or go to localbitcoins.com, and talk to the seller directly and have him sell you and bypass the localbitcoin.com scam where they have you use their address, most of the sellers post their website on localbitcoins.com, so its easy to bypass the middle-man

lots of ways to buy

you can have the seller meet you in a public place and pay cash, or transfer from your bank, nobody has to use paypal ( musk )

'Exchanges' are trading fronts to rip off newbs,  they take your cash, and then show you a balance in BTC that they hold for you, how do you even know if that is backed by REAL BTC?? You don't, its not your address, its there's, if you don't hold the private-key, you don't own it, if you demand, and provide an address where you hold the 'priv-key', and they send you your money in BTC, expect to pay $150 or more in fees, another way they rob you

Almost all the 'exchanges' are really just trading pits, so newbs can buy/sell any crypto they wish, most operate like 'nicehash', where they never let you use your own address where you hold the private-key

Even the IRS-COINBASE works on the same premise, they hold the KEY, they OWN your bitcoin


"How do exchange makes money"? by ripping people off

1.) The #1 way exchanges get bitcoins is they force their customers to hold the private key on the exchange, thus the ownership of YOUR btc is in their hands

2.) The #2 way is that they charge huge fees to get in&out of BTC

3.) The #3 way is that they set the mining fee's high to get fast transaction settlements and pass all fee's onto the customer, of course most miners in china, are the owners of the exchanges so this is a 'keep the money' in the family racket

If your a large miner, it pays to own your own exchange, so that you can easily go to cash with no middle-man, also all the fee's are passed to customer

eToro on their website says 90% of all users/traders lose 100% of their deposits in one months, not a bad racket, 'exhanges/trading houses' are a legal way to print fiat.

Never mind, uncle-joe and his stimmy-check army of robinhood traders has bitcoins back

Just got to tell them to sell their DOGECOIN and buy btc

U just gave an arg for DOGECOIN, or any of the alt 21M (9,000) crypto shit-coins

How about an argument for BTC?

Once BTC loses #1 Capitalization ranking, are you all going to still be calling it the 'one'

I think you left out 'private' the most important thing of all, funny how nobody cares about 'privacy' here, its almost like they all know BTC.gov is a means of control, and not banking freedom

honestly how can you promote the 'myth' of 'decentralized' when you know for a fact that china control +67% of the block-chain formation aka mining

scarce, yep 21M alt-coins by 2025, real scarce this crypto be

...

In all the world, rich people don't flaunt their wealth, that's how you get robbed; Real rich people build walls around their homes so nobody see's what they got

Until BTC makes BITCOIN private and allows a means where addresses cannot be 'blacklisted' by IRS-COINBASE, BITCOIN is a failure to live up to its 2009 promises.

It already has, fell to $47k yesterday, and now stable at $50k

'Margin-Calls', when the margin-calls kicked in, people sell assets to raise cash to cover the calls. ( collapse of Archego biggest fund loss since LTCM )

GOLD is always the easiest thing to raise cash to cover 'calls', so GOLD went down first.

BITCOIN is extremely hard to sell, especially $350B USD, pump from fall 2020 to spring 2021, it took a few weeks, and the sale was delayed by miners in China going off line, its still hard to do transactions.

Now we have BTC etfs, and futures there can be a complete disconnect in 'price discovery' just like in GOLD, where everybody is doing paper-derivatives, and the real thing you must pay a premium.

BITCOIN prices are NOT based on 'feelings' of investors, the $350B that came in from 'Institutional' is not robinhood stimmy boyz, on average they own 0.05BTC, and they by a majority drink the koolaide labelled 'HODL'

NOW that most BTC trading is by the way of CANADIAN BTC ETF's, and stock like RIOT, MARA, COIN there can be a complete disconnect from reality, just like there is on GLD compared to street price of physical in a shop.

