That's BADecker's point. Christianity teaches salvation by grace, not by works and it's not a minor difference, it's the main message.
It is wishful thinking to "sit around" and be saved just by your "belief", which is really nothing at all; it is not like you are actually using that belief to "meditate upon God's law day and night" in order to be blessed (Psalms 1). Plus, it is not Biblical. "It is never mere lack of belief in Jesus (as that is usually understood today) that he said would cause a person to go to hell. Merely believing, or not believing, in Jesus is not sufficient to save or damn a person, as many passages show." In Matthew and Luke, "Jesus does not say that these cities would be brought down to Hades because they didn't believe in him. Instead, he says that this would happen because they didn't repent." Now, even BADecker has told me that I must turn my life around according to what Jesus tells me; however, this sounds to me like another way of saying that one does have to obey God's Law and make effort towards that end after all! Is it not said "All have fallen short of God's glory"? God is all-forgiving mercy, and he resides within YOU; thus, you will EARN your spiritual unity by standing responsible for obeying the laws of God, not by some "belief" that tricks you into thinking that someone else has taken responsibility for YOU. I have asked and asked and asked, and neither MMH nor BADecker have anything to say in response to the intelligent Christians who have posted their answers to this question on SE, nor do these two care to answer my questions about how a "savior" is magical thinking, or to contradict my notion that it is not the BEING of Jesus that has any merit, but rather his Oneness with God: http://christianity.stackexchange.com/questions/15353/did-jesus-actually-ever-say-if-you-dont-believe-in-me-you-go-to-hellYou MUST turn your life around to be saved. The more you try, the more you find that you can't do it 100% as is required. Meditating on the law shows you that you can't keep the law. Even if you could, you won't. Since you don't keep the law, you are damned. The next step is to find the way to be saved, the gift of God through faith in Jesus Christ His son.  |
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Okay. We can get mixed up on words a little once in a while. Christianity is the only religion where salvation itself is given by God as a simple and pure gift, if the person accepts it. All other religions that offer salvation have the individual working for it a bit at least. I find that to be a flaw. A murder, rapist, or mass killer could be a Christian. After killing thousands of people, he/she should still be granted access to heaven where everything is great? There is rumor, and strong evidence here and there, that Hitler made it to Argentina after WWII, and died there in his 90s. If Hitler turned to Jesus in repentance for his crimes, and accepted that God would forgive him because of the sacrifice Jesus did on the cross, even Hitler would be saved. Which is obviously a flaw. People like that should not be saved just because he believes in the sacrifice of Jesus. If you believe that Hitler should belong in heaven, then I don't know why I'm even having this conversation with you. The Lord created all of humanity. He loves us all beyond anything we can imagine. The best example is a parent loving his or her child, but it's so far beyond that. He made us in the womb. Psalm 139:13 He wants EVERYONE saved, because He loves us so much. That's why Jesus dying on the cross is such a big deal. He died so anyone can be saved from death. Plus Hitler was demonically oppressed. And though he did what he did (and shouldn't have), he was certainly egged on and led down the wrong path. I understand the whole concept. Believe me I do. I just think it's not a very good one and why other religions have it better. If a person knows that killing is a sin and continues to do it UNDER the name of God. Then I'm not sure why he should be let into God's heaven. If he continued to kill, he would not be Christian. Once you get born again, you'd ask to be filled with the Holy Spirit, and it would change your heart of stone, to a flesh heart, figuratively. You would then, be convicted (have a conscience) telling you it's wrong, and would either follow Jesus's teachings and start getting away from all sin, or fall away and not be Christian (saved) anymore. Those who fall away from the teachings can continue to call themselves Christian and sin, but Jesus will not save them. Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. From what you've said though, he can kill as much as he wants. But if he wholeheartedly believes that the lord is the true savior, then he will be saved. Technically, this is true. But if he keeps on sinning and repenting, he eventually shows that his faith is false. He shows it to himself, and then he has no more faith. Then he is lost. |
