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35741  Other / Politics & Society / Re: What happens when we approach a singularity of FAKE? on: September 25, 2015, 07:04:06 PM
Come on, you guys (and gals). He's using all the incidents to confuse you. The thing he is really talking about is the recent findings that black holes do not exist.

So, what happens when we approach a singularity (black hole) of FAKE (doesn't exist)? Nothing.

Smiley
35742  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do people hate islam? on: September 25, 2015, 07:00:57 PM



Student Ripping up the Koran Bible - Muslim Christian Mob enraged






Is it equally insulting and offensive if I have a copy of the Koran on my computer and hit the Delete Key.


Does your computer face mecca? If not that already was offensive...




Curious problem. If the monitor faces Mecca, then you don't. If you face mecca, then the monitor doesn't. If you use a mirror (so both you and the monitor face Mecca), not only do you need to read everything in reverse, but the mirror doesn't face Mecca. What about using optic fibers in some way? Could that be made to work?

Smiley


If you read the kuran in a mirror so its words are reversed, does it teach you about Jesus?




Hey! Maybe that's where English came from.    Cheesy
35743  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Where are the children in the "new testament"? on: September 25, 2015, 06:49:25 PM
Please don't slam the Book shut until all the children get out.   

https://www.biblegateway.com/

Smiley
35744  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do people hate islam? on: September 25, 2015, 06:45:58 PM



Student Ripping up the Koran Bible - Muslim Christian Mob enraged






Is it equally insulting and offensive if I have a copy of the Koran on my computer and hit the Delete Key.


Does your computer face mecca? If not that already was offensive...




Curious problem. If the monitor faces Mecca, then you don't. If you face mecca, then the monitor doesn't. If you use a mirror (so both you and the monitor face Mecca), not only do you need to read everything in reverse, but the mirror doesn't face Mecca. What about using optic fibers in some way? Could that be made to work?

Smiley
35745  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Revelation Prophecies: Rapture? Comet Predictions? JADE HELM? CERN? on: September 25, 2015, 06:32:12 PM
Video: A MUST SEE! Pope Francis Riding On A "Mule" Before U.N. Global Anti-Christ Speech

"Published on Sep 25, 2015

Bible Prophecy Happening Right before our very eyes!
Golf Cart is known as a Mule. No sooner then he gets on the "mule" to hear the babes (children) sing worship and praise to him" he gets right off. "


This could be seen as a mockery of Lord Jesus coming into Jerusalem on a donkey to the sound of singing praises.

Luke 20:46 Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;



Video: NWO To Be Ignited at UN Meeting! New World Religion Ignited at Ground Zero Ceremony!

New World Order To Be Ignited at UN Agenda 21 Meeting! One World Religion Ignited at Ground Zero Ceremony!

"As I woke early this morning, I grabbed my favorite cup of coffee and turned on the television to see the latest news on Pope Francis’s visit to Ground Zero, where they had planed an interfaith prayer ceremony. As I placed my bottom in the chair and flipped to the appropriate channel, I was quickly awakened by the images I witnessed on the screen.

 

To my surprise multiple religious had gathered in their religious garb to commemorate the events that transpired on September 11th, with Pope Francis leading the way. As each representative approached to give their call to “god”, I couldn’t help but feel as if I was living out the Book of Revelation and witnessing a cult ceremony....."




I wonder if the Pope is a knowledgeable participant in all this. I wonder if he realizes just how much he is acting out the false prophet of the end times. Could he actually, honestly think that he is Jesus's representative on earth?

Smiley
35746  Other / Politics & Society / Re: [Vote] Who did 911? on: September 25, 2015, 05:38:20 PM
... YOU are God, my friend... just temporarily pretending that you're not.

YOU get out there and find the truth. Don't assume you already know.

Badecker is God?  Now that's a scary thought.

Scary, but useful.    Cheesy
35747  Other / Politics & Society / Re: What happens when we approach a singularity of FAKE? on: September 25, 2015, 05:37:36 PM
Actually, quantum states do not exist. There is no probability. Everything operates by cause and effect.

However, the imagination of mankind is really marvelous in that it can attach itself to "higher" dimensions in unrecognizable ways, enough so that mankind can think up quantum-like things with relation to the more basic dimensions, so that it looks like quantum exists.

Smiley
Now I can buy quantum tunneling diodes.  I can look at things through a quantum tunneling microscope.

No, wait.  Badecker says quantum states do not exist.

Quantum states cancel each other out. You can seem to hold them momentarily, because of your focus. But they do not really exist.

Smiley
35748  Other / Politics & Society / Re: [Vote] Who did 911? on: September 25, 2015, 05:06:30 PM

Did you ever watch a lion attack some other animal... perhaps on TV, or a DVD, or some video on Youtube? The lion uses the laws of nature to attack. If the other animal doesn't use the laws of nature that he has, to resist the attack, or if he hasn't positioned himself to be out of harms way in the first place (again, according to the laws of nature), he will almost certainly lose.

If the IRS or the Pope attack you, and you do not properly resist, you may and probably will lose. Law of nature.

Smiley

This just shows that you don't know what Natural Law is. You are talking about self-defense (also known as the sacred masculine principle), which is distinct from the non-aggression principle (the sacred feminine principle). The keyword is the initiation of violence. You have the right of self-defense, but NEVER the right to initiate violence. You are not a moral human being if you don't embrace the non-aggression principle. Again I reiterate that I bet Mark Passio will help clarify your belief system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgRjTuQ039g

I've seen a few videos from Karl Lentz... he's good at understanding THEIR game, but like you, he doesn't quite understand the real game that is the reality you are experiencing, which is "governed" not by rich old fucks in suits, but by the Natural Law. Check it out bro.
Didn't mean to confuse you by jumping to one of the most basic natural laws, that of self-defense.