Most of the posted BTC prices are from exchanges, who don't even actually have BTC, they just float it on their books and time-2-time they go bankrupt when their is a run, but these days there are so many limits on cash withdrawls that its almost impossible to call their bluff. Again the entire BITCOIN eco-system is a criminal endeavor.

Now that IRS-COINBASE has gone public, and ownership by US-GOV secured, its in the interest of GOV that BTC ETF's be too-big-too-fail TBTF

From this point its either going down to $10k or higher, or to the moon ... $100k, if it goes to the moon, then it means that the US-GOV is funding BITCOIN, or in reality 'mixing' worthless USD into digital-gold, this also brings in the entire world, which keeps the USA from going bankrupt.

The irony is that Satoshi mythology is 180 degree opposite of this intended outcome.

Probably the reason that NO politician came out to 'endorse' BTC is-was they were waiting to see if it sticks, or if they could get it under their control, I think now those questions have been answered.

So for the people on this board, your wildest dreams have come true, BTC is now the official currency of the USA-MAFIA.

Of course the wild-card is +67% mining in China, and 99% of HW miners 'made  in china', if they pull the plug, given the chip shortage, there is no way the west can replace the bitcoin miners. Lot's of wild-cards, even if the USA GOV MOB does protect BITCOIN. We know they're prepared to dump trillions of USD into anything that keeps them on life support.

BTC is a lot like Hotel-California, you can come in, but you can never leave.

The same argument could be "Feces will replace food", some would probably eat it.

Same argument is that women would wear Bitcoin, which is irrational, because BTC is an intangible.

The problem of course is its impossible to debate a physical with an ethereal, this is an old debate "How many angels can dance on the tip of a needle", people died, and were murdered over this question, in the dark ages.

Then & now, humans beings are insane.

Digital here means an accounting mechanism, long ago the USD note was backed by gold, now its backed  by murder-inc, post saudi petro dollar

The digital accounting of BTC has no meaning, because your counting an intangible, long ago there was a book 'the little prince' in that book there was a rich man, who had a book, that proved ownership of all the stars.

All can see that humans are becoming stupider as time evolves.

"Virtual FIAT" of which is what BTC is-is, has already been defined in CHINA as losing value in time, the entire justification is to maintain money-velocity, to keep an economy humming, a normal community planned gov control.

Fiat of course is 'money by decree', as we in USA call "money by murder", if you don't trade you cocaine/opium/oil in USD we destroy your country, Fiat-'Money by order, by order of death'

VF makes fiat by murder even easier, because its all tracked, and if your not a good puppy then your VF balance goes to zero, this is the kind of future that BTC people are bringing to themselves.

Given that BTC came from IMF-BIS, via NSA, what really difference does it make Virtual-Fiat, or Physical-Fiat, or Fed-Fiat? Its all of the same cloth. BIS (Swiss money-printers/bankers ) has ruled the earth some 100 years now, the real question is will you let them 'reset' the world and ensure their rule another 100 years? Who say you?

The entire 2009 narrative of BTC-NSA NakamotoSAtoshi was "BITCOIN sets you free from the bankers", BTC lets you be your own bank, we now know that was all bullshit. The reality is BTC just gives them more power over your lives.

Ft.Meade is where NSA created BTC, and SHA256, and SECp256k1, so what's your point?

The coal problem is here, I saw it with my own eyes, first the miners were near cheap hydro, but in recent years here in ASIA, the rivers have dried up. So the miners moved to coal plants;

It's a super big problem, and lots of people in CHINA are just as money crazy as the fools on this site, something has to be done, IMHO that something is to charge 25cent/khw here in CHina. For any electricity used to mine any crypto.

Do you realize that you haven't said anything? "Not Impressive" is a generic bot sentiment response, which is the case of 99% of the comenters on this site, its usually "HODL", or "HATER", so you are original.

How about discussing the ramifications?? We just saw fee's sky-rocket from $10 to $150 when the coal-plant flood dropped the power to the regional miners, what happens when CCP pulls the plug?