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Okay. We can get mixed up on words a little once in a while. Christianity is the only religion where salvation itself is given by God as a simple and pure gift, if the person accepts it. All other religions that offer salvation have the individual working for it a bit at least. I find that to be a flaw. A murder, rapist, or mass killer could be a Christian. After killing thousands of people, he/she should still be granted access to heaven where everything is great? There is rumor, and strong evidence here and there, that Hitler made it to Argentina after WWII, and died there in his 90s. If Hitler turned to Jesus in repentance for his crimes, and accepted that God would forgive him because of the sacrifice Jesus did on the cross, even Hitler would be saved. Which is obviously a flaw. People like that should not be saved just because he believes in the sacrifice of Jesus. If you believe that Hitler should belong in heaven, then I don't know why I'm even having this conversation with you. The Lord created all of humanity. He loves us all beyond anything we can imagine. The best example is a parent loving his or her child, but it's so far beyond that. He made us in the womb. Psalm 139:13 He wants EVERYONE saved, because He loves us so much. That's why Jesus dying on the cross is such a big deal. He died so anyone can be saved from death. Plus Hitler was demonically oppressed. And though he did what he did (and shouldn't have), he was certainly egged on and led down the wrong path. I understand the whole concept. Believe me I do. I just think it's not a very good one and why other religions have it better. If a person knows that killing is a sin and continues to do it UNDER the name of God. Then I'm not sure why he should be let into God's heaven. Part of that answer is that God requires perfection. Simply the fact of our impure genetics damns us all. |
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No, because you said no Jews were victimized
I said that 35 million Slavs lost their lives in the World War 2, out of them 60% being civilians. Why should I count Jewish deaths when I am talking only about Slavs? I had already posted that some 5 million to 6 million Jews perished during the holocaust. But those numbers can't be added up to the "Slavic death toll from WW2". And, no such thing as Slavic Jews? Might be. There are Jews all over the world. |
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Okay. We can get mixed up on words a little once in a while. Christianity is the only religion where salvation itself is given by God as a simple and pure gift, if the person accepts it. All other religions that offer salvation have the individual working for it a bit at least. I find that to be a flaw. A murder, rapist, or mass killer could be a Christian. After killing thousands of people, he/she should still be granted access to heaven where everything is great? There is rumor, and strong evidence here and there, that Hitler made it to Argentina after WWII, and died there in his 90s. If Hitler turned to Jesus in repentance for his crimes, and accepted that God would forgive him because of the sacrifice Jesus did on the cross, even Hitler would be saved. Which is obviously a flaw. People like that should not be saved just because he believes in the sacrifice of Jesus. If you believe that Hitler should belong in heaven, then I don't know why I'm even having this conversation with you. I don't have a clue about Hitler. I was using him as an "if" example. Nobody can save himself. If somebody could, he would start by living for a few hundred years. Are we aware of anyone who is alive and at least 200-years-old? No! If there are any, they are not telling. Most of us die, it seems, before 100. The point is, nobody can save himself. We need someone or something to do it for us, or we are lost. |
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Okay. We can get mixed up on words a little once in a while. Christianity is the only religion where salvation itself is given by God as a simple and pure gift, if the person accepts it. All other religions that offer salvation have the individual working for it a bit at least. I find that to be a flaw. A murder, rapist, or mass killer could be a Christian. After killing thousands of people, he/she should still be granted access to heaven where everything is great? There is rumor, and strong evidence here and there, that Hitler made it to Argentina after WWII, and died there in his 90s. If Hitler turned to Jesus in repentance for his crimes, and accepted that God would forgive him because of the sacrifice Jesus did on the cross, even Hitler would be saved. |
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Actually, the Christian religion is virtually the ONLY religion that has God saving people through the sacrifice of His Son. Virtually all other religions have people saving themselves by what they do, even if that salvation is only for this life. I'm talking about the main message. Obviously the minor details are going to be different. In almost every religion, it would tell you do be good and in the end, you will reach salvation if you 'followed the rules' in this life. Are you implying that eternal salvation or damnation is a minor detail? If you think that's what I was implying, you obviously need to reread my post. In almost every religion, there is salvation or damnation... you can't deny that. Christianity isn't the only special one that offers such promises. Okay. We can get mixed up on words a little once in a while. Christianity is the only religion where salvation itself is given by God as a simple and pure gift, if the person accepts it. All other religions that offer salvation have the individual working for it a bit at least. |
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NEW 2015! Solving 9/11 - Christopher Bollyn Live in Dallas TX Feb 12, 2015More unheard truth about the 9/11 tragedy? Absolutely.
In this live presentation in Dallas, Texas on February 12, 2015, Christopher Bollyn reveals little-known and rarely heard facts about the real perpetrators of one of the biggest crimes of the century.
One of the first Investigative Journalists to tackle the 9/11 tragedy, Christopher Bollyn has put together the most comprehensive, fact-filled presentation you'll ever see. He has written over 135 articles since September 2001 about this tragedy. Think you've heard it all when it comes to 9/11?
