Source for Zefir's statement:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177827.msg3066627#msg3066627

That makes all group buys having requested and received refunds, except this one. This one is just dead silent.

Don't screw us, steamboat.

I think you're the one who needs to read the threads.

Zefir stated he has requested a refund in this post
SebastianJu stated he has requested a refund in this post. Moreover, in the same post he states he has received the BTC for 3 refund requests already. He also says the same here.

I'm not sure where you got your information from, but your points drawn from it are absolute nonsense.



The joke is that the real majority hasn't even been asked to take a stand on "refund" or "no refund" yet, due to steamboats failure to communicate. Yeah, tough shit.

+1 cardcomm. I think you might have worded it better than I did.

Here's the exact mail steamboat sent me:


This email was received approximately 20 hours ago. Draw your own conclusions.

It's because steamboat has not asked his customers for an opinion. A large part of the buyers does not check this thread regularly.

SebastianJu and Zefir tacked this by mailing the entire customer database, asking if they want to keep the chips or want a refund. steamboat could have done the same, just to gather the information on where we stand in this group-buy, but has chosen not to do so, for reasons unknown, but likely to do with his assembly service which will maybe turn out non-profitable by such descision.

The user-initiative of the refund google-docs is admirable, but only a fraction of the users have seen his post. If steamboat were to just mail the database, he'd get an instant picture of what the customer wants. Both SebastianJu and Zefir have confirmed that over half of their customers wanted a refund on the chips - over 30000 chips in each group buy, meaning a full 3 batches have had refund requests. It won't be much different in this group buy, other than that steamboat has failed to communicate with his customers individually about this matter - like Zefir and SebastianJu did.

Me discussing this topic here actively does not exactly prove me wrong :/ I'm not sure where you got that from.

Regarding your point 2, Yifu has already refunded 3 batches in full to SebastianJu, who was quick to act and safeguarded the funds for 3 orders. This is an opportunity that should not be missed.

As for 3, I'm not in for assembly. A lot of others aren't either. I'm not sure how you think the chip groupbuy and steamboats later added assembly services are inherently linked.

4 - have you ever seen the influence of investors in any other company? Yes, normally, they do have influence. Steamboat is misusing his leverage to make sure his assembly service keeps being profitable. You may call it whining, but I'm only voicing my concerns.

Finally 5, steamboat was quick with responses and updates (daily) when he was in the process of gathering our money. All was good then and steamboat was doing a good job - yet he dropped this service like a brick after he gathered all the funds. Does that sound familiar? Did Yifu not do the same? How about BFL?

Steamboat turned this groupbuy into his company, but the fact is that his assembly service is and should be detatched from the chip group buy.


I've said what I needed to say and I'll pursue further actions through other channels. You guys have fun with your endless faith in steamboat. I'll check back after this whole cherade has turned into a disaster.


Edit// also, if you don't want me to reply to you, just ignore me. Not that hard.

Oh really? I've seen more refund requests than 'i want my chips' requests since 29th of August. But apparently you know more  

Let me edit that for you:


He's sitting on our money as we speak. Even if it's a 'national holiday', when you're responsible for hundreds of thousands of dollars that could be safeguarded by jumping on Yifu's refunds ASAP, you've got an obligation to your investors to do so. I don't give a shit about his holiday. If he gives me full access to the entire operation, i'd more than happily get the refunds sorted ASAP. I'd be working 24/7 for the next few days to make sure everyone has voiced their wishes, and get the refunds going from Yifu. I'd give John K. all my details and proof of residence as a safety. Seriously, I'm not joking. Steamboat, give me access to all your accounts, and I'd sort this for you free of charge.

The problem is, that steamboat holds all the power over our money. You can't just casually walk away from that under the pretence of a "national holiday".


Except it does matter. The apparent deadline for the refunds is this Wednesday, and steamboat has taken no action to arrange any refunds. Does that not worry you? Are you even involved in the group buy?


Eh, over 50% of this group buy has nothing, absolutely NOTHING to do with his assembly service. His assembly service is a separate venue. That he put his profits into that, is his business, not mine, not any of those who are not involved in the assembly line.

I'm not having faith in someone who lacks basic communications towards their customers. I hope he's negotiating with Yifu as we speak, but his remark of "we do not accept refunds atm" bears me great worries. If anything, it tells me he's not even working on refunds at all - the fact that he's not gathering any information on who does and doesn't want a refund supports this assumption.

Also, the money of our chips didn't go to his assembly service - the profits he took from us did. He can get all our chip money back through Yifu, yet he's apparently not prepared to do so.

Also, ad hominem by insinuating I need meds does not strenghten your argument at all.

If you want to add to the discussion, at least tell me how I'm wrong then. If you even can.

He's got our money. He's got his 50K USD profits. He's not providing services for it, while all the other group buy organizers ARE. Hell yes, it's getting personal. We're not talking about a few hundred bucks. We're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars, of which several thousand mine. The only one going unprofessional is steamboat, with the increasing amount of time between his posts, and the ongoing stalling from his side.

No he's not, he replied to one of my mails basically telling me to shut my mouth, and he's online here all the time. In fact he's online right now. There's no excuses. He got 50K USD from us to provice service in this groupbuy, fuck his 'vacation'. When there's a lot of time pressure (this wednesday Yifu is likely going to send the batches that didn't ask for a refund), and you have chosen to take on a task like this, you better be god damn ready to actually provide your customers with a basic level of customer service.