Some will argue, who cares fee's go to $1,000 BTC goes to infinity, but not true, because it means that all transactions grind to a halt, no confirmations, but now so many 'confirmations' and chains are offline (side-chains), who really knows price discovery anymore??

IMHO what keeps BTC at a support of $50k right now is 'plunge protection team', now that real big money can be lost, and has been lost, our GOV has no choice but to declare bitcoin as "Too big to fail"

There is no logical reason for the current $50k support, yesterday BTC was in freefall in a week it dropped $63k to $47k, more  than 25% loss.

Now its being held at $50k, but why???

The only explanation is that TBTF is here, which is logical because INSTITUTIONAL investors ( big money ), OPM money and Loans ( MUSK CEO bets ) drove BTC from $30k to $63k the past 5-6 months, and in just a week 25% was lost.

The argument, and not by the pumpers&criminals on this site, the argument on wall-street since fall-2020 is that BTC is now the place to park your cash, its the new 'money-market' of the 1980's, given that MM pay 0.01%, and BTC has enjoyed a 127x increase in recent years, all have gone aboard.

Why not stimmy checks ten's of trillions to corporations during COVID, why not? Especially if the GOV can buy ETF's, why can't the US-GOV buy bitcoin?? Why can't all US-GOV local, state, & national, why can't they park their tax-payers CASH in BTC??

See that's what's going, so now what happens? Sure the FED can just keep buying BITCOIN, forever Right


The correct support should have been $30k, or $10k, or $6k, or $3k; MUSK will start seeing 'blood' if BTC hits $42k, since MUSK-INC is arm of the US-GOV, why shouldn't they bail their boy out, just like they Amazon, Google, & Facebook are Gov-Fronts.

Sure ya'll will say "But I'm getting rich", sure you are, but just like everything else, they'll let you get rich & Uncle Joe-Biden, will put a 90% tax on your gains, which will fund "WOKE"

In summary BTC has become just a giant 'mixer' for the FED, which is funny its illegal so say the FBI to 'mix' BTC, but its ok for the US-GOV to mix FIAT-FECES and turn it into DIGITAL-GOLD

So, what a TULIP went from a nickle, to the value of a house, during Tulip-Mania (1637 peak) so what?

"Pet-Rocks" went to 100's dollars back in the day, and also $1 cabbage-patch dolls went to infinity

The fact stupid people in a mass hysteria can drive feces to infinity, is a recurring human trait, in all of human history.

Bitcoin is more like the south-sea bubble, where it had many peaks, and eventually last & highest peak, and then even the elite got wiped out. This is where we are today, since fall of 2020 the 'institutional' investors moved $350B into BITCOIN, because its seen as a place to park you cash, in an era  where DALIO say's "CASH IS TRASH", but then this week BTC lost 25%, and everybody who parked there cash in BITCOIN isn't looking so smart.

IMHO what keeps BTC at a support of $50k right now is 'plunge protection team', now that real big money can be lost, and has been lost, our GOV has no choice but to declare bitcoin as "Too big to fail"

So for all you suckers, yes keep on the bitcoin train, but understand this bitch is going down.

How did tulip, south-sea, and Mississippi bubbles end? They all ended when the GOV treasurys were destroyed. I have no doubt that China&Russia are totally enjoying this show, cuz when its over all this feces wealth can&will go to ZERO

The argument of this graph is that BTC is better than gold, well the 'pet-rock' era by that logic would mean that common river rocks are also better than gold. One should never equate mass-insanity with tangible long-term value.