It is hard to determine what Karl Lentz understands. But I don't blame him for not expressing things in a more orderly fashion. With all that study in the legal system, I can understand how it would be difficult to apply common law to everything, all the while saying nothing that someone might interpret as aggression. Karl DOES do a very good job of keeping his words away from aggression. As to what he understands about common law, who knows? He isn't into expressing philosophy, but into doing what works.

How do I know that Karl is having the success that he claims? I don't. But when you see the things that Bill Thornton and Richard Cornforth say, Karl is right on, even better than they are. So, he certainly could be having the successes he says.


I agree. The government's own conspiracy theory - which they tout as the conspiracy truth - is one of the silliest conspiracy theories of all. So, let's get out there and find the truth.

If we don't find the truth, those government perpetrators are known by God. He will judge and punish them according to the amount of punishment that they truly deserve, a judgment/punishment thing that we couldn't do accurately, anyway.

So you've been religiously indocrinated? You can't break free from the belief in "authority" if you worship an external demiurgic entity... YOU are God, my friend... just temporarily pretending that you're not.

YOU get out there and find the truth. Don't assume you already know.


Science that dispels universal cause and effect, or universal entropy, or universal complexity is science that has not been proven true. Thus, God exists.

I have not a clue as to how to create any of the things of the universe. As I grow older, I find that I grow weaker, a thing that I would turn around if I were God. In fact, it seems to be the opposite, sort of. The more I express the God of the Bible as God, the more my youthfulness seems to remain with me.

Smiley
35749  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do people hate islam? on: September 25, 2015, 04:13:37 PM

I'm gonna provide you a link so you understand why your answer is a strawman. But first, I would ask that you re-read the question, and answer it as stated, rather than putting on the Christian lens and ignoring the question.

so, again. If there is a god, it is all powerful, and it wishes to be worshipped, how many religions could their possibly be?

The link following is something I constantly refer to myself. Debate and logic have a specific structure for a reason. Logical fallacies when committed by accident or habit obscure the truth. When committed deliberately, one has to wonder what the true motives of the person committing them are.
http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html


Regarding your link, thanks. But I am not interested in being trained into the limited logic of somebody else. I'll stick to my own limited logic.

If you want REAL logic, fill yourself on the Word of God, the Bible, and there's a good chance you'll wake up.

Smiley

I was once a Christian minister, so you are the one who should check your assumptions. I deliberately do not capitalise 'god', as I find the concept to be... English hasn't the words for the depravity.

With every passing hour, we know more and more about the universe we live in. With each new discovery, the Christian paradigm has less place as anything but a reference for morality. And a rather poor one, since it openly advocates the death of billions.
Training in formal logic allows you a wider understanding of the world, not a limiting one. Without a framework to ask the requisite questions, one has to make assumptions based solely on emotion or unquantifiable data, which will always lead to error. It allows you to not assume, for instance, that the person you are debating has no knowledge of your axioms. A good example is this very discussion. You are proceeding from the axiom that god exists, and is active in the lives of believers. I hold no such belief, and therefore am challenging that axiom. In order for a man such as yourself to have any effect on my way of thinking, you must FIRST establish an axiom that we can agree on. Failing in this, further statements cannot be considered axiomatic.

I do not believe in any gods. You believe in three, most likely. (not all of Christendom is trinitarian). If you're not a trinitarian, you believe in still one more god than I do. The words of bronze age zealots without corroboration or evidence fail utterly to sway me, and probably any person who has a grasp of logic and is NOT raised as a theist. Those, like me, who were raised to believe and then spent a decade trying to make it fit reality, we will be almost impossible to sway to mythical thinking. You'd have to PROVE a thing that, by your axioms, is unprovable and should not be questioned. I, on the other hand, operate from the very basic axiom that a thing that cannot withstand scrutiny is false, and it's derivative corollary that a thing that cannot be proven, while worthy of discussion, should be given little weight.

In my pursuit of religion (initially with the goal of proving it true) I have found almost no difference in the basal paradigms of all of them. That these basal paradigms are also the pillars of civil society is undeniable, and could be construed as a plausible asset to religious thinking. Unfortunately, the VERY basic paradigm of all theistic religions is that a particular god or gods exist, and want to be worshipped. Since they all disagree horribly on the nature of that god, and it's name, characteristics, origins and motives, there is no possibility of all of them being true. The reverse, however is quite likely: That none of them are. Since all such religions call for the death of the unbeliever, or, worse, eternal condemnation to endless torture for the sin of using the brain that supposedly was given by the gods, one has to examine the motives of the authors. That's a mixed bag, but the basal paradigm in all of them was that the leaders of the religions be given ultimate authority over the populace because "god said so" and that is not to be questioned. This meme has been outlandishly successful, allowing kings and other brigands to lead thousands to their deaths on the field of battle. It has been said that more men have died in the name of god than from any other cause. It's not true, but it's not far from it. At root, all wars are economic, but without some emotional cause to rally the masses, they won't occur. That religion is such an easy one to push into our (still primitive) emotional mind is a very serious argument AGAINST the utility of extant relgions if the goal is to make better human beings. Another of those oft repeated but false memes is that there are no atheists in foxholes. Again, it's untrue, but the people saying it are universally religious, and just as universally, are not thinking. If saying that being a paid killer requires relgion is considered to be an asset, then do you really think someone seeking peaceable coexistence would consider your religion meritorious?

