensuring that no country or entity garners a dominant advantage," Driscoll added. "China may be world's fastest growing and most formidable energy consumer, but its central government plays a dominant role in the energy sector."

Beijing is likely to lean heavily on state-owned oil companies to adopt the yuan-based contract in an effort to drum up activity and generate sufficient liquidity — the lifeblood of any financial instrument. But despite the scale they bring, involving such state-backed players risks discouraging participants outside China.

Final stage
The main hope for the survival of a yuan-based oil futures contract, according to FGE's Brown, is that the government pushes the Chinese national oil companies onto the exchange.

Still, he added, "Most counterparties will not want anything to do with this contract as it adds in a layer of cost and risk. They also don't like contracts with only a few dominant buyers or sellers and a government role."

Beijing is plowing ahead regardless, and state-run media reported in September the plan was "moving swiftly."

Yuan pricing and clearing of crude oil futures is the "beginning" of a broader strategic push "to support yuan pricing and clearing in commodities futures trading," Pan Gongsheng, director of the State Administration of Foreign Exchange, said last month.

To support the new benchmark, China has opened more than 6,000 trading accounts for the crude futures contract, Reuters reported in July.

'Well-advanced'
The market's response to the yuan-priced oil benchmark is likely to be lukewarm at first, "but could grow over time, especially if it sparks other commodity hedging tools," said Rachel Ziemba, managing director of emerging markets at Roubini Global Economics.

China is likely to approach its main crude oil suppliers in the Middle East, Russia and Asia — some of who already accept the yuan as payment — to price their cargoes off a Chinese benchmark.

"The U.S. coverage is dropping off," said Juerg Kiener, managing director and chief investment officer of asset manager Swiss Asia Capital. "Iraq, Russia and Indonesia have all joined in non-dollar trades."

The petro-yuan is "well-advanced" and already "structurally in place," Kiener added: "As China is an importer it will push harder to get yuan contracts."

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/24/petro-yuan-china-wants-to-dethrone-dollar-rmb-denominated-oil-contracts.html
3477  Economy / Economics / Update: Venezuelan state issued crypto to be backed by oil, gas, gold & diamond on: February 20, 2018, 12:12:57 PM
Quote
Venezuela will launch a pre-sale of its commodity-backed "petro" cryptocurrency on Tuesday.

President Nicolas Maduro hopes the country's own digital currency will help it to make financial transactions and get around Western sanctions.

Both the United States and the European Union have imposed economic sanctions on Venezuela over their opposition to its autocratic government. Last year, the Economist Intelligence Unit's Democracy Index downgraded Venezuela from a "hybrid regime" to an "authoritarian regime" due to its "continued slide towards dictatorship."

Venezuela's petro token will be backed by its oil, gas, gold and diamond reserves, according to the government. The country's cryptocurrency regulator said Friday that it would draw investment from Qatar, Turkey and other Middle Eastern countries, as well as from European nations and the U.S.

The petro will not be available in the Venezuelan bolivar initially. Venezuela's own hard currency collapsed as the South American state grappled with crippling hyperinflation.

Caracas has attracted a number of skeptics as it gears up to launch its cryptocurrency pre-sale.

Many doubt its digital currency venture will bring much benefit to either Venezuela's economy or its people, who are suffering shortages in food and medicine due to price controls.

Francisco Toro, a Venezuelan journalist, political scientist and blogger, said that Venezuela was turning to cryptocurrency out of "desperation" because of its economic isolation from the United States.

"They have been trying to figure out ways to get around anti-money laundering sanctions provisions, and crypto is maybe one way they can do that," Toro, who is editor of the blog Caracas Chronicles, told CNBC in a phone interview Saturday.

"I do think that part of this is about getting investors from non-traditional lenders, from Russia and China, to put in some more money, to lend fresh cash. The financial sanctions — the U.S. sanctions, the European sanctions — are not the main reason Venezuela can't raise financing. The main reason Venezuela can't raise financing is that macroeconomic finance is a s--- show."

As well as quadruple digit inflation, Venezuela has been facing an oil production collapse. Venezuelan crude production fell 29 percent in 2017. Many fear the accelerated fall in Venezuela's oil output will increase the likelihood of it defaulting on its debts.

Toro said that Venezuela's economic woes have given it a bad credit reputation and that the government was trying to convince itself of the validity of chavismo, the left-wing political ideology established under former President Hugo Chavez.

"This idea that sanctions are hemming demand, that they need to need to get around sanctions, this is chavismo drinking their own Kool Aid and believing their own propaganda."

'Desperation breeds innovation'
But one analyst thinks the petro is an "excellent idea" and could serve as a precursor to similar projects from other world leaders, including Russian President Vladimir Putin.

"Putin and Maduro have very similar problems," Mati Greenspan, senior market analyst at social trading firm eToro, told CNBC in an email last week. "They both have a high dependence on the price of crude oil, which has been rather unstable in the last few years. They both have issues with U.S. sanctions and with the U.S. dollar being the world reserve currency."

He added: "To think that of all the governments and banks who are toying with the idea it would be Nicolas Maduro who gets there first. I suppose desperation breeds innovation."