GOLD

real, tangible

history forever

gov can't track, private

never gone to zero

fungible, anywhere on earth

women love it

power goes off, your gold is there

The only confusion here is are we talking about 'fake gold' on the stock-market, or are we talking about physical in your hand? If your talking about GLD ( feces ), then yes its comparable to BITCOIN(feces)

100% controlled by the man, who knows where it is hidden

created by GOD

BITCOIN

100% scam, promoted by common criminals worldwide

virtual, non-tangible

non-fungible, 3 classes of btc virgin, pristine, and tainted, most coin is tainted, e.g. its been 'mixed'; try cashing-out to USD(FIAT) with the IRS-coinbase to get cash in an emergency

history of losing 90% frequently

endlessly promoted by nigerian scammer and their ilk

women don't want it, unless you can turn it into gold/cash instantly

power goes off your btc is not there

internet is switched off your btc is toast

gov intends to black-list all btc that doesn't have high-val addresses registered to a KYC, IRS-COINBASE is why the US-GOV took over COINBASE, to normalize the 'taking' of bitcon


100% owned and controlled by CCP, chinese gov

created by NSA-IMF-BIS to keep excess FIAT from pouring into GOLD, 1997 IMF-BIS white-paper "How to make a digital bank".

Created by NSA, e.g. NakamotoSAtoshi is a myth, BITCOIN is 100% NSA, both SECP256k1 & SHA256 were developed by NSA, the backbone of BITCOIN

Name one problem that BITCOIN has solved?

BITCOIN is 100% scammer, criminals, and con-artists

Sure 2010 there were some programmers with good hearts, but todays BTC is 100% ponzi

Wow, do you realize your entire response was non-contextual?

I haven't seen the old 'distributed malware in 2018' canard since  the old ADL days when we were protesting Palestinian occupation.

So you realize the subject is 'coal', not mentioned once, and china, also not mentioned.

Please go back to your software author, and ask for a major upgrade, maybe Musk or Gates can help you.

---

Perhaps you missed the boat, CHINA makes 99% of the mining HW on earth, nobody else has factorys

China, today has +67% of mining, and they're growing, and nobody is going to replace them

Like always bitcoin community well keep its head in the sand, and ignore its demise, I give you credit, at least you didn't deny that it was the truth, 99% of the bots here on this site will deny 2+2=4

---

Miner's create the blockchain, +67% of all mining is done in china

They quit mining, the blockchain is kaput

The fee's go to $1,000 to send $1

The local home-boy running a full-node is not a miner

BITMAIN isn't in an arms race with anyone ANT bought the company store, he owned ALL, which is why he's now in 'prison' an the CCP has taken over his empire

They want bigger dams, but there is no water in the rivers, that's why the move to coal, but coal burning so that geeks in the USA can HODL is not in the interest of CHina.

Not trying to pin anything, just saying that BITCOIN is a scam, and its about to come to an abrupt end.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

In have seen your second list many times floating around. You know the $65B is just public companys and their SEC report, the vast majority is private CORP money.

Under your logic,you really think that the other $300B came from who robinhood traders??

Today BTC is under 1Trillion, just a few weeks ago it was 1.3T, now its close to 950B, that where I get my $350B, somebody lost the money, I guess you could average out and say it was the people who bought ten years ago, but in my mind the people who lost this money are those who bout post Oct 2020, and that $350B rise didn't come from stimmy-checks, as most of that money went to alts'

https://news.bitcoin.com/btc-balance-sheets-42-companies-hold-1-3-million-bitcoin-worth-more-than-65-billion/

42 companys on public record, it doesn't mean all companys, it just means 42 that they know of

There is that number 42 again, the number that Musk spent on entry $42k, that's a critical number when BTC hits that number MUSK will spontaneously combust.

Everything is NOT connected, and if you think that if a list of 7 items that are generic connects something, then you have a serious problem in critical thinking.


So now for  the third time, how do you justify your $38K support level for the BTC collapse??

Well I was talking about BIG CORP 'smart money', not stupid little people money. R U telling me that your a CEO like MUSK? I don't think so.

I really think you missed the point. I could try again, the question is "Why should the BIG CORPORATIONS, return the $350Billion USD they just lost to BITCOIN" Your response above has nothing to do with this question.