I could go on for hours on this. But I simply have better things to do. It was all-consuming for more than ten years of my life. As I approach my 47th birthday, I find that while it still has the power to piss me off, I simply cannot devote the time and resources to bashing the idiocy of religion that I once could. In my own life, suffice it to say that becoming an atheist, while difficult due to the systematic brainwashing inherent in being raised religious, has been among the very best decisions I ever made. It has allowed me to pursue things that have actually benefitted me, it has allowed me to understand that being who I am is not egregious in itself, that violent thoughts are not immoral, only violent actions, and really a large number of other assets. Turning my back on religion has quantifiably improved my life in ways that I cannot enumerate without taking up reams of paper or pages of forum space. I no longer wake up feeling I'm cursed because I'm different from those around me. I no longer envy the lives of the clergy, as I got everything I have honestly. If I ever do drive a luxury automobile or live in a grand house, I will have earned it, not guilted a bunch of poor bastards into giving me what they earned for no return. Unlike when I was a Christian, I can face the man in the mirror without him condemning me, unless I've actually done something wrong. I also no longer have to wonder why it's considered ok for people to do horrible things as long as an innocent is punished (another pillar of your religion). I now understand it fully. It's a trick. It always was. When you give your autonomy to another, you give up much MUCH more than you can imagine. While I do not believe in an immortal soul, the concept is useful metaphorically. Mine is not for sale, and the rent is very high. You, and others who believe these things, have given yours away for free, and the only return you will ever get from it if you TRULY believe, is a warm fuzzy feeling as your Clergy, who are atheist to the core, sell you down the river.

I have, by the way, employed several deliberate logical fallacies in the above. For the most part, it conforms to logic. If you can identify them, you will be far more enlightened in your limited view than you were an hour ago. Regardless of your faith.

I want to thank you for telling me that you were once a Christian minister. It saves a lot of time. Here's what I mean.

Perhaps you remember Hebrews 6:4-6. If you don't, you certainly know how to look it up if you want. A modern English version says it this way:
Quote
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
If you truly had been a believer back when you were a Christian, you may as well be happy, now, for the short time of life that remains for you.

It saves me the trouble of answering your writing. I know it won't do you any good since you can't be brought back at this stage. I can go on to better things.

And thank you for, as you said it, employing several logical fallacies in the above. This way anybody else who reads your stuff will realize that you were not expressing things clearly, as they might have been expressed. This way, other folks have a chance to keep from simply sucking in your garbage, because of the simple fact that you have told them that some of it is not logical.

It would have been fun, however, to tear it apart. But like you, I have better things to do.

Smiley

It was fun, and I do indeed know the scripture.

You just employed, much less subtly, the same logical fallacy I did. Ad-hominem. I did it to see if you were paying attention, and left the final remark to see if you'd call me on it. My reasoning was neither murky nor illogical, but in a couple of places it was hard to quantify. I used an appeal to popularity (from your side of the argument), again, to see if you were paying attention. That was the extent of it.

As for "crucifying Christ all over again", I'd have not crucified him (had he existed) in the first place. The words attributed to him in the gospels damn all of Christianity from that point on. If I were to choose one of the founding fathers of Christianity to crucify, or better, flay and impale, it would be Paul/Saul. the first man to say "what the captain meant was..." and then twist it into something unrecognizable.

As to your attempt at damning me...

Again, you have to convince a person of the TRUTH of what you say before you can threaten them with it's consequences. I fear neither hellfire nor angels with swords for tongues. It's no more real to me than Zeus's thunderbolts or Hermes' boots. To quote a band I like but do not love: "I reject all the biblical views of the truth, Dismiss it as the folklore of the times". In that context, it actually makes some sense. With Judaism falling apart and the nascent influence of Rome, it was going to be replaced by something. Even given the level of education in the law that was part of Judaism, most of the people of the time were uneducated and had little access to education. This made them excellent targets for a new take on an old theme. That Christianity was the one that took off is a bit surprising, as several other contenders were more human friendly, but it did indeed go down that way. Mostly, I think, due to the Emperor Constantine "converting" and establishing your current canon.

I certainly am not attempting to damn you. Jesus said that he was there to save people, not condemn them. The thing that would condemn people would be the words that Jesus spoke... on the last day. How much less any words that I might seem to speak for the damning of anybody?

Smiley
35750  Other / Politics & Society / Re: What happens when we approach a singularity of FAKE? on: September 25, 2015, 04:08:59 PM



Cool. Then the idea of a hologram universe is not possible if HISTORY is destroyed?

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/there-is-growing-evidence-that-our-universe-is-a-giant-hologram



This is really nonsense.  One needs to look at the way that dimensions are used in math and physics.  We can look at Sudoko games easily as an n-dimensional problem of sparse matrix, but we can't VERBALIZE it or think out the solution to the game that way.  to address your point, sure we can represent 3d information in 2d space.  We do it anytime we write things on a piece of paper.  Paper is 2d.

Trom the exact vibratory state of a group of atoms arguably one might step backwards to prior conditions of that group, hence "the current contains the past."  This would not be true after the reduction of atomic matter to plasma or subatomic particles.  The reasons should be obvious.  Are they?

Let's compare the whole universe with a real hologram... Why not  Smiley. When you have an hologram on a film, when you cut the film in half then in half then in half, this action does not destroy the hologram. Its "window" shrinks but you can still see it, understand it, even if the history of the hologram is on a 2D plastic film. if I take that hologram film inside a 1 000 000 000 K kiln then that history should be lost. Maybe the way History is destroyed (inside a supernova explosion, or ripped appart) could have an impact in its preservation?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8OEiTe8_Dc



Does not the very existence of the concept "quantum uncertainty" imply that whatever process (temperature for example) increasing the frequency of QU events per unit mass implies history loss.

Note "information" is different, and it is used in a very specific sense in these discussions.  "History" is a time based phenomena, and time is utterly fucked inside a black hole. 

History is gone inside a black hole. So should information?

Are we still talking about the singularity of FAKE?

