Liquid Synergy Designs Inc. -ASIC mining hardware

[ionstorm]

Seriously, I hope to god there isn't enough refund requests to have a forced batch 1-6 refund, I'd be hella pissed.  I'm in batch 1 & 2, I see better than roi currently with 20-30million per month difficulty increases.  I want my miners. 

Also I got a question for steamboat and others about self hosting vs hosted services.  Would it be smarter at this point to change to hosting if my electricity is .14/kWh? 

[jasinlee]

Seriously, I hope to god there isn't enough refund requests to have a forced batch 1-6 refund, I'd be hella pissed.  I'm in batch 1 & 2, I see better than roi currently with 20-30million per month difficulty increases.  I want my miners. 

Also I got a question for steamboat and others about self hosting vs hosted services.  Would it be smarter at this point to change to hosting if my electricity is .14/kWh? 

Doubt it. Maybe if you were under 0.08.

[chsados]

I figure I've waited this long, and with the recent increase in price of BTC, ROI is looking better already.

To properly analyze ROI you should not think in dollars but in btc.

[bobsag3]

Seriously, I hope to god there isn't enough refund requests to have a forced batch 1-6 refund, I'd be hella pissed.  I'm in batch 1 & 2, I see better than roi currently with 20-30million per month difficulty increases.  I want my miners. 

Also I got a question for steamboat and others about self hosting vs hosted services.  Would it be smarter at this point to change to hosting if my electricity is .14/kWh? 

Im doing official hosting @ .041

[organofcorti]

I figure I've waited this long, and with the recent increase in price of BTC, ROI is looking better already.

To properly analyze ROI you should not think in dollars but in btc.

You have to be able to include the btc exchange rate - electricity costs are not denominated in btc.

[ScaryHash]

At $140-ish/btc, my breakeven time, calculated starting at 75 mil diff and climbing 33% per month just went down from 10 weeks to 9 weeks.

Change the $$/btc exchange rate and the breakeven time changes.

BTC actually equals real money, because I had to buy BTC to buy the chips, and when I bought them, BTC was $90-100 each. So, actually the exchange rate does matter.

So, while not exactly tickled pink at the chip delay, I think the miners are still worth it. At least Avalon is shipping, maybe late, but you'd take this kind of change with any other asic as well.

If somebody promises October shipping, chances are it will be November if you're lucky. What who knows what the difficulty will be then??

Steamboat's batch 1 was ordered May first. Yeah, it would have been nice to have it end of july/beginning of august, but realistically, I think if we get chips by the Sept 7-10th, it aint gonna be the end of the world, despite all the refund requests.

Hell, I'm still waiting for my BFL stuff...even late, Avalon will beat that.

[Boxman90]

We are working on the refund situation and will update the thread when we have more information. We are not accepting refund requests at this time. Please show courtesy and respect when posting in our thread, messaging, or emailing us.

"We are not accepting refund requests at this time", well shit it appears I have some bad luck and chose the worst group-buy organizator of all of them.

Dear steamboat, the deadline to get a refund is wednesday. Get a move on. You have some nerve to request a show of courtesy and respect while you can't be bothered to update us maybe twice a week in a time where it matters a lot to be on time with refund requests. You need to step up when tight deadlines are on the table, as SebastianJu and Zefir already noticed that this Wednesday is a deadline for Yifu is receiving chips then. Take them as an example please.

[driksson]

We are working on the refund situation and will update the thread when we have more information. We are not accepting refund requests at this time. Please show courtesy and respect when posting in our thread, messaging, or emailing us.

"We are not accepting refund requests at this time", well shit it appears I have some bad luck and chose the worst group-buy organizator of all of them.

Dear steamboat, the deadline to get a refund is wednesday. Get a move on. You have some nerve to request a show of courtesy and respect while you can't be bothered to update us maybe twice a week in a time where it matters a lot to be on time with refund requests. You need to step up when tight deadlines are on the table, as SebastianJu and Zefir already noticed that this Wednesday is a deadline for Yifu is receiving chips then. Take them as an example please.