I would suggest that you read Marc Fabers book "Tomorrows Gold" the history  of wealth, back to the cave man ages, he talks about how to keep money through all times good&bad, and he's obviously not talking about 'gold' cuz he says 'tomorrow'

My take on crypto is like keeping box of cash on hand, or some pocket gold, just enough to get over if the banks fail.

I'm a math-physics person, I  used to write crypto-software for commercial markets, I'm not at all impressed by bitcoin, or its lying promoters.

Here in ASIA everybody keeps 2-1/2 ounces of gold hidden at hand, so in emergency they can flee, and start over. Some keep more, its true in India as well, nobody trusts paper-money, and all gov's encourage their people having gold, unlike the USSA. Where gold ownership is discouraged.

Like the man said, your CRYPTO only works on the NET, when its alive, the US-DOD created TCP-IP, if&when shit hits the fan, first thing they do is shutoff comm. Fact.

You write like a young person, or a non-english speaker, or perhaps your just really bad at typing.  I well tell you, 90% of all fortune in human history were made in real-estate; But yes in times of war, you lose that, that's why smart people are always ready to bail and find a new domicile and start over, again its why people keep that bag-of-gold at hand. Diversification goes without saying, on the other hand in all history the wise advise you to keep all your eggs in one basket, and watch like a hawk.

I will tell you how I handle crypto. I too never sell, but I never BUY, I mined years ago; I have various alts that are now worth ridiculous sums; I have very little BTC, but I do hack BTC because its my hobby, over the years I have found many private-keys, but I just add them to my CSV and watch how long it takes other to spend them. It gives me an idea of how quick other people are hacking bitcoin. Like windows, it's not a problem on the alt-coins, cuz 99% of the criminal-hackers are on bitcoin. Just like 99% of the hackers are on windows.

I think BTC is an NSA honey-pot, that's why I never touch BTC, even though I have some ( keys ), I never would ever use them in an exchange, because then I would go on 'their' list. I think all USA exchanges, and most on earth are honeypots.

Now enough, BS how about answering my question. You said $38k but you never justified that number. Like I said, I see NO support at that number.

Well this 25% correction is just the first week, and today in ASIA we had 10% ($55k->$47k), which means at the open USA there will be correction, this correction isn't over until the fat lady sings, and in the past it took 9-12 months to find the sweet resting spot, before BTC resumed its mtn climb

For the record, back in 2017 in this forum I said post $20k collapse, no way $6k could go back to $20k, but how in the hell did I know about COVID, or free stimmy-check, or trillions of money to corporations

So now with this current 'hedge-fund blowout',[archegos] not seen since LTCM, could/would the US-GOV step in and bail out these BTC losses that we'll see on this 40% decline ( using your number $61k to $38k ), we're talking 100's of billions of USD loss here ( I calc about $350B loss in a week ), and most of it is CORP money, and they like to privatize gain, but socialize loss.

Of course if this doesn't happen, there is no TBTF, no bailout, say we can't blame the Russians for CORP USA buying Bitcoin, then why in the hell would they ever step back in??

Or horror of horrors, what if our own Federal-Reserve-Bank was already activated the plunge-protection-team to save bitcoins ass, to save MUSK, to save uncle-scam, ...

Under real world conditions BTC would have never been worth anything, had post 2008 people not lost trust in the USD or US-GOV, bitcoin would have had no traction, of course now with "GET RICH EASY", of course nobody gives a shit about this,

I find it hilarious that everyone on BTC is 'rich' and in lockdown, folks that isn't rich, rich is 'freedom'.

OK thanks for giving me a numbe, but I really don't see a support level between $60k all the way down to $11k, the $38k is a magic number, cuz that's where a lot of CEO's made entry into BITCOIN as 'investment in Jan 2021.

Remember the entire reason for the bubble was cheap-cash, COVID stimulus CORP & personal; These things aren't in the future.