 Cheesy



If quantum states and steps cease to exist, clearly information ceases to exist.  I think the main argument is whether information counts may be preserved OUTSIDE the black hole.  If not then net universe information would over time shrink.  But that gets back to the thermodynamics laws, conservation.

Actually, quantum states do not exist. There is no probability. Everything operates by cause and effect.

However, the imagination of mankind is really marvelous in that it can attach itself to "higher" dimensions in unrecognizable ways, enough so that mankind can think up quantum-like things with relation to the more basic dimensions, so that it looks like quantum exists.

Smiley
35751  Other / Politics & Society / Re: [Vote] Who did 911? on: September 25, 2015, 04:04:08 PM
Many website links have been posted in previous pages of this thread that have information in them that shows why and how the official story is bunk. The info from those website pages could be posted directly, evermore filling up the servers that host Bitcointalk. But, what would be the use? You would simply say that it wasn't true, anyway.


Smiley
Each and every time I have examined one of your links and applied high school level science to it, the claims were demonstrated to be false.

Your links can't even get a passing grade in high school.

Let's get real here.

Getting real is the whole idea. Some of those high school students just might go on to college for construction and/or demolition training. Let's hope they learn a little more than they learned in high school before they go on to building buildings or taking them down.

Smiley
No ducking and dodging.  You are WELCOME to present the very best arguments for conspiracy theories of 911.  And I have committed to attempt to destroy them using ONLY high school science.

So far we are batting about 23 Spendulus, 0 Baddecker.

Well, thanks for saying this, finally. Wished that I had seen it earlier if you had said it, or, if you didn't, that you had.

No reason to continue, because high school science isn't generally complex enough to apply to 9/11. Oh sure, individual pieces of science might easily apply. But the complexity of combining many aspects of several sciences simply doesn't, because it isn't taught in high school.

High school kids might get a kick out of trying to apply their knowledge of science in the complexity of ways that fit the 9/11 questions. But for us? Easy way out for both of us, right?

Smiley

EDIT: Are you finally admitting that you know 9/11 was an inside job?
35752  Other / Politics & Society / Re: What happens when we approach a singularity of FAKE? on: September 25, 2015, 03:23:11 PM



Cool. Then the idea of a hologram universe is not possible if HISTORY is destroyed?

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/there-is-growing-evidence-that-our-universe-is-a-giant-hologram



This is really nonsense.  One needs to look at the way that dimensions are used in math and physics.  We can look at Sudoko games easily as an n-dimensional problem of sparse matrix, but we can't VERBALIZE it or think out the solution to the game that way.  to address your point, sure we can represent 3d information in 2d space.  We do it anytime we write things on a piece of paper.  Paper is 2d.

Trom the exact vibratory state of a group of atoms arguably one might step backwards to prior conditions of that group, hence "the current contains the past."  This would not be true after the reduction of atomic matter to plasma or subatomic particles.  The reasons should be obvious.  Are they?

The simple reason is that our knowledge of physics and the dimensions is so extremely limited. If we had full knowledge of it all, there would be no loss of history whatsoever, right?

Smiley
35753  Other / Politics & Society / Re: [Vote] Who did 911? on: September 25, 2015, 03:19:47 PM
Many website links have been posted in previous pages of this thread that have information in them that shows why and how the official story is bunk. The info from those website pages could be posted directly, evermore filling up the servers that host Bitcointalk. But, what would be the use? You would simply say that it wasn't true, anyway.


Smiley
Each and every time I have examined one of your links and applied high school level science to it, the claims were demonstrated to be false.

Your links can't even get a passing grade in high school.

Let's get real here.

Getting real is the whole idea. Some of those high school students just might go on to college for construction and/or demolition training. Let's hope they learn a little more than they learned in high school before they go on to building buildings or taking them down.

Smiley
35754  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do people hate islam? on: September 25, 2015, 03:13:57 PM

I'm gonna provide you a link so you understand why your answer is a strawman. But first, I would ask that you re-read the question, and answer it as stated, rather than putting on the Christian lens and ignoring the question.

so, again. If there is a god, it is all powerful, and it wishes to be worshipped, how many religions could their possibly be?

The link following is something I constantly refer to myself. Debate and logic have a specific structure for a reason. Logical fallacies when committed by accident or habit obscure the truth. When committed deliberately, one has to wonder what the true motives of the person committing them are.
http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html


Regarding your link, thanks. But I am not interested in being trained into the limited logic of somebody else. I'll stick to my own limited logic.

If you want REAL logic, fill yourself on the Word of God, the Bible, and there's a good chance you'll wake up.

Smiley

I was once a Christian minister, so you are the one who should check your assumptions. I deliberately do not capitalise 'god', as I find the concept to be... English hasn't the words for the depravity.

With every passing hour, we know more and more about the universe we live in. With each new discovery, the Christian paradigm has less place as anything but a reference for morality. And a rather poor one, since it openly advocates the death of billions.
Training in formal logic allows you a wider understanding of the world, not a limiting one. Without a framework to ask the requisite questions, one has to make assumptions based solely on emotion or unquantifiable data, which will always lead to error. It allows you to not assume, for instance, that the person you are debating has no knowledge of your axioms. A good example is this very discussion. You are proceeding from the axiom that god exists, and is active in the lives of believers. I hold no such belief, and therefore am challenging that axiom. In order for a man such as yourself to have any effect on my way of thinking, you must FIRST establish an axiom that we can agree on. Failing in this, further statements cannot be considered axiomatic.

I do not believe in any gods. You believe in three, most likely. (not all of Christendom is trinitarian). If you're not a trinitarian, you believe in still one more god than I do. The words of bronze age zealots without corroboration or evidence fail utterly to sway me, and probably any person who has a grasp of logic and is NOT raised as a theist. Those, like me, who were raised to believe and then spent a decade trying to make it fit reality, we will be almost impossible to sway to mythical thinking. You'd have to PROVE a thing that, by your axioms, is unprovable and should not be questioned. I, on the other hand, operate from the very basic axiom that a thing that cannot withstand scrutiny is false, and it's derivative corollary that a thing that cannot be proven, while worthy of discussion, should be given little weight.

