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Hello, I dabble in chia-plotting do about 16x day plot generation, for the last few months. A plot is large 108gb file created similar to a bitcoin sha-256 hash, the name of the file represents the hash of that 'plot' (file); The space of chia is all the plots combined at that point in time given 8% daily growth that is 51k new plots added to the network daily
Morons solo mine, what they don't understand is that last month (1eb) they needed 1k plots to win, this month you need 10k plots to win. This is why I pool-mine using hpool, which has been around for months.
So, I have a good idea of what I earn, right now at current space EB is 7.4, e.g. 7.4 billion-billion bytes
400 plots can earn 1 chia every month on hpool (dot com) right now, so 1 plot earns 7 cents / day.
I'm curious how much it costs to host and generate plots, AWS ain't cheap the resources to make a plot are enormous 6-8 hours and 1.5 trillion random r/w on a virtual-disk
Just curious if there is anybody out there stupid enough to do this, and what your paying.
Lot's of people are now offering 'plots' for sale; but I never see the price, given how much it costs to make plots ( I mean I burn up one nvme on every 100 plot creation ), and you need a super-computer, and 3 nvme system, ... its not a cheap hobby to make plots.
So lots of people who want to be green think "I will just buy plots, or farm them on amazon on my mobile phone", ... how much is this costing you? For 7 cents a day, that drops by 1/2 every nine days ( chia space grows 8% per day ), doubles every 9 days, ergo your income on fixed plots 1/2 every 9 days.
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Which coin i start mining, is it profitable, my budget is only 1000$.
I just want to take a start.
What your asking is on "Whattomine" dot com website, it ranks daily the most profitable coins to mine.
Thats the answer to your OP, its been ETH for the past year or more. Now to address your budget, which is pathetic, and un-realistic. Everything has its time, now is not. Six months ago I could buy an RTX-3070 for $500, and earn $10/day of Ethereum with that card. ( See you don't actually make any money in this game Now that card is $1500, well over your budget. Now almost all GPU's on earth are un-available. All GPU mining requires at least 6gb, but you need to buy more because right now ETH is at 4.6GB, and its growing, you don't want to be stuck with an obsolete drive. Realistically the highest value mining with GPU is ETH, but your budget can't buy you a graphic card, there is none on the planet earth within your budget. These days at the very least I would by a RTX-3060 with say 12gb, thats a long life, that card if you can find it is $1k, but your really need six to be in the game. Just wait, all this shit will drop in price once ETH comes out with POS and mining is no longer profitable. Beware also all the new RTX cards are crippled 'nerf'd' they say, its a real bad time to come into this 'game' |
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use a baby-step/giant-step algo that runs through public-keys, where I have 100's of 1,000's every 20 minutes randomly search for a new key from that public hash ( of known high-value ) So does your bloom contain addresses or pub keys? Sounds like you have addresses in bloom filter. If you tweaked vansearch to a modified BSGS, what is the process your program is running? (Reading your github now) A bloom filter only has H160 hex-addresses straight from the private-key, can be in comp or un-comp format. The 'address' can be 1z, 3c, ...any format I use address template to mix match the batch runs, I have a data base of all user-addresses > 1.0 btc for all time, every new run, one of those is used as a 'template' sort of line vanity-search. But once the thing is running, then every 100M private-keys the seed changes so the searches are never the same. On every 250MH/SEC cycle I check 4 h160 formats lookup into the bloom, the bloom has 300M h160's, so actual match on each cycle is 300M*250M, which is 1TH, but this is using the slowest GPU. U always use h160 in the bloom filter its the most compact, 'addresses' are just human things, but when you do this it helps it helps to structure private-key space to map to a realistic address. Read me white paper at the site, on top of this post, this project has two dozen components. Almost all source has been posted on github, but I could have missed something. More work has been done on mapping 'addresses' to private-key space ( think vanity search ), than say private key to h160 which is just sha-256 & by definition 100% random. Addresses have structure, so I can use ML to train so the machine can