Also the narrative bought in the biz community fall of 2020 to spring 2021 was "Bitcoin is a safe place to park cash", now that we have 25% loss in a week, and most like a 50% loss in the coming week, why in the hell on earth would this BIG stupid money come back to BITCOIN?

Things always OVER-REACT, there isn't much choice here, all this CORP money is borrowed money ( now a loss ), all this HEDGE-MONEY is OPM other peoples money, its not like any of this can HODL, we're not talking about leading morons to the cliff here.

Sorry for my sophistry, just want to know your justification for a solid support at $38k.

I see your point, I'm just using coinmarketcap.com right now for reference, but I remember well the $20k top, and the following 90% crash, back then the mod's here were super sensitive you couldn't even mention the 90% crash, they were ostriches with their in the ground

I tried to do averages in my $6k to $60k 2020 rise, if you look at the last major parabolic rise, it didn't end well.

This parabolic rise will also not end well, we have a 25% loss in a week, come the morning in USA there will be more selling,

My question here is what is the bottom this time??

Using your numbers of x127, last parabolic blow out we ended up at 6x, e.g. started at $500, and found last support at $3,000, using same logic of 2020 pre-covid support at $6k, we're not going to find support at $36k

The problem here is BIG-NUMBER's don't play the same as small numbers


Easy to get $500 to $10k, and then find support at $1,000 later

But here you had big INSTITUTION & CORPORATIONS during COVID jump on BTC as a 'in lieu of cash', that is what send our $6000  (march 13,2020) to $61000 ( apr 14,2021), I call that 10x, you call it x7, so whatever

The question, is what is the support level post-crash? What do you see? We can't base it on history and certainly we can't even agree on history, as you choose to think that the past gains were larger, and current smaller.

The 2017 gain was over a year to $500 to $20k ( a 40x gain ), the 2020-2021 covid rally was 3-4 months tops to go $10k to $60k, so the velocity and gain is completely different on the most recent parabolic bubble insanity.

...

So in summary, the question again is what is the final support level?? Will you even take a guess?? My reading the chart is that it seems to take a year on average to find the low consolidation following a bitcoin parabolic bubble blowout.

The past tells us nothing about the future, the little guy suckers holding 0.05 BTC (average hold) HODL'er is not what created our current bubble, the 100's of billions came from corporation and hedge-funds parking their cash in BITCOIN, and now they either pull out or take a terrible loss. HODL THEY CANNOT NOT.

feb 28,2021 $46k?

jan 26, 2021 $32K?

pre-covid/stimmy moonshot $10k

What is the sweet resting place of bitcoin during this sell-off??

I think we're already near testing the $46k now, the USA hasn't even woke up yet to panic

On the way to $32k lots of big firms are going to have to liquidate.

Was Bitcoin 2020->2021 a 'pandemic stock'?? If true, then $10k is a likely resting place

Is BITCOIN TBTF have so many investment houses bought BTC as a 'cash equivalent' does this now harm the bedrock of finance? Remember $1Trillion is in BITCOIN, that's a big loss

This is not a 'whale game' what happened in recent COVID time is that 'HOLDING-CASH" became TABOO,

Remember Ray Dalio "Cash is Trash", no return, negative rates.

All this started with  the hedge fund collapse a few months ago, 100's of billions on margin-call, the PROBLEM is when everybody in financed is holding their CASH in BITCOIN, and there is a massive margin-call, then this is why you see bitcoin selling off 100's of billions in market capitalization

When firms get 100's of billions in margin calls, they're cash calls, not BTC calls; so the BTC needs to be sold to rise up the cash

I didn't happen immediately because banks covered each other based on their BITCOIN holdings as reserve escrow, but once the selling started then all hell broke lose, which why you now see 25% loss on bitcoin in one week

Not a damn thing to do with whales.

https://content.fortune.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Screenshot-2021-04-21-nj.jpg