In my pursuit of religion (initially with the goal of proving it true) I have found almost no difference in the basal paradigms of all of them. That these basal paradigms are also the pillars of civil society is undeniable, and could be construed as a plausible asset to religious thinking. Unfortunately, the VERY basic paradigm of all theistic religions is that a particular god or gods exist, and want to be worshipped. Since they all disagree horribly on the nature of that god, and it's name, characteristics, origins and motives, there is no possibility of all of them being true. The reverse, however is quite likely: That none of them are. Since all such religions call for the death of the unbeliever, or, worse, eternal condemnation to endless torture for the sin of using the brain that supposedly was given by the gods, one has to examine the motives of the authors. That's a mixed bag, but the basal paradigm in all of them was that the leaders of the religions be given ultimate authority over the populace because "god said so" and that is not to be questioned. This meme has been outlandishly successful, allowing kings and other brigands to lead thousands to their deaths on the field of battle. It has been said that more men have died in the name of god than from any other cause. It's not true, but it's not far from it. At root, all wars are economic, but without some emotional cause to rally the masses, they won't occur. That religion is such an easy one to push into our (still primitive) emotional mind is a very serious argument AGAINST the utility of extant relgions if the goal is to make better human beings. Another of those oft repeated but false memes is that there are no atheists in foxholes. Again, it's untrue, but the people saying it are universally religious, and just as universally, are not thinking. If saying that being a paid killer requires relgion is considered to be an asset, then do you really think someone seeking peaceable coexistence would consider your religion meritorious?

I could go on for hours on this. But I simply have better things to do. It was all-consuming for more than ten years of my life. As I approach my 47th birthday, I find that while it still has the power to piss me off, I simply cannot devote the time and resources to bashing the idiocy of religion that I once could. In my own life, suffice it to say that becoming an atheist, while difficult due to the systematic brainwashing inherent in being raised religious, has been among the very best decisions I ever made. It has allowed me to pursue things that have actually benefitted me, it has allowed me to understand that being who I am is not egregious in itself, that violent thoughts are not immoral, only violent actions, and really a large number of other assets. Turning my back on religion has quantifiably improved my life in ways that I cannot enumerate without taking up reams of paper or pages of forum space. I no longer wake up feeling I'm cursed because I'm different from those around me. I no longer envy the lives of the clergy, as I got everything I have honestly. If I ever do drive a luxury automobile or live in a grand house, I will have earned it, not guilted a bunch of poor bastards into giving me what they earned for no return. Unlike when I was a Christian, I can face the man in the mirror without him condemning me, unless I've actually done something wrong. I also no longer have to wonder why it's considered ok for people to do horrible things as long as an innocent is punished (another pillar of your religion). I now understand it fully. It's a trick. It always was. When you give your autonomy to another, you give up much MUCH more than you can imagine. While I do not believe in an immortal soul, the concept is useful metaphorically. Mine is not for sale, and the rent is very high. You, and others who believe these things, have given yours away for free, and the only return you will ever get from it if you TRULY believe, is a warm fuzzy feeling as your Clergy, who are atheist to the core, sell you down the river.

I have, by the way, employed several deliberate logical fallacies in the above. For the most part, it conforms to logic. If you can identify them, you will be far more enlightened in your limited view than you were an hour ago. Regardless of your faith.

I want to thank you for telling me that you were once a Christian minister. It saves a lot of time. Here's what I mean.

Perhaps you remember Hebrews 6:4-6. If you don't, you certainly know how to look it up if you want. A modern English version says it this way:
Quote
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
If you truly had been a believer back when you were a Christian, you may as well be happy, now, for the short time of life that remains for you.

It saves me the trouble of answering your writing. I know it won't do you any good since you can't be brought back at this stage. I can go on to better things.

And thank you for, as you said it, employing several logical fallacies in the above. This way anybody else who reads your stuff will realize that you were not expressing things clearly, as they might have been expressed. This way, other folks have a chance to keep from simply sucking in your garbage, because of the simple fact that you have told them that some of it is not logical.

It would have been fun, however, to tear it apart. But like you, I have better things to do.

Smiley
35755  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do people hate islam? on: September 25, 2015, 12:19:42 PM

I'm gonna provide you a link so you understand why your answer is a strawman. But first, I would ask that you re-read the question, and answer it as stated, rather than putting on the Christian lens and ignoring the question.

so, again. If there is a god, it is all powerful, and it wishes to be worshipped, how many religions could their possibly be?

The link following is something I constantly refer to myself. Debate and logic have a specific structure for a reason. Logical fallacies when committed by accident or habit obscure the truth. When committed deliberately, one has to wonder what the true motives of the person committing them are.
http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html


Regarding your link, thanks. But I am not interested in being trained into the limited logic of somebody else. I'll stick to my own limited logic.

If you want REAL logic, fill yourself on the Word of God, the Bible, and there's a good chance you'll wake up.

Smiley
35756  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do people hate islam? on: September 25, 2015, 12:12:11 PM
Quote from: BADecker
If you dropped formal religion, including Christianity, out of life, what would you get? You would get the same things that you get with the formal religions, except God and guidance. Essentially, there would be a whole lot more corruption, a whole lot more warring, a whole lot more "badness" among people.

I strongly disagree. In those nations where religion holds less sway, we see LESS of the above. See Sweden for a good example. Of course the argument could be made that socialism is itself a formal religion, but you are specifically referring to Christianity and to a lesser extent, other theistic religions.
Quote

People who do bad things will use whatever methods they can to do bad things. They will take as much good as they can, and twist it to their own ways, to make it bad. Without the good of the formal religions, things would be a lot worse. If you think that people couldn't or wouldn't design bad things without formal religion, you are extremely naive.