search for private-keys in an intelligent way. Hey it works. I'll repeat that are dozens of components the blind man & elephant is apt here, if you think only about the leg, you'll never see the elephant. The only thing interesting about the bloom-filter is that it was extremely difficult to get the 8gb to work in memory in real-time, so I could do 9PTH/Sec with a rtx-3070, which generates about one high value private-key per week. Applying this to a rig would bust tons of bitcoins wide open I used to do this years ago, but my fatal flaw was not putting the bloom filter on its own NVME m.2 next to the cpu now instead of 20MH/SEC, I'm see 1500MH/sec, then multiply that by 300M h160 ( addresses ). In summary the bloom filter matches h160 directly mapped from the private key by secp256k1 rules; The usage of human readable 'btc-addresses' is just a training method so that the engine is doing a baby-step/giant-step in a proablistic area for that key/addr pair. It doesn't matter if it finds it because it check 300M others on the same cycle, so its a twofer. Sorry I have tried to answer your question ten different ways, I hope you get it. I know this is all a very different way about thinking about hacking btc, its why everybody has failed so far, 99.9% just randomly compare 1 key to one address on each cycle. I have published this work because its done. My personal work is ECDLP directly mapping public keys to private keys using advanced mathematic & super-computers. I didn't tweak vanity-search it was completely re-written over the last few years, and about 5 years ago I re-wrote vanity-flayer for opencl, and I also rewrote brain-flayer, which I now call BF3, and its supports 4GB bloom, the original was 512mb. ... The critical in all this is setting up the 8gb bloom-filter with valid h160 hex from the blockchain. Then deploying the BLF file on its own NVME. Then shit just sky-rocketed. The GPU went from 10% usage to 99.9%. I used to put the bloom on the GPU, and that was super-fast, but debugging from hell. That code is also included. There must be nothing else on the NVME than this 8gb file, its critical that there is no-busy controller issues, then its just like an 8gb dynamic-ram disk through shared-memory connected to the GPU. All this is important, because its nothing to get 250MH/sec out of a card, the importance is the 300M *250MH |
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I use EVO pro 980's 1TB to plot, I get 100 plots, at 25% warranty of the 600TB, at 150 they die, the controller fails, then it can still be used for sequential, but no longer used for chia plotting. Drive manufacturers have already announced if you mine, the warranty is VOID. 5yr warranty kaput. Oh well, even at today's EB (7.4) 100 plots is 1/4 xch/month on hpool.com, so I'm paying for my NVME's  I plot 16x a day, I stay just even steven about 1 xch a month, and have been plotting for months. If you solo mine with chia-net you get zero, unless you have 10k plots. |
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was there any pre-mined coins?
yes, 21 million Chia coins were pre-mined by the corporate entity controlling Chia They also said there is no limit. Think about that. The chia-net team also said their only goal is to go public as an IPO, and be the next Red-Hat, a software support company, and be bought about out by IBM for 10's of BIllions, kid you not right on their video they say this. These bozo's can't even get the blockchain to sync after 5 years in dev, you think they should have just cut&pasted BTC's blockchain and called it good. What's the deal with price? It was traded in China since jan 1, 2021 as an IOU, before the my 5,2021 launch, it went up the $1600 USD all be its own as a 'scam coin' on chinese exchange, 100% gambling. Chia-Dev rushed to main-net, but they hadn't test the block-chain, now its a kluster-fuck, no pool But then a guy in CHINA created a hpool months ago called HPOOL.COM, and it works, and I use I create 16x plots a day, and earn lots of xch, the 'woke' morons who bought the green-feces BS are told "Don't use the chinese hpool, you'll go blind, or shoot your eye out". Chia is an entire new market for crypto's its targetting the woke-millenials post covid, and they think up is down, and left is right, Chia is the ultimate barometer that crypto has found its last sucker. |
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Is additional entropy beyond 256 bits discarded or is there any added benefit? I know it would be minimal, but want to know the technicalities.
Also: the 24th word is a checksum. What would happen if I used a 24th word that was not a valid checksum? Would it not be possible or would addresses not have a valid private key etc...?