Oh snap, i really hope he's already done at least 50% refund requests without telling us if Wednesday is the deadline.
sadly SteamBoat holds my biggest purchase. And asked for refund on the day Yifu published it.

[alfabitcoin]

If yifu ship chips fast and Steve assamble boards and start to delivery 3 days after chip recipient, boards has still good value. Again, I would like to know klondike preformance when overlocked.
ROI in usd with btc price increse is justification and hope only to those who purchased as they have nothing else to hope to. Others who thinking about making investment should consider ROI dominated in bitcoins.
IMO its still not dissaster for both of us buyers and Steve and his business. Iam sure he want to stay in business for long time and to offer mining device in the future.


edit
Still, SB need to update us asap. He has set up deadline for assambly service to end of june where majority of us has ordered board assambly. That is full month prior batch 1 chip schedule to arrive and justified that he need to order BOM and PCB. All other assmbly providers already offered full refund for assambly (SB 60$) portion of cost and full refund for shipping cost as this is not taken place and SMT line can not be prepaid for work what is not done. He should had do some reassasment when first delay occured and restimate what to order and what to wait. But that part is SB responsibility and does not have anything with us - his buyers. Stemaboat can not mitigate all the risk on buyers and denie refund for assambly (60$ per board) of monies he got 2 month ago. It would mean he get paid and give nothing in return - its wrong, its illegal.

[Boxman90]

Any boards produced by anyone will not ROI in BTC value. Not by a long shot.

The whole USD-now-USD-then ROI story is bullshit. You paid in BTC. You're going to end up with less BTC. Therefore you do not return your BTC investment.

I think steamboat has mixed interests in this case, as I assume he doesn't want to refund the boards he's building. If he's going to be as bold to wait until after wednesday, and let way late chips arrive, so he can build his boards and make more profit, well darn, I think I'm going to come after him with pitchforks like we did with Yifu. I have nothing to do with his assembly service. The chips won't ROI, Yifu is making refunds, all other groupbuys have already gotten their batches refunded yet steamboats is YET AGAIN sitting on his ass waiting for the best outcome for him, while the wednesday deadline is coming so close that it's going to be practically impossible to get all customers to make a stand on "refund yes/no" before then.

SebastianJu and Zefir started way back inventoring which customers wanted refunds and which wanted to keep the chips. But steamboat, oh well, just says again "hurr we'll wait some more, no refunds, soz", while he could have also just contacted all customers and ask them to take a stand, so he can get refunds on the batches while it's still possible.

But no, steamboat did nothing, and now doesn't know what customers want refunds and which ones don't, he doesn't keep us up-to-date in these pressured times and, well, frankly, with a 18 BTC investment I'm just not okay with that.

Seriously i suspect he is waiting for those early batches to ship anyway (even though >90% doesn't want them) so he can finish his assembly business and make some more profit. I hope I'm wrong, but well, if steamboat doesn't inform us about what the hell he's actually doing, we're going to start assuming.

Steamboat, request refunds for the batches you can still get a refund on, ASAP. Then make an inventory on who wants a refund.

[BitCsByBit]

We are working on the refund situation and will update the thread when we have more information. We are not accepting refund requests at this time. Please show courtesy and respect when posting in our thread, messaging, or emailing us.

"We are not accepting refund requests at this time", well shit it appears I have some bad luck and chose the worst group-buy organizator of all of them.

Dear steamboat, the deadline to get a refund is wednesday. Get a move on. You have some nerve to request a show of courtesy and respect while you can't be bothered to update us maybe twice a week in a time where it matters a lot to be on time with refund requests. You need to step up when tight deadlines are on the table, as SebastianJu and Zefir already noticed that this Wednesday is a deadline for Yifu is receiving chips then. Take them as an example please.