On the contrary, in a rational world bad people do bad things and good people do good things. (I'll get into "good" and "evil" in a moment). With the backing of religion, good people do bad things, and often with a clear conscience. For a number of good examples from within your book, just read the book of Exodus. Granted, most of it is false, like zero evidence that the Hebrews were ever slaves in egypt for instance, but it openly condones putting entire populations to the sword in the name of "The LORD of HOSTS" if you like the KJV, or more correctly translated The God of Armies or Jehovah (medieval latin) or Yahwey as most modern scholars believe the name to be properly pronounced. One of the things commanded by your god was the dashing of babies against the rocks. And do not give me the "sins of the father" argument, because there is NO moral or ethical way to justify it. Which is pretty bad for your religion, because it's the crux of your beliefs. (see what I did there? Crux is short for Crucifix).
Quote

Religion offers guidance towards goodness. Even a formally semi-violent religion like Islam offers guidance towards goodness in this life. Think of how bad it would be without religion.

This is a tamer version of what Christians often say to atheists. It scares the shit out of me. Because what you're really saying is that without some religion going on, then people IN GENERAL are going to run rampant, murdering, raping, stealing, and generally being assholes. This tells us a LOT about the religious mindset. Luckily, we have all of history to prove it untrue. If humans were inherently evil, using the term the way religious people do, then no such books would be written, and given that none of the thousands of gods does a fucking thing, even if they were no one would care. Our species would not have survived. For the most part, we do not need to be told that it's wrong to attack and kill our fellow men and women. Crime is actually a pretty low percentage of human activity, once you take away statutory crime. (that's a discussion for another time). And as one would expect without the religious mindset, the worst crimes are the least common. A guy might not think twice about grabbing a loaf of bread, but will think a lot harder about assault or murder, even if he's deviant.

The truth, clearly observable if you have ANY grasp of reality and the ability to think, is that people are generally pretty neutral. We're a social species, so we work out ways to interact with each other. We also are pack animals, so we tend to make codes, such as religion, that make the "outsider" somehow less than human. That is just as egregious as theism, but it's at least something we can recognize and mitigate IN THE ABSENCE of religion. Within the framework of religion, the "other" will always be subhuman. It is not an accident that secularization of the world led to the largest population of humans ever. Civilized men rarely kill because of "god" anymore, with a few glaring exceptions. Unfortunately, those glaring exceptions are good at getting themselves into positions of power (which is a big part of why I'm an anarchist as well as an atheist).
Quote
More important, even if there were no badness along with no formal religion, that is, even if people were not mean and bad, period, they would still get old and die. Old age and death seem to be built into the "genetics" of nature. Why do I mention this? Because old age isn't something that is nice and good. It is wicked and evil. It leads to death, and eternal death which includes agony of soul forever.

Religion stands firmly in the way of mitigating death by providing the obvious fairy tale you present below. There is just about zero evidence that anything "survives" death except energy, which is never destroyed. There is a whole lot of evidence that we could extend life indefinitely via technologies that Christians oppose on "principle" because it's "playing god". Well, I for one ain't playing. At base, god means creator, and we are the most creative species we are aware of. In fact, even when I was religious, that bothered me. If we're made in god's image, as Christians and Jews presuppose, then why do Christians stand so heavily AGAINST being creative? (again, this is something of a deviation from the discussion, but something you ought to think about)

The pursuit of immortality predates Christianity by a rather large number of millenia. The ability to pursue it by technical means is just now falling into place, but a lot of that research has been very vocally opposed by Christians. For examples of the works, I suggest you google the methuselah mouse prize, SENS, and Dr. Aubrey DeGrey. It's beyond the scope of this discussion. I've been heavily involved in it for several decades now.
Quote
At least the Christian religion shows us the way out of death which would not be known without the formal Christian religion. Without the Bible it would almost be absolutely, formally unknown.

The point? Without the Bible, the way out of death to a joyous life in Heaven would be missed by almost all people. In addition, life and living conditions on earth would be worse. Now, at least, there will be some millions or billions in Heaven.


Utterly false. Every religion that I am aware of deals with "what happens after death" and they all disagree.

Now let me provide a little conundrum for you. Take away all the other contradictions and hypocrisy surrounding all religion and ask yourself this:

Based on the ideation that all theistic religions claim two things:

1. There is an all powerful god that has made or set in motion the entirety of our universe and
2. This god wishes to be worshipped.

The question is, if the above were true, how many religions would exist?

Well, I don't agree with you.

In your final question, all you need do is look and see how many religions DO exist, to tell how many religions would exist. Any Being that has the ability to make the entirety of our universe, is a Being that we don't have a clue as to His/Its thinking and rational except that He/It tells us. Yet, He/It has complete understanding of ours.

This God wishes to be worshiped for our own good. Consider that such things as honor and dignity have been made by Him, right along with everything else. The only way to maintain our own honor and dignity is to use it to honor and dignify Him, since He OWNS everything. It is this lack of honoring and dignifying the Great Creator that is one of the greatest methods that we are using to cause our own destruction.

Smiley

I'm gonna provide you a link so you understand why your answer is a strawman. But first, I would ask that you re-read the question, and answer it as stated, rather than putting on the Christian lens and ignoring the question.

so, again. If there is a god, it is all powerful, and it wishes to be worshipped, how many religions could their possibly be?

The link following is something I constantly refer to myself. Debate and logic have a specific structure for a reason. Logical fallacies when committed by accident or habit obscure the truth. When committed deliberately, one has to wonder what the true motives of the person committing them are.
http://www.csun.edu/~dgw61315/fallacies.html


The simple answer to your question is 1 religion, to as many religions as there are people that exist.