This includes him safeguarding the god damn refunds before it's too late.

It's not FUD if it's the truth. The 29th update is obsolete, as Yifu has since posted stating refunds are accepted now. He is communicating with group buy organizers. The only one not communicating in this ordeal at this moment, is steamboat himself. Yifu, SebastianJu and Zefir have posted more in the past few days than steamboat has done in the last three weeks. Give that some thought.

He's keeping quiet in the hopes he can deliver his mining units for more profit. It seems like he's going to try and profit from this still. Mark my words, he's going to wait until after this Wednesday.


Is it?! SebastianJu set things in motion the same day and is processing refunds. Zefir set things in motion the same day and is processing refunds. Steamboat is quiet for almost 4 days now, and is refusing to process refunds. Hell, he's not making an inventory of who wants a refund and who doesnt.

It's scary as hell. He's likely safeguarding his profits, safeguarding his assembly service. He has mixed interests, we will end up as the ones taking the fall for him due to his lack of action, communication and detatchment of his assembly service.

I've messaged him yesterday in a little more pressing way (the signed message  I posted here as well) and it goes to show, that just as with Yifu, pressuring him makes him reply way sooner. It's a bad sign IMO, but I got a response within 24 hours, with him basically saying "no refunds". Unacceptable.

Any boards produced by anyone will not ROI in BTC value. Not by a long shot.

The whole USD-now-USD-then ROI story is bullshit. You paid in BTC. You're going to end up with less BTC. Therefore you do not return your BTC investment.

I think steamboat has mixed interests in this case, as I assume he doesn't want to refund the boards he's building. If he's going to be as bold to wait until after wednesday, and let way late chips arrive, so he can build his boards and make more profit, well darn, I think I'm going to come after him with pitchforks like we did with Yifu. I have nothing to do with his assembly service. The chips won't ROI, Yifu is making refunds, all other groupbuys have already gotten their batches refunded yet steamboats is YET AGAIN sitting on his ass waiting for the best outcome for him, while the wednesday deadline is coming so close that it's going to be practically impossible to get all customers to make a stand on "refund yes/no" before then.

SebastianJu and Zefir started way back inventoring which customers wanted refunds and which wanted to keep the chips. But steamboat, oh well, just says again "hurr we'll wait some more, no refunds, soz", while he could have also just contacted all customers and ask them to take a stand, so he can get refunds on the batches while it's still possible.

But no, steamboat did nothing, and now doesn't know what customers want refunds and which ones don't, he doesn't keep us up-to-date in these pressured times and, well, frankly, with a 18 BTC investment I'm just not okay with that.

Seriously i suspect he is waiting for those early batches to ship anyway (even though >90% doesn't want them) so he can finish his assembly business and make some more profit. I hope I'm wrong, but well, if steamboat doesn't inform us about what the hell he's actually doing, we're going to start assuming.

Steamboat, request refunds for the batches you can still get a refund on, ASAP. Then make an inventory on who wants a refund.

"We are not accepting refund requests at this time", well shit it appears I have some bad luck and chose the worst group-buy organizator of all of them.

Dear steamboat, the deadline to get a refund is wednesday. Get a move on. You have some nerve to request a show of courtesy and respect while you can't be bothered to update us maybe twice a week in a time where it matters a lot to be on time with refund requests. You need to step up when tight deadlines are on the table, as SebastianJu and Zefir already noticed that this Wednesday is a deadline for Yifu is receiving chips then. Take them as an example please.

Also fuck it I'm posting this everywhere. Mail, pm, and in topic.


Signature: H2O83KjdUMfydDQwOo9iQmAQoil43/qDVcEi/Nt/xM7/Zt8t1LE88vq6+k24IYAXR8mvr3/pMF4fxlwIJ1eE/iM=

The lack of updates from steamboat astonishes me. Look at Zefir, look at SebastianJu. They're active to get this thing sorted out _right now_, and securing significant amounts of bitcoins in the process. For all we know, steamboat, you're doing fuck all. You need to keep us updated on what you're doing and on how we can request refunds from you.

Steamboat, you need to get the refunds going for the eligible batches. You know Yifu is not going to send the late batches, but is only going to try and fill the late orders.

Boxman90, 219, batch 4.

TX ID: 8d5c000d91b22e3a3ae65373b57ea8196a15274c7e8a0d783cf32d6342dbb8bc

Those who just purchased chips, have nothing to do with steamboats standalone assembly service.

I'd like a full refund on my 219 batch 4 chips. Thanks.

Hey I didn't pre-order any boards. I'm just saying there's some entrepeneural risk involved at burnins side as well.

I hate to break it to you, but him developing and building a board, is not charity. Customers paid, so it is just regular old business. There is absolutely no need to 'look after' the person you made a business deal with.

As much as I sympathise with the board builders, burnin took his own risk in developing a board for Avalon chips, and taking pre-orders dependant on pre-ordered hardware. It is not right that all this risk is fully offloaded to his customer base, and I'm quite sure what he offers is unlawful in the EU. You can't deliver nothing and still take a part of the money for yourself (be it in fiat or electrical components). I am quite (90%) sure that falls under the label entrepreneurial risk, at least here in the EU.

Sensible idea. Make it a group-refund. Refund batch 6, everyone who wants out gives their spot in earlier batches to people from batch 6 who wanted to stay in.

Either way, steamboat, with all this action you better clarify what you're about to do ASAP. I'd say big update with what you will and won't do within at most the next 24 hours.