Oh snap, i really hope he's already done at least 50% refund requests without telling us if Wednesday is the deadline.
sadly SteamBoat holds my biggest purchase. And asked for refund on the day Yifu published it.

I hope SB quickly follows in the footsteps of zefir and SebastianJu and takes Yifu's offer for chips refunds for some of the delayed batches.
I really don't want to miss out on this rare and very unexpected opportunity.

[LaserHorse]

Still very much looking forward to receiving my Fusion 16 units.
I am only interested in pursuing a refund for chips I ordered without assembly.

I imagine the logistics involved with a situation such as this are quite complex and require careful consideration to say the least.  I have no doubt an update will be posted once viable information is available.

[ibminer]

For the record, I emailed SB 3 days ago regarding refunding a batch 5 order that I sold to someone else.  I am keeping my batch 2 order for myself, primarily because of the inability to get back any assembly costs (based on SB's last post).  I have not yet gotten a response, but I am sure SB is aware of everything going on.

[Boxman90]

For the record, I emailed SB 3 days ago regarding refunding a batch 5 order that I sold to someone else.  I am keeping my batch 2 order for myself, primarily because of the inability to get back any assembly costs (based on SB's last post).  I have not yet gotten a response, but I am sure SB is aware of everything going on.

I've messaged him yesterday in a little more pressing way (the signed message  I posted here as well) and it goes to show, that just as with Yifu, pressuring him makes him reply way sooner. It's a bad sign IMO, but I got a response within 24 hours, with him basically saying "no refunds". Unacceptable.

[andrewsg]

I've messaged him yesterday in a little more pressing way (the signed message  I posted here as well) and it goes to show, that just as with Yifu, pressuring him makes him reply way sooner. It's a bad sign IMO, but I got a response within 24 hours, with him basically saying "no refunds". Unacceptable.

Unacceptable is you misrepresenting his answer.

Take a deep breath, I'm sure a solution is in the works.

[alfabitcoin]

Well it seems that Burnin won't accept assambly orders anymore for his bitburners! That can be good news for Steve and for chip buyers who want to keep their chip orders.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179769.msg3060806#msg3060806

However, it will be difficult and time consuming additional vat charges eu customers to do it actually.
There are cheaper options as Marto 50eur ($65) fully populated board hex16 (can be ovelocked to 450mhz with power design change) with heatsink including and testing. That is just as comparasion in the SB prices.

[driksson]

For the record, I emailed SB 3 days ago regarding refunding a batch 5 order that I sold to someone else.  I am keeping my batch 2 order for myself, primarily because of the inability to get back any assembly costs (based on SB's last post).  I have not yet gotten a response, but I am sure SB is aware of everything going on.

Ok but he has said many times that he will not be escrowing any groupbuy purchases between owners. You would need to receive them and pass them to your client (or maybe ship them to the assembler where your client wants them to be shipped)

[alfabitcoin]

For the record, I emailed SB 3 days ago regarding refunding a batch 5 order that I sold to someone else.  I am keeping my batch 2 order for myself, primarily because of the inability to get back any assembly costs (based on SB's last post).  I have not yet gotten a response, but I am sure SB is aware of everything going on.

Ok but he has said many times that he will not be escrowing any groupbuy purchases between owners. You would need to receive them and pass them to your client (or maybe ship them to the assembler where your client wants them to be shipped)

Well, he stated that he will not escrow such transfer and not that address change is not allowed. Beside if you ordered assambly there are billing and shipping addreses what can be edited and changed. What if somebody moves?

quote for terms in chip sales:

Terms

◦Full payment including all USD based fees is required prior to shipment to final destination.

◦Address signing is required for dispute settlement.

◦All sample chips will be given to open source hardware developers to facilitate production.

◦We assume no responsibility for any issues that may arise due to circumstances outside our control, including but not limited to Avalon failing to ship, shipment being seized by customs, shipment arriving late, etc.