We have just barely begun to understand how the earth works, to say nothing of the rest of the universe. So, how could we even begin to understand what the thinking or logic of an all powerful God might be, especially regarding how He wants to be worshiped? Note that I capitalized the word "God" and pronouns referring to Him. "All powerful" makes such capitalization an at least minimal honor I could do to One so great.

Smiley
35757  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Why do people hate islam? on: September 25, 2015, 11:48:41 AM
Quote from: BADecker
If you dropped formal religion, including Christianity, out of life, what would you get? You would get the same things that you get with the formal religions, except God and guidance. Essentially, there would be a whole lot more corruption, a whole lot more warring, a whole lot more "badness" among people.

I strongly disagree. In those nations where religion holds less sway, we see LESS of the above. See Sweden for a good example. Of course the argument could be made that socialism is itself a formal religion, but you are specifically referring to Christianity and to a lesser extent, other theistic religions.
Quote

People who do bad things will use whatever methods they can to do bad things. They will take as much good as they can, and twist it to their own ways, to make it bad. Without the good of the formal religions, things would be a lot worse. If you think that people couldn't or wouldn't design bad things without formal religion, you are extremely naive.

On the contrary, in a rational world bad people do bad things and good people do good things. (I'll get into "good" and "evil" in a moment). With the backing of religion, good people do bad things, and often with a clear conscience. For a number of good examples from within your book, just read the book of Exodus. Granted, most of it is false, like zero evidence that the Hebrews were ever slaves in egypt for instance, but it openly condones putting entire populations to the sword in the name of "The LORD of HOSTS" if you like the KJV, or more correctly translated The God of Armies or Jehovah (medieval latin) or Yahwey as most modern scholars believe the name to be properly pronounced. One of the things commanded by your god was the dashing of babies against the rocks. And do not give me the "sins of the father" argument, because there is NO moral or ethical way to justify it. Which is pretty bad for your religion, because it's the crux of your beliefs. (see what I did there? Crux is short for Crucifix).
Quote

Religion offers guidance towards goodness. Even a formally semi-violent religion like Islam offers guidance towards goodness in this life. Think of how bad it would be without religion.

This is a tamer version of what Christians often say to atheists. It scares the shit out of me. Because what you're really saying is that without some religion going on, then people IN GENERAL are going to run rampant, murdering, raping, stealing, and generally being assholes. This tells us a LOT about the religious mindset. Luckily, we have all of history to prove it untrue. If humans were inherently evil, using the term the way religious people do, then no such books would be written, and given that none of the thousands of gods does a fucking thing, even if they were no one would care. Our species would not have survived. For the most part, we do not need to be told that it's wrong to attack and kill our fellow men and women. Crime is actually a pretty low percentage of human activity, once you take away statutory crime. (that's a discussion for another time). And as one would expect without the religious mindset, the worst crimes are the least common. A guy might not think twice about grabbing a loaf of bread, but will think a lot harder about assault or murder, even if he's deviant.

The truth, clearly observable if you have ANY grasp of reality and the ability to think, is that people are generally pretty neutral. We're a social species, so we work out ways to interact with each other. We also are pack animals, so we tend to make codes, such as religion, that make the "outsider" somehow less than human. That is just as egregious as theism, but it's at least something we can recognize and mitigate IN THE ABSENCE of religion. Within the framework of religion, the "other" will always be subhuman. It is not an accident that secularization of the world led to the largest population of humans ever. Civilized men rarely kill because of "god" anymore, with a few glaring exceptions. Unfortunately, those glaring exceptions are good at getting themselves into positions of power (which is a big part of why I'm an anarchist as well as an atheist).
Quote
More important, even if there were no badness along with no formal religion, that is, even if people were not mean and bad, period, they would still get old and die. Old age and death seem to be built into the "genetics" of nature. Why do I mention this? Because old age isn't something that is nice and good. It is wicked and evil. It leads to death, and eternal death which includes agony of soul forever.

Religion stands firmly in the way of mitigating death by providing the obvious fairy tale you present below. There is just about zero evidence that anything "survives" death except energy, which is never destroyed. There is a whole lot of evidence that we could extend life indefinitely via technologies that Christians oppose on "principle" because it's "playing god". Well, I for one ain't playing. At base, god means creator, and we are the most creative species we are aware of. In fact, even when I was religious, that bothered me. If we're made in god's image, as Christians and Jews presuppose, then why do Christians stand so heavily AGAINST being creative? (again, this is something of a deviation from the discussion, but something you ought to think about)

The pursuit of immortality predates Christianity by a rather large number of millenia. The ability to pursue it by technical means is just now falling into place, but a lot of that research has been very vocally opposed by Christians. For examples of the works, I suggest you google the methuselah mouse prize, SENS, and Dr. Aubrey DeGrey. It's beyond the scope of this discussion. I've been heavily involved in it for several decades now.
Quote
At least the Christian religion shows us the way out of death which would not be known without the formal Christian religion. Without the Bible it would almost be absolutely, formally unknown.

The point? Without the Bible, the way out of death to a joyous life in Heaven would be missed by almost all people. In addition, life and living conditions on earth would be worse. Now, at least, there will be some millions or billions in Heaven.


Utterly false. Every religion that I am aware of deals with "what happens after death" and they all disagree.

Now let me provide a little conundrum for you. Take away all the other contradictions and hypocrisy surrounding all religion and ask yourself this:

Based on the ideation that all theistic religions claim two things:

1. There is an all powerful god that has made or set in motion the entirety of our universe and
2. This god wishes to be worshipped.

The question is, if the above were true, how many religions would exist?

Well, I don't agree with you.