U only need to roll the dice 32 times with pairs, that will give your 64 integers, you input that into 'ku' and you will get back a real nice WIF private-key All computer generated random numbers are deterministic, so this is really the only way to create a real random number. Of course if you want to get technical you should roll HEX dice (16) sided, or decimal (10 sided 0-9), but I find that 32 rolls of a pair does just fine (0-5, 1-6). All other things remain skeptical, you use sw to generate a random key you don't know, most trezors have been hacked, most software is deterministic with an original seed, they already know for all time the future random numbers you will be using. So for the ultimate security hell yes roll those dice.
thanks. How many rolls is recommended? 100 is needed for 256 bits but does it make sense to use more in case of poor dice etc...? is too many rolls ever bad? I don't think so. does it make sense to do 200 rolls? How do you count each dice result? Iancoleman counts as it follows: 1 = 01
2 = 10
3 = 11
4 = 0
5 = 1
6 = 00 Every roll would give you 2 out of 6 times, 1 bit and 4 out of 6, 2 bits. That being said, if you want 256 bits then you'll have to roll it from 128 to 256 times. The average roll will give you 1.66 bits (2 - 1/3) and thus, you'll have created your entropy in around 256/1.666 ~= 154 rolls. If you want 128 bits, which isn't a bad choice, then you'll have to roll it ~77 times. Take a look on this: [Open Source] Coin Flipped SeedYou roll pairs, then 2,3, 5,1; becomes 2351, then you run 'ku' part of python pycoin toolset ku automatically assumes that the huge digit ( 10e77 ) is a private-key in integer format, it returns to you all permutations of that key in bitcoin format. You copy&paste the WIF, and call it good. I personally think this is way better than 12/24 stupid words. If you did 40 rolls of pairs, you would be certain to max (10e77 with 80 digits ), but IMHO 32 rolls is just fine. The counting as integer is way easier than binary, or hex; Keep it Simple. [moderator's note: consecutive posts merged] |
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2.) add the 8gb bloom filter, note that linux only support 4gb shared memory, so the bloom must be cascaded, note that brain-flayer only used a 512mb bloom, so creating a 8gb bloom is a major task in software engineering
I had PhoenixMiner running with 10gb GPU memory and haven't heard of this limitation. Why map the bloom filter as shared gpu memory in the first place? Also how are you storing this bloom filter on SSD? Is that what you mean by shared memory, by using something like mmap() on a file? Well its easy onboard GPU to generate sep256k1 keys, and to map to hash160 addresses, then on the same GPU in theory 1,000MH/sec you look up once in just a few cycles if that h160 is in the hot-list of the bloom-filter. Problem of course is CUDA doesn't work well, I did get it to work with OPEN-CL, but never got the bloom above 1GB which is big, but not big enough. When brainflayer came out they had 512mb blooms, but their list of bitcoins that had value was only 15M, now there are 300M, so you need +8gb bloom just to prevent the false positives. I hope this helps you understand the problem. The new technique is rather cool, the gpu generates a 10k key-pairs(address-h160/priv-key) to shared memory, the cpu runs the list with the on-board NVME bloom, never having to access a physical disk, the GPU actually runs at almost 100% all the time. There is general mathematical equations that tell you for N objects how big your bloom-filter must be to reduce your false-positives to x. I shoot for 1 in a trillion-trillion What I used to do with OPENCL is reduce the list of bitcoin addresses to less greater than 10000 satoshis, but IMHO its better to just keep it open to all addresses ever used in the block chain. I have two python routines in the github, one is get-all, which scans the blockchain for all addresses ( you can set the satoshi threshold ), and then I have a get-new which is a process that gets the new addresses off the mining pool every 10 minutes. All this updates the bloom filter every hour, which is then shipped back to the miners via /linuxshare on samba drives. The only thing on the NVME on the miner is this bloom, which is share with the mother super computer who is updating the bloom-filter for all her miners. |
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Very easy if you have the wallet file, start with 'john the ripper' for wallets, google it, [ hashcat is super good] look for article's online that teach you how to use these tools I recently forgot my wallet password for my ETH wallet, and it had $$ bummer max, but I was able to find the 'lost' password in 1-2 days, I had 3 machines running con-currently, they support GPU's super fast. [ actually I had forgot about this wallet from an address I had setup years ago, when I tried to open the account I realized I didn't know the correct password. So what I did is make a list of all passwords I have ever used for the past ten years", and like I said 2-3 days on 3 computers running and the slowest computer found it, it was "InaWorldofFencesNobodyNeedsBillGates%%xx00xx", I mean hell how in the well could have cracked that, but it did Almost all the hacking, or cracking I should say support all file formats, which includes all wallet formats for all crypto. There is usually in the file-name, or the first few bytes of the wallet info that tells about the crypto-algo used, you plug that into JTR, and away you go; It helps if you have a clue about what the original password is-was, you can add a file of 'hints', which helps a lot, if the password is say 20 random characters that can take months to crack; But if the password was "Ilovedogxxxx", and you don't remember what xxxx value was, then that can be found in a few minutes. Lots of new versions of 'ripper' that support GPU, just make sure before you do this,you have the wallet-file, that you have a super-fast machine, with GPU's; This is not a task for your handheld mobile phone, this is cmd-line stuff, if your a GUI dependent your up shit creek. |
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All talk and no examples of anything, getting tired of all this theory talk.