◦All chips purchased are sold AS IS, with no warranty of any kind.

◦You may choose to change your address a maximum of two times.

◦In order to change your shipping address you must sign the change order with the purchase address.

[ibminer]

For the record, I emailed SB 3 days ago regarding refunding a batch 5 order that I sold to someone else.  I am keeping my batch 2 order for myself, primarily because of the inability to get back any assembly costs (based on SB's last post).  I have not yet gotten a response, but I am sure SB is aware of everything going on.

Ok but he has said many times that he will not be escrowing any groupbuy purchases between owners. You would need to receive them and pass them to your client (or maybe ship them to the assembler where your client wants them to be shipped)

Well, he stated that he will not escrow such transfer and not that address change is not allowed. Beside if you ordered assambly there are billing and shipping addreses what can be edited and changed. What if somebody moves?

quote for terms in chip sales:

Terms

◦Full payment including all USD based fees is required prior to shipment to final destination.

◦Address signing is required for dispute settlement.

◦All sample chips will be given to open source hardware developers to facilitate production.

◦We assume no responsibility for any issues that may arise due to circumstances outside our control, including but not limited to Avalon failing to ship, shipment being seized by customs, shipment arriving late, etc.

◦All chips purchased are sold AS IS, with no warranty of any kind.

◦You may choose to change your address a maximum of two times.

◦In order to change your shipping address you must sign the change order with the purchase address.

Because I had 2 orders under the same account both with full assmebly, I couldn't really hand over the account or change shipping information. I had already worked out something with the buyer, and had intended to re-ship them to him immediately after receiving - but he wants the refund at this point (can't say I blame him!)... and I am treating my batch 5 order as if it was his, so its his decision.

[ScaryHash]

Any boards produced by anyone will not ROI in BTC value. Not by a long shot.

The whole USD-now-USD-then ROI story is bullshit. You paid in BTC. You're going to end up with less BTC. Therefore you do not return your BTC investment.

I think steamboat has mixed interests in this case, as I assume he doesn't want to refund the boards he's building. If he's going to be as bold to wait until after wednesday, and let way late chips arrive, so he can build his boards and make more profit, well darn, I think I'm going to come after him with pitchforks like we did with Yifu. I have nothing to do with his assembly service. The chips won't ROI, Yifu is making refunds, all other groupbuys have already gotten their batches refunded yet steamboats is YET AGAIN sitting on his ass waiting for the best outcome for him, while the wednesday deadline is coming so close that it's going to be practically impossible to get all customers to make a stand on "refund yes/no" before then.

SebastianJu and Zefir started way back inventoring which customers wanted refunds and which wanted to keep the chips. But steamboat, oh well, just says again "hurr we'll wait some more, no refunds, soz", while he could have also just contacted all customers and ask them to take a stand, so he can get refunds on the batches while it's still possible.

But no, steamboat did nothing, and now doesn't know what customers want refunds and which ones don't, he doesn't keep us up-to-date in these pressured times and, well, frankly, with a 18 BTC investment I'm just not okay with that.

Seriously i suspect he is waiting for those early batches to ship anyway (even though >90% doesn't want them) so he can finish his assembly business and make some more profit. I hope I'm wrong, but well, if steamboat doesn't inform us about what the hell he's actually doing, we're going to start assuming.

Steamboat, request refunds for the batches you can still get a refund on, ASAP. Then make an inventory on who wants a refund.

Did you actually READ the August 29th update?? There is NO communication from Yifu. Steamboat has tried calling, PM'ing, e-mailing. Nothing.

We all took a risk. Please stop spreading FUD on the forums and stop panicking. Just because other batches got refunds does not mean anything.

This isn't a playground. Just because somebody else got some ice cream does not mean you will get any ice cream.

You took a risk, like everybody else, and now the risk/rewards ratio has changed. You don't have to like it. In fact, I don't like it either. But posting drivel like the above is not going to change anything.
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