In your final question, all you need do is look and see how many religions DO exist, to tell how many religions would exist. Any Being that has the ability to make the entirety of our universe, is a Being that we don't have a clue as to His/Its thinking and rational except that He/It tells us. Yet, He/It has complete understanding of ours.

This God wishes to be worshiped for our own good. Consider that such things as honor and dignity have been made by Him, right along with everything else. The only way to maintain our own honor and dignity is to use it to honor and dignify Him, since He OWNS everything. It is this lack of honoring and dignifying the Great Creator that is one of the greatest methods that we are using to cause our own destruction.

Smiley
35758  Other / Politics & Society / Re: We talk, therefore we exist. on: September 25, 2015, 09:35:14 AM
Just filosofical, I imagine this like some caffe... I`m sitting, drinking coffe and smoke my cigarete. I imagine u do pretty the same, just someone drink juice, or water... beer or coctail. Well it`s like that for now, tomorow will be diffrent. We all spending time here, sometimes it`s good ( when we win some prizes) sometimes its not so good ( when we loose). Sometimes we just talk with people and reading post`s, listen music... I will stop with filosofy, i wish welcome to everyone. Sit, relax and take some drink and talk. With one word EXIST.

I'd say when we talk to each other only then we exist, when we talk to ourselves we are just pretending to be alive. We NEED somebody to talk to because we want to be alive. And that's great that sometimes we can find someone who will listen and who will talk to us. Thats one of the best things life can do to anyone.

That's why God made people. He doesn't really need them, you know. He has the angels. But He is very great, so He wants more ideas.

Smiley
35759  Other / Politics & Society / Re: Revelation Prophecies: Rapture? Comet Predictions? JADE HELM? CERN? on: September 25, 2015, 09:19:01 AM
Remember that the great deception may be there are aliens. Anything that is announced that leads people to believe in aliens, could be a part of the great deception. This may not even mention aliens, but if it talks about how life could be sustained on Mars, it still changes people's minds, makes them a little more open....


Video: NASA to Announce Mars Mystery Solved! Day After Super Blood Moon!

NASA to Announce Mars Mystery Solved

"(Nature Geoscience has Embargoed Details until 11 a.m. EDT Sept. 28)

NASA will detail a major science finding from the agency’s ongoing exploration of Mars during a news briefing at 11:30 a.m. EDT on Monday, Sept. 28 at the James Webb Auditorium at NASA Headquarters in Washington. The event will be broadcast live on NASA Television and the agency's website.

News conference participants will be:

·         Jim Green, director of planetary science at NASA Headquarters

·         Michael Meyer, lead scientist for the Mars Exploration Program at NASA Headquarters

·         Lujendra Ojha of the Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta

·         Mary Beth Wilhelm of NASA’s Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, California and the Georgia Institute of Technology

·         Alfred McEwen, principal investigator for the High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment (HiRISE) at the University of Arizona in Tucson

A brief question-and-answer session will take place during the event with reporters on site and by phone. Members of the public also can ask questions during the briefing using #AskNASA."


Are you suggesting that we, as humanity, should confine ourselves to this one rock for all of time?

Why spread the curse of mankind across the space-lanes? It is only the curse that makes us want to spread the curse. Let's keep our wars here until we learn to stop warring.

Consider the Per Square Mile website (http://persquaremile.com/2012/08/08/if-the-worlds-population-lived-like/). The lower half of the page shows how much land we would need on earth to house and support a population of 7 billion.

Notice that if all 7 billion lived like we do in the United States, it would take more than 4 times the current land area of the earth to house and support everybody. But if all 7 billion lived like they do in Bangladesh, it would only take a small fraction of the earth for all the people to be supported.

If we focused our technology on living rather than on warring, we could comfortably house billions more. But we would have to get off the garbage and waste trip that we are on in the more modernized countries.

Smiley
35760  Other / Politics & Society / Re: [Vote] Who did 911? on: September 25, 2015, 08:15:00 AM
....
Just trying to be a little more colorful. (chuckle)

Aren't we all a little tired of watching the government controlled planes run into the buildings?

Smiley
I think what's tiring is links that don't come anywhere close to proving the conspiracy theory.

Links that don't pass the High School Math, Chemistry and Physics test.

I agree. The government's own conspiracy theory....
Smiley
Let's see....The generally accepted 911 story does in fact pass high school Math, Chemistry and Physics tests.

Please come back and repost with alternatives that do pass these simple tests.

Well, perhaps it does... "pass high school Math, Chemistry and Physics tests."

But you forgot the most important high school part that it passes. It also passes high school application.

We aren't talking high school in the 9/11 betrayal. If we were, we wouldn't have all those professional mathematicians, chemists, and physics engineers professing how the government touted conspiracy theory is one of the worst among 9/11 conspiracy theories.

Smiley
Bah.  Logical error "appeal to experts."  You don't have such people.  You've got one guy - me - refuting every single argument you come up with.  Seems like regardless what wacko says this or that on youtube it takes about one minute to refute them.

The problem is that your "claims" are basically lies.

I've said...
....The generally accepted 911 story does in fact pass high school Math, Chemistry and Physics tests.

And I've ASKED you to...
Please come back and repost with alternatives that do pass these simple tests.

So either do it or shut up.  And no youtube links that don't even say what you claim they do, please.

LOL! No, don't appeal to the experts. Rather appeal to the high school kids. LOL!

Many website links have been posted in previous pages of this thread that have information in them that shows why and how the official story is bunk. The info from those website pages could be posted directly, evermore filling up the servers that host Bitcointalk. But, what would be the use? You would simply say that it wasn't true, anyway.

You are welcome to believe what you want, of course, and certainly not because I say so. But realize. You are turning your reality into a cult by keeping yourself blind to the facts.

Smiley
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