https://github.com/room101-dev/Grand-Ultimate-BTC-Hacker/projectsSeriously what will you do with code? I'll start adding all the code, once I map out all the components. I don't want to miss anything, and I want to up front on hw requirements. While the 'miner' GPU stuff is a fools errand, actually building the bloom-filter, and blockchain-database scrubbing all the 300M addresses, and maintaing memory-pools to update the blf every 10 minutes is critical. My feeling is that the process ( the idea of it all ) is more important than the implementation. Once people see the entire picture, then I'm sure some 18yr old high-school kid can by reduction reduce it all to your bathroom 'time to understand' criteria. Lot's of people already have some of the components I'm discussing, nobody has it all except those of us who 'rolled our own' Once all the source is out there, then the high-school kids can take over. It's easy to 'do something',when somebody else hands it to you on a plate. You must understand the components, before you can understand the 'system', So many of these components I haven't touched for years I need to go back and find all the source, and remember why it was useful. Lots of this stuff once its done, its done forever, but if you don't have it, you have nothing. Like they said "If it was easy, everybody would be doing it".
Hacking BITCOIN is like the blind-man an the elephant, some people have the leg and say "Can't be done, this tree will never move", very few see the big picture, my goal is to teach the entire ELEPHANT of bitcoin hacking. Before I start releasing code, tell me the order, and ask questions, people ask why these components are required as I will get bored in a few weeks and not return to this place, I only come around here once every 2-3 years. I want to return to my math work on ECDLP. |
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All talk and no examples of anything, getting tired of all this theory talk.
There are dozens of steps & modules in this process, its like cooking gourmet meal for a 1,000 people Your the type of person that wants a GUI, and his hand held going to the bathroom. All my stuff is cmd-line, like any hacking of cryptography its a long and tedious process, I have no intention of automating and black boxxing for morons. I will provide components and explain in detail how to use each component, but I will only do this with people who are not morons. Obviously, if you ain't already got a MS in physics or math, and ain't a python/c++ guru, and if you ain't got 10+ years experience in LINUX, no source on earth is going to help you, nobody helped me get this stuff going I did it on my own, and if smart people want to take this to the next step, that's good with me. If you didn't spend 20+ years as a sw developer doing networking, os, graphics, device-drivers, .. then you aint' going to get any of this ever. What moron 'talk' the entire thing is to teach people to think the right way about hacking bitcoin. GARWIN had a great quote "The hardest thing about dropping a-bomb was that once it was dropped they couldn't deny it existed", same here once everybody know's how easy it is to hack bitcoin, then the mythology is game-over.Garwin was the presidents advisor on atomic physics for 50+ years, he's probably dead now. Theory is way more interesting to me than 'code', you say your tired of 'thinking' you must be a first class un-educated fool. Why are you even posting? Don't you have a computer game to play? |
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I didn't say SSD, I said NVME-4x m.2 next to the CPU, are you retarded?