Reports have emerged in recent months of Russia considering a digital version of its own currency, the rouble. Russia's "cryptorouble" could be used as a means for the country to circumvent Western sanctions, a report in the Financial Times said last month, echoing Maduro's own plans for Venezuela's petro token.

CNBC contacted the Russian government's press office for comment but a spokesperson was not immediately available.

Greenspan gave praise for the country's plan to back petro tokens with its commodity reserves. Maduro has said petro tokens will each be pegged to the price of one barrel of Venezuelan oil.

"It's an excellent idea to back the crypto with a hard commodity as the world is currently flooded with baseless money," he said. "Surprisingly, we've seen very little support for this initiative in the crypto community, most likely because it seems the Venezuelans themselves don't seem to have made up their minds just yet."

Greenspan added: "In any case, I believe that the petro is actually targeting more institutional investors and other governments. They have more to spend then the crypto-billionaires anyway. No matter what happens, this is going to be an excellent pilot for Putin."

Toro, however, expressed severe doubt that other countries — especially Russia — would look to Venezuela's cryptocurrency for inspiration for their own projects experimenting with the technology.

"There is a science establishment in Russia," Toro said, adding, "If Russia is going to launch a crypto, they are not going to copy some banana republic. It's ridiculous. It's totally silly. I do think it's mostly noise."

An expert on cryptocurrencies said he was "not fully convinced" that the petro's backing in oil and mineral reserves would live up to expectations.

"This is basically an E&P (exploration and production) play from the traditional oil and gas market with a large dose of sovereign risk and room for manipulation," Charles Hayter, chief executive of cryptocurrency comparison site CryptoCompare, told CNBC in an email.

Countries hit with sanctions are not alone in considering the possibility of their own digital currency. Many around the world are mulling the idea of virtual currency.

Sweden, for example, is looking into the possibility of a digital version of the Swedish crown, the "ekrona." Cash use in the Scandinavian country has steeply declined in recent years.

Others, including Japan, Singapore and Estonia, are also considering such digital alternatives to hard currency
.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/02/19/venezuela-petro-cryptocurrency-pre-sale-starts-february-20.html

More details on venezuela's petrocrypto emerge.

  • Venezuela will launch a pre-sale of its commodity-backed "petro" cryptocurrency on Tuesday(today?)
  • Backed by oil, gas, gold & diamond
  • "Backed by oil" may not mean much as Venezuelan crude production fell 29 percent in 2017
  • Venezuelan petrocrypto may be an attempt to avoid economic sanctions by the USA and EU

I would also like to contend that currencies being gold backed no longer matters in this day and age. There's no relevent difference between electronic money in a cashless society or bitcoin. Its all printed out of thin air and "baseless money".  Grin

Quote
Greenspan gave praise for the country's plan to back petro tokens with its commodity reserves. Maduro has said petro tokens will each be pegged to the price of one barrel of Venezuelan oil.

"It's an excellent idea to back the crypto with a hard commodity as the world is currently flooded with baseless money," he said.
3478  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What if this guy with 96,651 BTC suddenly cashes out? on: February 19, 2018, 08:34:46 PM
Its not necessarily a single person. It could be a large financial institution like a bank. It could be a large corporation. Apple is sitting on $90 billion dollars in surplus cash, last I checked. It is possible they invested $400 million of their disposable cash on bitcoin secretly as a hedge against potential devaluation of the US dollar. It is also possible that goldman sachs (which has sounded strangely positive on bitcoin lately) or another bank, hedge fund or another investment firm is buying up a "small" $400 mil stake in bitcoin the way an investor might buy gold in a high deficit/debt economy.

I don't know if we'll ever learn the true identity of the mysterious person or group who bought 96,651 BTC. But it is an interesting story for sure. The motive and story behind it will undoubtedly be very interesting as well if its ever publicized.
3479  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Why kyc is even required? on: February 19, 2018, 08:28:21 PM
It might be possible to circumvent KYC by opening a gambling site whose servers are located on an island in international waters, which in theory, could be located outside the jurisdiction of nations attempting to impose taxes or KYC checks. ThePirateBay has done it for a long time. Crypto exchanges and gambling sites doing something similar could represent a natural progression.

In the future there could be a greater demand for infrastructure and services existing outside the jurisdiction of the centralized world. That type of independent competition could be necessary to produce innovation and industry advancement.
3480  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Businesses are now using Bitcoin as a marketing tactic on: February 19, 2018, 07:01:40 PM
Blockchain and bitcoin are both being heavily utilized as marketing gimmicks.

  • Atari's stock jumped 60% after it announced a blockchain based gaming console. They also announced they would issue their own crypto.
  • Kodak's stock jumped 245% after it announced plans to offer a blockchain based service to pay photographers.
  • Long Island Iced Tea's stock gained 183% after it rebranded its name to Long Blockchain Corp.

Yeah. Its definitely becoming a tactic to artificially balloon the value of entities in the private sector. Which in turn is producing a large bubble as many of these assets become overvalued almost identically to the ICO market.
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