Think again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVHstSrC1CQ
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.... Did you ever watch a lion attack some other animal... perhaps on TV, or a DVD, or some video on Youtube? The lion uses the laws of nature to attack. If the other animal doesn't use the laws of nature that he has, to resist the attack, or if he hasn't positioned himself to be out of harms way in the first place (again, according to the laws of nature), he will almost certainly lose. If the IRS or the Pope attack you, and you do not properly resist, you may and probably will lose. Law of nature. No I have not seen a lion attack a TV or a DVD or a Youtube video. I think he may have trouble using a keybaord. Obviously, you have trouble reading. In the '70s, it became evident that many college students needed to take a course in English just to be able to enter college. Now you are proving that it is the same thing today. The question is, how in the world did you ever get in? |
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Actually, the Christian religion is virtually the ONLY religion that has God saving people through the sacrifice of His Son. Virtually all other religions have people saving themselves by what they do, even if that salvation is only for this life. I'm talking about the main message. Obviously the minor details are going to be different. In almost every religion, it would tell you do be good and in the end, you will reach salvation if you 'followed the rules' in this life. Are you implying that eternal salvation or damnation is a minor detail? |
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The main problem with religion is everyone thinks their god is THE god.  But how can you blame them? They're taught to believe in their God and told what to believe ever since they were a child. It's very hard to change someone's views when they've been told the same thing their whole life. Not true. Some of you atheists were good, God-of-the-Bible believers at one time. Now you have your own religion that expresses that you are God. It shows by the decision you make to not accept the god of the Bible in the face of strong evidence that He exists. For however much strong evidence exists that there is a God, there is an equal amount of evidence to prove that God doesn't exist. Perhaps. But there are 3 scientific laws that absolutely prove that God exists. They don't say that He is the God of the Bible, but if you know the Bible, you will see that the Bible God makes total sense with regard to the fact that God exists the way that the 3 scientific laws prove Him to exist. |
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The main problem with religion is everyone thinks their god is THE god. But how can you blame them? They're taught to believe in their God and told what to believe ever since they were a child. It's very hard to change someone's views when they've been told the same thing their whole life. Sure, it may be true for some, but it is not true for all people; some people come to believe in ONE God through their own efforts at self-education. I am an example of one who formerly did not believe, but sought the truth and did find it; it is not all that unusual, my friend; not everyone who believes is brainwashed from birth.  There are even famous atheists who change their way of thinking; one example is: Antony Flew, a champion of atheist beliefs for more than 50 years. In a news article titled "Atheist Discovers 'The Science of God'": "One of Britain's most prominent atheists has decided that God might exist after all. Professor Antony Flew now believes there is scientific evidence supporting the theory of some sort of intelligence behind the creation the universe. Professor Flew, 81, a professor emeritus of philosophy at the University of Reading, said that this was the only explanation for the origin of life ... "I'm thinking of a God very different from the God of the Christian and far and away from the God of Islam, because both are depicted as omnipotent Oriental despots - cosmic Saddam Husseins," he said in his new video, "Has Science Discovered God?" The problem with religion is that it attempts to separate the human from God; God resides within you, everyone is capable of following the golden rule, it is ingrained into human consciousness. All monotheists acknowledge only ONE God, so they are really all talking about the same intelligence as described by Anthony Flew above. What made you believe in your God and not some other God? In the end, don't they all practically give the same message? Actually, the Christian religion is virtually the ONLY religion that has God saving people through the sacrifice of His Son. Virtually all other religions have people saving themselves by what they do, even if that salvation is only for this life. |
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The main problem with religion is everyone thinks their god is THE god. But how can you blame them? They're taught to believe in their God and told what to believe ever since they were a child. It's very hard to change someone's views when they've been told the same thing their whole life. Not true. Some of you atheists were good, God-of-the-Bible believers at one time. Now you have your own religion that expresses that you are God. It shows by the decision you make to not accept the god of the Bible in the face of strong evidence that He exists. |
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The main problem with religion is everyone thinks their god is THE god. Now you are agreeing that you have a problem with your religion.  |
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They need to find the salvation of Jesus.
Jesus went through a lot of trouble and pain, and even death, to save us all. People are important.
Salvation?  So you would not need do anything save sit and wait and somehow just to believe HE existed and you would be scooped into the clouds and escape all confrontation with the truth of your actions? Well, it's a little more than simply believe that some guy called Jesus existed. But if you knew Who He was, and knew what He did for you, and attempted to turn your life around to the things He asks of you, yeah, that's all you need. You can sort-of just sit around and wait to be taken to Heaven. In fact, there isn't much else you can do. You can't stop your death, you probably can't levitate, you might be able to work to help others who are in need, and you might spread the Gospel about salvation a little. But essentially, you are simply going to be waiting around until He takes you home... or not... which ever way you are going to go. |
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Love the atheist; hate the atheism. You are losing time. You are making me losing time. Why you care so much about atheists? Thank You. For the same reason that I care about Pope believers. They need to find the salvation of Jesus. Jesus went through a lot of trouble and pain, and even death, to save us all. People are important. |
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Cash! |
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Love the atheist; hate the atheism. |
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Well, I'm an Utopian.
I believe that the best control for gun control is no gun at all. Only militaries should be allowed to use firearms... and if we didn't had the need to make war it would be even better.
A world without guns is a better world.
In a utopia no one would have guns, because no one would want to kill and the military shouldn't exist. In an utopia, there should exist the widest range, variety and distribution of guns. Why? Because nobody would ever harm anyone else with the guns, and guns are great sport. Besides, target practice improves hand/eye coordination, so that people have better use of their faculties for every other purpose. In addition, scientific understanding of the processes that occur with gun usage can be found almost nowhere else; I mean, you wouldn't want to get rid of the game of pool/billiards, would you? |
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This thread could bring out some interesting ideas. However, everybody is religious. Even a vegetable (person) is religiously a vegetable. |
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