You also said this in the OP: For the record the rtx-3070 was doing 1,000MH/sec, but I was just running the bloom-filter off of an SSD, but it was shared [to be clear I'm not attacking you, I'm just trying to figure out how your method works.] If you actually every wrote any cuda source code you know the allocation size, its documented, but you cannot for instance get 8gb contiguous on a 12 gb gpu card, its a limitation of the architecture of that card family your using
OK it makes sense that you can't have it all contiguous. I have tweaked some CUDA in the past but never wrote entire programs out of it, so I haven't paid attention to cuda memory limits. Nice to know this stuff can be offloaded from the GPU I'm going to start setting up the new github today, I'll provide you a link once there is enough there to start, I have been working on this for five years, its done, and I have moved on. I in the recent year I work on the second thing above actually calculating the private key from public key explicitly. This GPU stuff is just random, you know, but at 9,000TH/SEc that 100's of bitmain s19, doing the same work on one graphic card. Like I said the lowest thing is this stuff, all this stuff bitcoin-tech is just looping around checking one address at time, there are as many addresses as electrons in the universe, obviously looking for that electron that way is DUMB, which is why the tech bitcoin talk people let that garbage remain, everytime I post stuff they delete it, last time i did a github 3 years ago, I posted ML-RNN how to calc an address to private-key they locked it; They don't want anybody to move forward its all 'woke' here on bitcoin-talk the old guys just want to keep it like it was in 2009 forever. Like I'm saying I'm more interested in the ECDLP problem, and backdoors using endomorphisms to directly map public to private. Given the majority of all addresses are now hashed, this GPU miner method is the only way to do this, it must be random, because the sha256 is random, but you can be clever like I have done, and it does find high-value addresses, it works. I don't care about money, I do this stuff for fun I'm only here to show people the light, the path. Given I have already spent ten years hacking btc, I have gone down many blind paths, if anybody wants has a question, please ask, I have no reason to hold anything back. I have said many times, the btc-dev deserve to see their baby die, they have sat on their arse for years and done nothing to make BTC stronger. Satoshi knew that BTC using sha256(NSA) & secp256k1(NSA) had a ten year limited lifetime, dev didn't move forward they deserve to lose it all. |
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But its green dude  |
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All talk and no examples of anything, getting tired of all this theory talk.
You can lead a moron to water, but you can't make them drink, funny how this works. I see I triggered you real good, you know you spam the same thing over and over. You will stop posting for a while and start back. You do it every time. What do you want to know? I have already posted python before, and its the same imbeciles that want their hands held, I take a different approach now, I tell you how to do it, and smart people can ask questions if they don't understand what I'm saying. |
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How are you going you deploy your gpus in the future?
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1.) Fall back to the last working plotter chia-pos 1.3, all the software since then is broken
2.) Use linux, and cmd-line only
3.) Don't use any gui tools
4.) don't use any plot managers like 'plotman' they'll kill all your hard work, and reset you to scratch
5.) develop monitors for all NVME iostat, nvme, htop are your friends
6.) never try to run more than 4x plots in parallel on one NVME drive, the controller can't handle it
7.) Watch for the infamous 'mis-match' error in the chai-log for each 'chia create plot' instance, once you get that message, it means that NVME has been destroyed
8.) Watch 'sudo nvme smart-log /dev/nvmeNNN', watch TEMP of controller and 'controller busy count' if either go astro, then kill that plot process before it kills your NVME
I see now that chia-pos is saying they have a new 'killer version' ( 14), since about 1.0 of chia-plot, 'making it faster' has really meant killing NVME's more often, the plot speed is always going to be 6-8 hours, its always best NOT TO KILL YOUR HW. CHIA-DEV doesn't care about you, they only care about the CHIA IPO.
The GUI is unstable, the blockchain code is now terminal, nobody on earth can get chia-net to sync, and if you do, its doesn't stay sync'd for long.
The only thing useful is to use old pre 1.3 plotting software and make plots and then mine on HPOOL.com and make some money today.
Once chia gets the blockchain stable and sync'd ( this could take months, if ever ), then we will see. My fear for now is that the newer plotter software is designed to make it impossible to earn money on HPOOL, so there is a war, don't get involved, hold back to a working version, where the plots are supported in both worlds.
DEV is saying that when their plotting protocol is done, we must destroy all our plots and start over, the chinese now own chia by 70%, they'll not tolerate this bullshit coming from dev. The CHINESE IOU's made the price go to $1600usd, and keep it there, once the chia-dev team trys to screw china out of its hard-work, then chia will implode.
IMHO the future is this, people (US USERS) will clone chia fix the bugs, as its clear this team has no software management experience at delivering a software product to a commercial market. Sure they're all great influencers and marketing guys, but they have never developed software in a real software company.
Chia is a good idea, its too bad that a weak management team destroyed it. It's not the first proof-of-space coin, there will be others, we all can see the problems, so now lets fix them.
Sure BRAM created bit-torrent yaba-yaba, but it took 5+ years to get it rock solid, and he was probably long gone the people that made it rock solid were more than likely dev's in the wild improving open-source.
...
I cannot stress enough, why plot chia if you can't earn XCH? To do this you must use HPOOL.COM, they have a plotter, and a miner, I only use their miner, its rock solid, and they do updates weekly; I don't know about their plotter I don't use it, I don't have to give them my keys, I just sign a their generated public-key, and it proves I own my plots. Right now you can earn a chia every two months, with every 200 plots. If you do as your told and 'solo mine' you will earn ZERO, and then be told to delete your plots once the pool is blessed by god-chia. They're even saying your must POS to join their pool, this of course is all 100% bullshit.
HPOOL.COM is fair & honest company; the guy is western educated and speaks fluent english; its just a normal pool just like ethermine.org, or superpool.io; These guys have years of experience, the chia-team don't know shit about mining-pools, they'll never deliver anything but bugs.
Lastly the question why have for months the talking heads on youtube dissed HPOOL.COM, these are old paid influencers, by you know who. Why the lies? About private-keys, about stealing, about not trusting china? Why?
Why do they do nothing about destroying our NVME drives, why do they not care? ( chia plotting kills my brand new samsung evo 980's at 25% of warranty TBW, that's every two weeks DOA )
Why is chia-dev sw management so blatantly incompetent?
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But surely your joking? Chia is Green
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I am taking profit from this dip in all cryptos as I am mining more per day with my Gpu-s right now.I hope they go even more down and I don't care at all,the only thing I am concerned is to grow my crypto holdings which usually I keep all in Bitcoin,even mined coins I immediately convert to Bitcoin so I will protect it all the way down to zero without a problem as I know it will bounce back to a lot more than it is right now.
Yep GPU mining very good right now, too bad you can't buy them I have my rigs, why would like more RTX's but nada Now the hard-disk stuff is gone as well, with space-mining you have to burnup an NVME to make plots, with GPU's they get dirty you clean them, they get hot you reduce the wattage, easy-peasy But now bitmain comes out with an En ETH ASIC miner, and its all gone in the next few months, all our GPUS will be deployed to hack bitcoin. |
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Fact sheet The longer the longevity Bitcoin has, the higher value it has and the probability that it will fall to zero or dead is nearly zero, impossible. Bitcoin has passed through the first challenging ten years from which it will move strongly. Not necessarily most bubbles like tuplip, missippi, or south-sea all went on 10+ years before final implosion the fact that btc has survived this long means nothing about its future, once its easily hacked, and common knowledge, it can & will drop to zero overnight; Largely mythology keeps the fingers in the dike South-Sea bubble went down, & up many times before the final wipe-out, study 'grand popular delusions' |
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I see this technical board has really gone to zilch, nada anymore
Has all the dev's quit? Moved on, has everybody moved on to crypt 2.0, 3.0 projects? & left the btc dinosaur?
Really got to know, especially the problem here is when you do post real info, the mod's always delete, the fantasy of btc mythology must be protected at all costs, even though only a few bots remain.
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I have been now playing space POC 'capacity' so called hard-disk cryptos for a month now, so far I see mass incompetence, and not much justification for a business model.
I see lots of chinese using it as a lottery vehicle to 'get rich'
Chia seems to be #1, they got 7.2 EB ( billion billion byte ) huge amount of storage, but its all used to hold garbage hashes that are useless to the world, and worse the freckled owner Bram Cohen is calling for them to be deleted an re-plotted as "Portable Plot", insanity
The Chinese who have been now on Chia ( & all the other space coins ) for 6+ months are NOT going to go along with deletion, so I expect to see tons of folks coming out of China that support POC
For now bitcoin you can't solo-mine, gpu mining soon will be kaput on ETH, especially with Bitmain coming out with a ETH miner ; So POC is like one of the only areas left where little people can obtain crypto without $$$
The general movement seems to be "Buy it if you want it, mining is for Amazon(s)"
The entire premise of crypto is largely gone, its only become a giant financial ponzi gambling abstraction.
Say CHIA above its 7.2EB, one plot is 108GB on a HD, to make that file it takes 6-8 hours on a super-computer PC ( 8+ cores ), 64gb ram, and 3+ nvme drives; I burn up a NVME drive every 100 plots, that's how wasteful this process is, now were' told in the future that we must replot, which means I must once again destroy many NVME drives at $200 each.
Green my ARSE
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